GOP lawmaker wants ‘South California’ to be the nation’s 51st state
By Holly Bailey | The Ticket
A GOP lawmaker in California says he has a solution to the state's massive budget woes: He wants 13 conservative-learning counties to secede and form a new state called "South California."
The secession push is the brainchild of Riverside County Supervisor Jeff Stone, a Republican who tells the Los Angeles Times he's sick of the state government raiding local budgets without curbing its own spending in pursuit of what he calls a liberal agenda.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/gop- … 58363.html
s I thought Texas was going to secede from the Union? everyone's mad at the feds and want to be their own country...they'll need the protection if the drug wars cross over the borders
Actually, a lot of states would probably flourish if they seceded.
Drug war crime wouldn't be NEARLY as bad in a state if it didn't have the federal government enforcing highly idiotic "WAR ON DRUGS" laws.
I fully support this drive to more localized government! Give 'em hell South California!
Yeah, I heard he exluded Los Angeles because of "the liberals".
All these righty's want one-party rule. Isn't that communist?
No, it's not. It's not in any way shape or form the same thing as communism. That was a remarkable attempt at twisting an argument.
One party rule isn't evil, and it most likely would be very temporary. Also, you assumed that "Republicans" are the only people for the secession (from the state, not the nation). I'm sure a lot of Constitutionalists and Libertarians are for the move.
I said righty's---you took it to mean republicans.
not my fault.
And one party rule is not communism? So what IS communism?
Communism is total subjugation of resouces, industry and commerce by the gov't. It could be one party or 12 parties so long as they all work strictly within that framework. What we have is more like fascism: Gov't and private wealth working hand in hand to suppress the will of the people.
So--Republicans taking control of part of a state, ridding it of "liberals" would be fascism then?
Fascism is, indeed, generally defined as the "extreme right wing" being in charge of the state.
But, anyone looking at the US today would agree that the left wing is in charge.
Either way, if we're going to call "republicans starting a new state" "Fascist" then we'd have call the rest of California "Communist"
Libertarians and Constitutionalists aren't "righties", they're "uppies" (yes, there's more than one direction involved in politics. Although, both measurements are foolish).
Communism is state control of the market. If the government runs the economy, or the majority of it (we're nearing this point in the US), then no matter how many political parties there are, it's still communism.
No, if the private sector keeps the profits in a totalitarian government it is fascistic, not communistic. With the housing bubble and crash we are close to being fascistic.
... when a government blows $800 billion of the people's money that it stole from them to give to 4 or so companies...
that's communism, buddy.
Either way, Fascism and Communism are VERY similar.
No, they are not similar. Fascism is a corporate takeover of our liberties. But to call it communism places blame off of the corporations and on to the government. The fascist corporations are mainly in finance, health care, energy and defense.
The Koch Brothers are working overtime, being in energy, to mislabel fascism to protect their horrible behavior. Their father founded the John Birch Society and they are the major backers of the Tea Party.
Fascism is generally defined as an "extreme right wing" being in charge of the state (warfare and socially conservative ideologies).
Communism is generally defined as as "extreme left wing" being in charge of the state (taxation and spending on general welfare).
If you can't see the similarities between the two, then further conversation is moot.
First of all, many these days are trying to label fascism as a left wing, or liberal cause. You have it right about the left wing right wing thing.
But you miss the point about why people want to blame the government more than the corporations. They have the media. They want the government to take a hit in order to divert blame off of them. They want the old to blame the young, the young to blame the old,; they want to blame fannie and freddie instead of the culpable central banks who allowed fannie and freddie and allowed ponzi loans even after fannie and freddie pulled back; they want to blame seniors, boomers, the poor and everyone else under the sun.
It is a planned campaign, and it has brainwashed you Evan. I am sorry you can't see it. Maybe one day you will.
Um, becoming the 51st state doesn't involve leaving the country. It just involves dividing what is currently one state into two states. Not that it has a tinker's chance of actually happening.
We (Texas) will need the Fed's protection if the drug war crosses the border?!?!? Are you kidding? I don't know where you have been, but the drug war crossed the border long ago and people along the border have been protecting themselves for several years now! Our governor has repeatedly asked for more help along the border and has been spit on by the Administration. No national guard on the border, he's told. Seriously, this is nothing that 'might' happen, it already has and the Fed. is not protecting us now.
Border states have been at the mercy of the drug lords for a while, so I'm sure the new state, if it ever succeeded in becoming one, would do exacly what we've been doing. There is no question of losing protection of the Fed. since they would still be a state anyway, not a new nation.
I meant california..yeah you Texans have it very bad!
and BTW.isnt there already a southern California--they call it Baja California ?si?
Texas would be MUCH better off with the US government enforcing it's "War On Drugs" -- imagine if Texas just made weed illegal! Half the violence would disappear in a month!
Teaxs will NEVER make weed legal...it's too big a quick arrest and intro into the machinery of their prison-for-profit business system they have going.
Texas and Arizona...the big pfp states.
Texas will never make weed legal. Can you name a prison here in Texas that is for profit?
"The country with the highest incarceration rate in the world — the United States — is supporting a $3 billion private prison industry. In Texas, where free enterprise meets law and order, there are more for-profit prisons than any other state"
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/28/134855801 … in-trouble
The Horrors of Hutto: Inside Texas' For-Profit Immigrant Prison
The Prison for Profit Industry
http://ricoforsheriff.com/further-readi … t-industry
Ok the Wikipedis link was bogus, here is what the page says
"Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name."
The first one shows it is possible for I do not know all the prisons in the state. However, I clicked on 3 that I knew. ! was federal and could be a for profit but it is not run by the state, the other 2 definatly are not private or for profit. I have a friend who is a guard in one of them, so I know first hand
NPR has no credibility so I do not go there
The last one has some credibility, though it is not a government report which would have been better. So THere may be a few here somewhere.
Private Facility Contract Monitoring/Oversight Division - Prison/Work Program
ACA Accredited Unit Since January 2005
Unit Full Name: Lockhart Correctional Facility Unit Address and Phone Number: P.O. Box 1170, Lockhart, Texas 78644
(512) 398-3480 (**109) Unit Location: 1400 Industrial Blvd., within city limits of Lockhart, east of Hwy 20 in Caldwell County Senior Warden: Robert White
Insulting "Prisons for Profit" is a ridiculous endeavor. I suggest you cease immediately.
You insult the not-so-free-market for doing nothing more than locking people behind bars when the STATE-RUN MONOPOLY of law-creation and law-enforcement is the machine that is putting the people IN the prisons.
And, once again, the prisons for profit system isn't even a free market. There are countless regulations on these prisons, and the privilege to make a profit off of prisoners is a gift granted by the state-run monopoly of law-creation (read: bribes and lobbyists).
Your gripe is, once again and as always, with government, not with the free-market.
(like shooting fish in a barrel... only instead of a gun, i'm using dynamite)
"Your gripe is, once again and as always, with government, not with the free-market."
No, it's with the intersection of government and enterprise. These for profit prisons make a profit providing a necessary service to society - exactly what they're supposed to do under the free market. BUT they turn around and use some of that profit to lobby federal, state, and local governments for harsher laws (or even run for office themselves), so the "machine that is putting people IN the prisons" ends up being a puppet government controlled by the companies, not the government by itself.
The people are given the contract to operate the prisons through government. -- This means that the corrupt individual with MONOPOLY decisions are in charge. That would be the government.
The number of people who are locked up (the supply) is determined solely by the MONOPOLY of law-creation and enforcement. Once again, this would be government.
The government is the one dishing out the bonuses - it's our fault for giving it this power.
It's impossible to say that the government is the victim, when it has/had all the power the entire time.
Except that I just demonstrated clearly that is was not. When the companies are the ones writing the laws and getting them passed, where does the company end and the government begin?
How would a libertarian society stop this process? I haven't heard even the most hardcore of libertarians argue that there should be NO criminal justice system at any level of government, merely that it should be more local and privatized as much as possible. What if the same company that owns the jails owns the police force and the courts? At least under the current system there's SOME accountability - most judges and police chiefs are elected offices, or appointed by someone who is, and the lawmakers may be owned by the companies, but it's at least theoretically possible to get rid of them should they get too out of line.
A) you assume that prisons would exist in a free-market society. Perhaps there is a better way that competition would reveal to us to deal with criminals. What about banishment? What about simply refusing to make deals with an individual: try living a day where no one would voluntarily trade with you.
B) there would be a TRUE free market in would-be prisons: you wouldn't be "allowed" to run a prison for profit, you would simply build a prison and run it. Then whatever system of law-enforcement would WILLINGLY choose YOUR prison. Their reputation would be at stake, and so would the prison's.
C) "What if the same company that owns the jails owns the police force and the courts?" --- once again, you're assuming that "a police force" would have to exist. In a free-market society, people would mostly be protecting their own property, and hence would have "rent-a-cops", as liberals like to call them.
But, yes, what if the company that is chosen to enforce laws happens to also be the company that judges individuals? ... if they start abusing that power, people will stop using their company! There is a HUGE incentive to be fair and keep your reputation in tact.
People rising up against a government when they don't get a verdict they like is MUCH more difficult to do than people simply refusing to use a company if they don't like a verdict. ---- Ergo, the people have MUCH more power to change, and the companies have MUCH more incentive to stay fair.
If you do it by ensuring your country is made up mainly of people who will support you, that's just a grand version of the great ol' American tradition of redrawing constituency lines.
They are corporations!
Prisoners are traded on the stock exchange, like cattle!
Mama Bush owns stock, Gonzales and Cheney got in trouble for their dealings in it......
They do not think of others as human! That is the problem with the elites. They truly believe they are a higher order of being! IMO
Here is what really happened
A South Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on state charges related to the alleged abuse of prisoners in Willacy County's federal detention centers.
The indictment, which had not yet been signed by the presiding judge, was one of seven released Tuesday in a county that has been a source of bizarre legal and political battles in recent years. Another of the indictments named a state senator on charges of profiting from his position.
Willacy County District Attorney Juan Angel Guerra himself had been under indictment for more than a year and half before a judge dismissed the indictments last month. This flurry of charges came in the twilight of Guerra's tenure, which ends this year after nearly two decades in office. He lost convincingly in a Democratic primary in
The indictment accuses Gonzales of using his position while in office to stop an investigation in 2006 into abuses at one of the privately-run prisons. Nothing to do with stocks
None of the indictments released have been signed by Presiding Judge Manuel Banales of the Fifth Administrative Judicial Region
A judge has dismissed the indictments brought by Willacy County grand jury against Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
Administrative Judge Manuel Bañales Jr. ruled Monday that eight indictments, including those involving Cheney and Gonzales, were improperly returned by the grand jury last month. The indictments against Cheney and Gonzales centered on the alleged abuse of inmates at prisons in the county were dismissed on lack of evidence.
So they did not get in any trouble. Lets keep making things up
It's truly disgusting.
When you put a profit motive on incarceration...why then naturally greedy people will do what?
Work to incarcerate more!!!
And the juvenile detention facilities are the same way!
We live in the Belly of the Beast, disguised by a psuedo relious fervor that masks the truly horrific evil we subject "lesser beings" to.
"Billboard repair companies" aren't running around destroying billboards.
"Lawn maintenance companies" aren't running around destroying lawns.
"Car repair shops" aren't running around damaging cars.
"Doctors" aren't running around spreading diseases.
These foolish arguments are clearly nonsense.
Yes yes, the situation seems pretty clear: "if you make it possible to make a profit off of misery, then misery will be widespread!" It completely ignores the fact that competition exists: Why bother spending money to do damage to someone else's property when a) you could get caught and ruin your reputation, and b) you have no assurance that the victim will come to your business to fix the problem.
(man, there are an endless supply of fish-filled barrels, and I seem to have a non-stop supply of dynamite)
Actually, for profit prison companies essentially wrote Arizona's now notorious sb1070 immigration law. That seems like a fairly direct and obvious attempt to get more people incarcerated.
(1). Prison population grew FIVE HUNDRED PERCENT (500%) between 1972 and 1998, with only a 28% rise in the national population during that same period of tme.
(2). U. S. Prison Population Tops 2.1 Million.
(3). One in every 142 US residents is now in prison.
(4). One in every 75 US men is now in prison.
"Money money money money.....MONEY!"
If you look MORE closlierly, you'll see clearly that the War on Drugs started in 1971.
The increased incarceration rates have NOTHING to do with for-profit prisons, and EVERYTHING to do with prohibition.
One could argue that for-profit prisons might have lobbied for a war on drugs -- although there's no evidence -- but then I'd simply counter with: "why the hell did we let a monopoly of law creation create such a dumb law?"
Once again, your gripe is with government, not the free-market.
(Fish, barrel, dynamite... BOOM... fish, barrel, dynamite... BOOOM!!!)
Why not look at actual numbers from the state?
My husband is a cop in Texas and tells me that the private prisons are run by what used to be Wackenhut, along with some other companies. Just look at the chart, it's not a secret.
That being said, I don't care if they treat the inmates as "chattel" because they are there for a reason. They are not being abused, unless they're abusing each other, and when their sentence is served they will be free. What's the problem? Why so angry about criminals being treated like criminals? It's what they deserve.
Criminals should be punished but not at the cost of new jobs being created within the Prison System.
What a concept:
Break the Law become incarcerated and you will have shelter, clothing, food and a job. How many unemployed law-abiding citizens traverse through life today without these guarantees?
I'm not sure of your point. Not to be rude, but it seems like we agree, partly.
I don't believe for a second that corporations who own prisons are creating more criminals to fill them. Criminals already existed and the states couldn't handle them all, which is when private corporations stepped in to fill the gaps. Who cares? Why does that bother anyone? It's called capitalism. Oh, I forgot, there are many here who hate that term.
I agree that there are many good people out there, especially right now, who are without those necessities. I hate it and it makes me sick. My husband books many 'regulars' into jail every Friday evening because they would rather be there than outside with no shelter. Of course that's jail, not prison, not much comparison. But the point is they want the security of the meals and shelter, and that's just sad. But I'd rather they had the jail than a cardboard box in a park.
For profit prisons are quickly becoming the largest job growth sector of our economy. Manufacturers are moving their operations out of Mexico into the U.S. prison system.
These prisons pay the inmates pennies an hour. It is a new form of slavery. Especially when the prisons kick back money to the Counties for every prisoner supplied.
Our country passes meaningless laws to make sure the inmate supply does not dry up. It is disgusting and against everything this Country stands for.
I have written a hub on this
PS: I do not find you rude at all. I enjoy debate.
Well I have worked with those inmates and they appreciate every penny they are making. Ask one. They have money in their account to buy 'store' items and they might even have some when they get out. They are not forced to work, it is a privilege that they earn and they are glad to have it. Just ask someone who has done it and I bet they will tell you they wanted the work. Sometimes they get better housing and they generally appreciate being out of their cells for part of the day.
They do not DESERVE the jobs. They are being punished.
The unemployed would also appreciate being punished with steady work. Do they have to commit heinous acts for the privilege?
No, but they also would not work for 22 cents and hour. It's just a way for inmates to build up some money to buy smokes and new underwear. It doesn't bother me, but I understand that they are being punished and they don't deserve the jobs. I just don't think of it as slavery since they are not forced to take the jobs. That was my point really. But I understand your point too.
Of course it's not slavery!!
"Hey, wanna do this job for $0.01 an hour?"
The SECOND that the other person agrees, it's not slavery.
It only becomes slavery when the individual is FORCED to agree.
Their choice is to work six days a week for virtually nothing or be subject to lockdown 23 hours a day. If a prisoner does earn money then that money should go to restitution to their victims.
County prisons pay minimum wage and fed prisons pay a few dollars an hour. Private prisons are labor camps. Maybe not forced but darn close to it.
County jails do not pay minimum wage, the inmate is lucky to get $2.00 an hour. I used to have a whole crew working for me. The Sheriff gets more than that for the use of the prisoners, but the prisoner himself only gets a small percentage of it.
I don't know what prisons pay so I'll defer to you on that one.
Well that's a foolish argument.
IF those jobs really need to be done, then let's hire the homeless to do them!!!
... oh wait, minimum wage laws make it completely un-profitable to do so because the work is probably worth less to the employer than $7.50/hour to do.
ONCE AGAIN!! The free-market is unscathed, and the government is shown to be evil.
Why are we paying inmates at all? (That's just dumb)
Why are these people going to jail in the first place? (government laws)
Why is the business booming? (Government laws)
Once again, the not-so-free-market is clear of all charges, and government is found to be guilty of being evil.
But this is simply demonstrating the thin line that separates government from "private enterprise"... I have a brother who, all tolled, spent 7 years in the Los Angeles County and State of California houses on incarceration...
The Twin Towers facility in Los Angeles is comprised of two buildings of seven floors each(hence twin) housing prisoners.. This is part of the County system, for offenders serving time on sentences of up to 1 year... Keefe Commissary gained a contract to supply the LA County system, charging greatly inflated prices for all kinds of snacks, hygiene supplies, and all kinds of other items.. The County gets proceeds of some of these funds, while the County Sheriff's family personally profit... Baca's daughter is widely known to work for the distribution branch of Keefe...
There are chain of commands for both the Deputies and the prisoners. Each floor of twin towers is "overseen" by an inmate authorized by the Southsiders gang (a union of the "trece" gangs..unified under the Mexican Mafia). Each "dorm" (large room housing 50+ inmates) also has someone designated to be "in charge"...this person enforces hygiene, order and discipline, and is given the authority to enforce punishments on other inmates who "fall out of line".
One way to "fall out of line" is to "not pay your taxes".... When locked up, everything has to be purchased...from toothpaste/toothbrushes/soap to shower shoes and food. All of these purchases have to be made through Keefe Commissary...however, each prisoner is required to make "purchases" for the hard core gangsters housed on floors 4 through 6.
The Deputies create new economies within the jails/prisons using products banned by prison rules, like tobacco.
The last couple times my brother was taken away, the charges were completely baseless....and though we fought hard in court, it was impossible for him to get out from behind the stigma of being a previously convicted "felon." I would visit him on the weekends... When he was locked up the last time (for the last time) he said that a deputy was telling departing inmates (who had served their time) that "he'll keep cells ready for them"..."you guys are paying for my houses and my boat"...
Regardless of guilt or innocence...whenever those jail busses are transporting the arrested the dollars are piling up...
But, I say all this with an eye on Keefe Commissary.... It pays to keep people flowing into jails/prison....
I don't know what to say about this: that didn't really refute my argument.
*A* prison is mistreating its prisoners. -- So why doesn't the government refuse to work with them? (government's fault).
Increase competition in law-enforcement! End the government monopoly!
"I don't believe for a second that corporations who own prisons are creating more criminals to fill them."
"I don't believe for a second that corporations who own prisons are creating more criminals to fill them."
"Of course that's jail, not prison, not much comparison"
GASP!! Someone else knows the difference between Jail and Prison!
You missed one thing: The government has a monopoly on throwing people in prison, and a monopoly on deciding WHY they should be thrown in prison.
So, the reason why there are so many incarcerations is because our government has simply made too many laws.
"Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals, Does such barbaric abuse inside U.S. jails explain the horrors that were committed in Iraq?"
Torture Inc, America's brutal prisons
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf … le8451.htm
Nothing excuses this. It's Pure Sadism, done for sport, IMO.
The fact that people support it is why we are in such trouble as a country.
I know for a fact, a warden of a US prison went to Iraq to "train" the guards.
Probly sent for by Rumsfeld...or Cheney. The Grim Reapers.
You will believe anything you can find that supports your view.
"They are just some of the victims of wholesale torture taking place inside the U.S. prison system that we uncovered during a four-month investigation for BBC Channel 4."
BBC Chanel 4.....are you accusing them of making fake videos?
"The prison guards stand over their captives with electric cattle prods, stun guns, and dogs. Many of the prisoners have been ordered to strip naked. The guards are yelling abuse at them, ordering them to lie on the ground and crawl. ‘Crawl, motherf*****s, crawl.’
If a prisoner doesn’t drop to the ground fast enough, a guard kicks him or stamps on his back. There’s a high-pitched scream from one man as a dog clamps its teeth onto his lower leg.
Another prisoner has a broken ankle. He can’t crawl fast enough so a guard jabs a stun gun onto his buttocks. The jolt of electricity zaps through his naked flesh and genitals. For hours afterwards his whole body shakes.
Lines of men are now slithering across the floor of the cellblock while the guards stand over them shouting, prodding and kicking.
Second by second, their humiliation is captured on a video camera by one of the guards.
The images of abuse and brutality he records are horrifyingly familiar. These were exactly the kind of pictures from inside Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad that shocked the world this time last year."
YOU won't believe anything, no matter the proof.
"Corrections Corporation of America (CCA),is the nation's largest operator of prisons for profit.
Perhaps most controversial is CCA's close ties to the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). ALEC is a powerful force in the promotion of the conservative policy agenda among state legislators. One of its major functions is writing model bills that advance conservative principles and working with its members to have these bills introduced. CCA has been a corporate member and a major contributor to ALEC and a member of its Criminal Justice Task Force. CCA executives have co-chaired the Task Force over many years. As a result of the model bills developed by the Task Force, ALEC claims credit for the widespread adoption of Truth in Sentencing and Three Strikes/Habitual Offender legislation. Through its support of ALEC, CCA is helping to create greater demand for its services as a result of changes in state policies that keep more people behind bars for longer periods.
With more than two million people behind bars and the highest rate of incarceration in the world, the U.S. certainly does not need companies with a vested financial interest in further growth influencing our justice policies."
Non violent crimes, such a drugs, gets you 20 yrs. It's completely inhumane. As are we Praise the Lord.
Read the link on Hutto Prison..it's women and children for gods sakes.
"Our country passes meaningless laws to make sure the inmate supply does not dry up. It is disgusting and against everything this Country stands for."
and yet, we're mad at the private security system....
... instead of the government....
Sounds like we're mad at the country...PEOPLE that make up this country....is that gvt or business?
Gvt in collusion with business to make a profit is bad.
Gvt in collusion with business to do good for the country is good.
We just need to get the foxes out of the hen house....and that is the hard part.
Cause the previous gvt gave them free reign.
Lovemychris: Which of the following two entities has an absolute monopoly on law-making?
Now, using the same choices above, let's ask more questions:
Which one is allowed to strip people of their rights?
Which one is allowed to grant the other the ability to create a prison?
Which one can steal money?
Which one has a monopoly on the law-enforcement?
I still have a hard time figuring out why people are mad at companies for ASKING for money (lobbying), but are NOT mad at government for STEALING the money and then GIVING it to the companies!
It's friggin' bizzaro land here in HubPages.
Not a bad idea, why should Northern California legislation determine Southern California also. The North and South California are completely different, and should be treated as separate entities. It would create more efficient laws aimed at each individually, instead of blanket laws for the whole state that don't necessarily apply to both.
"No one should doubt that the vast majority of U.S. prison officers are decent individuals doing their best in difficult circumstances. But when horrific abuse by the few goes unreported and uninvestigated, it solidifies into a general climate of acceptance among the many.
At the same time the overall hardening of attitudes in modern-day America has meant the notion of rehabilitation has been almost lost. The focus is entirely on punishment – even loss of liberty is not seen as punishment enough."
what has happened to us?
we are gripped by evil, lost is the message of Love.
Not to mention the phone calls....Global Tell. Buy a $25.00 card, they take $2.80 right off the bat. 20 minutes for about $3.00...
Everything has a dollar sign attached to it.
And recently, a guard here is accused of selling drugs to inmates.
It's big business, any way you look at it. As is Everydamthing in America these days.
And no one cares, because "they deserve it"
Really-I can't wait for it all to come down...maybe another flood is needed. But make it rain tear-drops...for all the injustice and cruelty in the world.
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What do you all think about this one? Seems like some good fodder for my fellow hubbers.
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