The race card gets played yet again...

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lrohnerposted 14 years ago
There was a workplace shooting yesterday not far from me with 9 people killed and several others injured. A guy who worked for a beer distributor was caught on a security camera stealing beer and putting it in his car. He was called in for a disciplinary hearing and asked to resign. After viewing the videotape with management, he took out some guns and started shooting. It's now day two, and everyone (of course) is claiming that he was the victim of racial discrimination in the workplace and that's why he snapped.

IDK if he faced discrimination at work or not, but he never did anything about it vis a vis lodging a grievance or filing a complaint with management or any other legal entity. I just don't understand why so many people refuse to take accountability for their own actions and circumstances and instead toss down that race card to explain it all away.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-na … Shootings/
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Disgusting. If this guy had been any other race the race card would never have been played. Does any thinking rational person really believe this guy snapped because of supposed racism? Or do you think he snapped because he got caught being a thief?
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think he snapped because he was losing his job. He came in to work that day knowing that he was the subject of a disciplinary hearing--his union rep was also there with him. He should have put his tail between his legs and gone home, grateful that they didn't have him arrested. His family and the media should be totally ashamed of themselves, allowing race to take the attention away from those that lost their lives.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh don't get me wrong, I agree totally. When did Dr. King's dream become one of judging a man or woman's actions, for that matter, skin instead of their character? I'm sure he's turning in his grave right now.
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  tobey100posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can't agree with Irohner more. He was losing his job. Race had absolutely nothing to do with his actions. The fact that he was a theif and had been caught at it was!
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  mistwigposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  actually race had alot to do with it. some people think that if they play the race card others will back down.
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  Lifeallstar1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I heard about it as well on the news. He knew he was stealing besides disliked (probably due to stealing but he didn't see it that way). I truly believe it had nothing to do with his race whatsoever. He could have been any race and people are not going to like you if you steal from them. He could have made the drawings himself, who knows. He should have just left if he felt he couldn't file a complaint. Another senseless crime and he was not some bullied kid at school(at least when this occurred). He was given a job and took advantage of it. Lots of people are not liked for many reasons and once they sense that they do something about it, like leave and move on. Not kill others and yourself.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did it ever occur to you that, THE GUY WAS JUST PLAIN NUTS?!!
  We can rationalize and pontificate all we want to in this forum.The guy decided that day, that it was an appropriate time to "do some killing." Whather the race card was played or not makes no difference.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Both factors apparently contributed to his deranged mental state.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Ralph, but that's where we disagree. Race is just being used as an excuse for is actions. Unless you're defending your life or that of another, there is never cause to kill another human being. Neither of those exceptions are present in this case. Another reason the family is playing the race card is because of guilt. If this guy gave any indication that he was going to do something to barbaric, the family should have been the first to know. It could very well be, however, that he gave no sign about what he was going to do, in which case the family, like everyone else, had no idea what was about to go down. In that way I can see the family using the race card as a way to explain either their failure to notice or as an explanation of that man's actions. That still doesn't excuse his behavior.
  
  The fact that this man was a thief and about to lose his job is a much more rational explanation for what he did. As hard as it is for a regular person to get a job, how hard do you think it will be for someone terminated for theft to get a job in this economy? He might have realized this and decided not only to check out, but to take people with him.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Logically, it's not an either/or but rather a "both." Why is is so hard for you to accept the fact that discrimination remains quite common in the workplace and elsewhere in society including HubPages?
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter if discrimination existed in his workplace or else where, that's not a justification for what he did.
  
  By the way there are four other blacks that worked in the same capacity there and there was never any complaints of discrimination filed. In addition, the man was fired from his last job for the same reasons and he also claimed he experienced discrimination there as well. This man had issues and he was a criminal, sadly he is now a murderer too.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He is a DEAD murderer.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "t doesn't matter if discrimination existed in his workplace or else where, that's not a justification for what he did."
  
  Of course discrimination is not a "justification," but perceived discrimination, real or not, could be a cause for someone to snap. Do you think his family members are lying about the fact that the killer believed he was being discriminated against in the workplace? That doesn't make sense.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rather than cause, a better case could be made for justification. Let's face it, the decision to murder is crossing a big dark line. Someone has to use some pretty twisted logic in order to seriously consider, much less actually do, murder someone.
  
  bsscorpio8, it's obvious you don't study nor read much. While there are limitations to book learning, it does make you think and broaden your horizons. You can then take this broader horizon and test it against reality. In this way you get a better idea of how and why the world works the way it does.
  
  By studying scum like this guy, at least the ones who survived, you can get a pretty good idea of how they justify their twisted actions. Once you know that, you can identify the precursors to such twisted justification in yourself and work to eliminate them.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can read, and read, and read, I do know that only the killer knows what drove him to kill. Perhaps you are too gullible, and maybe you BELIEVE everything you read. Maybe?
  
  Do you honestly think that I am going to "know" the world by reading about it? Really? Maybe you need to read LESS, and get out into the real world, and do some deep reflection, or introspection.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This tragic incident is not an example of "playing the race card" as I understand the term. The shooter was obviously deranged. His family members say he believed he was discriminated against in his workplace. This may or may not have been true. Regardless, it sounds to me as if his perception that he was a victim of racial discrimination was probably a factor contributing to his action. This perception may also may have provided him a justification for stealing beer from the company. It's well known that employees who feel they are being screwed by their employer or their boss retaliate in various ways, fortunately short of murderous rampages.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're correct in your line of reasoning Ralph, but that still doesn't make this man any less of a killer. That's what needs to be focused on not whether or not there was racism involved. It's kind of like the way the Daily Kos was trying to implicate Glenn Beck in the case where that guy got into a shootout with cops.
  
  I think we're both making the point that crazy people will use whatever justification they can to rationalize their murderous impulses. Crazy people always have and always will do that. What we must do as reasonable, rational people is not fall into the trap that, whatever rationalization a crazy person uses for their rampage, crazy people are ever justified in their craziness.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What?!!!!
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not surprised you don't get it.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Surprise is the last vestige or the infantile mind.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're the one who doesn't get it LDT.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Crazy people are crazy; when they make justifications, you have to take that into account. Perhaps you are afraid because of this. It is something that we cannot control. You cannot place reason where reason does not exist.The fact that this guy killed some people, and then killed himself may or may not have anything to do with race. I asked, who is playing "the race card"? It is fact, that there are people in this world that WILL kill you, and race may or may not be a factor.
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  His family members may or may not have been lying, there's no way to know nor is there any evidence to support their claim. However, you stated that "perceived" discrimination might have caused him to snap. Well, maybe his perception was all in his own mind and maybe he shared those perceptions with his family, but his "perceptions" were his alone but his actions are more about a criminal with mental issues murdering innocent people, and his color doesn't make any difference, it doesn't change the facts, nor does her deserve any sympathy.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Dead men tell no tales."
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  Lifeallstar1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If a white guy was stealing from them, the same thing would have happened, or asian, or a smurf...he was stealing from them. Who likes a thief? They went out of their way to be 100% sure he was stealing before firing him. They didn't like "him" and "he" happened to be a certain race. Like we all are. I'm not saying there are no racists in the workplace but let's just say they didn't care he was stealing and it was 100% his race, he is still wrong. He should have not lowered himself to their standards but he did. That's if you want to say it was all racial or partially racial. He obviously had other issues or people would still be alive, including himself. Two components here are: 1) he was stealing and 2) he wasn't liked. I would think #2 was because of #1 and not the other way around. You don't steal because someone doesn't like you.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "It doesn't matter if discrimination existed in his workplace or else where, that's not a justification for what he did."
  
  Of course it's not a justification, but it may have been a contributing cause. Justification isn't the same as cause.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah Ralph, I can't recall any black team member. All whites!
  
  Is it your influence?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Could be.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Psychopathy has not yet been rendered passe.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rather than listen to Freud, you should really read up on Abraham Maslow and his Hierarchy of Needs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s … y_of_needs Unlike Freud, Maslow had access to people like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and others who epitomized the opposite of his "self-actuallized" man and fit them in his hierarchy accordingly. This gives us a much clearer picture of what motivates people than Freud's drug induced writings.
  
  No problem, Connecticut has always been, I think, a quite place. I always enjoyed the trips we took then then I lived in Taxachusetts.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not study, nor do I "listen" to Freud. I do know that the mind of a human is so complex, that you can study it and claim to be an expert all you want, there is always going to be that unpredictable wild card thrown in there that dictates: people will kill people, and only THEY know the true reason behind their actions, not Freud, nor any other learned kook.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ...or he snapped because he was mentally ill, which you pretty much have to be if you go on a shooting spree because someone pissed you off.
  
  When people "go postal" sometimes there isn't a rational explanation, since mass-murdering isn't a rational act.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  HE "SNAPPED" BECAUSE HE WAS NUTS!!!!!
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  mistwigposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  its always easier to find an excuse or blame the other person rather than to stand up and say it was your, mine, our fault. the bad part is, the justice systems seems to be taking this as a reasonable justification.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You see? That is the thing about some aspects of human nature; there are some people out here that will just "snap" and kill you when you have done them wrong, whether it was a perceived "wrong", or you really did do them wrong. No amount of morals and "humanity" can stop this. We are a wild and crazy breed.
  
  By the way, the "race card" ain't going anywhere no time soon. Why do people act as though race plays no part in anything? Can somebody say, Pandora's Box?
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  mistwigposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i agree that the"race" card isnt going away any time soon. just as i see that selfish spoiled women who dont get their way are gonna cry rape or sexual harassment, or the spoiled child with all the toys is gonna pick them up and go home when he doesnt get his way. i see the race card as a tool to throw in someones face when someone doesnt get what they want. unfortunately i have had it tossed in my face. i cant say as i had a good response to it. but then the person who did it to me probably wouldnt have a good response ( how DO we spell that word...lol) if i threw a harrassment card in his face.
  it is unfortunate that racism is a part of our lives as is descrimination. adding the " human" element just kinda screws alot of things up.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perception is (their) reality.
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  mistwigposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  perceptions can be changed.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True, though a leopard does not usually change it's spots.
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  mistwigposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  open mindedness is a wonderful thing. learning to be open minded is wonderful. wallking in the other persons shoes, etc.
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  thisisoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think being fired for stealing your companies product has anythign to do with race.
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worldgrandeurposted 14 years ago
This is sick if it's true! We are in the 21st century for God's sake............ That's sick how some people still think this way.
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wildernessposted 14 years ago
My local paper said he put two handguns in his lunchbox and took it to work, along with a shotgun in the car. It would appear that perhaps he stole the beer merely to make an excuse (to him anyway) to start shooting; that he intended to shoot all along. It also said the he had complained of bathroom graffiti of a racial type.

Quite a reaction for a little graffiti he perceived as racial. It's almost as if minor perceived wrongs now days require the highest level of retribution from some people.
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leebertteaposted 14 years ago
Yes there was racism involved but it was the racism of the perpetrator of this heinous act. I understand he called his victims racists before he shot them.
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ledefensetechposted 14 years ago
Heh, I got called a racist because I call some lady an A$$hole for almost ramming me in a fast food drive through because she just had to get in there first. Not my proudest moment, but it is an illustration, I think, of the stupidity of the race debate in this nation.

PS She did screw up the order of the line and got my order while they almost gave me hers. I hope she liked what she got.
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I get called an anti-semite all the time because I don't like people being kept in a huge outdoor prison, and I don't like children being blown to bits like cannon fodder.
  
  stupidity rules!!!!
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kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years ago
Are we defending a killer? I could care less what race and what race card is being used as a prejudice attack. I assume it's coming from very angry people. This is not in agreement, but in understanding.

Race Card is so 1999 already. I hate bigots, oops that was racist, just can't win.

Still hate 'em

cheers
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hate mass murderers....ooooops, that was anti-semitic.
  
  So 1950's.
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
So did the NAACP come to his defense? Do they believe his story?
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ha! Don't know yet. Only time will tell...
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did Obama call the Brewery stupid?
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did Schumer call the killings justified?
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why not...the ADL defends Israel no matter what.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whoosh! What was that from left field?
  
  Somebody blaming the jews again? Even though they're not involved?
  
  Or maybe...just maybe...
  
  Chris, you care to explain?
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You brought the NAACP and Obama into it even though they are not involved...you care to explain?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Considering that the NAACP and Obama was just recently involved in a more recent situation regarding the race issue, I would think the connection was fairly obvious. So there, that's my explanation. So explain why you brought Israel and the ADL into this matter which has nothing to do with them at all?
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because every time I say something negative about Israel's policies, I get called an anti-semite.......
  
  You complain that black people always use the race card....right-wingers always use the anti-semite card.
  
  They condemn what they themselves do.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First, you are the one who brought up the accusations of anti-semitism against you. You seem to equate racism to anti-semitism and I'm not sure what's going on in there.
  
  Second, I didn't complain about anything on this thread, so you just accused me of something that went on in your head.
  
  Look at the OP. It was the murderer who brought up race.
  
  So your accusation that right wingers condemn what they always do is also in your head. Try to separate your issues from the subject at hand. You'll be a lot more effective.
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's the same issue.
  
  Any time a black person says something is racist, certain people always dismiss them by saying: "Oh, they'e just using the race card."
  
  In the same way, any time I say something negative about Israel, it gets dismissed by these same people who say: "Oh, she's just an anti-semite."
  
  Accusing black people of using the race card is a way to shut them up about racism.
  Accusing me of anti-semitism is a way to shut me up about Israel.
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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
"It's now day two, and everyone (of course) is claiming that he was the victim of racial discrimination in the workplace..."

Who is everyone? I have read in the 'liberal media' quotes from family trying to defend the shooter that there was some racial component. BUT the media hasn't fallen for it - in the accounts I have read, they quickly point up that there were NO grieveances with th union for discrimination or harassment. So we have the family, who is upset, making a lame excuse - but it's not gone anywhere.

And you have the right, trying to spin race in this post - where the left has not..
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're obviously not sitting where I am listening to the local news (yes...I don't live far from where this happened) play the 911 call incessantly with the caller saying "it's the black man that's shooting" and calling it possible racism. Nor are you sitting here reading the headlines in the local newspapers questioning whether racism played any part. I haven't turned on the radio, but I'm sure the word "racism" is front and center.
  
  Bottom line, you didn't read my posts. I also pointed out that there were no grievances filed. And as I said over and over, I don't know if race played a part or not and I don't give a darn. I just find it shameful that the media (as of when I started this thread earlier at least) was all over the racism thing and not mentioning the victims at all.
  
  And I also said that it's disgusting that someone would kill 9 people and the family would say that racism caused it. So please tell me again how I'm spinning this?
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NAACP, Obama.......really, you don't see it?
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gee, thanks for pointing that out. Someone did mention both. But what does that have to do with how I responded to Doug's critique of my post?
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They really don't see it. As far as I can tell, no one in authority and no major media figure has suggest that the killings were actually racially motvated - or that the killer was the victim. If callers to talk radio are asking, that's people talking. NOT a conspiracy. The NAACP has not come out in defennse of the killer. Nor has the black caucus.
  
  The family is distraught and maybe looking for something to excuse the inexcusable. But what are we supposed to do - charge the family with inciting racism? They have suffered enough without attacking them and the suffering for the family is not over.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes the suffering of the families of those nine victims aren't over as well.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. I stand corrected for my omission.
  
  One of the victims was the local union steward - I was once a steward and I can identify with that victim - there to do what he could to help the guy who became his killer.
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Paradise7posted 14 years ago
I think most black people would agree, somebody that comes in to the workplace and starts shooting is NOT a good guy...and I think most black people AREN'T the ones singing the racist card song...it's media hype, which is bullsh**, as we all know.
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doitrightnowposted 14 years ago
I like what Morgan Freeman said about solving the racism problem: "Stop talking about it." It's in a clip from 60 Minutes. Google it.
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William R. Wilsonposted 14 years ago
I dont' watch TV or listen to the radio, so maybe that's why I'm missing everyone blaming this on race.

But I will say this: racism, coupled with a mass murder, sure does make for compelling headlines. You know, the kind of headlines that keep people's eyes glued to the screen so they'll see the ads.

There was a racial component, but the fact is he was a murderer who lost his job and went crazy. It happens a lot.

The media's just hyping the race angle to sell ads.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So there is a very simple way to stop all of this. Stop tuning in to the crap reporting and stop buying newspapers that hype this crap. Sooner or later the media will get the picture as their revenues start to fall and advertisers abandon them for lack of interest.
  
  What it's really going to take is a lot of people with personal integrity. It's human nature to want to read or listen to the sleaze out there, look at how big the tabloid industry is. People need to start rejecting that if they want to see real change in how reporting is done.
  
  I see something of a sea change, Will, in how things like race will be reported in the future. People really aren't that stupid and they see how, as evidenced by people like Chris, stories get twisted around and mutilated to favor a particular point of view.
  
  I think what Irohner was talking about was local news, not national. After the Sherrod fiasco, I think the national media is going to tread lightly about any sort of race issue. Which isn't such a bad thing.
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you ledefensetech. You are absolutely correct. Connecticut is a rather sleepy little state, and the newscasters jump on every bandwagon that comes around.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL I saw it on major Russian Internet news portal today
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Figures. We couldn't make the international news just because it's a great little state. It had to be a mass murder. Sheesh.
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
Speaking of "playing the race card":

FLINT -- There's still blood on the pavement and fear along South Saginaw Street. Folks are wary over on Miller Road, too.

In fact, there's concern throughout Genesee County as police search for a knife-wielding man who has attacked 13 men since May, killing five.

Arnold Minor was killed Monday morning on South Saginaw near Barton on Flint's south side in front of Deuces Wild Kustom motorcycle shop. The blood was there Thursday.

"We're just trying to get the word out to our friends and family," said Rashandia Jones, a clerk at Diamond Cleaners, next to the bike shop. "Watch where you're at."

All the victims have been black men, and the attacker is described as a younger white man with a muscular build. The victims have tended to be vulnerable -- some with slighter builds, some older and each walking by himself.

Frank Kellybrew was a man who walked by himself and that's how he died, on Miller Road on his way to his room at the Home Town Inn.

Officials are not assigning any racial motive at this point, but they said there is an apparent pattern. The attacker feigns distress or asks for directions before launching his assault, police said.

Michigan State Police are coordinating a task force.
All of the victims were vulnerable, cops say

Kellybrew wasn't the kind of guy looking for trouble.

"No sir," said John Henson, manager of the Home Town Inn motel. "In fact, if he didn't know you, he'd walk across the street to avoid you. Mainly, he'd drink coffee and come watch TV with me in the office."

Trouble found him, though, on Miller Road on Friday in Flint Township.

Kellybrew, 60, died by himself, but he's not alone.

He and four other men have been stabbed to death in Genesee County since May. Another eight men have survived whirlwind knife attacks. Ten of the assaults have been in Flint and the other three in nearby townships.

"From what I've heard, we're having an epidemic," Henson said.

"We think it's one person doing all of them," said Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton.

It's a battering the region does not need.

Read more: Flint police search for serial slasher | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20100806/N … z0vpjWT0bM

http://www.freep.com/article/20100806/N … al-slasher
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Evan G Rogersposted 14 years ago
...so the guy was stealing beer...

... and he's complaining that he was the victim of racial discrimination?

... sounds like I shouldn't bother listening to this guy AT ALL.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wait - how do we know he was actually stealing beer? Has this been proven? Maybe he really was subject to racism and the stealing beer thing was a baseless accusation to get him fired.
  
  White guys have been shooting up their workplaces about twice a month from what I see in the headlines (i don't watch TV but I do see headlines when I get online).
  
  This black guy is getting doubly condemned - once for being a killer - and there's no doubt that he was, and no defending that - and twice for playing the race card.
  
  The fact is, race was a part of this shooting. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Racial prejudice and white privilege have existed in America since Europeans first came here.
  
  Reap the whirlwind, whitey.
  
  But - like I said earlier, you can't blame it entirely on race. Just another disgruntled worker taking revenge....
  
  Maybe the real problem is that guns are too easy for psychos to get?
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I believe he was caught on camera.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That well makes the beer theft proveable, not much else is.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Since when do we validate an insane persons paranoid justification for killing a bunch of people? Just because he was clearly nuts, does not mean he was stupid. Only a mole down in the dark woudn't be aware that the 'race card' was quite handy to blow up in his own sad mind and make 'use' of to justify his compulsion to shoot a bunch of people.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My point is that if there wasn't a history of racial oppression in this country, he wouldn't have had a race card to pull.
  
  When a white guy goes postal at work we don't talk about how he was being racist.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We might today as it is now a 'mainstream' topic of conversation, that's my point, easy excuse to come to mind to play these days, and a postal worker is just as likely to play it as this fellow, white black or pink, it's just handy.
  
  There is a history of racial oppression in most countries since the beginning of oral history in this world, this continued drive to make the history of the USA somehow unique, and those alive and contributing to our society today somehow responsible, is just nuts.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1. Are you saying that the only reason the shooter thought he was being discriminated against is because Americans like to talk about racism? Are you saying that we should, therefore, not talk about racism in America?
  
  2. It's kind of hard for a white postal worker who kills other white postal workers to claim that he did it because of race.
  
  So what happened in the US is ok, right?
  
  The history of the USA *is* unique. The concept of human races didn't exist before slavery in the new world made it a convenient and profitable belief.
  
  And just because you never owned a slave, or lynched a black man, doesn't mean that you haven't benefited from the fact that you are white.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting, you have attempted, poorly, to take my words, twist them, and make them reflect what you wish them to be. Bravo.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are welcome to clarify what you meant.
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They have several instances of him stealing beer and putting it in his car on warehouse security cameras. Evidently, he was selling it on his own on the side.
  
  To get back to my original post, I don't think anyone is "justifying" his actions by talking about racism--except the shooter himself. He knew exactly what he was doing when he called 911 and used the word "racist." He just figured he was going to go out with a bang (no pun intended.) Instead of the focus being on the victims of the attack, the focus is (or at least was) on possible racism. The stupid news agencies took the bait and at least the initial reports questioned whether racism played a part.
  
  I don't know any racists personally (except my b*stard son-in-law who hates Mexicans, but that's a whole other story), although I'm sure they exist. But I have seen plenty of folks who are incapable of taking accountability and responsibility for their actions, and blame their screw-ups on race or gender--this guy included.
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "This black guy is getting doubly condemned - once for being a killer - and there's no doubt that he was, and no defending that"
  
  So why are you trying to?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where do I defend him? - Oh wait, I forgot. You're the guy who will argue for 5 forum pages about the meaning of one word.
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "The fact is, race was a part of this shooting. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation."
  
  This is the only thing you are correct about.
  
  The black guy killed white people.
  
  As for arguing about the meaning of words, yes I did and I will.
  
  Words mean things and when you try to change the meaning or word to fit your argument I will always argue.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True.
  
  And arguing about semantics is a convenient rhetorical device to avoid arguing about real facts.
  
  So is arguing about what someone's true intentions were in using a certain word. Hard to prove or disprove with certainty, so plenty of time can be spent on it until people have forgotten about the real issue.
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is also true
  
  I didn't do that.
  
  But you on the other hand argued for as long as you could and then wouldn't admit that you tried to change the word.
  
  So I provided proof and let it go.
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Reap the whirlwind, whitey."
  
  Are you serious?
  
  "Maybe the real problem is that guns are too easy for psychos to get?"
  
  And maybe psychos would kill with whatever they get their hands on?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's a little harder to kill eight people with a knife than it is with a gun. Harder to kill one person with a knife, for that matter.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Under the Second Amendment even psychos are entitled to protect themselves according to the gun lobby.
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leebertteaposted 14 years ago
On his 911 call he regretted he wasn't able to kill more people. I also learned he had a long rap sheet that included bank robbery.
This man was lucky to even have a job! I don't see how anyone can claim discrimination, if anything he was given more opportunity then he deserved.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is playing this proverbial "race card" anyway? The guy was a freaking lunatic.
  
  More opportunity than he deserved? Hmmmm.
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Maddie Ruudposted 14 years ago
I am sorely tempted to change the title of this thread to The "race card" card gets played yet again...

I have not heard anyone justify the killings, for any reason. Everyone I have heard talk about it, and everything I have read about it, agrees it was wrong and he was mentally unstable.

The fact that some conservative news sources/blogs are bringing the "race card" into things is absurd. They are the ones bringing it up in the first place.
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  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I felt the exact same feelings last night reading this thread.
  
  on the way home today from work, I stumbled upon a talk show that I didn't realize was Rush Limbaugh.. until his name was mentioned. there is no wonder to me that this subject comes up so often when he is clearly a very prejudiced person spewing his talk to whomever listens. it's nauseating.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well that should show you that racism is thriving in America through the power or the media.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very good point - the "race-card card" has much more weight than the "race card" nowadays, and sometimes it's a fabrication borne of resentment, not of fact.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The "race card" is played nowadays as a distraction.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think the shooter played the race card in his 911 call, so he would be 'first'. Should that part of the tape be edited out for consumption by America?
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You would have to be blind not to see he was trying to justify his actions.
  
  That would be playing the race card.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why should the part of the tape mentioning racism be deleted "for consumption by America?"
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It shouldn't. But, one would assume that the mainstream media did just that as Fox is yet again pointed to as the perpetrator 'first' playing the race card in the post I responded to.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here's what the NYTIMES said in its FIRST report on the killings yesterday.
  
  “This is Omar Thornton, the shooter in Manchester.”
  
  “Yes, where are you sir?” the veteran Connecticut state trooper on the other end of the emergency call responded.
  
  “I’m in the building,” Mr. Thornton said. “Uh, you probably want to know the reason why I shot this place up. This place here is a racist place.”
  
  Seconds later, he added, “I wish I could have gotten more of the people.”
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/06/nyreg … ?_r=1&
  ref=us
  
  The recording, first posted Thursday on the Web site of The Hartford Courant, emerged as Mr. Thornton’s girlfriend and family members have maintained that racial harassment at the workplace pushed him over the edge, charges that officials with the company and the local Teamsters union that represented him have steadfastly denied.
  
  Mr. Thornton had been called into a disciplinary hearing the morning of the shootings and was offered a choice of resigning or being fired, after officials accused him of stealing beer along his delivery route. Moments later, he opened fire.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Goody, maybe the NYT's was the second 'first' to play the race card.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Times and the local paper were just reporting the news.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see you've added more to your original post here.
  
  What I find most interesting in your additional 2 paras is that he was packing a gun to begin with, was that a job requirement?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All employers that I'm aware of ban weapons in the workplace.
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  Lifeallstar1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I saw his girlfriends mother on TV and she stated that the killer told the girlfriend that they didn't like him because of his race and called him the "n" word and that he also brought the girlfriend into the bathroom at the factory warehouse building to show her a drawing on the bathroom wall (which sounds nutty, why would he bring his girlfriend in to show her that) of a man with a rope around the neck or something like that. It was kind of crazy how she was explaining it so not sure if that was the truth.
  
  The news stated he had two guns on him and was using them both. He had them in his lunch box (that's what grabbed my attention at first when i heard guns in a lunch box i thought it was a kid at school type thing) but that's how the guns were brought in because it was too hot for him to hide it on himself since it would be noticed(it has been pretty hot and muggy in CT these days), so i guess he was not allowed to have a gun on him. That's why he hid it. At least that is what was being reported. He drove the truck so maybe it was allowed there for safety but not in the office or warehouse where he brought it in. Not sure, that's just what was reported.
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leebertteaposted 14 years ago
The man, Omar Thornton, in his 911 call declared:
"I Killed the Five Racists"

This story was about race because the perpetrator made it about race and it was reported that way on every single liberal media outlet as well as the conservatibve ones. The difference is the liberal media oultets are trying to use Omars claim of racism as cover for his crimes.
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please, show me evidence of this. I have seen ZERO coverage that attempts to justify the crime for ANY reason.
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! It wasn't too hard to find evidence to support my claim. Here is the first one I looked at. Read the whole think but pay special attention to the final paragraph.
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jessie-da … 73244.html
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That article does not justify the killings. The closest thing I could find was near the end, where they simply state that racism is still very common. But nowhere does it say "the fact that this guy felt discriminated against makes it okay that he killed people."
  
  Racism does exist. That is a fact, like it or not. Just bringing up the fact that it exists does not mean someone is "playing the race card," or using race/racism to justify something else.
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The whole article is biased. It points to his torment by racism, yet there is no evidence to support this claim besides the word of the killer and his family which probably is only repeating what they were told.
  
  The very premise of the article is to lay out how most of these types of killings are carried out by white males and how this one is so unusual.
  
  And here in the final sentence of the article:
  
  "What is all too common in this story is the systemic racism that Thornton reportedly endured and the desperation he felt in how to deal with it."
  
  No they aren't coming right out and saying it but the suggestion is quite clear and simply can't be denied or waved away.
  
  Please don't ban me for pointing this out.
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, pshaw. I have never banned someone for disagreeing with me. I don't plan to start.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, in fact, most of these types of killings are carried out by white males. This one is very unusual.
  
  Your point?
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
"Strange Fruit. Anniversary of a Lynching."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … =129025516
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  Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have questioned the point of this thread from the get go. Apparently lrohner thinks this means something larger about the issue of race in America, although I'm not sure what it is...
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  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, no. As I've said several times in this thread, it just pisses me off royally that the true victims here were (at least at the beginning) getting lost in all of the "race" uproar. No more. No less. If this had been a woman screaming sexual harassment where none existed, I would have felt the same way. So, what's the point of your post?
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you believed that, then why would you start this thread with yet another reference to "the race card" when this was clearly a case of a mentally-ill, violent person?
  
  You seem to be guilty of the exact same thing that's royally pissing you off.
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  Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Funny, I would have thought that the true human tragedy here would have "pisse[d] you off royally" a little more than the issue of race. You brought race into this issue more than the sources you have cited. It seems like your obsession. Stop playing the race card or you might piss yourself off all over again. I am more bothered by the people that died. I guess we just have different things that "piss[] us off royally." Priorities and all that.
  
  I suspect that what you are trying to do is take the example of this mentally-ill person to extrapolate and make the larger point that charges of racism are always unfounded or generally unfounded. But I do not want to speculate...
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  Lifeallstar1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are not understanding what is being said. Irohner is saying that the real tragedy are the humans that have been killed and is pissed off by everyone saying the murder was brought on by racial issues at the work place when people have died. The media should NOT be acting like this person is the only victim. With headlines of murder due to race, or anything else except that this is what happened and look at ALL the victims. Instead of focusing just on the theme of murder due to race. They barely skimmed through the victims.
  
  I live in CT so I've been hearing a lot about it as well and I can totally see Irohner's point. People have died and the focus has been on this one point. The truth is they are probably not giving the media a lot to talk about because they are in the middle of investigating so they are just reporting what they can and speculated with the tidbits from the shooters side and some small facts. Like the guns and speculating about the 911 call. That's why the "race card" was mentioned for this thread since that is all they are reporting and what about the others? The innocent people that weren't stealing but were shot and killed. They lost their life. It's so early with this story so it will change a bunch of times.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As William Wilson said, he's playing the race card card.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So what if it was a white man screaming reverse racism? Or a straight man claiming to have been sexually harassed by gays at work?
  
  Nothing can justify murder. That's pretty simple.
  
  Like Sylvie and livelonger said, it seems like you are the one playing the race card.
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  Lifeallstar1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're right. Nothing can justify murder HOWEVER the media and the shooters family have it so race is what it is about. At least that is how it was spoken about nonstop. I'll put the TV back on and see if they changed what they are saying because it had gotten so annoying when they kept talking over and over again about the little bit they had to go on which was not the issue and they were "playing the race card" when that wasn't fair. The business would have never gone out of their way to investigate the guy the way they did if it was just about race but again, that was the main topic that has been going on and on. The guy had complained to family same way about other jobs. So it was obvious that the total angle shouldn't have been on that. The media and the shooters family, plus the shooter started this angle. We'll have to wait and see what happens but it would have been nice to focus on the victims a bit more, they had just lost their lives, then for their families to have to hear about them as racists. That's the point the two you mentioned did not understand. I guess it's just being spoken about in CT, who knows.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's easier for me to be cynical about it since I don't live in CT. But I really think that the race angle is just a convenient way for the TV stations to attract controversy and sell ads.
  
  These sorts of workplace murders happen all the time nowadays, seems like about twice a month. This one is unique because it has the racial angle, so that's what the media is playing up.
  
  It's not a conspiracy by liberals to blame whitey, it's just the way the media works.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're wasting your time, some people will always put politics and political correctness above humanity and human life.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are assuming that "none existed." I would bet that it racial harassment did exist. It's not an either/or matter. It's likely that he's a deranged thief who was harassed because of his race.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Jeez, nausea rising.......
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why? Because the Killer clearly used black racism, the political hot potatoe topic of the day, a freezing topic as he well knew, as many killers use whatever hot topic of the day helps their paranoid, not stupid, minds justify their sick Deeds, and some Americans clearly wish to give it credence, use it sickly, rather than recognize that a person is sick and reaching and justifying whatever is handy for their killing day, their killing exit from this world.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who really cares if it was "racism"? Who? Who played the card? Who is justifying what? The guy killed some people, period. If anything, I'd be nauseated by that! All of this racism talk is garbage. Even if the guy was a racist, so what? Racists, and racism exists.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The killer played the card, it was handy from the sicko politicoes and sicko accomodating media, and no American should care that he played that card, he killed and was packing and ready to kill, Americans only should care and contemplate that places like this are giving it 'play' as something legit to 'play', rather than recognizing it as the actual handy tool, use, excuse for a paranoid killer. Innocent people are dead, it should be about them, wanton killing. Shameful, the very topic.
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  Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can only barely understand, I think, what you mean. You get the award for the most cryptic posts. But if I understand you, you agree with just about everyone on this forum except the guy that created this thread.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The media "played" the card; the killer held the "card". I would not necessarily say it was a tool for a paranoid killer; maybe he did hate white people, maybe they did express racist sentiments toward him, we do not know, we were not there. Like I said, racism and racist exist; this should be of no surprise to you.
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  Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm...the killer "clearly used black racism." Is "black racism" a word? What does it mean? Why did you feel the need to invent a new word? Just curious.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have often wondered about this myself; racism is racism. You see how the paranoid bulls*+t of the human psyche constantly gets peeled like the layers of an onion?
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William R. Wilsonposted 14 years ago
And Ralph already posted this but I think it's interesting. Why is no attention being given to this in the national media?

http://www.mefeedia.com/news/32285240
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  Lifeallstar1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have done quite a bit of research on serial killers and the majority are white men who are the serial killers (not being racist, it's just a fact in the U.S.) and they kill a certain type of victim usually. They tend to go after certain types for various reasons and keep killing those types, whether it's looks, gender, race, age, and so forth. This type of thing usually hits nationwide when trial begins or when caught. The people who need to be warned should be, but it's still very risky since they feed off the news. It's best not to give them attention, esp nationwide. However, I follow certain topics so it's not new news to me. I've lately been following more stories on missing children, murdered children or abused children which is what I am studying now but the serial killers are so screwed up and the media really needs to be careful not to fuel their fire.The main people that need to know about it, know about it and that's what's important. Don't give anyone nightly attention because it will only make him feel powerful when he's just some sick scum who is still on the loose. Too much attention will put more at risk in the area.
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  Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  William Wilson and Ralph, I strongly believe that the victims of this serial killer are playing the race card. You are complicit in their political correctness. As ledefensetech correctly points out, the black victims of this serial killer put politics and correctness above humanity and human life. The victims of the mentally ill man in CT also put politics and correctness above humanity and human life. The only people that keep the focus where it should be are the hubbers on this forum...we focus on the race card. We are the real victims in all of this. Let's remember that.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A white man stabs 14 black men 5 of whom died and the families of the stabbed men are playing the race card?? Is the fact that the same white man apparently stabbed all of them irrelevant and should not be mentioned? And William and I are complicit. What kind of twisted logic is that? Why would you say that killings motivated by racial issues are not related to "humanity and human life?"
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm guessing from what I've seen of Slyvie's writings that this is ironic Ralph.
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  RunAbstractposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't give a fat sh*t if he WAS discriminated against, or not! The only time it's okay to kill someone is if and when that person is threatening the life of another person. PERIOD!
  Discrimination is here. We can all strive to get rid of it, but how can it possibly be completely eliminated as long as anykind of hate within mankind against other humans exists? We can't.
  This guy killed people. He was caught redhanded STEALING from his workplace. He was asked to quit. So he SHOT PEOPLE!?! Then cried, (boo-hoo), discrimination?
  I ain't buying it!!!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What aren't you buying? Nobody has said that the killings were justified.
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  RunAbstractposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not buying the race card excuse.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks. I'll take a look at her earlier comments.
  
  "Playing the race card" is an expression applied by conservatives to minorities, or others concerned about discrimination, who complain about being discriminated against or mistreated because of their race. As you suggested earlier, use of the term amounts to playing the race card card.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What I can't find in all the outrage about 'playing the race card' is WHO. I think it's possible, based on what I have read, that the family made that suggestion. The union has not been able to suppoort the accusation. Jessie Jackson hasn't said it. The NAACP hasn't said it. As you said Ralph, no one here is making excuses for the murders.
  
  But in all the wounded and outraged comments from wingnuts, I can't get a clear read WHO they are saying has wronged them with the 'race card'. Someone who called in on a local radio show? WOW! That's got to be devastating in an anynamous person says something dumb.
  
  What irritates me is wingnuts trying to stir up racial resentment for no reason - or damn near no reason.
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is a reason for stirring up the racial hatered; it keeps us at odds with one another, thus making it possible to put clandestine operations into full affect.
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  lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly why Fox is doing it!!
  
  The newest one is Beck; after watching a speech by Obama, he says "I have landed on the Planet of the Apes."
  
  Who in their right mind would say something like that? It's such obvious race-baiting---is he an idiot, or just following orders?
  
  Like Palin.
  Like Russshhhhhh.
  Like Klannity.
  Like Breitbart.
  
  The Attack of the Race-Baiters. Universal Pictures...rated stupid.
  
  But watch for the coming attractions........
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What a GRREEAT country we live in ehh? It is all part of the "New World Order". We gloat about all of the progress we have made, and it always goes back to "race". Amazing.
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Well, you had better start. This is the same thing that the Columbine killers said...they were being harrassed and bullied and picked on!

YOU can say it's no reason to kill, but you can't deny it happens.
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
Speaking of "playing the race card," the Flint, Michigan, suspected serial slasher of 20 men 18 of them black, was taken into custody in Atlanta as he was boarding a flight to Tel Aviv. His name has not been released.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38671977/ns … nd_courts/

http://www.freep.com/article/20100812/N … -stabbings

http://detnews.com/article/20100811/MET … al-slasher

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.s … tside.html

I wonder why this bizarre, Jack-the-Ripper case hasn't received much attention beyond Michigan newspapers?
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  bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just another case of the same old diversionary bs.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  18 people stabbed in Flint, Michigan and Virginia by Israeli immigrant. We listen Nancy Grace flog a child and teen murder for a couple of years and this case is ???diversionary b.s.??? The case gets weirder and weirder.
  
  http://www.freep.com/article/20100813/N … er-suspect
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
Dr. Laura plays the race card, card.

"Don't NAACP me!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85mO4CDY … re=related
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  White people should get to play it every once in awhile.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The U.S. has a sorry, ugly nativist history as Joan Walsh points out in the article linked below, in the 19th century Irish immigrants were treated as badly as Mexicans are today, and the Pope was cast in the same light as Osama bin Laden is today.
  
  "Why Catholics Should Thank Anti-Catholic Bigots by Joan Walsh in Salon.
  
  http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_ … 9_7_30_110
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I sure would be unhappy if I lived in the 19th century.
  
  But I don't.
  
  Quit living in the past like its all going to occur again.
  
  Newsflash, it isn't going to happen.
  
  2010, remember?
  reply report
  71
  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look around. It's happening right before your eyes. And you think its great.
  reply report

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