Over $14 trillion in deficit
Approximately 99% debt to GDP ratio
Can you spell depression?
Credit rating downgrade
20% real unemployment
Gas prices skyrocket
Food prices skyrocket
Clothing prices skyrocket
1 extra war
Foreign policy? Really?
Lost 600 plus seats in congress to the joy of his party
44 million on food stamps
25 states suing over Obamacare
25% of mortgages now worthless
Fast and Furious
Please explain to me why any thinking human would vote for Obama again and try to do it without uttering the word 'BUSH'. That dog won't hunt.
I'm not sure but then again I didn't vote for him in the first place. I personally have a hard voting for anyone that has been in the military since they are supposed to be the commander and chief of the military. I don't understand how anyone can run something they don't understand. Sorry but I did vote for Bush because I thought he was the lesser of two evils compared to Kerry.
Ron Paul is the only veteran running for office in 2012.
Perhaps since we can't all agree it's time to move to a new breed of character? I personally believe our government has grown to Kraken sized heights. I am hungry for a change...not the promise of change. A true overhaul. Libretarian anyone? Atlas Shrugged anyone?
Gas prices are actually going down and mortgages became worthless under Bush not Obama. As you may remember, the Great Recession happened under Bush's watch that's why Obama spoke about, "the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression" during his run for office.
WE're militarily involved in at least 5 different countries, so it should really be considered "5 wars"
... from the peace candidate...
http://www.barna.org/culture-articles/5 … -candidate
These are some of the attributes that thinking people look for in a leader, and can, it appears, influence their voting behavior. Have a look over it, it makes for interesting reading.
It's a little early to wonder why a thinking person would vote for a democratic candidate. We don't know who the GOP is going to choose. They might choose a couple of idiots again.
Let's take a wee look at what the situation with some CORRECT statistics.
"Over $14 trillion in deficit"
First of all, you don't have a $14 trillion deficit. What you have is a $1.3 trillion dollar deficit and $14 trillion in debt. There is a very big distinction here you don't seem to have grasped.
So a corrected statement should read,
“Over $1.3 trillion in dificit”
In the year 2000, the end of Clinton's term the US budget deficit was... non-existent.
In fact, the budget was in a surplus of $236 billion. Not only that, but the 10 year surplus stood at a phenomenal $5.6 trillion.
Move on 4 years, end of Bush's first term. The budget deficit now? $565 billion.
Ok, so take that off Obama's grand total? That's 1.3-0.565= 0.735 trillion!
Now, in fairness to President Bush he did manage to control the deficit, it didn't rise any higher than this during his second term.
So in conclusion to this point:
Obama has raised the deficit by 735 billion USD.
Has Obama raised the deficit level? Or have policies enacted by George Bush and other nations across the world impacted the US deficit level?
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ … eficit.bmp
That pie chart has calculated the relevant impacts upon the current deficit. They put Obama's contribution to the deficit at 16% roughly. I am going to give this a 10% margin of error and take the worst case scenario here. Say Obama was 26% responsible for the current crisis:
26% of 0.735 = 0.147 trillion.
Obama is possibly responsible for an exaggerated maximum of 147 billion of the 1.3 trillion deficit. (bear in mind I also added an extra 10% onto Obama as a very generous margin of error. The same could also be applied to George Bush and I would welcome someone in this forum to do so if they wish.)
So, where does that leave us?
There is no scary $14 trillion deficit. The USA has a $1.3 trillion deficit.
Obama is at most responsible for 735 billion of this. However, once we apply common sense, economic history and some statistics (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ … rs.html/#1) it appears he is barely responsible for $147 billion of the current deficit. This is a fraction of the number you originally imply.
Onto debt now.
The USA now has $14 trillion of debt. It is a lot. But how much has Obama contributed to it?
http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-R … l-Debt.gif
Take a while to study that graph. President's Regan and Bush Senior are responsible for 8.2 trillion of it, Bush Junior another 3.8 trillion. So Obama inherits a 12 trillion debt bomb, a disintigrating economy and a crippling deficit from fiscally spendthrift predecessors.
14-12, we have at most 2 trillion of debt during Obama's presidency so far, but we cannot assume this is directly caused by him yet.
“Approximately 99% debt to GDP ratio.”
This is bad, but why are you trying to blame this ALL on Obama? Don't say you aren't because your post insinuates this. You do not mention any other candidate or reference any other timeframe.
Besides, nations can cope with Debt to GDP ratios well up to 200%. Look at Japan, UK during WW2, Soviet Russia in the early days. All these nations are or where military or fiscal superpowers. Debts can be paid off. Most Americans combined asset values are much less than their debts as well. I mean, a newly wed couple in America takes out a $150'000 loan for a house with a $20'000 deposit. With no other assets they're running a 750% debt to asset ratio.
“Can you spell depression?”
Do you know the way out of a depression?
Look back on history. The Great Depression, it took Keynesian economics and government spending to lift the economy.
Credit rating downgrade
Whose fault is this? Obama or the financial institutions in the 8 years under Bush? Have a think about that.
If I recall correctly Bush left Obama with an unemployment level rising to 10.1%. As far as I can tell we are seeing improvement. Choppy improvement, but the recovery will take time. Something both the political left and right agree on.
“20% real unemployment”
After searching in vain for historical graphs (Or any meaningful graphs on this topic) I found only news reports. They don't give indication of what the rate was in the months and years preceding Obama and the Recession so I cannot comment on this point.
“Gas prices skyrocket”
If you believe in the “invisible hand of the free market” then you can't blame Obama for this. The control of oil prices is largely determined by OPEC.
“Food prices [[and] “clothing prices”] skyrocket”
Not living in America I can't really comment on this and have no statistics to argue against it. (Rule of thumb, don't try arguing a point unless you know what you're talking about)
“1 extra war.”
I agree with you here, no nation should have gone into Libya. What they have done, air strikes and bombardments from a distance is marginally better, however it is still not an ideal solution. The UN was established for a reason.
“Lost 600 plus seats in congress to the joy of his party”
I don't understand this one. Your Congress in total has 535 representatives. It is mathematically impossible for him to lose more than 600 seats.
“44 million on food stamps”
And you'd rather we didn't help those people?
25 states suing over Obamacare
More information here would be great if you have it.
25% of mortgages now worthless
Can you give me evidence supporting this claim? I can't find any online or in any news source I have checked. I'm not doubting your claim, just need an article I can use to see the point with.
Fast and Furious
Some gun operation I am unfamiliar with. I won't argue this point.
Once again, not entirely familiar with this. I won't argue this point.
Opinions supported by facts! How rare and refreshing. Welcome to Hubpages.
+1, even as an uneducated fool that dropped economics early on within my studies. Keynesian economics, was to me at least, common sense.
Thank you everyone who agrees with me here, this is one of my first posts on Hubpages, so I appreciate the support.
Haha, I'm sure you are far from an uneducated fool Hollie. Common sense is a far more valuable commodity anyway!
And it's a great post, substantiated and without distortion. A great reflection on modern, and recent, economic history.
I'm afraid what Earnest says is true, you will at some point be declared an anti christ and unpatriotic.
OR EVEN THREATENED WITH HELL AND DAMNATION IN CAPITAL LETTERS.
Capital letters are waay more true than other posts.
An anti-christ? Haha, I'm a christian myself. (Ableit one that uses his brains)
Unpatriotic? Fairly. Nationalism died halfway through the 20th Century. Some people just haven't buried her yet. (And the body's starting to give a bad smell to politics!)
Thank you very much Earnest.
Are most people on here degree holders or students? What kind of demographics are they? In fact, I'm probably hijacking a thread by asking these questions here.
A lot of them hold an ODS degree.
It probably relates to the subject broadly, as you will see someone will drag pretty much anything to the religious and political forums.
Hopefully you won't find all the posters hear to be fanatical, just most of em.
Range of qualifications, I can bring to mind a Phd biomedical scientist on here. However, qualifications aren't really important, I've met fools with degrees and geniuses without. That's life.
Hi again, Marsden4.
My observations support my notion that most posters are self-proclaimed experts who believe emotion driven partisanship trumps facts. There is a high reliance on anecdotes and hasty generalizations. Those who dismiss facts that do not support their perceptions of the world vastly outnumber those with degrees and a respect for providing data to support their opinions. But there is an upside. Those who are looking for a discussion based on facts can ignore most of the threads in the political forums.
Once again, welcome to Hubpages. Bring on the facts. We already have enough partisan emotion.
It's refreshing that somebody actually posts facts at HP for a change. I have been here for 1 yr and have stayed away from the Forums. Then the powers that be hinted maybe this affected hub scores, which apparently are meaningless anyway. It is sad we have only 2 parties to choose from for President. But I appreciate your research, and do think many cannot understand problems allowed to build up for 8 or more years cannot be fixed in 3. Especially by a Congress determined to shut the country down, just to spite our POTUS. It's sick stuff. If everyone would just stop the partisan nonsense and work together to solve the problems, instead of wasting time insulting the other side, it would be much more useful.
Wow! You have the nerve to post things on here that are accurate?
You do realise this is well out of order?
I agree with you Mardsen. Aside from his points, when I cast my vote for Obama (and I did), I was voting (like everyone else) for the candidate that I felt would best represent my values while in office.
No one candidate can ever please all of the people all of the time. No one candidate will be able to represent your values successfully 100% of the time either. I voted because the platforms that I wanted to see realized were what Obama stood on.
Now, the question remains, why would anyone vote for him again? Probably because the campaign promises that he has kept FAR out weigh the promises that he has compromised on (for whatever reason), or broken (for whatever reason).
Actually that dog did hunt. Bush spent more time on vacation in Crawford than paying attention to what was going in with the economy. While it has not been the greatest, I'm sure there are many people suffering terribly right now, but to blame it all on a person who took over this giant mess and has kept us in some manor of stability it just ignorant.
Can we say prescription program, with no way to pay for it?
Can we say starting not one, but TWO WARS, with no exit strategy or way to pay for it?
One can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long before it starts to collapse.
If McCain were President and things were the same, would we be discussing this? McCain's plan was basically to continue doing the same as Bush. So where would we be now? It's a spooky thought.
He's the one I've been waiting for.
I know you would love to go back to Republicorp, but it's not going to happen.
We got WISE to that DISGUISE.
No taxes= No jobs= More rich people= Take it from the middle class
Right Wing= War on women= War on Working people= War on Wages= War on Quality of life for any but the Uber Rich
GOP= Bad News for America!
Let Obama have his policies...then you will see. I already have seen my federal taxes be cut by $400.000. And so have most of you!
I have seen people rise up against the Rich, something they would never do with Republicorp brutes in charge= They better realize their time is OVAH!
In the 2012 elections, most people will be asking themselves, "Am I better off now than I was four years ago?" I'll have to answer "no." My youngest daughter can't find a job, my middle daughter's fiancee can't find a job, my oldest daughter's business is struggling, and one of my sons-in-law's hours have been cut because of the economy. I'm not saying this is all Obama's fault - he had a lot of help - but at some point, we have to stop blaming Bush for everything that's wrong with the U.S. According to Biden, and even to Obama himself, they now "own" the economy. I want someone with some business experience in the Oval Office. I also want a financial conservative, which Bush wasn't.
Habee, we have a financial conservative in office. I'm afraid it's killing us, they have no plan B, cut, cut, cut. But no growth I'm afraid. Contracting economy.
I have to agree with Hollie. Obama is quite a bit more conservative in financial matters than people think. I have lots of family members having hard times as well. But it takes time to solve problems once they get this bad. I like Biden as a person, and admire the fact that he has a son in the military. Most in his position would send everyone's else's kids off to die, but *gasp* never their own! He has a way of putting his foot in his mouth. He's been to these war torn countries many times, and is probably being underutilized.
I also get the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that whatever Obama tries to do his opponents go out of their way to restrict him. It appears that they are not so interested in the well being of the people and the prosperity of the country, but cheap political point scoring. When so many countries are in so much trouble, the left and right should be an irrelevance. Survival of these awful times should be key.
Yes, the R' have openly said they just want Obama out, and that's that. They vote down anything he suggests, even if it's good. And I'll admit, I don't like what he's doing in some matters, such as getting involved with Libya. And blaming our issues on Bush is old now. But it is a truth that you can't fix a mess many years in the making in one term. Basically, now it's a disgrace in the US to be a "one term President", when I don't recall that in former times. It's the rich one percent who actually did pay more in taxes when Reagan was President in the 80's causing lots of this, and racism. People in the US like to pretend it's not here, but it is, mostly in the deep South and in the Midwest. On the coasts we are used to people from all countries, though I have a friend from South Carolina who is surprised about how it's still racist in the North, just more quiet. Obama made mistakes, especially with his financial advisors. But many countries are having problems, and to a certain degree I think economics goes in a cycle.
I think your right about economic cycles, both the crisis in the US and indeed Europe have been brewing for years. It just amazes me that so many people cannot look at all the factors that have created this mess, objectively. Instead, they'd rather vote in the bunch that, in part at least, have created the problems, while completely ignoring the fact that they would do the same all over again, their policies haven't changed.
I know the US are the UK are very different economies, and to compare them to broadly would be a mistake. However, I think the US are being given a taster (by looking at the UK) of the effects that Conservative fiscal policy are having on our economy, it is not pretty! And, just as Marsden4 pointed out, it was a combination of Keynesian economics and govt spending that hauled the US out of the depression. I imagine at that point in history though, there was enough political will to enact the necessary changes. Today, I fear that the Republican machine does not have the will, only the desire for power, whatever the cost.
Well, I disagree. You have to hold people accountable for what they do. The Right-Wing mentality--be it Repub or Blue-Dog-- got us into this mess, and giving them back any more power will destroy what's left.
They had a nice long run. We want something better-- for all of America, not just corporate America. We see how they operate now...worse than ever. They don't deserve to be rewarded for acting like spoiled brats!
No, you're right they don't deserve to be rewarded. I think the problem is though at the moment they do have some power, the way they try to block Obama on whatever he tries to puts forward, highlights, to me at least, their utter disregard and concern for their own citizens (Causing problems as opposed to trying to solve them)
Yes...they actually ARE what I was called for 8 years: Anti-American.
Ever consider it has nothing to do with Obama but his disasterous policies? On what basis does anyone claim this man has a clue? What experience? Obama defenders can't refer to the man's background because that's a losing proposition. They can't point to any accomplishments. They can't even refer to his college record to prove his genius. I don't blame any of them for not wanting to admit they supported an empty suit because he sounded good and they disliked what they had. As a person, Obama might be a great guy. As a leader, he's a deplorable failure.
As you haven't mentioned which policies specifically you're referring to, I cannot comment, your statement was far too vague. You seem obsessed with his background and past, Is today not the most important consideration? Just think, if he was able to pass certain bills without undue obstructionism, who knows, some of them may actually be of benefit to you. Why don't you consider that.
The only thing I'm interested in this president passing is his signed resignation over to the American people. I wouldn't obstruct that at all. The sooner the better, as a matter of fact.
So, in other words, it doesn't matter whether he gets things right or wrong, you just want him gone.
Considering he's done nothing right and, from what I've seen so far, I don't expect he will in the future, IMHO, the country and the American people would be far better off if he resigned. Of course, then we'd have to deal with Bucket-Mouth Biden as president. That would be like trading the village idiot for the town idiot. Either way, you get an idiot.
"Considering he's done nothing right and, from what I've seen so far..."
Nailing Bin Laden and Awlaki?
"That would be like trading the village idiot for the town idiot. Either way, you get an idiot."
As we used to say in grade school, "Takes one to know one."
Nailing Bin Laden and Awlaki?
I've given Obama credit here on HP for giving the GO order on Bin Laden. The military did the rest. Same on Awlaki.
As we used to say in grade school, "Takes one to know one."
That's a little beneath you, Mr. Deeds. I'll take it as you're just having a bad day.
Did you think Bush was going to personally get Bin Laden himself? He was too busy vacationing in Crawford, he took more vacation time than any President in American history. And he kept rebates coming to the American people to shut them up and keep them happy in hopes they wouldn't notice all the terrible policies.
I have to admit I've learn one thing. An Obama supporter cannot defend the ONE without uttering the Obama mantra.....BUSH
Especially LMC. To her, everything from the economy to her latest hangnail is Bush's fault. Just ask her and she'll dream up a conspiracy to try to prove it.
Here's one: average, on the dumb-side guy has a powerful father, who pulls strings and people to help his kid. Kid is selected president, by the Fla Supreme Bagger Court, and kid uses his skills while in office: Cheerleading.
"Get him dead or alive".......few months later......"He's not on my radar."
No way would anybody believe that!!
Aaaah, great, yet another one of your conspiracy theories on the FL Supreme Court. Just can't handle it or give it up, can you. Perhaps therapy would help you get past the BDS, LMC.
The same could be said about the Republican voters. How many Obama conspiracy theories have their been, re: citizenship, communisim, intent on destroying America, etc. etc
At this point, the citizenship thing doesn't matter unless, of course, it's proven he isn't a citizen. Then all he signed would be stricken from the books as invalid. I've never been a big supporter of of the whole birther movement but I must admit it would be great to see Obama doing a "perp walk" in handcuffs.
As for the Communism or intent on destroying America, these aren't conspiracy theories, Hollie. Obama is a Socialist (redistribution of wealth) and it's obvious he hates America and is trying to change it, thus destroy it.
"Obama is a Socialist (redistribution of wealth) and it's obvious he hates America and is trying to change it, thus destroy it."
Ridiculous. Obama is barely even a liberal Democrat, let alone a socialist.
Just curious, why do you think he "hates America?" Our country has been quite good to him. Why would he hate it? That's double ridiculous.
Respectfully, Mr. Deeds, I think Obama is a Socialist and I think, given the chance, he would physically rip the Constitution to shreds.
He may have been born here (I'll let ours fight that fight) but that's about as close to being American as the man comes. I don't think he's an American in his heart like you and I.
He doesn't believe in this country's founding principles and, yes, I think he hates America. He want to change it into some Socialist utopia that we both know could never work because Socialism has never worked anywhere it's been tried.
You're entitled to your opinion, however misguided it may be. You would be more convincing if you explained which of his policies or actions you disagree with and why rather than expressing your opinion that Obama "hates America" and is a socialist. I commend your attention to this video by Robert Reich, Clinton's Secretary of Labor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM5Ep9fS … r_embedded
Perhaps because not mentioning Bush would be ignoring eight years of foreign and domestic policy in the United States...
It's too hard to explain without bringing Bush into it. When Obama had Bin Laden taken out, the first thing he did was call Bush to tell him. They are inter related now no matter how you look at it. Sure, it would have helped if Obama had more experience. But if you take that line, then you have to say a person can't send people to war if they weren't in the militiary, can't make descisions if they didn't run a corporation (and why aren't large corporations paying more taxes, the little people bailed them out)? That's why President's have advisors. One person can't be good at everything, and we needed a diplomat at the time to smooth over Bush's cowboy attitude towards the world. Obama leaves much of that to Hillary anyway, but is trying to make us look less like bullies.
Thom Hartmann called Bush a sociopath today, and said there is a study which shows that the leaders of Wall Street are actually, by the legal definition, mentally insane.
Psychopaths, like Beck, are allowed to spew violence-inducing crap. What kind of a mind THINKS that way? a sick one.
These people are the dregs of society, and you put them on a pedestal......UN-believable.
Hello, answered the Op without mentioning Obama, just the issues that thinking people think about when voting.
http://www.barna.org/culture-articles/5 … -candidate
It wouldn't matter who is President now, it's too late, a total collapse of the dollar is inevitable. Even if 100% of US citizens were taxed 100%, the national debt still could not be paid off. There are already businesses "In the US" not accepting the dollar. The past 10 years China and Japan (among several other countries) have been working to replace the United States dollar as the Global Reserve Currency with China's currency, and as soon as that happens "WATCH OUT!" Our dollar will be worthless, even the wealthy will be broke, unless they have prepared for this by replacing their US dollar with a strong currency or commodity that will not fail such as gold, silver, etc...
Some may think this cannot happen but it is already happening, and as soon as our dollar is no longer the global reserve currency, the US creditors will expect the US to make their payments with something other than the dollar, ie gold, silver, etc. and from what I understand (granted it may be a rumor) Fort Knots has no gold in it, also on 9/09/2001 200 Million in US Gold that was being stored in a vault under the world trade center tower 1 and was taken out in Dump trucks and disappeared, which would be worth 1.1 Billion today, although there was 20 million that was recovered.
My point is "If what I am saying is true, and the US dollar loses its GRC status, and we do not have enough gold, silver, platinum, palladium, and/or Rhodium to soften the hit, the re-election of Obama will be the least of our worries. We will be doing good just to have a meal.
Sorry to sound so gloom and doom but we all need to start preparing because the collapse of the dollar is real and going to happen, the only question is how soon.
I've heard that about gold too! Bush Senior involved.
And I think you're right on all of it. That's why the players are heading out of dodge. They are already set up in other countries when the sh*t hits the fan.
Maybe then people will see them for what they are.
I would not vote for him. I did not in the first place. I really like how you put forth the facts with little opinion. The facts speak for themselves!
Of course, those of us that, as thinking individuals, do not support the Obama agenda will now have to be reported to Obama's 'Watch Dog' website. I reported myself already. I admitted that I do not believe in global warming, I do not recycle and as a part-time job I harvest endangered hardwood trees to make guitar necks. I guess they'll be coming for me soon.
Obama kept most of Bush's foreign policies, and all the Homeland Security stuff. My son was studying different political systems back when he was in HS, and I ordered literature on Communism. In order to get a book I wanted, written in Cuba, I had to order it from Australia, and from there it took a ridiculously long route to get to NJ. I did the same for a few other books he wanted to read (and was interested in a way myself), so I'm sure I've been on every FBI and CIA watchlist for years.
Do candidates that intend to run against Obama...have to be reported to Obama's 'Watch Dog' Web Site?
Uh-Oh...better add my name to the website list...just for asking such a sarcastic question...in the first place
Global warming is a scam to sell carbon credits, the earth is going through a cycle that we cannot slow down or alter in any way, all we can do is act as irresponsible as we can, and turn all endangered hardwoods into guitar necks;)
Joseph Stiglitz on "Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%" (Vanity Fair) & Analysis of GOP Budget.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZC1HVRz … re=related
don't forget part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8s1p7Nd … re=related
I've waited two days now. Are you going to rebuttal directly to my evidence?
If you decline to present counter-arguments I will assume you accept all evidence presented as correct on my part and that your original list was greatly flawed in its content.
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