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"Chinese woman forced to abort 8-month-old fetus": Yahoo!

  1. fishskinfreak2008 profile image29
    fishskinfreak2008posted 6 years ago

    Web-site/URL: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_china_for … Nld29tYW4-

    This is just the latest example of someone in CHINA being "forced to" do something. Although this isn't surprising anymore, it is very disturbing and we should strongly condemn the people who did this.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image78
      Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Good ol government tyranny

  2. Flightkeeper profile image72
    Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago

    It's terrible, but someone like Chinaman/Alternate Poet has said on a previous post that it is a policy that America should put in place.

    1. profile image0
      china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      China man said that a one child policy would benefit most nations in keeping the rapidly expanding world population under control.

      Chinese laws prohibit such events as are reported in the Yahoo news - it also forbids abortion past the same time considerations as in most western countries.  These things, along with abandoned babies, were not uncommon at the start of the policy but are currently very rare.  Rural communities often are ignorant, including the local officials, with many illiterate people among the older generations (over 40 or so).

      The one child policy has actually resulted in an average of around 1.8 children per couple - Ethnic minority Chinese are allowed two, in some districts a second child is allowed if the first is a girl, if you have money you can just pay the fine and have as many as you can afford. My friend has a sister who is registered as being her childless aunt's daughter.

      These things happen but most stories such as this one are fabrications and direct lies produced by christian groups interfering in Chinese affairs.  If they used truth, justice and decency they would not be restricted - but they choose lies and deceipt, which should not be any surprise for the behaviour of this dying, slightly ridiculous, ideology.

      1. Flightkeeper profile image72
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Still shilling for the communists huh?  This came from the Associated Press, as you can see if you bothered to check the link.  They corroborated it and it's true not a fabrication as you claim

        Regarding your earlier post this is what you said.

        "I have no problem living in a country where a foetus is a foetus and treated as such - I have no problem with abortion.

        I am also happy to support the one child policy here - that you know absolutely nothing about apparently - I would recommend it for other countries also - especially America."

        So I'm not far off, you don't have a problem with what happened to this woman.  Why am I not surprised.

        1. profile image0
          china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          OHHHHHHHHHHHH  !!  THAT is who you are big_smile big_smile big_smile

          As you can find throughout these pages I do not shill for Communism, and I am equally critical of Capitalism.

          I am only living here among all my Chinese friends of all classes - I guess you would know more about China cos you got Youtube big_smile

          I have no problem with abortion, why should I have any problem iwth a perfectly legal procedure that is 'normal' in the eyes of everyone except a minority group of lying, pathetic loud mouths with no concience or care for women.

          I don't have such a problem with this woman becasue the story is unlikely to be true as written - not impossible, but unlikely.

          And one child policy for America - good idea I would say.

          1. Flightkeeper profile image72
            Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            That's right what happened to that woman didn't happen and if it did her abortion was a perfectly legal procedure and normal except to loudmouths who don't care about women.  Care to look at the mirror?

            1. profile image0
              china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              How are you TK / Sad Oh  !   long time no bull from you, I would say I missed you but . . .

              1. Flightkeeper profile image72
                Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You think I'm TK?!!! lol lol lol

          2. Sab Oh profile image58
            Sab Ohposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            "And one child policy for America - good idea I would say."


            That makes absolutely no sense. Population growth is a non-issue globally, especially in the developed world.

          3. Ralph Deeds profile image69
            Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Here's a comment I made on another forum a while back.

            1957
            written by Ralph Deeds, January 15, 2010
            There's an interesting article in the January-February Atlantic by James Fallows who recently spent a couple of years in China. He is optimistic about the future of the U.S. vis-a-vis China for several reasons. He said he met a lot of expatriates from the United States and Europe in China, but almost none who planned to immigrate and stay permanently there. Almost all were there temporarily for specific business or other purposes. In contrast, Fallows pointed to the fact that one-quarter of the members of the National Academy of Sciences were born abroad, an indication that America, much more than China and most other countries, still attracts many of the best and the brightest immigrants from around the world. Here's a link to the article http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/201001/american-dec Unfortunately, to access it I think you have to be an Atlantic subscriber.

    2. schoolgirlforreal profile image72
      schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I have a "friend" who thinks that disabled people, and elderly, etc should be killed - like a Nazi.

  3. Greek One profile image77
    Greek Oneposted 6 years ago

    You always get the government you (don't) vote for

    http://www.questionsleep.com/mindspill/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mao01jpg.jpeg

  4. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Population of china is :1,324,655,000+(as per 2008) growing. Unless government stops people from multiplying there is no way country can manage resources for their countrymen. Why blame government if people don't stop after 8, 10 or 12th child ? and still expect medical/educational allowance from govt ? I think after 2nd child if there is any extra child then there should be 10% additional tax on couple.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image72
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There are ways that the government can discourage people from having more than one child, as you have suggested.  What people object to is the way this woman was hauled out of her house kicking and screaming and then against her will, injected with something to kill her baby.  That does not disturb you?

      1. skyfire profile image71
        skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That does disturbs me.

        But i have to see the two sides of the coin. I know the effects of overpopulation and how it'll affect that country. These kids if not raised well are likely to get into crime world and we can't do anything after that. Poverty, crime and many other problems can't be solved if the population is not under control of government. So there is no point in blaming the government if citizens are going berserk in all worst cases. Overpopulation can also lead to anarchy in that country which i guess these people can't afford getting into so they're being strict like this.

        1. Flightkeeper profile image72
          Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I don't see any reason to excuse this inhuman treatment.  That family only had the one child already, this would have been their second.  I can also easily argue that if the child was raised right, might have found the cure for cancer or some other noble accomplishment.

          1. skyfire profile image71
            skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree on that inhuman treatment part.

    2. Aya Katz profile image88
      Aya Katzposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well, you see, that is one of the problems of having a medical/educational allowance from the government in the first place. When people are responsible for their own children, they make wise choices about when to stop having children, and it's nobody else's business how many they choose to have.

      1. profile image0
        china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If only that was true!    In the good old days poor people had more kids than they could afford - I am one of 8 and my old man was a gardener on a breath more than nothing.  Common situation back then.

        1. Aya Katz profile image88
          Aya Katzposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Was contraception readily available and not against your parents' religion?

          1. profile image0
            china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            That is nothing to do with it - the issue is that being poor increases family size - well known fact.

            1. Aya Katz profile image88
              Aya Katzposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              How does being poor automatically increase family size?

              Contrariwise, I would think that having a larger number of dependent children than one can easily support would tend to lead to poverty.

            2. Aya Katz profile image88
              Aya Katzposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Does this just magically happen or is there a mechanism at work?

              In hunter gatherer societies, birthrate is closely tied to food supply, because when women are too thin, they don't ovulate.

              In a rural agricultural community, needing children to help on the farm is a factor. In this case, having children makes economic sense, but when they grow up, they may not have anywhere to go, because you run out of farmland.

              In urban areas, if there is no welfare, then there is a disincentive to having children, because they are not helpful economically.

              These are the kinds of factors I am asking about.

              1. profile image0
                china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You are right about all of these categories I believe.  I would expect the mechanism to be about our primary hard drive - to replace ourselves, to which eating comes second.  In simple societies where kids die easy families have more kids - in more complex (or more screwed up) societies this is interfered with by the threat of losing kids coupled with a higher survival rate.  Like at the point in the Industrial Revolution when the rich realised they were going to run out of workers and so made medicine more available, affordable, which spawned the current industry.

          2. Dave Barnett profile image55
            Dave Barnettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Uhhh, at 8 mos. that's a baby, and at that point, totally capable, under normal circumstances, of surviving outside the womb. Take this story w/ a grain of salt.

  5. prettydarkhorse profile image63
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    That baby is already viable if it is born even if it is not in full term yet. That is blatantly killing!
    I thought that they are relaxing their 1 child policy, one thing to consider is that since Chinese people are generally son preference society, the result of ultrasound counts a lot if the baby is going to be aborted or not.

  6. Anesidora profile image65
    Anesidoraposted 6 years ago

    First I agree that this is a horrifying experience from our perspective.

    That said, every other species in the world is kept under population control measures when called for.

    1. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Humans aren't like "every other species".....just so ya know.

      1. skyfire profile image71
        skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        When it comes to resources on this planet and population explosion, humans are just another species.

        1. starme77 profile image87
          starme77posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          yup sad but true

        2. profile image0
          Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          To whom are we just another species?  Humans have the ability to reason and think,  like how to replant and restore some of our natural resources, and other myriad ways that show our distinction from the animal species.

          1. skyfire profile image71
            skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            When it comes to perishable energy sources, nature and plenty of other things humans can't restore it at all(take example of oil, natural gas etc). Logic and reason of human is yet to reach level where it can bring back everything that this planet lost because of species called humans. Unlike many other species we don't perform our duties to keep this planet clean and so..making distinction is not going to help this planet.

            1. profile image0
              Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I don't understand why people worry about this.
              By the time there's no planet left, there will be no people left either.   God's got His plan, and no amount of loving the mythical "Mother Earth" will stop His plan.   God created this planet, and in due time it will "melt with fervent heat", according to His word.

              1. Anesidora profile image65
                Anesidoraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Um... the earth is actually pretty damned real. Nothing mythical about the earth being our ultimate nourisher.

                That whole god thing, on the other hand...


                Still, whatever, either way, I would still like to know what makes human life so much more valued in the eyes of folks like you than the lives of all the other species.

                1. Flightkeeper profile image72
                  Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Well if that's the case, what are you doing in front of a computer?  Shouldn't you be out in the jungle, giving the animals an equal chance to hunt you down for food?  There would then be more oxygen for them and you'd be emitting less carbon dioxide.

                  1. Anesidora profile image65
                    Anesidoraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Is that your idea of an answer to my question? Or in any way a relevent contribution to the topic?

                    My time is valuable. Feel free to let me know when you got something to say worth addressing.

                2. habee profile image90
                  habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  So you don't think human life is more valuable than the lives of other species? If you had to choose between saving your own personal pet or a niece or nephew, you'd save your pet? I'm just trying to understand your philosophy.

                  1. Anesidora profile image65
                    Anesidoraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi Habee. Have been sending good thoughts you and your husband's way. COPD is a tough thing to deal with. Wishing you guys the best there.

                    Innately more valuable, no, I don't set humans above the rest. Actually pretty undecided if in fact we might not be the worst of the bunch.

                    However, yes, of course I value human lives over the lives of other animals, but I also acknowledge that that is just my personal preference as a human myself.

                    I see nothing, however, that makes the lives of humans innately more important than the lives of animals, other than that fact of our own personal preference.

                    No of course I would save my niece, nepphew or other loved one before attempting to save even a favorite pet, but to be honest I'd be hard-pressed to do the same for a stranger, I'd guess, unless it was like a helpless child or something.

              2. skyfire profile image71
                skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                oh please not that god and mother earth crap again. I don't want this planet run out of fuel because NASCAR/F1 wasting it just because some people think jesus going to reincarnate and act as plumber to pump up some fuel out of mother earth. Let's get real. You have no idea how the fuel on this planet formed and how important it is.

          2. Anesidora profile image65
            Anesidoraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Humans also use far more resources and destroy far more resources than all other species of earth combined.

            1. Flightkeeper profile image72
              Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If you were to be reincarnated, do you want to come back as a killer virus?

      2. Anesidora profile image65
        Anesidoraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Why not? Second time today in these forums I have been told that. Totally confused.

        What is it about humans that make their lives so much more valuable than the lives of animals?

        Please explain?

    2. Aya Katz profile image88
      Aya Katzposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      By whom?

  7. habee profile image90
    habeeposted 6 years ago

    I don't understand China. I have a friend who has adopted two kids from Asia - one from China and one from Cambodia. She keeps up with Chinese adoptions and said the nation has all but completely closed down out-of-country adoptions. Why? If they have more kids than they can feed, why not let them go to other countries with foreign parents who can care for them?

    1. profile image0
      china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No - they don't have more kids than they can feed - the internal rate of adoption has reached the number of kids available.

      There is also the issue of the country now being finacially able to deal with these things, I guess it won't be too long before rich Chinese couples are adopting unwanted trailer trash babies if they are blond and blue eyed ?

      Development means exactly that - China is developing in many more ways than just toward becoming the number one economy in the world.  Orphans and adoption is old news now, as I comment above - the next issues to deal with are the disabled kids, both physically and mentally - and attitudes to this are changing as fast as the economy.

      1. habee profile image90
        habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Then that's great news! Glad to hear it! Plus, I have no problem with unwanted American kids going to foreign parents who can take care of them. Parental love is blind to color and ethnicity, in my opinion.

        1. profile image0
          china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You are right of course, one of the Asian child adoption issues is the cute kids getting 'taken', this has obvious issues - if as many people adopted ugly kids from other less well developed countries . . .

          1. habee profile image90
            habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            When my friend adopted a baby girl from China, she didn't get to choose. Madison has grown up into a beautiful, sweet, very intelligent girl, however. My pal was telling me about one nation that does foreign adoptions - maybe Ukraine? - where two kids are brought out to prospective parents and they pick the one they want. Ugh. I don't think I could choose - I'd end up taking both!

          2. Aya Katz profile image88
            Aya Katzposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They're all cute! There isn't a baby born who isn't cute.

  8. Onusonus profile image86
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    Keep having more children, have as many as you can. There are plenty of resources in the world. Adopt a Chinese baby, you can afford it. I'm the soul provider for a family of six. It doesn't take as much money to raise a child as they are letting on. Make a little sacrifice, trade in some of your extra comforts to prepetuate the Human race. It's not a bad thing, socioty just wants you to think it is because on the whole they are greedy. Abortion is not worth it, the adoption process is what's screwed up, not the ammount of people in the system. There are many couples who wish to adopt a baby but can't because of the screwed up system. Do not give in to the notion that you need more toys for yourself, your toys will loose their sparkle, they will rust or be eaten by moths. Nothing is more precious than a family.

    1. PaulaHenry1 profile image68
      PaulaHenry1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Who was that in America that was trying to come up with birth control he could contaminate our waters with?

  9. profile image0
    china manposted 6 years ago

    Thanks for the stereophonic twaddle TK.

    1. Jim Hunter profile image60
      Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Twaddle?

      Don't step into a puddle of waddle.

      1. Flightkeeper profile image72
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It's too bad we can't post at the same time and really confuse him. lol lol

        Gotta turn in myself.  See you later Jim.

        1. Jim Hunter profile image60
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think his alternate personalities have him befuddled enough.

          Whats a twaddle, will antibiotics get rid of it?

        2. Jim Hunter profile image60
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Take care.

  10. Diane Inside profile image81
    Diane Insideposted 6 years ago

    This is sick, and outright murder.

  11. lovemychris profile image81
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    It's just as tyrannical to force a woman to carry a baby to term.
    Ever given birth?
    Been through labor?
    Ever thought about giving a baby away??
    Get off your high horses...you anti-abortionists are just the same.

    You want to force your will on me, and take away my freedom.
    On something that is none of your business.
    It's the other side of the same coin.

  12. pisean282311 profile image52
    pisean282311posted 6 years ago

    I strongly support one child policy and would like to see that getting implemented in my country. What so ever religion says , it doesnot come to feed people at end of the day...

    Having said that I dont approve the way this case was handled. This is not right way to implement policy...

  13. profile image0
    china manposted 6 years ago

    I would just remind people that this is still not any kind of proven case, it is an allegation and the truth may well turn out to be a different issue.

  14. prettydarkhorse profile image63
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    They said in the news that this is going to be relaxed in some places in China next year and Beijing will follow suit 2012..If that is the case it is a good news. Having taught demography - population studies, I think that due to the 1 child policy -- the net reproductive rate ( the rate that a population will replenish itself due to the birth of a girl who will replace her mom to reproduce) is imbalance after three decades of implementing it,  more males are born. This will cause a difference later on in terms of the need for added "labor force" as the people will start to age and the labor force (15-64 years old) is depleted in the long run. This is also the reason why they are relaxing  the policy.

    1. profile image0
      china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The imbalance is now - school numbers have already peaked and are set to decline now - it is becoming a concern for the thousands and thousands of Universities for the next decade.

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image63
        prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So it is a smart move for China to relax the policy, thanks for that information Chinaman...I say that not only China has son preference almost all countries in the world has son preference too. IMHO, the shift in the sex ratio at birth (more males are born against female because they tend to abort it if they found out that it is a female first born) will affect age old care and labor shifts in the long run. And added to that the problem of aging population is almost the same as the problem in increased fertility rate. I don't know which one is more difficult to take care, aging pop or babies in terms of health care -- money needed for the age old care or the schooling needs of a younger population.
        Shifts in birth rate for example like in some European countries (negative birh rates like in France) put a lot of problems on social security, home for the aged, rise in pension, old age care, retirement age and labor force supply etc..

        1. habee profile image90
          habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          When my pal went to Cambodia to adopt, there were way more boys than girls available. She was told that Camobodians prefer girls because it's the girls who take care of the parents when they get old. Anyone know if this is true? Is there another reason why there are/were so many more boys up for adoption in Cambodia?

          1. prettydarkhorse profile image63
            prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi habee, Cambodias Total fertility Rate (TFR) is still high comparing to other Southeast Asian countries. So if they can spare one male child, their family is till relatively big. In particular the war in Cambodia (Khmer Rouge) affected the population socially, life is hard. And it is true in some underdeveloped countries female born are seen as an investment for parents i.e, old age support
            Unlike what they have in China is that when confronted with the option of an only child, they will choose a son over a daughter.

  15. Aficionada profile image91
    Aficionadaposted 6 years ago

    I'm just now catching up to speed with this thread, and I have a lot of questions.  First:



    I really struggle with Anesidora's constant or frequent references to a first trimester abortion, when the news story was about a late third trimester forced abortion.  Is the 1st trimester reference related to a different thread (therefore off-topic)?

  16. Aficionada profile image91
    Aficionadaposted 6 years ago

    Government enforcement is one thing, but murdering a viable third trimester fetus is an entirely different subject!

    I will accept CM's assertions that the actual story may be different from the way it was reported in the news.  At this point, I/we are commenting on what we have heard from the AP story.  Until we hear reliable reports to the contrary, that is what we are commenting on.

  17. Aficionada profile image91
    Aficionadaposted 6 years ago

    Ignorant indeed, if it took them eight months to notice the woman's pregnancy and to "enforce" the government policy.

    Having given birth to four (NB, lovemychris), I am aware that a first pregnancy is easier to hide than later ones, and a second one (in this reported case) is probably easier to hide than subsequent ones.  But eight months really is extreme.

  18. Aficionada profile image91
    Aficionadaposted 6 years ago

    Tell that to the people that my church gave money for food last week; tell that to the people who regularly eat at another church's community-wide soup kitchen type meals; tell that to the ones who get free food from yet another church's food pantry on a regular basis.  I can't begin to tell you of all the people that I know of who have been fed by the religious groups that I know of personally.  And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

    1. habee profile image90
      habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yep, I have to agree with this. Local churches here fund and operate soup kitchens, a homeless shelter, and food banks.

  19. Aficionada profile image91
    Aficionadaposted 6 years ago

    It is good here to see a comment from the demographic perspective. 

    One concern I have about highly male populations comes from the fact that I have read that the Taliban originally grew up in areas where there was a high percentage of orphaned men - few or no women, lots of men.

    Then, too, there have been studies of brain development that show that in the late teens a man's brain is undergoing some changes that make him highly unstable.  That is the age when young men drivers have many automobile accidents and it is also the age (continuing into/through the twenties) when there is more criminal behavior among men. 

    Since the things I have heard/read have been in the popular press, I would be interested in hearing from people who have participated in more scholarly study of demography about the relation between gender-concentration and social (or anti-social) behavior.

    PS - Thanks, Habee! ... I've been thinking about y'all, and hoping there have been some improvements.

    1. prettydarkhorse profile image63
      prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The predisposition to risky behaviors (teens) and aggressiveness are a factor of socio-cultural and psychological factors. Plus you need to factor in the genetic make up of the individual.
      Up to what percent does each factor affect the individual is a gray area, nor there is a debate whether we can really approximate to raise a criminal.

      Societal factors like religion or no religion, economic status, family (upbringing, values) and the expectation of the society (men are more aggressive)  are very important in the determination of human behavior.

  20. bojanglesk8 profile image59
    bojanglesk8posted 6 years ago

    Crazy.

  21. brianzen profile image62
    brianzenposted 6 years ago

    Not really a nice thing to force someone to do, but maybe if they tried nagging for 7 months first and she didn't get the hint. (could she have moved?)

  22. rameshbashyam profile image61
    rameshbashyamposted 6 years ago

    China is a non-tolerant country. Aborting a child (don't bring religion) is itself wrong. No one has the right to take away a life. Aborting a 8 month foetus puts the life of the mother under severe threat. What about the psychological aspect. China can work only as a bully. They cannot accept the other side's viewpoint.

    Hope the mother recovers. May the soul of the unborn baby rest in peace.

 
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