Can't we just butt out?

1. 67

   superwagsposted 13 years ago

   After the detainment of six SAS soldiers in Eastern Libya I was left wondering; Can't we just keep our noses out and stop playing James Bond?!
   
   The last thing the Libyan opposition needs is surely the Brits charging around in the desert and giving Gaddafi's lot a chance to show that this revolution is a western plot. I think this is fairly obvious in the way they were detained and deported promptly!
   
   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12665575
   
   If we're going to do anything there then let's establish a no fly zone and give protection to the rebels that they desperately need. We can surely wait until this is all over until establishing diplomatic links which require deployment of SAS troops in the desert?!

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This whole thing puzzles me!
      Somebody was saying this morning that they could have walked in totally unobserved!

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      1. 67

         superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, it's crackers. Makes no sense at all. Apparently, given that there's been a Royal Navy ship docked in Benghazi for the past week, I'm not sure why they had to go all James Bond about it and do an airdrop in the middle of the desert, rather than just walk down a gangplank.
         
         Good old Britain though; always looking for a new foreign  mess to get themselves inolved in. We don't lack persistence!

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   2. 60

      pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      short answer in NO...brits , us needs to be there ...

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   3. 66

      Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      U.S. Defense Secretary Gates has spoken out against the idea of a Lybya no-fly zone, all but ruling this action out. He says it's tantamount to declaring war and requires preliminary air strikes at ground facilities to prevent air or ground counter measures. Beyond that he said that any future defense secretary who recommended military action on the ground in the Middle East or Africa "should have his head examined" or words to that effect.

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      1. 67

         superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The British govt had initially made noises that they would support a no fly zone from their bases in the med. They seem to have altered their stance since the Americans made their views clear though. I understand that a no fly zone would require an initial stage of taking out the anti-air infrastructure, but the alternative seems to be allowing an increasingly desperate Gaddafi to attack his own people from the air. I agree, it'd be a disaster if we went in on the ground.
         
         These decisions can't be made by one country, they should be the responsibility of the UN or Nato so that a course of action can't be seen as "Us versus Them" by the middle east as a whole. Once again though I'm questioning what the point of the UN is?
         
         Also returning to the OP, what the hell the UK special forces are doing there is anyone's guess. If they want to make diplomatic contacts, as Whitehall has claimed today, then they should do it through the front door. This story hasn't helped anyone.

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2. 72

   Jeff Berndtposted 13 years ago

   Lately it's us Yanks that have been blundering into ill-advised foreign adventures; it's kinda weird seeing the UK do it.
   
   'Course, you didn't do a full-scale invasion costing millions of pounds and thousands of lives, only to further destabilize the region, so you shouldn't feel too bad about it.

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   1. 67

      superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well we've embarked on the last couple with you. It appears we're relative amateurs to you lot! Just six SAS guys dodging around with fake passports and light weapons is harly shock and awe!
      
      Reminds me of a spoof headline before Iraq in which the newsreader said, "It appears America are attempting to make up for being late for the last two world wars, by being really punctual for this one."

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         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That's a good one.

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3. 0

   ryankettposted 13 years ago

   The SAS have been in there for a while now, evacuating diplomats and other British nationals; probably agents.
   
   There is no reason to suggest that the 8 caught with the diplomat were doing anything other than trying to get him out too. The rebels have stated that the SAS were trying to contact Gadaffi, that doesn't sit with me, that is outside of SAS remit.
   
   So, basically, a failed attempt to evacuate another diplomat. They have already sent a couple of plane loads back, so the place is probably crawling with SAS crack squads.

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   1. 67

      superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well that's not what William Hague's told the house today. He said that they were escorting two diplomatic officials into the country to try and make contact with rebel authorities. Not trying to evacuate people. Why on earth didn't they just do this in full sight?!
      
      The rebels are probably wrong and have misunderstood what they were there for, but if they'd been more open this wouldn't have happened. I don't doubt that there are more SAS there, I know the BBC have reported that there are special forces on Libya's Egyptian and Tunisian borders "helping" with the evacuation process.

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         ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Oh right, not sure. I wouldn't rule out British and American involvement in the unrest in each of these countries. Libya has got oil and gas, hasn't it? There you go, your answer

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         1. 67

            superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Haha! That's more like the cynicism I like to hear!

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4. 70

   Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years ago

   No one has a crystal ball to predict what Libya's next government will look like. It may be another rogue extremist state like Iran.
   
   The US and Britain are doing the right thing by waiting rather than charging in.
   
   The 6 SAS who were captured obviously were doing some small specialized task (rescue mission, info gathering, etc) and got caught at it. These things happen. Whatever the mission was, these 6 are heroes.
   
   My thoughts.

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   1. 67

      superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Let's hope that it's the democratic country that the rebels seem to want.
      
      The six captured SAS men (they're actually back in Malta now, thankfully) were escorting two diplomats IN! I'm not questioning these guys' bravery at all - anyone in the SAS is a hero in my eyes - just questioning the political decision making that went into this.
      
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12665575

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      1. 70

         Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed.
         
         Any no-fly zone or other large scale op should be done through the UN. Since oil is involved, there is a lot of world attention being focused on this and a rare UN agreement may be possible.
         
         The last thing we need is for the US & UK to expend our blood and treasure without even knowing if we're helping or making things worse.

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5. 60

   lady_love158posted 13 years ago

   We should butt out... when Muslims are busy killing each other they don't have time to kill us.

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   1. 67

      superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      How drole. Well done Love, another spectacularly ignorant comment.
      
      Don't you have a huge list of complaints about the Obama administration's handling of this one with links back to obscure right wing blogs? I thought that was normally what you stuck with ad nauseum?

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6. 52

   frosty eagleposted 13 years ago

   the o-bam-ma era was set up by the pun's of the land era of the 80's and 90's, the hinckely affair and the thomas and hill affair,each which lasted 11 years; 3 weeks after tonya hardings people hit nancy keriggen, which was the "hard ding" that started the "care again" era the ice dancer punslan had her pop die in level-land ohio; the answer to the hinckely affair, was that the butler did it, and the answer to thomas and hill, was that a woman should have been nominated; and the more that any laugh, or the harder that any laugh, the more seriously they should think of such info...frosty eagle

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      manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      !Que?

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      1. 70

         Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         A quote from Charlie Sheen?

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7. 72

   maven101posted 13 years ago

   Frosty Eagle needs to get out more...Whew...
   
   For once I am in complete agreement with the Obama administration's decision to do nothing militarily in Libya...humanitarian assistance, promoting UN lines of communication, diplomacy, and demanding Gaddafi step down, are all mature and pragmatic decisions that has been sadly lacking in foreign policy machinations...

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