What happens when govt takes back privately controlled county jail?

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   PrettyPantherposted 11 years ago

   With profit no longer the primary motivator, a county jail now operates more efficiently and safely, saving the taxpayers $1 million the first year alone.
   
   Hernando County's takeover of jail brings year of sweeping changes

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Privatized prisons was a bad idea. They should be run by the government and responsible to the courts, to voters and taxpayers.

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         John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Surprisingly here in the UK we have a greater percentage of prisoners in private prisons than the US!
         
         They don't work, more recidivism, more escapes, more pressure on the courts to pass prison sentences rather than more cost effective alternatives, more upheld prisoner complaints and so on.

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            Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            There are certain things that the private sector has no business running. Jails/prisons, the military and the postal service are prime examples.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Or, they could all compete for humane treatment, cleanliness, lack-of-outbreaks, and which jails keep out the most contraband. Heck, they may even help nullify bad decisions: "Jim bob clearly wasn't guilty, judge. We won't take him." or "Sorry, we can't continue to aide the failed war on drugs. We refuse to accept any violators of victimless drug crimes".
         
         We could also have judges and courts competing for the fairest rulings, consistent rulings, and who look at evidence more clearly than who pays the most.
         
         Instead we have the system of "Hey, I need to be re-elected. I'll rule in your favor more often if you give me a 'campaign contribution' of a few mill"
         
         And "Oh, is prison #5 at 120% capacity? Let's just throw them in Jail #6!"
         
         ---
         
         We need to realize that jails and courts are important market functions and allow them to thrive just like the rest.
         
         It's no surprise that these sections of the economy are struggling when most others are not.

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            John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            But where's the profit in that?

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               kerrygposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Seriously. For-profit prisons make more profit by housing more prisoners, not fewer. Any for-profit prison principled enough to take a stand on issues like victimless drug crimes would soon be driven out of business by those with fewer scruples.

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            PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            We could also ride unicorns and watch pigs fly. 
            
            Private judges would rule in favor of who pays them the most money.  Free market, ya know?

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's a brilliant idea.  Since there are thousands of WalMarts in the U.S., and WalMart is so efficient at everything they do, they could build some cells next to the cat food isle of each store.
            
            Unregulated capitalism is the solution to all of our problems.

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               PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Unregulated free market wet dream:
               
               

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                  Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The cartoon says it all!

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                     Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I hear a lot of hate about private prisons, but no one on here is damning the government for the War on Drugs which puts them all in there.
                     
                     Why do you focus your hate on the private sector trying to accomodate the government when the government is the problem to begin with.
                     
                     Such is the flaw of government.

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   Hugh Williamsonposted 11 years ago

   With private jails or any other business, profits are maximized when inputs are low and gross income is high.
   
   Privatizing is nice theoretically but it fattens up the pay-to-play campaign donations and fosters more corruption -- since money is now involved. Remember the "kickback judge?"
   
   http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article. … TLIN643024

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   Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago

   Evan, here's an example of what can happen with private prisons. (Not suggesting that there are no problems with public prisons--overcrowding, poor medical care, drugs, gangs, etc.)
   
   "Yes, my son made a mistake, but I didn't think he was going to be taken away from me," said Swartley, a 41-year-old single mother raising two boys in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.
   
   CNN does not usually identify minors accused of crimes. But Swartley and others agreed to be named to bring public attention to the issue.
   
   As scandals from Wall Street to Washington roil the public trust, the justice system in Luzerne County, in the heart of Pennsylvania's struggling coal country, has also fallen prey to corruption. The county has been rocked by a kickback scandal involving two elected judges who essentially jailed kids for cash. Many of the children had appeared before judges without a lawyer.
   
   The nonprofit Juvenile Law Center in Philadelphia said Phillip is one of at least 5,000 children over the past five years who appeared before former Luzerne County President Judge Mark Ciavarella.
   
   Ciavarella pleaded guilty earlier this month to federal criminal charges of fraud and other tax charges, according to the U.S. attorney's office. Former Luzerne County Senior Judge Michael Conahan also pleaded guilty to the same charges. The two secretly received more than $2.6 million, prosecutors said.
   
   The judges have been disbarred and have resigned from their elected positions. They agreed to serve 87 months in prison under their plea deals. Ciavarella and Conahan did not return calls, and their attorneys told CNN that they have no comment.
   
   Ciavarella, 58, along with Conahan, 56, corruptly and fraudulently "created the potential for an increased number of juvenile offenders to be sent to juvenile detention facilities," federal court documents alleged. Children would be placed in private detention centers, under contract with the court, to increase the head count. In exchange, the two judges would receive kickbacks.
   
   http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1 … hbxlogin=1

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   Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

   Private prisons are the new plantations.  The prisoners are slaves. One day the slaves will uprise and the slave owners will be on the justice receiving end.

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   Repairguy47posted 11 years ago

   Just assuming most of you live in the U.S. I will ask this. If you hate capitalism so much why do you live here? Wouldn't it be easier and less frustrating for you to live in a country that has a system that matches your core values?

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      PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Did someone say they hate capitalism?  Believing that some things such as health care, clean water, and the incarceration of human beings should not be based solely on profit is not the same as hating capitalism.

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         Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You don't have to say you hate capitalism it is apparent that you hate capitalism.

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            PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            LOL!  I get paid to counsel and perform research for small businesses.
            
            Are you always so presumptuous?

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               Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               It isn't presumptuous at all, I read that you prefer government to private. You get paid because you live in a capitalist society. Lucky you.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't prefer government to private.  There is a place for both.
                  
                  You remind me of someone:
                  
                  
                  
                  Are you channeling Jim?

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                     Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't know Jim. Care to explain what you mean? Now back to the topic, what  does government control efficiently?

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                        PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        The Center for Disease Control.  Would private industry monitor our meat and track flu viruses?
                        
                        School hot lunch programs.  Can't see private industry ensuring that poor children receive a nutritious lunch every single school day.
                        
                        The Interstate Highways System. Do I need to explain?
                        
                        The FDIC.  Why do you think your bank account is safe? 
                        
                        Your city drinking water is safe due to those pesky government regulations.
                        
                        Those are just a few off the top of my head.

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                           Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           And these operate efficiently? How do you gauge that?

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                              PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Good question.  How do you?  I'm not the one questioning their efficiency.

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                                 Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 What  does government control efficiently? That was the question, you provided a list of things they do but no proof that they are efficient.

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                                    PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    No, I do not know if they are "efficient" and I have no proof.  As with most entities, public or private, they can undoubtedly be more efficient.  That does not mean they should not exist or that the services would be provided more efficiently by the private sector.  Most of them would not even be undertaken due to the enormity of the task and lack of profit potential.

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      Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      you forgot to add that we hate freedom too.  If you think government has a legitimate role to play in society, then you naturally hate capitalism, freedom, and the founding fathers...
      
      ...Oh, and puppies. We hate those little bastards.

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         Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I'm sure you love freedom, you wouldn't be able to say the things you say without it. That does not mean you don't hate capitalism. Government does have a role to play, provide for our national defense and little else. Who could hate puppies?

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Who hates capitalism? We want to preserve it with the minimum regulations needed to assure that it delivers honestly and fairly the benefits it promises and is capable of for ALL Americans. Private prisons are a detriment, not a benefit (nothing wrong with privatizing the lawn cutting and tree trimming on the grounds of public buildings). Ditto for the current panacea--charter schools.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         "We want to preserve it with the minimum regulations needed to assure that it delivers honestly and fairly the benefits it promises and is capable of for ALL Americans."
         
         Ralph - one question: "Who decides?"
         
         And then your entire argument falls apart.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   What should I be an illegal immigrant?

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      Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Be what you want.

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   mikelongposted 11 years ago

   Through my brother's experiences in county and state prison here in California I have learned a great deal about the monetary corruption that feeds the system....  The incentives that accompany prison privatization put the freedoms and liberties of Americans in jeopardy... 
   
   Repair Guy spouts nonsense, but I think he would need some time behind bars to clarify his thinking...

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Private fire departments - if you can't afford to pay your bill or forget, should the fire department let your house burn down?

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      Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I did say government had a role, providing for the nations defense is one. Police and fire departments are others.

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      American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Knoly,
      
      There are already private fire departments, they are called volunteers. And no they will not let your house burn down

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   I am a socialist and I think government that is not controlled by capitalists is great, and thank them for the services I receive.

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      Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Don't thank government thank yourself, it was your money being used to provide the service.

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         PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Exactly!

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            Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I guess I don't understand your position. If its your money being used wouldn't you want to make sure that money isn't being wasted? Government does not manufacture anything that makes itself money, any money government has is yours and mine. Continuously funding government to waste our money is crazy, somethings are needed and most things are not.

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               PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I have no way of personally guaranteeing that my money is spent efficiently, whether I give it to the government or to a private charity.  All I can do is look at the results.  I don't have to worry about the water when I visit another state.  I can travel there on safe roads, using money stored in a bank account protected by the FDIC.  I rarely even think about these things when I go about my daily business, but I am glad they are there.

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                  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I guarantee your money isn't being spent efficiently. Government consumes totally. I doubt that any company would be interested in giving free lunches to students because there is no profit in it, but that doesn't make private companies evil. The mantra on the left is that capitalism is pure evil because it wants profit, do you want to make a profit? Are you evil? How many of the highways built went through peoples land using imminent domain? How many of the landowners were compensated at the going rate? Government comes closer to evil than does private business.

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                     PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You guarantee my money isn't being spent efficiently? How?  Besides, I already conceded that might be true.
                     
                     "Government consumes totally."  What does that even mean?
                     
                     "...but that doesn't make private companies evil."   I never said private companies are evil and I don't believe that.  I own one myself.
                     
                     "The mantra on the left is that capitalism is pure evil because it wants profit, do you want to make a profit? Are you evil? How many of the highways built went through peoples land using imminent domain? How many of the landowners were compensated at the going rate? Government comes closer to evil than does private business." You really sound ridiculous.  I have never said anything about capitalism being pure evil, and of course I want to make a profit and I make a living helping businesses make a profit. 
                     
                     With this last nonsensical response from you, it is clear that you are arguing with some imaginary liberal you've invented in your head.

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                        Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I am not arguing at all, you are a liberal are you not? This thread was started to deride privately run prisons as being corrupt and government as being the savior. It isn't hard to see that you have the same feeling as most liberals toward business so in fact to talk with one you may as well be talking with them all. Thank you for your time.

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                           PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           
                           That was a colossal waste of time.  I don't fit your stereotype so you assure me that I fit anyway, as though your pronouncement makes it so.  Never mind what I say; as long as you categorize me properly you can continue on in your little black-and-white bubble where subtlety of thought and careful consideration of others' beliefs is not required.
                           
                           So transparent.

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                              Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Its liberals who identify in groups, sorry if I lumped you into one.

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                  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Well if the roads are fine and safe, we do not need another infrastructure stimulus, good news

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                     PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     AV, I'm surprised at you.  While we do have great infrastructure in place, it does require maintenance to keep it that way.

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                        American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        PP,
                        
                        No arguement from me they need maintenance. I was just kinda poking at you because you said all the roads were fine. I was being a little sacastic

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                           PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           And I was giving you a little wink. 

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                              American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              

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    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    So glad I have servants. Nothing to do with me. Now leave me alone and don't bother me, and just let me bitch. I paid for the right to do so.

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       Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Bitch away.

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    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    Depends on who controls the government. Is the government running two wars and three proxy wars
    for the people, or for private oil and international corportations - profits?

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       Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know what do you think?

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       American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yea we are really rolling in that Iraqi oil, just coming out our ears

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    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    No doubt.

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       Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Cryptic, let me guess, you believe the U.S. is waging war to line the pockets of private companies?

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    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-23/just … s=PM:CRIME

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       Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       He was a democrat, how fitting.
       
       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ciavarella

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    lovemychrisposted 11 years ago

    Arizona now charges $25.00 to visit inmates
    
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/0 … zona-Style

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       John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       That is scandalous!

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          lovemychrisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          People say that whole immigration bill was all about building new prisons to lock more people up, make more money on the stock market...free labor,false credit for "doing something about crime", etc etc
          Jan Brewer has people close to her involved in the prison-for-profit industy.(google it)
          So, rather than save dying people with transplants, she chose to give her buds the money to lock people up. IMO, and USA USA USA

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