With this years batch of Republican Campaign attack ads one thing has become apparent to me. If Jesus came back and ran for the office of President of the United States, not one Right Wing Christian Conservative would vote for him. Everything I have ever heard about Jesus points to the fact that he was a Liberal. Jesus fed the hungry for free, he healed the sick with out a deductible or even medical insurance and he disliked the money lenders. Clearly, Right Wing Christians hates their Liberal Jesus and everything he stood for.
Apparently, you haven't heard that Rick Santorum declared himself the Jesus candidate who is, incidentally, going to be raiding every woman's medicine cabinet in order to steal her birth control!
lol Deni, claiming to be Jesus and being him is a tad different unless you chose to believe everything your told by those who make their living lying to you. Mr. Frothy is still pissed over the fact that his wife dated an abortion doctor before she met him. He doesn't actually disapprove of abortion, he's just a jealous asshole who holds a grudge.
I wouldn't vote for him, he ain't a citizen.
That's what we need, a president rumored to be the son of god. LMAO
#ifjesusran4president he would get the atheist vote but not that of the christians
ifjesusran4president the GOP would be attacking him for having the health care plan Obama care was based on
ifjesusran4president the Koch Suckers and most of the GOP would be blaming him for the Solyndra deal.
ifjesusran4president the Army of God would be planning to kill him
ifjesusran4president The GOP would be attacking him for his position on taking care of the poor and elderly
ifjesusran4president Newt would accuse him of being a liberal who can't be trusted with health care and other core Republican values
ifjesusran4president Fox News would attack him for being a liberal bent on destroying America
ifjesusran4president Bill Clinton would be his choice for VP
ifjesusran4president he would be blamed for everything the Bush administration had done to this country
ifjesusran4president Sarah Palin would still vote for Newt
ifjesusran4president The bankers would be spending billions to defeat him
ifjesusran4president Perry would be attacking him for trying to feed the poor
ifjesusran4president the conservatives in this country would be protesting another liberal candidate
Republican Jesus is the Jesus right wingers believe in. Not the other socialist Jesus that fed the poor, healed the sick, chased the money changers and turned the other cheek.
What about the Big Butter Jesus?
Better watch what you wish for. If Jesus did come back, he'd get rid of the Internet, then where would you be?
Hmmmm, I can't believe it's not the butter Jesus, lol
I get the feeling that if Jesus were 1, real and 2, came back, he would embrace the internet not destroy it, The desire to control and censor the internet lies with those who fear an organized intelligent populace, ie the GOP and those who control what Christianity has become,,,churchianity
The phrase "Jesus protect me from your followers" needs to be rewritten to "Jesus protect me from your pseudo followers".
Oooopps I had promised myself to never do another political or religious comment on Hubpages so I better duck out of here before I get hit by a bible from the overzealous that can quote every word, but seem to have a major reading comprehension problem.
Only a fool will pick a fight with a stranger.
WD, while it is true that the actions of most Christians speak louder than their words, a few words from these people is a reliable indicator of their future actions. It is possible to know a lot of people with out ever having met them. This indicates that it is possible to know a complete stranger and that disputes your idea of who the fool is.
JS I know that feeling well, I live in the bible belt and many down here actually believe the thumping of their bible will muffle the hypocrisy of their words and actions. Such is life below the Mason/Dumbass line. I will say that the bible must be a miraculous book as a quick skimming of it has made most in this area experts on science, geology, paleontology, human sexuality, archaeology, biological evolution, American history and basic human decency. Reading this book has replaced the years of study that were previously required to become an expert in each of these fields. Shucks a person is no longer required to finish high school in order to become an expert in any of these fields.
This is interesting. I snatched it off of your profile, " I will confine my posts to hubs from now on and all are welcome to join me there . . ."
When we give in to compulsion, we lose integrity. I have been there and done that, so I know the drill. I, too have made the same assertion. This is hypocrite to hypocrite.
I am a believer and you are right.
Jesus introduced the concept of separation of state and religion, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's."
It is the Church's job to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for orphans and widows and that sort of thing. The right wing conservatives are right. This is America and it is not the job of the Federal government. The rich Republicans need to put their money where their mouth is and use their wealth for a Godly purpose . . . not hoard it for themselves.
Their methods of moral improvements go back to the first Republican president, Abe Lincoln. Sure, abolish slavery. Then, turn all of the slaves loose without a contingency plan for the transition. Fast forward to Ronald Reagan. Sure, the federal government should not pay for mental health programs and hospitals, the private sector should fund these efforts. Turn all of the mentally ill loose and lock the door behind them without a contingency plan for the transition. Do you have clinically mentally ill homeless people walking around your town? We do in Florida.
It is time for the private sector to step up. Christians, can you take a hint? The Church is the private sector.
It won't hurt if atheists pitch in, too.
lol WD, I had added that tid bit to my profile back when I was still trying to keep articles posted on hub pages. I finally got tired of having my work unpublished with no explanation and moved on to another site. I still sop back here every month or so to see how my old stuff is doing and have no intention of posting another hub. Besides if I hade posted this in a hub it would have been removed as being duplicate material. The idea for this post started as a hash tag on twitter.
But in all fairness you are correct that I did state previously that I wouldn't post to these forums again. If that makes me as bg a hypocrit as most Christians pride themselves on being, so be it.
I do find it interesting that you are defending the seperation of church and state when it comes to helping the needy. Do you also support this idea when it comes to following the Constitution of the United States? Do you agree that religion has no place in our Government or in our public schools? Do you support the efforts of the freedom from religion foundation to return America to her secular roots?
You state that it is the job of the church to feed the hungry, clothe the naked ect. Do you agree that the church should be allowed to pick and choose those they help or should they care for all in need. The church and most in it seem to feel that they have the right to ignore those who have differing beliefs. They refuse to help those with a different sexual orientation. Who is to care for the people the church chooses to ignore out of their interpretation of christian love?
If we waited until every detail was worked out in advance and a concrete plan was in place before trying to improve things, blacks would still be considered property, the mentally ill would still be living in ancient assylums, and women would still be second class citizens. Having a plan in place is no guarantee that it will be followed. The Constitution and Bill of Rights of this country made it clear that religion was up to the individual and we see how well the church has followed that plan.
The church has had 11 years to step up and take the lead in helping the needy in America. Bush's faith based inititive put them at the forefront of this. The problem is that Bush's political screw ups have greatly increased the number of people needing help while reducing the money people have to give. Are you suggesting that we should simply let those the church refuses to help or is incapable of helping suffer?
Lets take a look at health care for a second. I came across an estimate that it woukd take about 13 billion dollars a year to provide basic health care for every person in this country. Seems like a lot of money until you realize that we spend almost 40 billion dollars a year keeping pot smokers behind bars. Privatized prisons are a darling of the GOP and they will not give up the kick backs they get from this industry. God's Own Party is more intersted in personal profits for themselves than they ever will be in following the teaching of Christ.
We do pitch in. Just not with religious requirements attached.
"Republican Jesus is the Jesus right wingers believe in. Not the other socialist Jesus that fed the poor, healed the sick, chased the money changers and turned the other cheek."
I believe in Jesus Christ - period.
I'm a Christian Conservative and I believe in the Jesus that "fed the poor, healed the sick, chased the money changers and turned the other cheek." Not Republican Jesus nor Socialist Jesus. He was, is, and will always be above all that.
Jesus is above all the political garbage we humans are flawed enough to engage in. Yes, I'm one of those flawed humans.
Jesus would also be critisized for keeping the company of prostitutes, republicans would be suspicious of his family values cos he was'nt married and there would be insinuations about how he spends too much time with those male disciples. Being a conservative and believing in the message of Christ is illogical, there was no one more liberal in his time than Jesus, he also said the rich man should give away all his positions and that the whealthy would never get to heaven.
"Being a conservative and believing in the message of Christ is illogical..."
Josak, I'm a Christian in that I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and that he lived, died for our sins, and rose again to live in Heaven. He will be back one day. No, I'm not predicting when.
I'm Conservative in that I live a quiet, "conservative" life and I believe in low taxes, small government, and adherence to the Constitution.
I believe we should help those who NEED it, not those that are too lazy to do it for themselves.
I also believe in a capitalist system and that a person should work for what they have and want rather than a Socialist system where everyone looks to the government to provide for them, a government that couldn't it's own butt with both hands and a map.
You can take all that for what it's worth but I think you're trying to pigeon hole all Christian Conservatives into one group as I've made the mistake of doing the same with all Liberals. It won't work for either of us.
Josak, it is amazing how adept most Christian conservatives are at justifying their un-Christ like attitudes and behaviors. The so called Christian Conservative GOP stands against everything their savior stood for, and this is what they are most proud of in their lives.
By the definition of the socialist party and the basic principles of socialism Jesus would have been labelled a socialist.
Too often Christian claim to be followers of Christ on one hand and on the other they state they can't be held responsible for their refusal to follow these teachings simply because they are human. That is a load of crap and a weak assed cop out. They have no intention of following the teachings of Christ and simplly like to wear the stick on label that reads....Hello I am a Christian.
And I think your making a mistake by trying to label Jesus as anything other than Jesus unless you're somehow trying to justify your own Socialist beliefs.
I do my best to follow the teachings of the Bible, knowing full well I'll never be perfect in that attempt, but try I do. In doing so, I've been slapped figuratively as well as physically. I've turned the other cheek many times only to have it slapped as well. I don't turn the other cheek anymore. Maybe that makes me less of a Christian than I should be but I also believe there's a time to stand and fight for what one believes in or the other side will just run you over. That won't happen anymore.
Welabel people according to what they are. jesus believed virtue was found in the simple working man, so does the socialist. Jesus believes whealth corrupts and turns your from your purpose, so does the socialist. Jesus believed that greed and covetousness were bad for all people so does the socialist. Jesus believed in healing the sick and helping the poor regardless of whether they could afford it so does the socialist. Jesus believed in the intrinsic value of every person and that every person was redeemable if given the chance, so does the socialist. In summary Jesus wandered as a pauper with very little whealth helping the poor and downtroden and scorning the whealthy and greedy he encouraged free generosity. Most importantly Jesus said that we should not judge lest we be judged in turn and that only god knows the value of a man, I would adress that to you comment about those who you judge "too lazy to help themselves". Jesus was a socialist.
I'll stand by my comment about those who are "too lazy to help themselves" and ask why are you so sensitive to that portion of what I said?
And I'll say the same to you I did to Stump Parrish, I think you're making a mistake by trying to label Jesus as anything other than Jesus. He's above all this political BS. That is, unless you're somehow trying to justify your own Socialist beliefs.
I'll leave it to you to deal with between you and your god.
Do not presume that simply because I didn't comment on one thing out of many you said that I am somehow sensitive about that subject. I suppose you buy into Newts accusation that every person who is out of work is lazy, correct? Weren't you the one speaking out against labeling people? What happened there? Oh that's right, the rules for Christian can change anytime they want them to. I have been out of work for over two years and the prospects for employment worsen each day, I am 53 years old and do have some heath problems. The number of younger people with a college education are more likely to be offered a job washing dishes than I am. I have 15+ yrs experience in the restaurant business and have run a couple of Golf Course kitchens. I can't even find work in a Burger King and with the GOP created and driven recession, more and more restaurants are closing. Now are trying to tell me I'm lazy and basing this on the fact that there is no work available?
Your savior might be above all this political BS but his followers thrive on it. I disagree with you that I am making a mistake labeling Jesus as a liberal. All available evidence supports this label and if he is above anything it's the pettiness of his followers. Judging from reactions when you challenge their use of it, the religious are virtually indistinguishable from the drug addicted.
Now you stated you read my profile and if that's true you should be able to remember that I am an atheist and there fore you comment about leaving me to deal with it between myself and my god was just a tad asinine, don't you think? And yes, you could construe that as me applying another label.
Where in that did you get "I suppose you buy into Newts accusation that every person who is out of work is lazy, correct?" That's not what I said.
I've stated people "too lazy to help themselves" and now I know why are you so sensitive to that portion of what I said. No, Parrish, I did not mean nor did I say people who are out of work through no fault of their own. It's unfortunate what you're going through. My sister-in-law was going through the same thing until about a month ago when she finally found a job after almost two years of looking. All I can say is keep your head up and keep trying.
I did not state that I'd read your profile, Parrish, nor did I know you were an atheist. You have me mistaken with WD Curry 111.
As a side note about looking for a job: I made this suggestion to my sister-in-law. Perhaps it could help you. Are there any businesses in your area that supplies food, furniture, and/or equipment to the restaurant industry? With your knowledge and experience, perhaps you might find something there. Also, have you thought about consulting. Again, your knowledge and experience might lend itself to you finding a job doing that or possibly opening your own business doing it.
I've been in the same spot, Parrish. As you are well aware, it's not easy and scary as hell but I do hope you find something soon. Good luck.
LH, I am not labeling Jesus as anything. His teachings and supposed actions speak for themselves. Why is it that you assume I am a socialist? Can you honestly say that your Christ was a conservative Christian?
How many times did Jesus say was the limit for turning the other cheek or any of his teachings? I don't recall any preset limits on anything.
Look at the stable of Conservative Christian candidates for the GOP nomination and show me why they consider themselves to be Christian. Every talking point they have is in direct conflict with the teachings of Christ. If Christians were worry about anything other than wearing the label of Christian, they would be die hard Democrats.
You state that you are a Conservative in that I live a quiet, "conservative" life and I believe in low taxes, small government, and adherence to the Constitution." Do you support the entire Constitution or do you pick and choose the part you like in the same fashion most Christian Conservatives pick and choose which parts of God's words they really, really, really have to obey?
How do you think your Jesus would handle meeting homosexuals or women who have had an abortion or doctors who perform them? Do you honestly think Jesus would stand in public with a sign protesting gay rights? Do you honestly think Jesus would stand outside an abortion clinic harassing women ? Do you honestly think Jesus would blow up abortion clinics, kill doctors or fight to have laws passed condemning those who practice abortion? No Christ wouldn't do that only Conservative Christians sink to that level.
"Why is it that you assume I am a socialist?
I wrote: "And I think your making a mistake by trying to label Jesus as anything other than Jesus unless you're somehow trying to justify your own Socialist beliefs." You're the one trying to label Jesus as a Socialist. I simply wondered if you were doing so to justify something like your possible Socialist beliefs. If so, that is between you and your god, not you and I.
"Can you honestly say that your Christ was a conservative Christian?"
I don't think of Jesus Christ as either as I believe He IS above all this political BS. Judging from what I've been taught, I would venture a guess that He thinks the whole thing is silly.
As a Christian, I try to live within all things the Bible teaches. Unfortunately, I fall short sometimes, far short other times. The great thing is God is a forgiving God. As for the Constitution, I live within the laws of man as well.
"How do you think your Jesus would handle meeting homosexuals or women who have had an abortion or doctors who perform them? Do you honestly think Jesus would stand in public with a sign protesting gay rights? Do you honestly think Jesus would stand outside an abortion clinic harassing women? Do you honestly think Jesus would blow up abortion clinics, kill doctors or fight to have laws passed condemning those who practice abortion?"
You're asking me to get in the mind of Christ and I can't do that. As for me, I've stated several times my thoughts on both homosexuality as well as abortion and, no, they don't comply completely with what's taught in the Bible. I'll answer for that when it's my time. That being said, I won't sit here and let you try to pigeon hole me into what you think a Christian Conservative is. Perhaps it's time for you to back things up a bit.
"No Christ wouldn't do that only Conservative Christians sink to that level."
This Christian Conservative has done none of those things either, Parrish, so I have not sunk to that level. Nor will I lump you into the same groups that are primarily Liberal or Socialist as I won't sink to the same level you have in doing so to me.
Labels won't get any of us very far—it's like saying a bucket of sea water IS the Atlantic Ocean.
And since when do our ideals have to divide us? Can't we work together for the common good and still tolerate other people's ideals that guide them?
I have no problem with conservatives wanting to preserve their traditions and values—as long as they are willing to tolerate other's values and traditions.
Nor do I have a problem with liberals who want to see progress in terms of economic and social justice—as long as they don't condescend to think they have the only truth in life.
The obvious premise of this forum is to point out the hypocrisy and duplicity of human nature—but shouldn't it be asking why Americans are no longer willing to work together and follow the golden rule in America and the world?
WoW, I agree that labeling other is a waste of time, some of the time. By using the label of liberal, I saved myself the time that would be required to type out the lengthy definiyion of liberal and the numerous ways the teachings of Christ fit this ideal. However, you must remeber I didn't apply the label of Christian conservative to these people, it was self applied. I was attempting to point out the inherant hypocrisy in the Christian conservative label. There was nothing conservative in the teachings of Christ and there is damned little of Christ's teaching in right wing conservatives.
I think if you look at the failure to work together the majority but not all of the problems today are found on the right and in the GOP. Christians today have convinced themselves or been convinced by others that they are right in everything they think, feel, or demand. Once one has convinced themselves they are incapable of being wrong, a certain amount of inflexibilty is bound to appear. The GOP has spent the last 3 years doing everything it can to keep Obama from making any progress at solving the pile of crap he was handed. When the followers continually watch their leaders refuse to comprimise on anything, it simply re-inforces the mentallity to do the same. I am not however stating that the religious right was previously willing to accept one thing that might be considered a comprimise. It is their way or the highway and another problem is, they aren't even willing to allot the money to maintain the damned road.
These people have convinced themselves that comprimise is on the same level as a sin. They absolutely refuse to accept the lesson that taught them to love thy neighbor. They are the ones who live for the chance to label vast segments of our society as unworthy of their love ot care. They have no problem twisting the teachings of Christ to accomplish this goal. The biggest problem of all is that very few of them have any clue about what the original words in the bible actually stated nor do they have any interest in finding out.
I have repeatedly listened to the equivilent of 8th grade drop outs argue with biblical scholars about what the bible says, Nothing makes these people more of an expert on any subject than never having done any real studying of that subject. How else can you explain high school drop outs knowing in their heart, they know more about history, geology, biology, science and for that matter, every subject under the sun, than those who have spent a lifetime studying these subjects?
Religion by it's very definition rquires a certain amount of inflexibility. Too many people today consider this to be one of their best attributes.
OK here is the root of our disagreement, I am talking about the conservative christian coalition in general terms and you are taking it personally. Either you failed to grasp the general nature of most of my comments or you presume to speak for all of Christianity. Which is it? If you are incapable of stepping outside of an issue and discussing it rationally, you are wasting my time. Now if you believe that all Christians share your thoughts about everything, I would have to say, you are wasting my time. If you lack the ability to discuss a theory or philosophy with out accepting it as your own, you are wasting my time.
Are you wasting my time or not?
This is the first you've mentioned the "conservative christian coalition."
When you address your questions as How do you...? Do you honestly think...? one just might think you meant them personally, Parrish, so it was you that failed in your presentation.
"If you are incapable of stepping outside of an issue and discussing it rationally, you are wasting my time."
If you're incapable of saying what you really mean rather than posing your questions as if attacking me personally, you're wasting mine.
'Now if you believe that all Christians share your thoughts about everything, I would have to say, you are wasting my time."
You're the one trying to get me to say what Jesus would do and I've stated, "You're asking me to get in the mind of Christ and I can't do that." and never once have I said nor do I believe ALL Christians believe as I do. I'm beginning to think you're wasting my time. I can't speak for All Christians, Parrish. Just this one - me, myself, and I - nor have I tried.
"If you lack the ability to discuss a theory or philosophy with out accepting it as your own, you are wasting my time."
My philosophy is simple when it comes to religion, Parrish. I've stated it on HP before but, for your benefit, I'll state it again.
Religion is a very personal thing, Parrish. I worship the way I do and you should do the same or not at all. That's your choice as mine is mine. In the process of us both doing that, I won't persecute you for your beliefs and I expect the same from you. It's really just that simple for me, Parrish. I don't cram my beliefs down anyone's throat but nor will I stand by and listen to someone put them down. I would expect nothing less of you or anyone else.
NOW, am I wasting your time, Parrish, or shall we continue?
I think we should just leave things as they are. I sort of understand your position and I think you can say the same for mine. I am not looking for all people to agree with me as this make as much difference to me as it appears to do to you. As to your religious position thanks for clarifying it. I have been a member of hupages for a while now but as I mentioned I have been away for quite sometime.
In regards to my attitude about the so called Christians, you should realize I am surrounded by holier than thous who live to spread the hate. Most of my comments are general in nature and not directed at anyone person. If that changes it usually becomes quite obvious who I am addressing.
Peace to you and yours and best of luck in the new year. I am sure we will bump heads again in the future and as long as it doesn't get personal I wont take it as such.
"I am surrounded by holier than thous who live to spread the hate"
It's only been in the last few years that I've become more active in my church and trying to lead my new family the way I have. I was once very much into the Native American way of religion, much to the aggravation of my then wife and my mother. I've been told more than a few times I'm the great grandson of a Southern Baptist preacher and that he was probably spinning in his grave because at the time I was a Presbyterian. I know what it's like to have "holier than thous" cramming their way of worship down my throat. That's why I don't do it now.
Peace to you and yours as well, Parrish. Good luck on finding a job. I hope you found my suggestions on that above and that they help.
LOL I can see how the native American way of life would tend to irritate the Christians in your family. I first got interested in their way of life after reading the book Hanta Yo. I know that this book wasn't totally accurate in its description of the beliefs and lives of the Lakota people but it did get me interested in learning more about them.
I do enjoy getting to know and having intelligent conversations with a wide variety of people. Some of the best I've had are with religious scholars. It is nice to be able to get past the distorted view of religion most people have. I really wish more Christians had the desire to learn the truth about their religion. I often get the feeling that most are so insecure in their faith that they feel admitting even one thing they believe is false, will cause their entire belief system to crumble. Too many people accept the word of uneducated people as gospel and never consider that they may be feeding them false or faulty information. Most people refuse to think and speaking of thinking, here's a great quote that makes the reason the majority of people think the way they do, as clear as it can be. I see examples of this on a daily basis here in Upstate South Carolina.
We think so because other people all think so; or because – or because – after all we do think so; or because we were told so, and think we must think so; or because we once thought so, and think we still think so; or because, having thought so, we think we will think so…Henry Sidgwick
Will as Longhunter knows, politically I'm in total accord with Stump's POV and a lot of my life has been spent as someone who can't abide dogma or orthodoxy—religious and political.
Nevertheless, I do recognize the insight of a wise statement about making judgements:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye"
We Americans and we humans are still stuck with the ultimate question. How are we going to work together for a sustainable life if we only focus on what divides us? And if we can't work together, we will certainly sink together.
(Lh- Did you get a chance to listen to the On Point show?)
I agree, Wizard. We're playing right into the politicians' hands by fight amongst ourselves rather than focusing our attention where it's needed, on kicking every last one of these insubordinate employees out on their ears. Then we need to send new ones to Washington, making sure they understand they work for US, not the other way around.
Please note I did not say send all Republicans. That would be boring as hell.
WoW and Lh, the problem here is that while Congress has about an 8% approval rating, very few of these people will be replaced in the next election. Most people feel that the problem is with everyone but their favorite representative. The rest of the problem is party loyalty. Keeping one's party in office is more important than the future of this country. Take South Carolina for example. SC has been a GOP stronghold for over 3 decades and in all that time our representatives have managed to keep us almost dead last in education, We have a higher unemployment rate than the national average, Domestic Crime is higher here than most places in the country, Drunk driving is higher here than in most of the country and the list of problems goes on. The people of this state will not even consider a change and are convinced things can get no better. Great job for the GOP representatives in this state. The most recent example of what keeps us dead last in most areas is what our governor has decided to do with a budget surplus. Nicky Haley has decided that due to having this extra money, she should cut millions from the school system that ranks dead last in this country and spend this and more money reducing corporate income taxes and the state income taxes for the top 50% of earners in SC. The fact that corporate income taxes in SC are among the lowest in the nation is besides the point.
No wonder our Governor is at the top of the list for the VP position for who ever wins the GOP nomination. She also spent a couple of million fighting voter fraud even though there has never been one case of voter fraud in this state. The only thing these so called officials have to do is mention God at least once during every public speaking engagement and they get re-elected.
No way, the rightwinger would consider Jesus a dangerous and radical collectivist. We can't have our guy hanging around excessively with the poor and afflicted, now can we? These guys would not recognize Jesus or any reasonable fascimile thereof, if he jumped up and bit them in the nose.
If Jesus does actually make that long awaited return visit, I hope he comes back as a black man. That should make determining who is actually a Christian a lot easier and will cut the line at the pearly gates by 3/4. I'm sure St. Peter will be grateful.
I might remind you that Jesus came the first time as a Jew; during his lifetime, he adhered to no particular religious, political, or social standard. His actions angered many people on many levels; if Facebook had existed back then, his would have been the public page with zero likes and several thousand hate messages. Unlike certain politicians today (cough, cough...Rep. Lamar Smith), though, Jesus wouldn't have disabled comments.
It is personally interesting that few notable socialist governments in history have been profoundly encouraging towards individuals' choice of religion. Also, there is the issue of the basic premise that socialism needs to survive: the premise that man is inherently good. Jesus taught us exactly the opposite.
I respect your bravery (?) for posting your thoughts on the issue; but you might consider clothing them in less inflammatory sentences.
OK, so Socialist governments didn't encourage freedom of religion. Hmmm, It appears they were based in part on the version of Christian faith that is so prevalent in America today. The Christian faith alive and well today doesn't promote individual choice of any kind. Individual thoughts of any kind will send you to hell according to most in the faith.
Now why would I want to concern myself with the feelings of those who seek to force their will upon the world? Do those in the christian faith deserve treatment that differs from their treatment of women, blacks, homosexuals or those of a different faith? I personally dont care how many xians I piss off anymore than they care about anyone who manage to think for themselves.
Honestly, it seems you've encountered a rather...erm...aggressive branch of counterfeits who used their religion as leverage to throw hate at others. Please take the time to reassure yourself that they aren't, in any way, shape, or form, following ANY example that Jesus would provide.
I call myself a Christian; I wear skirts and (sometimes) put my hair up; but I know that I (as a woman) am particularly special to God, that I am no different than anyone of a different skin color--and most of the time inferior, that another person's choices are not my responsibility, and that I don't have all the answers.
Perhaps you should interest yourself with a small, rather old, rather "conservative" denomination called the Bible Holiness Church. Sure, we have moral teachings based on statements made by God (or on general principles inferred from the Bible), but the most important part of life isn't obeying the rules, it's living the way God has designed for us to live. Which means some of the people connected with the church don't have a problem, say, wearing pants in certain circumstances. Others do. The whole point of the matter (and yes, teachers, ministers, and church officials all encourage this) is to be REAL with God, to ask him questions, to understand His opinion, to be fair to everybody. Even if you want to piss them all off.
I find it disturbing that your posts are mainly based on attacking the Christian faith, when it seems that skeptics/agnostics/atheists are the most vocal about the need for "free thinkers." Yet, when a free thinker decides to research validity of Scripture, the proof that Jesus rose from the dead, or the possibility (oh, horrors) that evolution was NOT the source of all life, he is decried as having dropped several IQ levels. Why is it that Christians are portrayed to the rest of the world as idiotic bigots?! Blargh.
Lissa & Parrish, pardon me but I'm going to stick my nose in here.
Lissa wrote, "Why is it that Christians are portrayed to the rest of the world as idiotic bigots?!"
Some of that is the fault of Christians because we have some within our faith that want to cram it down the throats of others as if it's the only true faith. To us, it is. To others, it is not.
When we as Christians say Christianity is the only true faith, it's like slapping a person of another faith across the face and makes them just as mad as it does us when they say it to us. It's the same with atheist.
One thing I don't understand is why atheist spend so much time trying to disprove something they say doesn't exist. Maybe Parrish can answer that for us as I was told yesterday he is one.
Lissa, I know you're new to HP and I've had some discussions with Parrish. Perhaps if we come at this as a discussion, leaving the anger and condemnation out, we can come to an understanding. Each person has their reason for believing the way they do. Lets come at it from that stand point and see what happens.
Lissa. Don't worry I know that there are plenty of good and decent people with in the Christain faith. I call several of them friends. I'll give you an example of one of the biggest problems I have with the majority of so called Christians. I have a friend from myspace who is a respected proffessor at a religious college in the south eastern part of the country. He is adored by his students, respected by his co workers and those in his community. The reason for this is the 20 years he has spent studying the acient languages the bible was written in and the origins of the Christian faith. On myspace he is ridiculed and attacked by his fellow Christians. The reason foe the difference is those on myspace know he's gay and those around him don't. If his employer discovered he is gay he would be fired. He would lose the respect of his students and community members and his words and answers about the Christian religion would be ignored and dismmissed as lies.
These fine up standing people actually believe that if he were to announce his true sexuality, 20 years worth of education and research would suddenly become invalid. And, this makes perfect sense to them.
Thank you for the invitation to explore your particular denomination but I have moved beyond the need for religion in my life. I do agree with you that a lot of the problem with the Christian faithful is how the rules of the local church or preacher have become more important than the words of Jesus to these so called Christians.
The level of hatred some of these people seem to need within themselves, to make themselves, feel good about themselves, is sickening to me. No matter how much good they may be able to do in the world, they have a need to balance that by causing harm to those they dislike. Take homosexual marriage for instance. If two gay people were to get married, how would it personally affect the rest of the people living in their town? If you're being honest you would have to admit that it affects these people in no way, shape or form. If they weren't so damned concerned with what is going on in the personal lives of every living person in this country, they wouldn't be affected at all. These people have an unquenchable desire to be offended and won't stop until they find their next reason to be just that.
Now I am sorry but one fact that I use a lot is that the 8 of the top ten most religious states in this country are among the ten least educated states. They are also all Republican strongholds. An example of this in action is a conversation I had with a close friend of 30+ years. We were discussing the age of the planet and he repeatedly insisted the correct age of the planet earth is around 6000 yrs. When I asked him what he was using for proof of this statement, he answered...I believe in God and that is all the proof he needs. I brought up the carbon dating and geological evidence that disputes his claim and his reply was...his Sunday school teacher who has only a high school education had informed them that the practice of carbon dating is unreliable. While I will admit there is some controversy over the reliablity of this form of testing, it is in no way off by several million years. He places a higher level of reliability on a 60 year old woman who never went to college than on the scientists who have spent a life time exploring and learning about a variety of subjects.
An additional problem with this is that once a Christian accepts the story that the scientists are wrong about the age of the planet, they must be wrong about everything they state. Take global warming, he dismisses this as a hoax and the same can be said for most Christians and Republicans. Scientists search for evidence and then attempt to come to a conclusion based upon what they have discovered. Christians tend to start with a conclusion and then search for and accept only the evidence that supports the pre-determined conclusion. Which approach do you prefer to use when trying to prove a point?
Living a life based upon faith is fine as a personal choice. As LH pointed out. too many Christians feel that if it's good enough for them then by damn the rest of the world had better get in line behind them.
You mentioned your preferred denomination of Christianity and this brings up another bone that sticks in my craw. There are over 2400 seperate denominations of Christianity in the world and all of them differ in some form or fashion. Why should we and how can we base our laws and country on something no two Christians seems to be able to agree on. Christians like to point out that they represent the largest segment of our population and yet, if we broke this down to individual denmoninations, atheists would out number every one of them. The only time you people can agree on anything is when it come to holding elections. Then and only then are Christians in the majority. The rest of the time they are dismmissing the rest of them as not being true Christians.
Now not all of this is the fault of the members of these churches. They have put their trust in the person standing in the pulpit to teach them and lead them. Here in SC these preachers love to take out full page ads in our local newspapers condemning homosexuals and others they dislike. Very few Christians seem to be willing to question what their preacher tells them and this gives these assholes free reign to attack anyone they personally dislike. I have heard from hundreds of people who have never knowingly met a homosexual, how much they hate these people. How does one come to hate something they have no experience with? Allit takes is for those they blindly trust to tell them they have to do this to get to heaven.
Sorry but when I was looking for answers about religion, this is the type of people I was getting these answers from. It didn't make sense to me then and it sure as heck doesn't today. Sorry that this ran on but I figured I might as well answer a few questions that LH had here rather than post two seperate remarks. Peace to you and yours, Stump
PS, Don't worry about how your comments come across and I figured you were speaking out against my beliefs and not me personally.
Here is another prime example of the problem with so many Xians in this country. This 16 year old girl simply stood up and defended the Constitution of this country. She is getting viscous threats of rape and death from the loving Christians across this country, Her state representative has publicly denounced her as evil and again, all she did was point out that the school was in violation of the laws in this country. Then again most Christians actually believe that the laws of their personal God supersede the laws of this country and have no problem breaking these laws when it suits them. I would really like for someone to show me the passage in the bible that teaches Christians that the proper course of action when a 16 year old girl stands up for the laws of this country, is to threaten her with brutal rape and murder. You see, the problem here is that these people actually feel justified in acting like animals. No worse than animals as animals don't threaten to rape and kill another simply because they don't like something they did.
IT'S CHRISTIAN LOVE IN ALL IT'S GLORY A WONDERFUL THING TO BEHOLD?
I could not agree more Stump.... First of all he is a radical Middle Easterner, that alone would stop them dead in their tracks!
I think you are on the money with this comment. Most would put him on a cross all over again. Remember voting and giving your money to politicians is going to swing them into Godly results. How about some truth like none of this money has paid off but they took it any way, so send some more. How come we have not tried to petition our Government on one single issue that would improve every persons life? Why do we need these politicians who create the poor, the weak and the helpless? Oh yea I remember why! So after Church you can feel good and return to being like everyone else in denial that are life is nothing but a crime. In the defence of the Church I know that most prefer to sit on the fence and honestly, every church I have ever visited has never made a claim of being a part of the Conservative movement or Politics. In fact I do not know anyone who claims to be one. My guess is that most of these people are not even in church on any given Sunday.
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