With all the birther and socialist conspiracy theories surrounding this administration, was it wise to not produce a body? The distrust of the government in general is enough to warrant suspicion. The baby boomer generation grew up with Viet Nam and Johnson's lies and then there was tricky Dick Nixon with the Watergate. Let's not neglect the Regan Iran Contra affair to further the distrust. The ground has been well set for another round of conspiracy theories to counter this latest CIA affair. What happened to the transparency we were promised?
No problem with the burial at sea. After all, it gets him closer to hell which is where he is going, and without the virgins!!
So you totally buy the idea that it was Bin Laden that was deep sixed?
There was nothiing to sell Obama hated Bush If Bin Laden was dead all this time He would have said so earlier to make Bush and the Repubs look bad. Not to mention I have a relative in Military Intellegence stationed In Germany that was involved in the real time gathering of intel. He has not and cannot tell me details except they got him. Why would he tell me? Because I was a NY firefighter and wanted Bin Laden Dead!!!!
I didn't like this. I think it could lead to problems. Obviously it will feed conspiracy theorist. It may also inflame some Muslims who will see this as "dumping" the body. I don't understand why he wasn't returned to Saudi Arabia. I believe that was is Country of Origin. Its the norm for KIA's. I know that may not exactly apply here. In that case his body should have been returned to his family.
I think it was a big blunder not to produce the body. It was all done very quickly and it's all too neat and tidy for me. We don't know who or what was tossed into the sea and we will never know for sure. This wouldn't be the first time a death was faked and just because there is a photograph or a video means nothing. We have photographs and videos of Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster too. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but seriously... talk is cheap, show me the body.
And the ground is now well set for the pathetic likes of Lawrence O'Donnell to badger and berate and denigrate Condaleeza Rice and others. She has handled him like the champ she is, he is a pathetic liberal tool of MSNBC - a creep deluxe with every creeping day he is allowed to host his own show. This RaRa over Bin Laden's death seems to have emboldened two-bit and more mouth pieces for the liberal party. The fact is, if Bush had murdered him, in front of small children no less, and murdered many others in the effort-- Murderers! He had no trial! etc... would be screamed from the laptops, liberals would already have charges of murder pending, and you can take that to the bank.
O'Donnell is a shriveled pinky toe compared to Condaleeza Rice's intellect and grace and strong character, he cannot use her as he wishes this night.
UPDATE: 9:11PM The Ed Show on MSNBC is just as trite and sick and disgustingly liberal in his efforts to denigrate George Bush as any other -- in the very misguided effort to pump up Obama. Pathetic, and clearly shows enormous desperation on the part of the liberal sect of the Democratic Party.
With the brain cells of the liberal media activated and fed what to say and do this evening -- we have a VERY sad day this evening for the United States of America. And HELLO, Obama didn't try to share any credit or take any high road, it was quite clear to all it was all about him and his re-election. His Ground Zero visit was just part of that whole scripted scenario.
Can you believe the Florida creepo, Alan Grayson, is actually a highlighted guest for The Ed, or is it Mr. Ed? I know my horses are quite smarter than 'The Ed'. If you have to parlay Alan Grayson, a known sicko idiot -- games up and over.
Rice is a war criminal along with the rest of that adm.
She just blusters and pushes her opinion over all others...like she always did.
Dam shame she is allowed to walk free.
That is so ....... foul, and can't say after the past couple of days I am surprised.
I'm in very good company. You, however are with the likes of that bubble-butt blowhard, no-brain hot-air machine.
Hmmmmm, "bubble-butt", would that be Huckabee? If so, I don't support him. If you are referring to Hillary, which would be much more apt, as the term is such a foul and negative one applied to women for decades, so far as I know she's not running for anything to support.......
Afterthought: So, you are in very good company you say.....who would that be? It would be educational to know. Can we expect the use of bubble-butt as an attack word in the next race for the presidency?
Isn't bubble-butt Barry's pet name for the tamale lover?
I will kick my protuberant derriere for asking this, but I have to know. WHO is the bubble-butt?
... now back to our regularly scheduled conspiracy theories.
Hello ucv. Hello KFlip.
How is this grandiferous WH deed sitting with you folks anyhoo?
The next day after all the news reports, some of which were so at odds with the White House spin, the details actually disturbed me, nagged at me, and I struggled with that feeling, yet it continues to disturb me, and I can't even say that out loud because folks around me would think I was an indoctrinated left wing blue goob in need of counseling.
Update: I just don't know whose bubble-butt is up for criticism! Keep waiting for clarification!
Don't think so. The liberals' issue, for the most part, was Iraq. Iraq was a fool's errand and remains a fool's errand. I haven't heard much "ra ra" out of the liberal camp over Bin Laden's death.
Funny you cite how if this had happened under a Republican's watch, the liberals would be screaming murder - particularly because that is exactly what many of the Right and the Tea Party are doing now.
Let's be serious - no one cares whether the guy was armed, shaving, or taking a crap when he was killed. He's dead -
Rice got rattled because she was pinned down on a question that still remains very valid: Why did the Bush Administration apparently abandon Bin Laden and Al Quaeda and go after Iraq? In for a penny in for a pound.
Oh, okay and allrighty then, let's just shoot down any we choose.
You know what is so freakishly disturbing? The constant berating of the Bush admin. led me to really pay more attention to how we handled our enemies. Now libs pretty much put that old liberal posturing in the toilet with a really loud flushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh -- collateral damaged be damned.
Condolezza got no more than she deserved. She tried to justify the unnecessary, ridiculous, costly invasion of Iraq by citing events that occurred before the war over Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. The Cheney gang fudged the intelligence by going around the CIA and Condolezza Rice. Moreover, even if Iraq had had WMD they weren't a threat to the US because there was no delivery capability and because Saddam Hussein wasn't crazy enough to launch WMD at the US. He surely knew that would be suicidal. He miscalulated how dumb Bush was and how malevolent and determined Cheney and the Neocons were to attack Iraq whaterver the truth was about WMD. Some of their claims were lucicrous, e.g., mobile germ warfare labs. Others were just outright lies. A prudent course would have been to exercise patience and allow the UN inspections and economic sanctions to run their course. The most outrageous lie was Cheney's repeated efforts to connect Iraq with the 9-11 bombing in NYC.
So glad to know that at least one American has, and has had, an inside track to the actual facts of Sadddam and Iraq and their military capabilities, that is so comforting to know you are so assured of the facts. Amazing really, and too bad you didn't have a position in the Bush administation so you could have apprised them of your Iraqi inside knowledge of capabilities, etc....
The facts have been quite clear for some time, even to a few, before our foolish, costly, futile invasion of Iraq.
The facts of Iraq and Saddam and 911 and WMD's are really not part of the issue of Osama Bin Laden in this day and time. I am quite aware that today there are lots of questions about the actions taken in Iraq subsequent to 911. That said, I am not so blessed with 20/20 hindsight, or personal knowledge, to know that a Democratic president would have acted any differently on the information at hand and the circumstances presented.
It is really not pertinent to a discussion of the fate of Osama bin Laden.
I posted this before and I'm posting it again.
> A Guy walks into a bar and orders a "bin Laden".
> Bartender says “What's a bin Laden.”
> Guy says "Two shots and a splash."
Fact is, I did laugh out loud when I read this. But, I still have questions and qualms about the Bin Laden execution.
That said, what's with this "Rapper Common" considered a poet, , trashing America since 2004 at least? "How can we follow a leader when it's a corrupt one?" he says. This freak's pastor was Rev. Wright as well, and calls him a "conduit of love" since he was 8 years old.
Talk about sick. And he is a guest of our White House.
You were the one who brought up Condolezza Rice and Iraq, not me. I just agreed with you that there is a real issue wrt the legality or morality of killing rather than capturing Bin Laden. (However, I'm not crying about it.) Going forward the problem is what to do about all the terrorists in Yemen, Somalia and scattered around Europe and even in the U.S.
I think it was a smart move to have him buried at sea. If they didn't do that - you'd have a shrine popping up some place in Pakistan. As it is, the house where he was killed seems to have become some sort of tourist attraction. I guess the Pakistanis would blow up that house to prevent it from becoming a shrine for the Osama followers.
I don't think any doubts persist about him having been killed. There were reports today about Al-Qaeda acknowledging his death, so it was a smart move indeed!
The whole operation was one big blunder! Obama's inability to make a decision almost led to an early departure by Gates while Jarret successfully convinced Obama not to act because a notched operation would destroy his chances for reelection. It was Panetta acting without the presidents knowlege that finally issued the order and Obama was pulled off the golf course and filled in as you can see in the now historic photo. BinLaden should gave been taken alive!
true. there are people that swear he has been dead for years!
" I don't understand why he wasn't returned to Saudi Arabia. I believe that was is Country of Origin." Apparently I am the only one in the world, but maybe because they never had the real bin Laden body. Makes perfect sense to me. Or maybe one wants conspiracy theories. Gives the people something to do.
I am of the understanding that NO ONE, including his family, wanted his body. He lost his Saudi citizenship some time back.
I haven't read that "NO ONE" in his family wanted to take reciept of his body. I did know that Saudi Arabia had renounced/bannished him.
I'm not sure if any country would have openly accepted his body, so his family would have had to gone out to sea to receive it if they had wanted it, and every indication was they didn't (with the possible exception being his wife and any children who were living in the compound with them, who may or may not at this point be considered "enemy combatants").
I'm not sure if the United States would have been open to any scenario that didn't include Osama's corpse ending up at the bottom of the ocean in an undisclosed location, because they don't want any sort of memorial shrine to be built around his body.
" because they don't want any sort of memorial shrine to be built around his body."
This is obviously the motivator from the WH perspective.
In a perfect scenario of trust I would agree with you but I have a hard time just accepting statements as fact from any government representative and especially something so important such as this. Remember the Pat Tillman mess and how the government held on to the very end that it was not friendly fire that killed him.
If we are to have an air of trust for the administration there should be an effort on their part to present something that is above reproach and not left to any skepticism. Backing the story up with officials and such is just more of the same and does not remove the cloud that seems to continue.
I don't trust any of them, republican nor democrat.
I feel exactly the same way. I don't completely believe ANY WH version of ANY story, Democrat or Republican. Obama is in a tight spot regarding the GWOT. Much of his campaign rhetoric was against it. Today his ideology regarding the GWOT has to be tempered by the cold hard facts. Facts that the general public will NEVER know. I would love to have seen his face during his initial DHS/CIA/FBI brief. It had to be a look of shear horror. Can you imagine? He probably knew more about the issue than you or I going into that briefing. However he probably realized that he didn't even come close to having a complete or clear picture. What's worse is that briefing was followed with: "So, Mr. President, how would you like me to proceed." I don't envy his position. I also don't appreciate attempts to politicise National Security Issues. Again, both have done it.
My even bigger concern is our priorities. We keep getting wrapped around the axel regarding the details of this or that while congress continues to run amuck. So here we are discussing the details and possibilities of something that actually has no impact on our daily lives. In this scenario we are ignoring the fact that Pakistan is getting 3 billion a year to lie to us. We are paying Pakistan 3 billion a year so we can fly drones over their soil, killing people. It's nuts......
I agree that the diversionary tactics of both parties to deflect our concentation on issues such as the economy, healthcare and the war are very disturbing.
I just can't for the life of me understand why Obama would create a further distrust in the scheme of things unless there was some political advantage to it. Remember Emanuel said let no good crisis pass you by.
The man was a persona non grata - no country, no citizenship, nothing.
He may have a new name though.
I heard a "journalist" on Fox say we should call Osama "Spongebomb Squarepants" yesterday.
"I am of the understanding that NO ONE, including his family, wanted his body. He lost his Saudi citizenship some time back."
The theory I am preceding with is that bin Ladin has been dead since 2001. You missed the memo I posted yesterday.
"He would have said so earlier to make Bush and the Repubs look bad"
Unless they all belong to more or less the same gang.
It's amusing how desperately wingnuts are searching for a cloud - any cloud- to obscure this silver lining. But I will pretend the OP was serious.
OBL identified the conflict - the war - he started. He was a legitimate target while alive wherever he was. We had a 'claim' on his life. Once dead, we had very little claim on the corpse. But the corpse had potential value to our enemies as a focal point, and a shrine.
If we had only a weak claim to keeping the corpse as a war trophy, and a political liability if we released it, it made good sense to put he body out of reach of everybody. Smart move.
Indeed it was a smart move. Even some of the wing-nuts have worked that out by now.
Pakistan is reducing American military numbers now, as they are upset about the invasion of their air space.
I believe the decision to nail him was legal and imperative.
Wingnut here. Be happy when
inverse-wingnuts produce the evidence that Bin Laden ever committed a crime and particularly 9/11. The FBI said there was none. But evidence - that's so yesterday.
rhamson; Transparency is the new buzz-word, and they spin it to suit the situation. Transparency = confussion, they seem to want this, and a lot of it!
Takes you mind of what they are really doing
Who cares? There are much more important things to worry about these days. Ditto for issue of release of the photo of bin Laden.
Neither issue matters much and there are pros and cons on both sides. WRT the burial at sea, Obama or whoever made the decision deserves credit for effort to observe Muslim ritual and sensitivity. If they don't like it, tough gzotts!
I tend to agree with your line of thinking on this. The point Rhamson is making is that Obama ran on "Transparency", however the "Cloud of suspicion" continues. Of course on this issue the President is torn between giving an eager public "full disclosure" and agitating an irrational group of international terrorist.
Ralph: My point is that if there is ever to be any compromise between the two sides there needs to be a degree of trust. Without it we have the present situation of gridlock and the actors that take advantage of it.
Hey, I voted for Obama because of his opponent, a man who even stated he knew nothing about economics and the shrill voiced idiot from the wilderness.
If the parties wish to act autonomously then the results will be less than appealing to the electorate. That goes for an air of sketchy details that seem to be changing day to day with every release from the White House and the self seeking news people trying to scoop the story. A real unneccessary result.
I agree but why waste our time debating issues for which there are no black and white answers. They might make good debating team topics but I don't see that either one (photo or burial at sea) will make much difference either way. Dealing with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, spiraling Medicare costs and 9% unemployment are what we should be focusing on, not to mention the impending default in Greece.
Perhaps you are right. The few that wish to make this the issue of the month and have it as a stumbling block were predetermined for just this.
We've been innundated by all the talking radio and TV heads debating the fine points of Obama's decision not to release the photos and the burial at sea for the past few days. I'm tired of listening to them and don't feel strongly one way or the other. Of course Limbaugh, Hannity, et al, as usual, are seizing the opportunity to nitpick President Obama. Chris Matthews, et al, are just as bad on the other side.
Your words are a real hoot, and terribly and scarily enlightening as well.
Years have been spent by liberals to create a greater sensitivity to the handling of terrorist criminals, to trying to 'understand' their issues, to be more equalized and global and mother like in an American's assessment of global terrorists issues........that is in the toilet, and don't fault me for having serious thoughts about the morality of shooting him down without even a gun in hand. We did try Hussein and convict and execute. And I have been subject to the grand slam of liberal media telling me to be more open-minded. So-- what gives???
"don't fault me for having serious thoughts about the morality of shooting him down without even a gun in hand. We did try Hussein and convict and execute. And I have been subject to the grand slam of liberal media telling me to be more open-minded. So-- what gives???"
I wouldn't fault you, as I already said, that's a serious, debatable issue.
The court that tried and executed Saddam was Iraqi.
True. But the U.S. was in the driver's seat.
I am so glad you were an eyewitness to history. Where else could we go to get the absolute, unvarnished, untainted, objective truth. Thank you so much. Did you get Saddam Hussein Obama's autograph before they hanged him
His wife said it wasn't him.
But--guess you know better.
US troops caught "him". Check out "Jeans Cruz, USA". the hero who got treated like sh*t for his troubles.
Who was running the country at the time Saddam was executed? Your sarcasm is quite tiresome. You must think your quite a wit.
I am glad you were intimately acquainted with all details of civilian Iraq government and courts at the time of Saddam's execution. Sounds like yet another instance when opinion is to be taken as fact. Glad you like the hyperbole - I'll see what else I can do for you.
This is an interesting article....Seems as though Al Qaeda has a problem with the burrial at sea.
"The al Qaeda statement also urged the United States to treat the bodies of Osama bin Laden and those killed with him in the raid with care, and to return their bodies.
"We warn the Americans not to harm the corpse of the sheikh or expose it to any indecent treatment or to harm any members of his family, living or dead, and to deliver the corpses to their families," it said."
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/al-qaeda-confi … 49286.html
I think he's in the FBI Witness Protection Program...along with Elvis!
LOL Good one. Wait Did I not see a movie that said Elvis did not die he just went home?
He's in some bunker at Graceland and they're having peanut butter and banana sandwiches together!
I find that very hard to believe myself.
Not the bit about them being together in Graceland, but Bin Laden eating bananas seems a bit of a tall tale.
Instead of burying him at sea, they should have shot him out of a main cannon.
I don't have a problem with burial at sea; we certainly don't want the body on American soil and I doubt that any other country does either.
I wonder, though, about the Muslim funeral. Would we have been better off by simply rolling the body off the edge of the ship rather than trying to follow muslim rites? Followed by a public statement that Osama was not a muslim (muslims don't go around killing little girls and innocent people as part of their faith). He did not deserve any religious observances at his death and received none.
Al Quaeda would not have been any madder than they already are and I really wonder if the rest of the Muslim world would not have applauded the action.
It is good when America recognizes other religions than Christianity (it is part of what makes us Americans) but to call the murderous actions of that mad dog "religious" is simply stupid on our part. It does nothing but formalize terrorism as a valid and respected religion.
In my opinion, they should have brought his body here without telling anyone, then suddenly ''THIS IS A <insert TV news> SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT''...followed immediately by a picture of of bin Laden and comparison photos. Then disposed of his body right afterwards.
That would have at least gave a bit of credibility to this whole mess.
I believe it is all fake and he died several years ago. There are plenty of high-ranking officials that have said for years they knew he was dead, but you can't continue the US War of Terror on the world without the Boogeyman. Now that he is gone, I suspect another false flag attack like 9/11 or someone else to make a video threatenin Americuh.
With all the concerns here about the sea burial and Bin Ladens death , heres something for conspiracy nuts to chew on ......1,161 I know no one here knows what this number is . but 1,161 is the official number of Ground zero deaths that have not been and may never be even Identified! Perhaps you might spend a moment of silence , and even wonder if any of these dead would like to have been "Buried at Sea " while prayers in his native language were being translated for OBL's benifit. Did you also request "Proof " of thier deaths. Perhaps you could burn his body decapitate him and drag him around bagdad or Mosul,or maybe even New York City Anyone want in ?
Personally I would have liked to see him wrapped in bacon and nailed upside down to a cross planted in Times Square where the rats would nightly feed ob his rotting corpse and have a 24 video feed transmitted to the islamic extremists website so they could watch in real time his transformation into a pile of bleached white bones... ah but I can only dream.
No, Id settle for Rice, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfy, Pearl, Bush, Libby et al be put behind bars for treason and murder.
That ok with you, or do I have to believe your version of events?
Freedom comes at a price. Someday they may come to realize the sacrifice was worth it... or maybe they'll always allow themselves to be dominated by ruthless corrupt warlords... but at least we gave them a chance to be free.
Hey they shouldn't have attacked us! That isn't freedom either!
And when exactly were the US attacked by Afghanistan or Iraq?
Jesus Jumpin' Christ - When did "she" come back on the scene???
Oh I supposed Bin Laden was a lone pyscho that materialized out of thin air.
But Bin Laden didn't represent the foreign policies of either Afghanistan or Iraq.
No- he was an AMERICAN CIA operative.
NOW--you gonna finally take repsonsibility for 9/11, or keep denying the truth?
Lol! Yeah Bush planned 9/11 with Bin Laden's help! Lol!
No, they used Bin-Laden as the fall guy. Much like Sirhan Sirhan, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Mark David Chapman.
Higher-Ups never get their hands dirty. Only their minds and hearts are filthy.
That is so very sad, and you think what you think is funny?, even sadder, it can almost make an American shake their head in hopelessness, and wish to move....but darn, America is still the land of the free, and lots more wingnuts are spouting off in other countries than in the USA, so still the best place to live in the whole of the world!
So are you saying that
a) Buschco had no involvement or prior knowledge of the "Pearl Harborlike" event that was 9/11?
b) Osama bin Laden and al Quaeda had no involvement with 9/11?
c) That Bushco did have involvement but did not plan 9/11 with OBL
d) That OBL pulled the trigger on 9/11 but not in complicity with Bushco
e)None of the above
f) All of the above ???
I am serious. I honestly do not know what you believe about 9/11.
I find it very interesting that some people will believe some conspiracy theories and other people will believe some conspiracy theories but not the same ones.
So who perpetrated 9/11?
Never mind. I see you answered the question.
Bin Laden = 9/11.
Doesn't really matter to me , listen , we no longer live in ,and never will again , the kind of world where we can ignore the other nations and their leaders who are a huge threat to the rest of the world ,and or , they're own people ! Anyone who believes we can decide to just turn our heads the other way is nuts. I would love it if surgical strikes and missles could do all of the worlds police work, but it can't be done by machines. As to those of you who "choose" to be pacifists or refuse to hold the rest of the world as accountable as you do this nation : All I can say is you are fortunate to still breath with your heads buried so deeply in the sand, And don't give me this Free speech crap , someone else won that right for you , certainly you can admit that. Pacifists are the among the first refuges to abandon a nation without fighting and run towards the light of freedom elsewhere , I would ask where you stand for your country but I'm sure you stand near the border ready to flee to another protector , when America comes under fire ,by terrorism or worse ,again.
Ok people , here's the honest to gods truth, Bin Ladin is actually George Bush seniors first son by another woman, He was threatening in private circles to out Big George to us all so ! , Barbara went to Little George and and said to him , "listen W , If all this comes out everyones going to find out that you and Condi Rice are actauly brother and sister. So in order to keep peace in the oil fields , You must kill OBL......if the bottom drops out of the crude oil price we are done for" So there's the proof W and OBL are brothers and Condi is thier sister. :-}
My guess is that our government didn't want him dug up by his "homies", I can imagine how THAT might spark more problems with terrorist attacks.
Yes , my god, I can't believe the conspiracy crap going on. You would thing some of these people were related to him.
"Bin Laden's Burial at sea, a huge blunder?"
Personally, I would have tossed him someplace where vultures are known to hangout.
I certainly wouldn't have planned ahead for a traditional burial service, Osama damn sure didn't for the Americans who died on 911 and afterwards, I found that disturbing, the clear pre-planning for an Osama Muslim burial rite. So, yeah, if you go to the effort to shoot him down unarmed, why not take a pic and leave him for the vultures? Would make more sense to me.
Bubble-butt is Russsshhhhhhh Limbaugh the Patron Mouth of righty-land.
Who wouldn't know the truth if he sat on it with his big fat bubble-butt!
I'm sure the US Navy dumped his body in shark infested waters. I like Jon Stewart's idea of encasing his body in carbonite (like Darth Vader did to Han Solo in the Empire Strikes Back) and hang him in the West Wing of the White House. Lol
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