Guy Benson Groan:
The principal of a public school in Brookline, Mass., is asking parents to fill out permission slips before their children
can participate in a weekly recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance.
Gerardo Martinez, the principal of The Devotion School, informed parents that the school would begin reciting the pledge in January over the public address system.
Attached to the letter was a form that asked parents to check either: "Yes, my child will participate in the weekly Pledge of Allegiance" or "No, my child will not participate in the weekly Pledge of Allegiance."
"I urge you to have a conversation as a family to help your children understand why I will be reciting the Pledge of Allegiance and to support them in feeling comfortable and confident in the decision on whether or not to participate," Martinez wrote in the letter.
The school also sent parents a copy of the Pledge of Allegiance along with a note that defined the words "under God" as meaning "there is one Supreme entity for every citizen."
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/GuyBenson/ … ite_pledge
Weekly recitation? I remember saying the pledge everyday in school. If you are a US citizen, and don't want to pledge allegiance to this country, then leave it. If you are not a US citizen, and are in a US public school, and don't want to pledge allegiance to this country, then leave it.
Screw freedom! Right?
Free speech? Whatever! This is America, not freedom land!
Now pledge your allegiance to your overlords you worthless swine! Sound about right?
Way to mock America. Another person who is free to leave whenever they like. North, East, South, or West. I also ask you, what have you done to secure your and others freedom? Oh, excuse me, you're from the UK. Your opinion doesn't matter to me on this issue.
Nazi's used to recite a pledge. I believe North Korea does the same thing. It seems to be working well for them.
It seems to have worked well for us also. The only ones who don't want to do it it are the ones who have no respect for their country. the difference between those countries and ours, is that your free to leave. Your not leaving Nazi Germany or North Korea dude.
"You're" not "your". Maybe your elementary school spent too much time on political indoctrination and not enough on word usage.
Aren't you one of those uber patriots who believes English should be the national language? If so, it is YOUR duty to learn it and use it....
or you could just move to another country.
Oh my one your vs you're and it's all over for FREEDOM. But alas you are correct, there is no excuse for my misuse of you're. I didn't do it intentionally. Oh if only Ron Montgomery would forgive me.
You did it twice. Were you also silently pledging to yourself during math class?
Your obsession with other people's degree of patriotism (as you define it) seems to have affected your education.
Were you home schooled?
I just kept doing it to give you something to complain about. That's usually what you do, complain with no solution's. I attended the school of hard knocks.
I gave you a solution. You can worry less about other people and work on areas in Y-O-U-R life that need improvement.
You can have that advice for free.
I am not worried about anyone. I simply made a statement. It seems since your the one advising you have the concern. Is that the best your going to do? Resort to your vs your? What a joke.
Happy Hollerdays to you to.
So your point is that I shouldn't be overly concerned about what other people say, think, or write.
No, not at all, you have the FREEDOM to be overly concerned about whatever you like. My point is that the difference between your and your is in not even close to disrespecting the people who gave you the freedom to do that. Unless, of course, youve also contributed to that right. Then, I would just respectfully disagree.
Please explain the difference between your and your.
Do you understand the term "irony" ?
Do you see how that relates to this exchange?
I know you don't understand, that's the sad part. I don't need to explain the difference between anything. I already said it was a mistake. I witness the term irony every time you type in a thread.
Peace party people I'm off to spread Holla Day Cheeeer!
LOL You forgot about USSR Ron. The country that started it all
Yes, I have done my best to forget them.
Thanks for reminding me.
You better remember them Ron, cause looks like you guys are going to step into the same shit...
I don't believe in the "slippery slope" theory. There is a proper role for government in our system; participating in the process does not inevitably lead to totalitarianism.
Ayup. I'm old enough to remember it WITHOUT that stupid "under God", which I refused to say. Fortunately our town had a high Jewish population, so aversion to enforced Christianity wasn't seen as all that unusual.
At least you said it. Was your teacher standing in front of your mouth when you said it to make sure you said God?
If it were not for the 60-70% who were Jewish, my refusal might have been noticeable.
We had small classes.
I'm third row down, first on the left
So, you disagree with the whole pledge, or just the part about God?
Combining patriotism with religion is always a bad idea.
I'm fine with a person not wanting to say God in the pledge if they don't believe in God. I still think they should have to say the pledge.
See, I'm not fine with that. Since when is it a good thing to dictate what a person says? A pledge is more important than that, and should be spoken truthfully from each person. Not forced or made mandatory just because.
Exactly, that's why I said I THINK they should. It's a promise to the country. If you don't want to make a promise to this country and you're a citizen, then go find a country you do want to make a promise to.
Sure. Let's also have them promise that they'll never steal, never hurt anyone else, not pollute, follow posted speed limits, always stop at stop signs, and not drink and drive. While we are at it, let's have them promise not to overeat and never be mean or cruel to any living thing.
Wonderful idea. Shouldn't take more than an hour or so daily and it will mean SO much.
Yeah, let's do that, because that's something we've always done.
Definitely with the part about any imaginary gods.
As to the rest, forced displays of patriotism are meaningless. In appropriate circumstances, I have no issues with the pledge as it existed originally. As a daily ritual, I think it is both pointless and a bit frightening.
You are wrong. This country is SUPPOSED to stand for freedom, remember? You seem to want to force indoctrination on them.
Cause when i was a kid, we-had to say the Pledge of Allegiance, AND the Our Father Who Art In Heaven.
Nice little N. Koreans huh?
God and Country.
And--indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all? Oh, I don't think so.
If you don't want to pledge allegiance, then go find another country. Don't insult the men and woman who fought to give you that right. What have you done to secure your and others freedom?
You should be the most patriotic seeing that you've probably had to work the hardest out of anyone to be here.
Not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Can you re-phrase please?
You can find another country also if you don't like it here, and don't want to pledge allegiance.
Your arrogance is appalling to say the least. You rather step on someone's freedom than defend, as I see your actions by your posts.
You certainly need to learn your place in this world and dictating other people should leave America, because they choose to not pledge to the country is absurd.
The one most important about America freedom, which seems to escape your grasp is to NOT infringe upon other people's rights.
I suggest you learn it.
My arrogance? You defend the right not to pay homage to the individuals who have died and continue to die FOR YOUR FREEDOM, and I'm the one considered with self importance. First, get a dictionary, second, get a reality check. I have the freedom to stick my middle finger up at people when they walk by, but I'm not going to because it's disrespectful. I have the freedom to say mean things to people, but I'm not going to because it's disrespectful. We all have the FREEDOM to do a lot of things, but it doesn't mean we should, because they are disrespectful. It's not about what you can and can not do with freedom. It's about showing a little respect for the FREEDOM that's been GIVEN to you by bloodshed.
Yeah, arrogance. You said leave the country if I don't. It absurd.
It appears you lack vision or just wisdom itself, but you fail to even understand the basics of rights to begin with.
That is YOUR choice. It doesn't matter why you don't. Why you don't is actually irrelevant. Again, it boils down to choice.
Telling someone to leave the country they live isn't disrespectful?
In actuality, there should be no need for governments in the first place. However, that's a different argument and not meant for this forum.
I said YOU CAN find another country.
Yes, I have no infinite wisdom like CAGSIL (arrogance)
Exactly, my choice, just like you have a choice to do the pledge, or not.
I guess it may be depending how you take it.
No, FREEDOM, I even capitalized it for you. It's covered under the first amendment.
Yeah, no Governments, Anarchy. please see the first sentence if you have a different idea for government in the United States.
Someone fought and died so my free will could be taken away?
Huh.. you'd think that would have been in the papers or something. Can you site a source please?
Someone died to give you the freedom to post that on the internet. Freedom of speech. You should show a little respect to those people.
One of the highest acts of patriotism of my lifetime happened in China after the Tieneman Square massacre. The government was rolling tanks to quell any further demonstrations for democracy and ONE man stood in front of a column of tanks and would not let them proceed. It was heroic.
It was not the act of a lemming who bought into the indoctrination - he held to a set of VALUES greater than blind obedience to the state. I'm all for the USA - I served in the Navy. I vote. That doesn't mean the USA can count on my approval or silence when the US is wrong. And I will apply my values when I decide.
There are principles involved here - and you would expel from this country any individual who won't recite some rather silly words - a flag is a piece of cloth that the USSC says I can use for kindling.
I didn't write expel. I wrote that they could go find another country that they want to pledge allegiance to. That's the difference. I realize that there is a right to not say anything, but it's disrespectful not to. It's not as much to do with saying the words, as it is to pay homage and respect to the people who died in order to provide that freedom. It's not about some conspiracy theory indoctrination. It's about saying to the youth, hey man, you know why this flag is there? It's because we are in America and people died for it. They died to put stars on that flag and create this country.
They must be reminded every day?
How amazingly forgettable this lesson must be.
Finally you say something true. Many Native Americans did in fact die as stars were added to the flag.
Congratulations, there may be hope for you yet.
I pledge impertinence
to the flag waving
of the undecided co-conspirators of America
and to the Republicans, which I can't stand
With liberty and justice
for the rich
It sure has been awhile since I have said that particular pledge
Weekly? We had to say it every day during my brief public school career.
I think it makes sense to ask parents, though. Some families have religious objections to swearing pledges.
There is absolutely no reason to get the parents permission for something that has been done for ages.
If the child chooses to not say it, then that is their choice. There is no permission required.
Either say or don't.
At the first glance this certainly looks like a step toward freedom. Though somehow it does not fit into the current trend of reducing freedoms.
Call me paranoid, but a signed slip not permitting a child to say the pledge can later be used to prove the parents are un-patriotic, not loving The Motherland, and therefore being enemies of The Freedom - which provides solid grounds for any kind of corrective action - from community works to imprisonment and execution...
I understand humanism. I do not understand patriotism.
I understand thinking objectively. I do not understand indoctrination.
I understand respect for others. I do not understand coercion.
I understand the line between private choices and public duty. I do not understand when private choices are enforced to be public duty.
But then, that's me. And I wouldn't say a pledge of allegience to any country. Because I don't happen to think that countries are more important than people.
It would seem that 99.999% of people are patriotic to whichever country they are citizens of. They may not always believe in their governments, but they are always patriotic to the country.
Being either forced/asked to recite a pledge every week is kind of non-sensical, and normally comes from those people in power who are insecure of their own power-base, and seek to implant their own version of patriotism in the people.
Birth in a country does not mean you are required to be patriotic to it.
Patriotism should be something that grows in a person. Further, a person can love their country without speaking a single outward pledge throughout their whole lives.
Actions - they ARE in fact, louder than words.
"Brookline school officials now say a permission slip won't be necessary for Devotion School kids to opt out of the Pledge of Allegiance and insist the document sent home earlier this week was only meant to "encourage discussion.""
http://brookline.patch.com/articles/bro … sion-slips
The United States is becoming so watered down that it will cease to exist within 25 years. This is in the name of multiculturalism and individual rights. What's odd is that immigrants coming here -- both legally and illegally -- demand to have their respective cultures honored and "celebrated." So we pledge allegiance to . . . what? Or do we have no allegiance to anything? The future is very scary, indeed. Hopefully the Second Coming won't be too far behind.
So, do you think the children of non-resident aliens who are't citizens or intending to become citizens should say the pledge? Or will we concede there need to be some exceptions?
Personally I come from a country that doesn't have pledges or glue the flag to everything. But if it was invaded I would be willing to die protecting it. Rituals and ceremonies are not the measure of civic commitment.
When one emigrates to a country there is usually assimilation. To not adopt the country's culture and values -- at least to some extent -- is hypocrisy. Same with non-citizen children brought here. If they disagree they should relocate to another country more to their liking. There has to be cohesion among a people. To go our separate ways is to invite liberty and justice for no one. Question: Would you be willing to die for a land mass you don't identify with? Highly unlikely.
I specified *non-resident alien* not immigrant. You do know that other nationalities live here in the US right, sometimes for long periods, sometimes with their kids in school? Hundred of thousands of them.
So having made it really clear what I am asking, do you really think the children of a foreign national (such as a scientist collaborating on a research project) attending school in the US should have to swear allegiance to the US?
And if not does this not suggest that some exceptions need to be made?
Or am I missing the point and you actually think the US should be utter;ly closed to all long term visitors with children, incase they... I don't know, spread funny foreign ideas like the virtures of rugged individualism or only making pledg that you fully understand and truly mean.
No, I absolutely wouldn't be willing to die for any country, whether I was born in it or not. I do not understand the concept of patriotism. i think it is a construct created by some to get them to go to war.
Yes, if someone came to take what was mine, I would protect it if it was worth it. However, sometimes, discretion is better than valor. My life is worth far more than a few electronic gismos.
I suppose, coming from the country that has the highest crime rate and violence rate in the world, I see this differently.
I also wouldn't say a pledge to a country. I believe all people are humans, regardless of where they are born, and all need to be treated with respect.
I do concur, though, about the assimilation, and I don't believe diversity works, although it is politically correct to say it does. I think too much diversity causes friction.
Personally I find it ironic that the US ideal of everything doing exactly what they--and their children--will do, rather than being ordered around by the federal government, well, it has some blind spots. Like making every school room display a flag even if they might prefer to spend the money on books or something else. Commonwealth countries stopped having to display the Queen's portrait decades ago--and we're meant to be the type the prefers to be told what to do.
by Credence2 7 years ago
Oh yes, boys and girls, I am back, like a bad penny. I wonder what are conservative poster's positions on this topic is; are they really for freedom of religion or should children be hogtied and forced to participate in loyalty tests? I have studied with Jehovah's Witnesses and I say that their...
by WindMaestro 7 years ago
Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in school?Do you think that a child should be disciplined for not standing to recite the pledge of allegiance? Or do you think that any disciplinary action be considered unconstitutional?
by Victoria Lynn 8 years ago
Do kids still say the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of the school day?So many people still question this? Don't many elementary school students still recite the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of the school day?
by TMMason 9 years ago
NBC on Sunday decided to cut the words “under God” from the reading of the Pledge of Allegiance that accompanied the beginning of its coverage of the U.S. Open Golf Championship. In fact, this happened twice during the show’s introduction…http://michellemalkin.com/2011/06/19/nb …...
by ga anderson 7 years ago
In the course of another conversation I stumbled across this quote from Justice Felix Frankfurter in the context of a court case concerning forcing school children to say the Pledge of Allegiance, (West Va. Bd. of Ed. v. Barnette):“The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain...
by TMMason 9 years ago
How could something that includes the words ‘pledge of allegiance to the flag of the UNITED States’ be considered divisive? Believe it or not, the mayor and city council of Eugene, Oregon just voted on this very issue. (It should also be noted that the city of Eugene, Oregon is a member of...
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