The truth about the Health Care Bill

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   sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

   I just wanted to clear up the garbage that is being put out about people being forced to buy a government health care plan.  I know this seems to be the center of controversy over health care.
   
   For the record, no one is being forced to buy health care.  What you aren't looking for is the fact that states have the option to opt out of participating in the health care bill.
   
   As shown here in Missouri which is the first state to use the "Opt-Out" clause and nothing has changed.  http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt … 6de56.html
   
   The states that do not 'opt-out' are left with a few choices which include keeping or buying your own insurance but under the premise that no one can be turned down for any reason.
   
   Or participating in the government run plan which also includes tax credits to help pay for it.  This also includes tax credit/breaks for small business to cover their employees etc.
   
   There are some other rules that do apply which are; if they are given the credit to purchase insurance because they don't have it through work, or their employee takes the credit but doesn't insure their workers, they face a fine.

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      Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for bringing that up.
      
      Aside from the states opt-out, no one HAS to buy insurance.
      
      I want to quote Ezra Kline about the Individual Mandate. This will be ineresting for anyone who is interested in the facts.
      
      http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-k … andat.html
      
      "How does the individual mandate work?
      
      So long as legal challenges to the individual mandate are in the news, we might as well be clear about what the mandate is, and how it works.
      
      The individual mandate is a requirement that all individuals who can afford health-care insurance purchase some minimally comprehensive policy. For the purposes of the law, "individuals who can afford health-care insurance" is defined as people for whom the minimum policy will not cost more than 8 percent of their monthly income, and who make more than the poverty line. So if coverage would cost more than 8 percent of your monthly income, or you're making very little, you're not on the hook to buy insurance (and, because of other provisions in the law, you're getting subsidies that make insurance virtually costless anyway).
      
      Most people will never notice the mandate, as they get insurance through their employer and that's good enough for the government. But of those who aren't exempt and aren't insured, the choice will be this: Purchase insurance or pay a small fine. In 2016, the first year the fine is fully in place, it will be $695 a year or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is higher. That makes the mandate progressive.
      
      And what happens if you don't buy insurance and you don't pay the penalty? Well, not much. The law specifically says that no criminal action or liens can be imposed on people who don't pay the fine. If this actually leads to a world in which large numbers of people don't buy insurance and tell the IRS to stuff it, you could see that change. But for now, the penalties are low and the enforcement is non-existent."

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      C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Does opting out remove the tax levy as well?

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      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "The states that do not 'opt-out' are left with a few choices which include keeping or buying your own insurance but under the premise that no one can be turned down for any reason."
      
      I wonder how long it will take the insurance company to go broke?
      
      "no one can be turned down for any reason."
      
      Sounds like the government has found a way to break the backs of private businesses.
      
      Some of you like that don't you?
      
      I'll bet you will really love what comes after the insurance companies are gone.

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      Tim_511posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Constitutionally, it really doesn't matter how nice the mandate might be or even that it might have certain exceptions.  The idea of the federal government mandating that the citizenry purchase anything is a direct violation of the 9th and 10th Amendments.

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         sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, this 'mandate' is administered by states.

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            Tim_511posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            But, the original mandate comes from the federal government.  If each state decided on their own initiative to require insurance, this would be a totally different matter.

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               Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Tim - there is no mandate. There is a tax. If you don't want to buy insurance (even when the federal government is offeing a subsidy if you qualify) - don't buy insurance. You won't go to jail. You will owe $695 or 2.5% of income whichever is higher for the privilge of not buying minimal coverage.
               
               It's your choice. Congress is allowed to levy taxes and that's what this is - a tax you can avoid by getting something you will need (sooner or later) and the government will help you buy if you qualify.
               
               The bill was carefully crafed within the constitutional limits which is why the legal challenges will ultimately fail. There isn't a mandate - there's a tax any smart person will avoid.

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                  Tim_511posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  The government is allowed to levy taxes, true.  However, this is a "tax" in name only - it is a mandate to any honest person (so I understand that the politicians don't get that).  Calling it a "tax" doesn't make it a tax more than calling me a "lion" will make me a lion. 
                  
                  Congress does not have the power granted anywhere in the Constitution to tell me that I have to buy a product or get fined - period.  This is still a direct violation of the 10th Amendment.  Forcing me to buy insurance is not by any stretch of the imagination a "power granted" to the federal government - therefore it is up to the states respectively or to the people.
                  
                  The bill was not crafted to to stay within constitutional limits.  The constitutional issue was completely ignored by the Democrats.

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               sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               But that is exactly how it is.  They states get to decide whether or not they will participate.  It's called "Opt-Out".  You should really read the bill.

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                  Tim_511posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I haven't read the bill in its entirety and, frankly, I don't believe that you have either.  I have read overviews and facts about the bill.  The mandate is there. 
                  
                  If you had read your own link at the top, it says that legal scholars don't believe that Prop C will necessarily change anything legally, but it was a meaningful jab at Obamacare's violation of the 10th Amendment.    The Missouri vote is symbolically important, but legally meaningless at this point if the federal government decides to sue because it conflicts with federal law.

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      fishskinfreak2008posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree.

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   sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

   Thank you for that.  To also note, exceptions to the Health Care mandate also include those with financial hardship and ....drum roll....
   
   RELIGIOUS OBJECTIONS

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3. 0

   sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

   Also people with incomes above 133% of the newly defined poverty level which is 14,404 for single and 29,327 for a family of four who do not have insurance through work, can get coverage through the Exchange...
   
   Just read it here
   
   http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8023-R.pdf

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   Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

   Can I opt out from financially supporting the next invasion of a sovereign nation that gets falsely accused of attacking us?
   
   Only seems fair.

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      C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think so, but I think you can elect someone else. Maybe someone who says he will end the illegal wars in a 120 days....

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   lady_love158posted 14 years ago

   I'm glad someone knows what's in the law because Nancy Pelosi said we had to pass it to find out what's in it.

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   Mighty Momposted 14 years ago

   The insurance companies are not going to go broke. They will actually be collecting premium payments from more people.
   If you haven't tried -- and been DENIED -- obtaining (i.e., PURCHASING) health insurance coverage on your own, you have absolutely no idea how important this bill is.
   Those of you who are lucky enough to still have jobs that still pay for your health insurance -- bully for you. No one is proposing to take that benefit away from you. If you believe that lie you are either stupid or willfully ignorant.
   But... just see how you feel when you lose that job and are literally out on the street. Sure, you can get COBRA for a set period of time. Any clue how much COBRA costs?
   After that, I can guarantee you you'll either be dropped like a hot potato because of pre-existing conditions, or be forced to pay a small fortune for the "privilege" of having health insurance.
   If you're so worried about the poor insurance companies going out of business, perhaps they can strike a deal with the pharmaceutical companies to share the wealth. You know those companies who pay millions of dollars to scare you into asking your doctor about __________ fill in the blank color pill.

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   Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago

   Here's a serious article by Atul Gawande, one of the most thoughtful writers on health care issues, on end of life care which is a major driver of health care costs.
   
   http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 … ct_gawande

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      Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is a great article.

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      sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That was an excellent read and very enlightening.  Thank you.  I hope others will take the time to read it as well.

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         Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         They won't.  They already know that it is unconstitutional, is going to bankrupt the country, that there will be death camps for seniors and that illegal aliens will be getting free care (along with the free food, free cars, free housing and all the other wonderful benefits that are available now). 
         
         Poor working class multi-millionaire corporate executives will have to pay extra with this pinko commie marxist humanist socialist plan and ordinary citizens who speak against it will see gag orders slapped on them by pinko activist judges.
         
         Did you see that lying liberal infested Newsweek rag where they had the nerve to say the U.S of A isn't even in the top ten best countries in the world?  All commies, for sure.
         
         Plus there is that Mosque.  And we all pay too much taxes, especially the wonderful rich folk who have given up so much to try to get us out of this depression which was caused by health care anyway.
         
         I may sound confused, but I trust Fox news and all you need to do us listen to them to know what's right.
         
         I'd rather die than have health care!

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   lady_love158posted 14 years ago

   Free health care is a great idea! So is free everything else, and I don't care who pays for it as long as it isn't me. I have a right to my health, my job, a home, food, clothes and leisure and I fully expect the government to supply me with what are my rights! And I have a right to carry a gun too, just to make sure the government gives me what I am entitled to!

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      wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Lady, you must be a Democrat!  Only the stupid Republitards expect to support themselves. 

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         lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No I can't be a democrat, I carry a gun!

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         PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, quite a few of the Republitards that I know personally are collecting social security and using medicare after working in government jobs that provided them with a nice retirement income.  That doesn't stop them from attending Tea Party rallies, though.  You see, it's those "other" people who are the parasites for wanting the same thing they themselves get.
         
         

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No that's not true.  Republicans en masse are opting out of SS and medicare in accordance with their beliefs.
            
            They also refuse to drive on "socialist" highways and as of 2014 will not go to left-wing hospitals when they get caught in the crossfire of their second amendment solutions.  They will bandage their wounds with American flags, and hope that Adam Smith's invisible hand will magically heal them as it does with all other problems. ?

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               Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               More likely they'll be praying for some heavenly angel to come dress their wounds.
               
               Do angels take BC/BS?

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                  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  The ones they pray to take Flame Cross.

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               sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Then they will cry about how they are not being 'treated' fairly.

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      Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You didn't mention education...
      
      hmmmmm

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         lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Oh! LOL! I'm sure I forgot a whole list of free stuff the government should give me, but that's okay, they know what they are and I hope they implement the necessary change soon, before I get laid off! LOL

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         C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Why would you need one? It appears that Uncle Sugar is going to take care of it all! WOOOO HOOOO.

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