Blatant Voter Fraud in Georgia

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   SparklingJewelposted 11 years ago

   ?????can you believe this
   
   http://ronpaulflix.com/2012/03/blatant- … R.facebook

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Although I was unable to access the Paul video, this sounds like voting official fraud, not voter fraud. This is an important distinction because "voter" fraud is rare because there is no financial incentive for anyone to vote fraudulently. The real problem is that too few people bother to vote. Voting should be made easier, not harder. The current GOP effort to require photo I.D. for voting is a transparent effort to suppress voting by the elderly, students and minorities who they believe are likely to vote Democratic. Shame on the GOP.

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         Eric Newlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Everyone over 18 should have either a driver's license or state ID. I don't see how that could possibly be discriminatory.

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            Eric Newlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Not "should have" as in "too bad if they don't" but as in "I can see no conceivable reason why they wouldn't have" a valid ID. Especially if they're receiving financial aid, Medicare, or other state benefits. I'd think the demographics you mentioned would be more ID-savvy than the general populace.

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            Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Why?  I have neither.  Have not had one for over five years.  I do not want one!  So I should lose my RIGHT! to vote?
            
            Maybe it should be a privilege to vote?

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               Eric Newlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I guess my main point is I still don't see how such a policy discriminates against one side of the political spectrum. There are hyper-religious people who believes social security numbers are the Mark of te Beast and survivalists who live off the grid. That's about as fringe right as you can get. But if you're a college student chances are you have to flash some proof of ID just to function in everyday life.
               
               Again, I'm not weighing in on whether it's right or wrong, just whether it's (sigh) yet another evil right-wing plot.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The Republican Party is conducting a state-by-state campaign to impose voter I.D. requirements and other voting impediments. The Democrats are opposing these bills that have been rammed through a number of state legislatures without producing a shred of evidence that fraudulent voting is a significant problem.
                  
                  The real problem which everyone should be concerned about is the damage done to the democratic process by the Super-Pacs spawned by the Citizens United decision by the U.S. Supreme Court. As David Gergen said recently, the electoral process has become "a kind of card game for billionaires."

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                  Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  There is no right wing or left wing,  you just have an angry bird.  (I have been waitin to use that pun!)
                  
                  This law will disenfranchise the poor, minorities, etc....
                  
                  I am not allowed to have an ID, they refuse to spell my name correctly.  I only capitalize the first letter of my name, I am not some fiction in capital letters.  So technically the only ID anyone is showing is that of a corporate fiction!

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                     idratherbeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     And in todays times how easy is it to get a phony id?

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                        Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        That would be fraud,  not interested

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            Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You don't even need those. You can use a piece of mail with your name and address on it.

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            habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I agree. I had a discussion about this last night at dinner with my two liberal dem pals from Indiana, and even they agree. They suggested that people have a one year warning that such a law would be enacted, and that the photo IDs should be free. That would give potential voters plenty of time to get their ID. Sounds reasonable to me.

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            idratherbeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's a hardship for older retirees who never had a driver's license or any form of picture id. If they are handicapped and expected to wait on lines for hours to get a photo id, they are or can be left out of the voters mix. Many find it hard to get out for a doctor's appointment, much less an unnecessary visit to the DMV for picture id.

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               habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               With my dem pals' plan, the older voters could have their IDs made at the voting place, before the law goes into effect. My community also has a senior citizen bus that carries seniors around town for free, including voting sites. We have another bus that anyone can ride for $1. This should make it a lot easier for people to get an ID. For example, let's say a citizen shows up to vote in a primary and doesn't have to have a photo ID. He/she is told that before they can vote in the election, they need an ID. The ID is made on the spot.
               
               I am totally for voter ID, perhaps because I'm used to it here in GA. I do think, however, that getting the ID should be easy to do, and it should be free.

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                  idratherbeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  My research show's your showing up and not having a photo id not true. Apparently you have to have two forms of bills with your name and address on it. Then you fill out the form and they mail the form to your proven address. Then you sign it and mail it back. After it is recieved they contact you to get your photo id made. This is a long and drawn out process I would think? Not to mention, would have to be done well before voting begins to get your id.

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                     habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Huh? I'm talking about a POSSIBLE plan to get a photo ID in the future. If one is already registered to vote in a state where IDs aren't yet required, this plan would be an easy way for voters to get an ID to fill upcoming requirements.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Some states charge as much as $20 for a state voter I.D. Others provide them at no charge. The $20 amounts to a return of the poll tax which was outlawed by the Voter Rights Act. Even if there is no charge a state voter I.D. requirement is an impediment for some people (elderly) who don't drive and have no access to public transportation to get to a Secretary of State's office to get an I.D. The requirement is an impediment to voting justified by a non-existent voter fraud problem. It is a transparent attempt to discourage what the GOP views as likely Democratic voters from voting.
            
            Moreover, the topic of this thread was the chicanery by the GOP party officials in Georgia who apparently didn't follow their own party rules to the chagrin of Ron Paul supporters. A voter I.D. requirement would have no bearing on this controversy.

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               Aficionadaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               
               So why did you introduce that point in your initial post?  Others have been responding to something that you brought up.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Sometimes it's hard to keep these discussions on track.
                  
                  I brought voting fraud up to point out that the thread topic was titled improperly. When I made my initial comment I hadn't been able to access the video, and I wasn't sure what the problem was. I recalled from memory that the Ron Paul supporters had complained that they were treated unfairly in Georgia. Since then I was able to watch the video. It confirmed that the video had nothing to do with voter or voting fraud. Moreover, Habee pointed out that Georgia already has a voter I.D. requirement. Therefore, what happened in Georgia had to do with the fact that Gingrich supporters in the local GOP who were running the primary somehow apparently disadvantaged the Paul supporters. This had nothing to do with the non-existent voting fraud that the Republicans have been bleating about all over the country.

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                     habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     My first reponse was to Evan's post that stated a voter needed only a piece of mail with name and address, which isn't true for GA. I guess we all kind of got "sidetracked."

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                     Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     How can the Georgia example NOT be an example of vote fraud? People voted, and the GOP did what it wanted anyway.
                     
                     That's fraud. People spent time and money voting.

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                        Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        What happened in Georgia may have been fraud, but it was not "voter fraud" which is the phony excuse used in the current GOP campaign to suppress potentially Democratic voters. What happened in Georgia according to Ron Paul supporters was unfair, imporoper or if you wish "fraudulent" treatment by the GOP people who were running the Georgia primary or caucus or whatever it was. According to them the procedure was more like the recent "election" in Russia.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It is important to point out that it is not the voters that are committing the fraud.
         
         Thus, as Ralph said, it is not Voter Fraud.
         
         It is Vote Fraud.
         
         Kudos.

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            Eric Newlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            However, some vote fraud is accomplished by bribing people to give fraudulent votes at multiple polling places. That's a financial incentive.

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               Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I agree, but it's peanuts compared to what's going on.

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            SparklingJewelposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            ...semantics I hadn't thought about...just getting information out

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               Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I totally agree. I made the same mistake when I talked about other Anti-Paul vote fraud in other states.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Upon thinking about it more, it really is Voter Fraud.
         
         It is fraud upon those who wish to make their vote count more than it is.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            ??? Your meaning isn't clear. My understanding is that the skulduggery was on the part of the people running the primary or caucus or whatever it was.
            
            To me "voter fraud" means somebody who votes twice, or votes although he is ineligible to vote because he's not a resident of the district where he's voting or pretends he's someone else. The controversy in Georgia had nothing to do with "voting or voter fraud." It resulted apparently from the fact that the GOP party officials didn't follow their own rules or in some way were not fair to Ron Paul. A voter I.D. requirement would not have prevented this controversy.

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               Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               The people running the program are still voters - and they switched votes towards their candidates.
               
               Thus, those voters performed voter fraud when, by their actions, numerous votes that would have gone to other candidates went to their guy.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  That's true, but voter I.D.s or lack thereof had nothing to do with the controversy. You are as hard to pin down as an eel.

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                     Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     why are we talking about Voter IDs?

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         Onusonusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         A false statement as usual, it is nothing more than the prevention of fraud in elections, and that is all. Nothing but sensationalizing in order to vilify your opponents.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You don't know what you are talking about, as usual and you don't bother to check out the facts. No one has produced evidence that voter fraud is a significant problem in U.S. elections.

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               Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Ohio, Florida...
               
               ... iowa, maine...
               
               ... georgia, nevada...
               
               They have provided a lot of evidence. The media just isn't talking about it.
               
               Ben Swann has been doing a lot of work towards the vote fraud issues, but you already called him loonie.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Where is the evidence? Produce it if you can.

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                     Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Easily, I just did a show about it.
                     
                     Maine Vote Fraud was well documented:
                     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FDeee9Df7U
                     
                     Georgia Caucus Screw Overs:
                     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBI67s748dU
                     
                     Iowa...
                     ... I don't really need to produce evidence for this one, do I?
                     
                     South Carolina Vote Flipping was rampant:
                     https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_wWkfs … edit?pli=1
                     
                     US Virgin Islands:
                     The media almost always reports who wins the straw poll, and ignores who wins the delegates........... except in the one case that Ron Paul wins the Straw Poll legitimately.
                     
                     It's well documented, it's rampant, and it's on a wide scale. It's ALL against Ron Paul.
                     
                     The election in November will be a COMPLETE fraud.
                     
                     If *Insert non-Ron Paul Republican* beats Obama, then they won't actually be the desired candidate.

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               habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               There's been voter fraud in GA. The reports have been given a "true" rating on Politifact.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't say there was NO voter fraud. I said that it has not been a significant problem. What was the extent and nature of the fraud in Georgia? Was there enough of it to have changed the result of any election? Of course blacks were denied the right to vote for many years in Georgia. Correcting that took a new federal voting rights law. Now the GOP is proposing legislation in many states that would again deprive a disproportionate number of minorities and others of their right to vote.

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                     Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     It's Rampant. It's documented. It's wide spread. And it's ALL against Ron Paul.
                     
                     The election in November will be a COMPLETE fraud at this rate.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So what else is knew. This has been happening for many years now.

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      rave1432posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am from Georgia. I went to vote and I was going to vote for Ron Paul and I told the people I wanted to vote for him, I checked the correct box, and the only choice I had was Obama, they would not fix it so I did not vote for president. They rigged it so we had to vote for Obama or for no one at all.

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         habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I voted in GA, asked for a Republican ballot, and Ron Paul was on my ballot. You must have asked for a Democrat ballot, which explains why only Obama was on the ballot.

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2. 61

   Evan G Rogersposted 11 years ago

   Ron Paul fans are showing the country that
   
   1) we no longer are living in a republic. There have been many laws outlawing republic legislation, such as voting for electors and voting for delegates who then make the decisions.
   
   and that
   
   2) the democratic aspects of our country are so horribly corrupted it's unbelievable. Voting has practically lost all meaning.
   
   Together, this means that we no longer are a democracy nor a republic.

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3. 53

   Alexia22221posted 11 years ago

   i can believe this alright

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   Alexia22221posted 11 years ago

   sparkling jewel this is your second time writing this again i can still believe this alright lol

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   habeeposted 11 years ago

   In GA, you have to show a photo ID to vote. The state supplies these at no cost.

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   Evan G Rogersposted 11 years ago

   This might be considered self-promotion, but no one seems to get in trouble for the problem whenever I report it....
   
   ... but I'm currently broadcasting on teh interwebz about the recent massive vote/voter fraud in the US during these primaries. I'll just tell you that you can listen to it later if you check out "the Independent Bacon" (check my profile), and search for the March 17 episode.
   
   Georgia, Nevada, South Carolina, Maine, US Virgin Islands, Iowa, and others. They're all there. The evidence is there.
   
   This primary means nothing because the GOP is just stealing votes from Ron Paul and giving them to others.

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Okay. But would a voter I.D. requirement have prevented this? Not likely.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I don't care about a Voter ID requirement. I care about vote totals being accurate and un-biased. Why is everyone talking about a voter id?

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            Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Look at the title of the thread. Alleged "voter fraud" is the excuse for the GOP's national voter suppression campaign.

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               Evan G Rogersposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Title of forum: "Blatant Voter Fraud in Georgia"
               
               The OP of the forum: "?????can you believe this
               
               http://ronpaulflix.com/2012/03/blatant- … R.facebook"
               
               
               
               Voter Fraud and Voter IDs are only loosely connected.
               
               People are being defrauded of their votes, and you're arguing about semantics.

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   SparklingJewelposted 11 years ago

   semantics... some of you will do anything to divert from reality of the problem occurring across America...
   There is fraud occurring rampantly in this election and something big needs to be done!

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Can you cite any credible evidence to support your conclusion that voter fraud is "rampant?" From what I've read that's not true.

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      "There is fraud occurring rampantly in this election and something big needs to be done!"
      
      Here is a link to a report by the Brennan Center at N.Y. University Law School which concludes that voter fraud is rare in this country.
      
      http://www.brennancenter.org/content/re … ter_fraud/
      
      Summary
      
      * Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.
      * Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.
      * Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.
      * Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.
      * Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.
      
      Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare. Most citizens who take the time to vote offer their legitimate signatures and sworn oaths with the gravitas that this hard-won civic right deserves. Even for the few who view voting merely as a means to an end, however, voter fraud is a singularly foolish way to attempt to win an election. Each act of voter fraud risks five years in prison and a $10,000 fine - but yields at most one incremental vote. The single vote is simply not worth the price.
      
      Because voter fraud is essentially irrational, it is not surprising that no credible evidence suggests a voter fraud epidemic. There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck and killed by lightning about as often.

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8. 92

   habeeposted 11 years ago

   Latest poll on voter ID laws:
   
   72% for
   22% against

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That shows how ill-informed and/or badly motivated 72% of the people surveyed are.

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         habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Ralph, we're just going to have to agree to disagree here, as we often do. Really, I understand your concerns, but I think we can make it easy for people to get photo IDs. I don't see how people survive without them. I have to show mine quite frequently.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            We don't have to agree to disagree. You are an open minded, intelligent person.
            
            Imagine a 60 year-old woman or man of sound mind who does not drive confined to a wheel chair in an elder care facility. Can you see how it might be difficult for them to vote, let alone get a photo I.D.? What about an inner city single parent who doesn't have a car or driver's license but uses public transportation which doesn't pass within 5 miles of a Secretary of State's office. Can you see how it might be difficult for such a person to get a photo I.D., register and vote? What about someone who has moved recently and his or her driver's license address doesn't match his current residence? Can you see how having a current photo I.D. might pose a problem? Have you ever lost or misplaced your driver's license? Should that prevent you from voting? What about people whose driver's licenses have been suspended due to too many speeding tickets? Should they not be allowed to vote? 
            
            Can you cite any evidence that voting fraudulently has ever influenced an election anywhere? Will you concede that public policy should encourage eligible citizens to vote and that a lot of people don't bother to do so. If so, why do you think a voter I.D. should be required. In Michigan where I live,
            if you don't have a photo I.D. you can sign an affidavit certifying that you are who you claim to be and your current address. Your vote is set aside and subject to verification by election officials before it is counted.
            
            Did you read the Brennan Center report I posted above?

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               idratherbeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Ralph, I agree with all of your examples. This does nothing more then hinder many potential voters from voting. Many of which are of low income, retired, or handicapped and unable to easily follow a process that is flawed at best.

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   idratherbeposted 11 years ago

   Many women years ago didn't work outside of the home and had no reason for picture id. Many never had a driver's license. So to ask retired people to now have id, many in their 70's and 80's, can be very hard to accomplish do to their health. I'd venture to say many weren't able to vote recently as it can take weeks to get the id, and weren't aware of the id requirement.

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    habeeposted 11 years ago

    Ralph, Michigan's law sounds reasonable, with the affidavit. Still, I think getting IDs to the people you describe could be made possible. Of course, it could be expensive for the gov., which the far right isn't going to like.
    
    I think every legal voter in the country should vote! I have a good friend who has never registered to vote, and she's 56 years old. I hound her all the time about registering. You know I'm not an Obama fan, but something great that came out of his run for POTUS was the fact that so many people voted, including many who had never voted before, especially young people and minorities. That was great!
    
    Just wondering...does your community have free transportation to voting sites for those who don't drive? Mine does, and I think ALL communities should provide this service. Much of it around here is done by churches.
    
    As for whether or not voter fraud in GA has ever swayed an election, I have no idea. I know that in every election, there are always a couple hundred fraudulent votes cast in the state. After my mom died, her name was still on the roster. We had the same name, so I could actually have voted twice - once for her and once for me - if I hadn't needed a photo ID. Of course, I would never have done that, anyway.
    
    I agree with you that there's a fine line between voter verification and voter suppression, and in the wrong hands, this could be unfairly administered. There would need to be some serious oversight.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       "Just wondering...does your community have free transportation to voting sites for those who don't drive?"
       
       I'm not sure. My voting precinct is 3 blocks from my house. I think the two parties may drive voters to the polls. Not sure. Our public transportation system is not very functional.

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