http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ … tence.html
Only in Canada can you go to jail for hate speech but not get punished at all for strangling your baby with your underwear and throwing him over a fence! What a country! The libs here would love this!
With that little bit of information, I don't see how one could second guess the court's decision. The woman's act was heinous, but it sounds as if there were psychological issues. Her punishment will be far worse than any court could mete out. She'll have to live with the knowledge of what she did for the rest of her life.
I feel as sorry for her as I am horrified by her actions.
"Naturally, Canadians are grieved by an infant's death, especially at the hands of the infant's mother, but Canadians also grieve for the mother."
The victim is the child... these libtards just do not get it.
Sad sad sorry world we live in.
She still got three years for it, suspended it maybe, but that isn't the same as a not guilty verdict or not getting punished at all! It will hang over her for the rest of her life.
As usual Lady Love is failing to actually read what she posts.
"Two years ago, for the second time, a jury found Effert guilty of second-degree murder, but last May the province's highest court decided the jury made a mistake.
In a rare move, the Alberta Court of Appeal overturned the conviction, replacing it with the lesser one of infanticide."
That would have been appropriate, John.
I think the 24? canadians had it right and more accurately reflect the feelings of Canadians, than that Judge.
"Two years ago, for the second time, a jury found Effert guilty of second-degree murder, but last May the province's highest court decided the jury made a mistake. In a rare move, the Alberta Court of Appeal overturned the conviction, replacing it with the lesser one of infanticide."
Soo 2 courts convicted her and the court overturned it!! They don't even want her to serve th 16 days for littering when she threw his body over the fence because it would be "mean"!!!
This is just unbelievable!!
What would you have them do? Shove bamboo under her nails?
Sure why not, it's not nearly as fatal as strangulation. At the very least, she should be serving prison time for the murder of her child!
I think none of us know enough from the piece published to formulate a valid opinion.
The article gives only the bare facts, mother killed child, nothing about her mental state or anything else needed to come to any conclusion.
She may be evil and worthy of all our contempt or she may be little more than a frightened child herself.
Agreed. Or either she should be in a psychiatric ward.
So is it the socialist position to decriminalize murder? Or is there a legal age for killing under socialism?
Well, hardly decriminalising, she still got a prison sentence didn't she?
OK, it was suspended, which I believe means that if she comes to the attention of the law again that suspension can be set aside and she sent to prison.
As I said to Disturbia, we don't really know enough to form an opinion.
Maybe you don't but I do! Walking free for murder after being convicted twice by 2 different juries in 2 different trials doesn't seem like justic especially when you can get jail time for hate speech!
Well I'll give you that. I keep thinking there must be something here that I'm missing. What kind of enviornment did this girl live in that would drive her to do such a terrible thing? I can't even imagine that kind of desperation, but still to kill your own child is just beyond my understanding. I'm a mother and my natural instinct is to protect my children at the risk of my own safety and life. I find this whole situation just more than I can stomach.
"As I said to Disturbia, we don't really know enough to form an opinion."
That doesn't seem to slow anybody down.
What in the flaming hell am I reading from you John? The crazy psycho murdered her child!! There's nothing to defend! She should be in jail for a life sentence!
A three year sentence for murdering someone? That's ludicrous!
And before you even start up with the "Well in an Anarchist's world...", courts would DEFINITELY punish this in an anarchist world with MUCH more than a 3 year punishment.
That's why I'm glad that I'm neither a Christian or an anarchist.
I don't have to fill my heart with hatred, instead I can put myself in others shoes and exercise compassion.
Have you no inkling of how traumatic childbirth can be for some women, in some cases literally driving them out of their minds and causing them to act in a manner that they would not otherwise contemplate?
How would a much longer sentence serve justice?
Tell me about your birth story John... It must have been terrible. If you aren't a women please don't tell someone ELSE that they don't know what childbirth is like.
The mercy is in allowing her to continue to breath while serving out her life sentence.
Are you familiar with the concept of post-partum depression? Trust me, it's no picnic, and my case was moderate at worst.
It doesn't seem to me the article contains enough detail to determine whether this woman is evil or merely sick.
Read the article and the thread... still not sure what it has to do with abortion...
Well I guess the idea is "post-birth" abortion, whereby the child is destroyed after the birth process, which really makes no sense at all if you think about it.
Exactly! Since in Canada abortion is no problem! So why wait to give birth and then murder the child when she could gave legally murdered him before he was born?
So the case had absolutely nothing to do with abortion... thank you, that's all you had to say.
Only that abortion is murder. You're welcome!
Good to know... I shall stop birth control right now and pop them out like pez from this point forward... Imagine the millions of innocent children my cruelty has slaughtered. I thought hubby was complaining for other reasons.
Good for you!
Ev er y sperm is saaaacred...
Ev er y sperm is gooooooood...
Figuring my age, I'm guessing I can get in at least 11 or so before menopause pulls me out of the gene pool... A nice round 15 is a good number... I'm going to have John be my labor coach too. Considering I will likely go completely out of my mind. And since I am a liberal, could someone have some duct tape and a dumpster handy....
Abortion came into it because the Judge based her arguments to justify her ruling on Canada's lack of Abortion laws, seeming to speak to her of the canadians willingness to accept the stress of motherhood as a good reason for mothers murdering their babies to be allowed.
I am glad my mother did not know that...
Orrrrrrr.... a horrible tragedy is being used as a political tool for something completely non-related. Hmmm...
So I assume that all cases where parents kill their children are now abortion cases... Good to know.
Maybe in Canada Mellissa... I don't know. I am not to keen on her legal mind using Abortion as a basis for rendering a legal opinion like this.
And I do consider Abortion murder.
But Abortion explicitly connotes aborting/ceasing a process or precedure... not taking the life of a child which is fully delivered and breathing on its own.
Two different things... the later is murder.
EDIT; Sorry Mellissa wasn't checking was rushing.
Thank you for agreeing with my original statement that this is not an abortion case, so it was manipulative to name the thread post birth abortion...
Edit: Sokay TM, it was actually just a little joke, no mean-spiritedness meant.
Recently a man was robbed in his shop.In defending himself he killed one of the robbers.
He wasn't prosecuted. I suppose you think he should have been, or is that level of stress allowable where a greater level of stress on a mother isn't?
Seriously John, stop.
I gave birth to four children with a total birth weight of a little over 27 lbs. (and a combined labor time of over 6 days) I did it with no pain medication at all. I might have been momentarily tempted to castrate my mate, but murder-especially of my child- was not really a consideration.
Whatever psychological issues might have existed (and I am sure there were some) please don't demean women by suggesting that the process of childbirth somehow drives women into murderous insanity. We have evolved past the point of snarling dribbling animals that bite whatever hurts us. AND even if we were animals... THEY don't kill their young because of the pain of birth.
I was not for one moment suggesting that the pain of childbirth should drive a girl to kill her child.
I was suggesting that the well recorded changes in a woman's mental state can adversely affect her, or do you not believe in post natal depression?
LMAO, I do indeed believe in postpartum depression... however it does not strike instantly after birth and is incredibly unlikely to have played a part in this particular case.
Maybe you should read that well-recorded information? First women are driven to madness by pain and then horrible semi-psychotic depression instantly hits them right after the cord is cut... Sounds horrible...
Glad your mother didn't know? Did she tell you she was looking for a reason?
I'm sorry, that's just funny. Do you think women search for reasons to kill their children? This poor woman, if she overcomes whatever issues drove her to this act will suffer immeasurably with remorse at things she can never undo.
Wait for it....
It's a setup to once again repeat the lie that abortion is murder. In the right-wing playbook, rule one is to repeat your lies until they are accepted by your dimwitted base as truth.
Mind you, I'm not Canadian, am I qualified to comment on this thread
Just reread the article and was struck by the last line -
"The appeal court said Effert should have been given the benefit of the doubt based on psychiatric evidence."
That evidence is laughable! All thats required is 2 doctors to say she was upset, and one of those doctors provides that opinion for a fee!
I've been upset. It didn't cause me to murder my children. She's obviously got something mentally wrong with her. Why didn't she just get an abortion early on? I don't know but I'm going to look deeper into this. It must be about her family. Why else would she feel she had to keep it a secret and then destroy the child? She's probably been psychologically abused her whole life by really twisted perspectives. I mean its wrong to have sex and then get caught by getting pregnant, but it's somehow OK to try to cover it up and commit murder... duh.
If this forum post were a Hub, I'd moderate it as deceptively titled.
The article is not about approving post-birth abortion. It's about a women under infanticide charges.
I guess you didn't read the article or the posts. She gave birth and then killed her baby. She was convicted twice of 2nd degree murder. The canadian courts unhappy with two jury opinions of her peers saw fit to free her reducing the charge to infanticide, basically allowing her to walk free as though she had a post birth abortion.
"strangling your baby with your underwear and throwing him over a fence! The libs here would love this!"
I don't understand how this can be allowed, when people get banned for "cussing".
Compassion and understanding.
Once you get the hang of it I'll stand on some boat somewhere and say "Mission Accomplished"
What I would like to know is wtf does a Canadian infanticide court case have to do with American politics?
It is nice to know so many people here are mental health experts with direct knowledge of this woman's state of mind and so legal culpability.
I'm going to get nailed to a cross for this one, but I think that's one of the problems of our modern society, we have too many mental health experts with a bag full of excuses and not enough people taking responsibility for their actions. I don't know anyone who hasn't had drama and trauma in their lives, but that doesn't give them an excuse to commit murder. If this girl's mind is that twisted that she can murder her own child and she doesn't know what she did is wrong, then she shouldn't be walking around in public because clearly she's a possible danger to anybody she comes across. OMG! I'm having a bad hair day, I think I'll go out and kill somebody!
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