What should you do with drug addicts that rob their own Mothers? That leave their children alone to buy crack? Blow up their wife and child in a Meth lab? Maybe it's happening so often, we no longer think about it. But, people are being hurt and killed daily by drug addicts and their dealers. Should there be some new way to deal with a crime that is so imbedded in our daily lives?
Since you are concerned about family members that are hurt by drug addicts, shouldn't they have a say in any draconian consequences we want to impose on drug addicts? Sure, if we are talking about hurting children or blowing people up severe penalties may be required. But outside of those kinds of exceptions I'm not sure most family members of drug addicts would want them to serve long prison sentences. In terms of actual recovery from addiction whether to drugs or to alcohol, family can also be a significant hindrance to recovery. This is because they enable the addiction but at the same time insert a lot of emotional issues and drama that make recovery more difficult.
Crime born of addiction is not the same as crime born of hate.
Yes, dead is dead. But life is not as black and white as you make it out to be.
People being hurt and killed daily in IRAQ, IRAN, WARS, Evil People, the list is endless.
What are you REALLY driving at!?
Applying the doctrine of Parens Patriae, or parent of the nation, the government can enforce laws to protect the victims of addiction. The State protection should act in two ways: first, protect the victims of drug addiction by the use of police power;second, rehabilitate the drug addicts and ensure that they are properly guided in order to avoid relapse. Idealistic as it may seem, the law states so. However, it takes a lot of effort on the government's side to achieve this. Community effort is also important. There is a saying, ":It takes a village to raise a child". It will also take a nation to stop drug addiction.
It is always worthwhile to have the drug addicts rehabilitated and at the same time, to keep their families safe. While we want the addicts to be understood, cared upon, we must also ensure that their families will not be in danger. That is why, timely rehabilitation is important before the family home is totally damaged. All of them are victims of the wrong habit and must be given the right attention.
Stop helping them, don't give them substitutes etc.. Just lock them up... I don't care about the sob stories and human rights, lock them up and let them out when they are clean with a proper education, somewhere to live and a job, if they use again, lock them up and throw away the key!!!!
That all sounds a little rosy and unrealistic. It can be easier to obtain drugs in some prisons than it is on the streets, many prisoners have severe learning difficulties which have contributed to their situations.
How does a prisoner with no income find somewhere to live? Yet alone a job? Let them out WHEN they have somewhere to live and a job? How is somebody supposed to find a job and a home from prison? And is an ex-convict really employable?
Are you extending this proposal to all drug addicts? Or just those that happen to commit the awful actions stated in the OP? I suspect that drug addicts who rob or are found to be operating a meth lab are already sentenced to prison, so your proposal isn't exactly groundbreaking is it?
If you are extending that to all drug addicts, then you had better start thinking about just how many prisons that would take. You could start with most of Hollywood, a shed load of Politicians, almost every Wall Street trader.
America already has the largest proportion of its citizens in prison in the developed world, 1%, 1 in every 100 of your people is encarcerated, and you would like to extend that figure would you?
Your society is broken, your systems are broken, and your draconian justice system plays a major part in that. Imagine just how much it is costing each 99 of you to lock up the other 1. Spending that money on drug rehabilitation centres, education, effective policing, and improving the general quality of living in your impoverished areas would do much more to stem the causes of crime.
Prison is simply ludicrious for all but the most dangerous of offenders. Just think about what you are doing. Take 1 independant career search engine optimiser. Put him in a compulsory boarding school with 200 other SEO enthusiasts for a year. At the end of that year you have a wiser and more knowledgeable SEO professional.
Put 1 independant career criminal in a compulsary boarding school with 200 other career criminal, and you have a much wiser and more knowledgeable career criminals. America doesn't see this, but it doesn't take a genius.
Well when you put it like that, it sounds completely hopeless. My point is the families of drug addicts that are victimized over and over again, and they do nothing to stop it. People are more afraid of the consequences of acting to rid themselves of addicts, then they are of the addicts and dealers that victimize them. People are being called a "snitch" left and right these days by smart drug dealers and addicts that want the rest of the world to think like "stupid convicts" instead of people with the common sense to protect themselves.
You could become a vigilante? We had vigilantes in my town who went around beating up pimps with baseball bats, there were a group of around 30 of them.
Good on them I say... it stopped when it made the police have more of a presence.
I personally know 2 people who fit in this "drug adict" catagory. Both of them were imprisoned various times. The root of the problem was not that they were drug users. Below that was the fact that they both turned out to be extremely mentally ill. So they darkness took over. they are still, and always have been very good hearted souls. Deep down very good men who believe in God and want to do the right thing, but the voices in their heads confused them, drugs were a coping mechanism that did not work. Infact, it truly made the mental illness worse, but they did not notice because they were too ill to see it.
So, there are those people who need help, not jail. States need to be more responsible in helping the mentally ill. By doing so, they would be helping everyone. I know it is a large area that encompasses a lot of time and money, but it still has got to be addressed and rectified in order to keep good hearted souls like my relative and another very near and dear person to my heart, safe from themselves, and those who do abuse them, as well as all of the rest of us who are falling victim to these mental illnesses that take over our loved ones. We cannot stop loving them, but we can do the very best on our part to stop enabling them and get them help. It comes down to tough love, keeping our faith strong and getting the "system" to do the right thing to help these people.
On this I agree. America is great at creating criminals. Real live example:
Black male 18 arrested for posession with intent. Felony conviction, 2 years of a 6yr sentence served. Can't vote, can't get a reasonable job, in short no means of supporting himself and we wonder why when he returns to a life of crime. Welcome to the "Great Society".
That is the problem.
I have a nephew who has been in and out of jail. They sign him up for programs and he attends faithfully, because he really does want to quit, but the programs are never long enough because "our taxes are too high" and we cannot "waste money" on those programs.
So we waste money putting them in jail. Brilliant country we live in.
Decriminalize the stuff. Throwing addicts in jail is just creating more criminals. While the best we can do as a society is to give support, the only person who can truly make the change is the addict. Some people never will admit they have a problem. My fiance has a friend, for example, who is always getting involved in meth. Whether it's "just being with people" who happen to be stealing anhydrous to getting busted in a home where someone is making meth, she's always around that stuff.
As for the families, well I'm of the opinion that the sooner you cut that person off, the sooner you'll get a resolution to the addiction. Either the addict will hit rock bottom and decide they need to change or they'll hit rock bottom and keep digging. Looking at it from that regard, you're really talking about the parable of the prodigal son. In the end it's up to the addict to change and there really isn't much you or anyone else can do to make that decision for them.
as for children not being taken care of..there is social services or child welfare agencies and groups to protect them...just takes a phone call...and i guess it depends on the resources put into those services...wherever you are.
as for criminal activity...well...that`s complicated as you know...
addicts are sick...some will accept a helping hand; others won`t and never will..dealers are just that...Amsterdam figured it out...not sure where they are at right now with their drug problem...they legalized the hard stuff...and created state housing so that addicts had a roof over their heads, supports available such as the drugs and they were able to function better in society with rehab, availability of drugs, employment etc. rehab if they wanted it....they were able to function better, work etc. because they were able to live a healthier lifestyle as an addict...last time I was in Amsterdam I noticed a huge difference in the no. of addicts on the streets or parks....they just weren`t around...that was about 5 years ago...don`t know what it looks like now.
where I live `close to` - Vancouver, BC....we have one of the worst neighbourhoods in all of NA...in terms of drug abuse...it`s a crazy place...so efforts are now being made through a safe injection site, upstairs is rehab (needs to be further away of course)...but it`s a start...next will be legalization...similar to Amsterdam I hope...when you go through the neighbourhood...it`s just so `over the top`...but we`re trying to make a difference somehow...we`ll get there...it`s a neighbourhood that makes you just want to light a match to it and make it all go away....one day...it`ll get better with the efforts going into it now....it`s a start...
btw...my biggest issue is the legal drugs that are prescribed left and right....another topic however...it`s behind closed doors.
...no addicts in my family that I'm aware of...
the org i work with targets people (5 days a week) that put their children at risk because of mental health and addiction problems....put their families at risk etc.; i witness the hurt and turmoil all the time....too much as a matter of fact.
I have a few people in my life that fit as a puzzle piece in the statements that were made. It's sad and pathetic but my Mother is one of them. She gets away with all her devilish deeds by blaming it on her bi-polar and other disorders. I know better the drugs are the biggest issue. Secondly, alcholism is also a big problem.I don't see jail as being the answer they need deep cleaning of the brain and real deep treatment so that they don't have the option of relapsing.When it boils down to it they really need help. I have been thinking about intervention for my Mother. Now, she is involved in a abrusive relationship. I'm not one to judge her but I get to feeling she loves the life she lives more than herself. With God's help everything is possible. I would say, do everything in your power to make sure they get the help they need. And pray that God keeps watch over them and protect them as he has been.
I have a son that is a drug addict. Why can't the states set aside a certain number of prisons since most are filled with drug addicts and turn them into rehabilitation centers for those who commit crimes due to their drug usage. Take 2 or 3 years whatever it takes to ween them off of their particular drug say have one prison for the benzo crowd, one for the meth crowd and one for the opiate crowd. Have the proper medical attention, therapy and then when they are mentally able begin training them to do something so when they come out they can get employment! Make them graduate with honors and feeling good about themselves. Many of these people do not have the finances to go to qualified rehabs, many just need to be shown some love and caring that they do matter. Make the military an option once they are clean. Give them lifeskills to know how to handle money and show they how it is to live responsibly in this country. Stop just locking them away and throwing away the key. I thought this was a civilized nation but it is becoming less and less so.
LDF -- I must go on record as agreeing with you 100%. This is a banner moment in our forums relationship, and I feel it should be celebrated in some way. .
Sylvie, I also agree with you.
Addiction is a FAMILY DISEASE. It's not just the addict who is sick, it's the family around him/her. It affects everyone. And those who do not understand the disease very often do hinder their loved one's recovery.
Prison is not the answer. It is possible to get recovery in prison, but highly unlikely.
If addicts commit crimes they should be "sentenced" to long-term rehab. And I don't mean just drug rehab. I mean rehab that teaches life skills and employment skills. And also addresses underlying mental health issues (the correlation between mental illness and addiction is HUGE).
Anyway, I don't mean to say that families aren't hurt by the addict in their lives. They are. Children are innocent victims and if there isn't someone else in the family to raise them then it's better/safer for them to be taken away by child protective services.
I've met sooo many women addicts (especially young ones) whose kids have been taken away and the only reason they are trying to get clean is to get their kids back. Hard to convince them -- although it's true -- the only person who can get you clean is YOU and if you try to get clean for someone else you are setting yourself up to fail.
Sorry for the long post. A topic I'm pretty passionate about!
See, we can agree on some things. I don't agree that it's a family disease as much as it is the result of poor individual choice. The effects of drug addiction often times include the family and friends of the addict, all you need to do is watch an episode of Intervention to see that.
But it's the individual part that I think is most overlooked when it comes to overcoming addiction. Like you said, MM, most moms who become addicts want to get their kids back and that can be motivation for them to clean up their act. My concern in those situations is simply this: has the mother learned enough about herself and her actions that she'll avoid making those decisions that got her in trouble in the first place.
It may just be my background, but I've seen far too many cases of parents involved with drugs who promise their kids they'll change and they never do. As hard as that is for the parents, it's much worse for the kids.
Even for you Sir, our best weapon against drug addiction and distribution, is, yes, EDUCATION!!!!!!!!!!
bye all, this thread ain't wound tight enough
Prove it. Show me where DARE programs and such decrease the change of drug experimentation and drug abuse. You can't find it. Decades of studies have shown that it's not education that influences whether or not people use drugs, it's the number and strength of personal bonds people have with one another. Strong families, friendships and societal bonds keep people from doing things that are harmful to the individual for the simple fact that you don't want to let people who count on you down.
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Contro … 84521.html
If you can the alternative programs to DARE, you find that the vast majority of them promote bonds between people and social skills.
What should be done about them?
Them are your children's teachers, doctors, shrinks, mothers, fathers, neighbors. pilots, musicians, nurses, teenagers, young teenagers, principles and so on
DRUG ADDICTS are people with a disease, yet you feel hopeless. Sad.
Try helping the problem, should you not know where to start, email me.
Please do not take me as disrespectful. If this disease is not educating people, then how could those, not effected directly possibly understand an animal such as this.
Don't feel hopeless, millions are successfully living in a solution that has arrested usage.
Recovery is always available, just not alone.
only the addict can surrender to entering.
Having shot heroin and cocaine daily for 24 years, now a recovering drug addict, I never once stole from anyone, and that was an over 500.00 a day habit, leading me to crack, loosing everything and finally into recovery.
Yes many have to steal, and if so for example from a parent, there must be consequences. If not, at the parents choice, consequences turn the other way, and no help for the addict.
There are much much bigger things to worry about with addicts. The largest being death. Addiction is a fatal disease if not arrested. Sadly many do not reach recovery because they are dead.
Ah, Kimberly, my favorite Hubber addict in recovery!
Yes, your post is longer. And it contains some excellent points.
Having lived both sides of the disease, I think it's a lot harder to watch someone you love slowly killing themself than being the one doing it. Not that being active in the disease is any picnic, either.
But as you point out, there is a solution.
And those of us who have found our way into it are more than happy to share!
Love ya, GF,
Just had to re post and say how true your point is about who really is hurting, like you I have seen it far too often
The worst, is when you look into a family members eyes and see that pain, even if no bad intentions were driving you, drunk or stoned we hold no intentions or regard for them, unknowingly. Kinda hard to be aware of anything. It;s when we enter recovery, and our head clears, smack!!!!!!!!
At first I think we learn what a true amend is and then about real humility.
Should anyone be reading this, know you are not alone, know you dont have to be, know it gets better and know
my absolute worst day clean is now far better, way better than my best day high
have a safe 24
Once a junkie, always a junkie. Those that quit go back to their stupid ways sooner or later. Not much you can do for them. Cast them out I say.
hi happy man, i wouldn't dare say anything of assuming your age, but can only, with much love share with that i am a daily 24 year heroin and cocaine junkie via needles and have entered into recovery.
I'm frightened now, if what you say is true I best grab a rig, cook it up, flag that vein and keep hitting it, leaving the tie on until i die. being cast away frightens me as I don't want to spend eternity on an island with no access to drugs with other addicts whom are clean also doing nothing but sharing our experience strength and hope with one another. Learning, growing, loving, reaching a deeper level of both spirituality and humility with really crappy coffee.
yo, u, itz me, da jnunnnnkkkiiiiieeeee [sorry got shakes] letz sum up yuz da smilyn man l like dis;
TSM, where I have been, may you never walk, TSM, where I am at, I assume is the same as you, TSM where I am going, I will be going as the most grateful recovering junkie, I promise, that you will ever ever meet again.
With that, do know, my stupid ways baby, would make that handsome smile of yours, sport a grin so big your teeth would be shining.
My heart goes out, as does everyday, for the addict born with out a choice today and to the ones still suffering.
Lastly to you The Smiling Man, 6 days old, if you have been hurt this badly by a junkie or any form from this addictive disease, may you find closure and know you are not alone, and anger can turn to gratitude. Its just awfully strange how our liabilities become our strengths and our strengths can turn into our liabilities
Sorry I frightened you. I'm surprised that you scare so easily. You need to be strong and not let yourself be so easily influenced and frightened by stranger's comments/opinions on internet forums.
You shared your opinion on a public forum and I shared mine. If I ever became a junkie, I wouldn't show my face in public until I was clean. Even if this meant locking myself for a month in a basement with a month's worth of food and water. I wouldn't wait 24 years. But, we're all different, and some of us are stronger than others. You have my sympathies, but don't expect a helping hand.
Don't worry about me straying from the path. I don't walk the path of sheep.
No junkie's ever hurt me because I don't give them the time of day.
Be strong and prove me wrong.
Tough Love, is the only thing that works. Period. Either straighten up of go away. Sounds cruel but it makes them hit rock bottom, then they will see the importance of cleaning up, because they see that you ( the family) will not take the hurt anymore. I know it is complicated and I seem to simplify it too much but this is the only thing that works. Demand that they stop, or get help, meaning drug addiction counseling, etc. Or go away.
Just love them and cope with them and believe that tomorrow will be another day and they might be alive still and we might still help them.
My husband of 17 yrs is addicted to percocet, he left me and filed for divorce in April 2010, he will not even speak to me. My husband seems to be getting preferential treatment in divorce court because he is a lawyer. I know we would not be getting a divorce if it were not for the drugs, I begged my lawyer to disclose in front of the judge my husbands drug problem but she refuses, I just want him to get the help he needs before he kills himself. Any suggestions?
Last count in April he was taking 60 5 mg percocet per day, he may even be on heroin by now.
dfritzz-your post is exactly the story we need to see. I am so very sorry about your husband, but he is in the grips of addiction and not able to comprehend the situation as you do.
I am in recovery from alcohol and meth and crack and almost everything! But here I am now, after 2+ years sober, thankful that I was not shipped off. I made terrible choices, hurt people I love, but have made a decision to alter that horrible path I went down for years.
May I ask why your attorney refuses to disclose this information to the judge? Is it because your husband is a lawyer? He needs help from his law peers, not enabling behavior.
Because she says that he would lose his law license, and wouldn't be able to pay me, well he's not paying anyway. All he does is get high around the clock.
He was even high during court and I feel the judge needs to know this and I do have proof, and so does my attorney.
Also, the reason my husband left me is that I asked him to go to rehab and then I spoke with a probate Judge in New Haven, Ct a friend of my husbands and he didn't want to be bothered with it.
Wow, he's seriously in denial. I really feel for you and your situation.
Stay strong, Dawn, and keep fighting-it sounds like you want to help him, and your marriage.
I'm so sorry to hear of your husband's actions. They sound very typical of someone in the throes of addiction -- self-centered in the extreme.
In a way, getting a divorce may be the best thing for your husband (not for you, alas). On his own, without you there to help him/support him, he will bottom out faster. Without a loving wifethere propping up his life so he can continue to abuse Percocet he will probably head into his disease full bore (boar?). He's only fooling himself. He cannot help but spiral down. Eventually he WILL accept the gift of rehab, but it won't occur until he's desperate enough to see it as the only solution left to him.
It's a shame how people in the criminal justice profession cover for each other -- they are NOT doing anyone any favors by turning the other cheek when it's their fellow cop or lawyer or even judge with the problem!
Oh my husband is not alone he lives with a female addict, so that no one bothers him about his addiction. We have not lived together since january and he was supporting me then he went into detox for one day and left since that time he hates me like it was my fault that he was unable to complete detox and he has not spoken to me since April, except to send nasty emails and texts calling me a pig amongst other things.
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