Obama's Fast & Furious Executive Privilege

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Longhunterposted 12 years ago
In the wake of the ill-conceived Fast & Furious program, the death of a border agent Brian Terry, and hundreds, maybe thousands, of Mexicans being killed by the drug cartels using these guns, does Obama taking executive privilege on Fast & Furious suggest a cover up to you?

In your opinion, is he covering AG Holder's butt and/or maybe even his own?
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wish I could give an answer to this one. I would like to say that the GOP are doing this to distract Americans from all they do.
  
  1.) bringing down our country's credit rating
  2.) Holding hostage important bills that need to be passed
  3.) conducting frivilous investigations and talk about the President's birth certificate
  4.) Not fixing the credit rating
  5.) blocking anything that would help this country get out of the recession we are still in.
  6.) Politics as usual ... no clear and intelligent way to stop the bickering on both sides.
  
  Romney wants folks to go to *stand in line* and go to *the back of the line*!
  frightening to think he is the GOP contender for the White house
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is the reason you can't give an answer to the questions posted in the forum because you'd rather sidestep what some are now calling a cover up of Fast & Furious or because you obviously have an overwhelming, uncontrollable desire to bash the GOP at every opportunity?
  
  Never mind. By your post above, obviously it's both.
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is an action that even ardent supporters cannot condone. Obama is going to lose the election to his own soundbytes!
  
  Senator Obama defeats President Obama:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpwYh9TD6Nc
  
  I think at this point "other" could be the next POTUS.
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gary Johnson must be smiling
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "It is an action that even ardent supporters cannot condone. Obama is going to lose the election to his own soundbytes!"
  
  It does seem that way.
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jo,
  
  1- The credit rating was lowered due to the out-of-control spending in Washington and the fact that Democrats and Pres. Obama were not willing to make any cuts by being told they need to buy the credit rating agencies.
  
  2- I would like for you to point out what bills the Republicans are holding hostage. Harry Reid has tabled over 2700 bills in the Senate, who are the obstructers?
  
  3- You consider an investigation into the death of one of our border agents frivolous, go tell that to agent Terry's parents.
  
  4- Fixed the credit rating, they don't even have a budget for the last three years, and for the last two years not one Democrat has voted for the Obama budget, not one. Every time the Republicans put up a budget, talk about cuts, the Democrats say no and talk about tax increases.
  
  5- I already pointed out who's blocking what.
  
  6- I agree with you, it is politics as usual. This current group will never agree on anything.
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By no means was I directing my *frivolous* comment at the American Hero who lost his life doing what he was ordered to do. I was referring to the way the GOP wil side step any atempts in trying to bring college education interest rates down to a lower rate. The health care that needs to be fixed and more affordable. The social security program. As far as all the spending. I agree with you somewhat on that point. However, I know because of fighting two wars this has added to the debt problem. We needed to pour some money into programs so it would ease the minds of citizens like you and I. There may have been a run on the banks. I don't agree with the bail out of fannie and freddie or of those who less than a year later are giving themselves pay raises and taking an exotic vacation on some of the bail out money. Romeny wants everybody to get in line and stand there until he gets to you. Should you be non citizen you would need to go to the back of the line and wait. Reminds me of cattle. Romney is arrogant and sees himself as the *hero* for the 1 %. I don't agree with Obama on some of his polices. We will have to wait to see what comes from the investigation into Fast & Furious. Should the President and Holder be in the wrong. And it proven to be so, then we get him the heck out of OUR *The People's white house*.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for reminding us all about all the the things this forum is not about, Jo.
  
  In your opinion, is Obama covering AG Holder's butt and/or maybe even his own?
  
  The question a lot of people are now wondering - What did the president know and when did he know it?
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jo,
  
  I never said your comments were "frivolous", I respect everyone's comments, even if we do not agree.
  
  As for the college reduction bill, do you know why the Republicans voted no? I know the Dem talking point but that is not even close. The fact is there is a tax increase on small business, the same people the President claims he wants to help. Republicans are not for tax increases at this time.
  
  I agree about healthcare and wrote about an idea here in my hubs but expanded on it and presented it to several congressman. They like it but nothing will happen till next year, truly a shame.
  
  Obama is destroying SS, the payroll tax break has cost SS 3 years, in other words SS is going to go broke 3 years earlier and SSI disability will now go broke in 2015. Since the break was extended last year, the results will be worse.
  
  As for the war, no doubt it added to the national debt. We spent 2.729 trillion dollars in Bush's last year in office, and that included the cost of two wars. Obama spent 3.7 trillion dollars last year, we are not in Iraq, we only spend about 40% of what we once did in Afghanistan, the DOF is having its cuts, Obama brags he cut 2 trillion dollars from the budget, yet the CBO reported earlier this year we are on course to spend 4.2 trillion dollars, where did the money that we are not spending go? Should the spending go down when we are not spending for a war and with all those cuts?
  
  I do not agree with the Fannie and Freddie bail out, we should have stuck that check on Barney Frank.
  
  Like you I am not a fan of Romney, I really do not like the policies of Obama, we really need someone to step up. I just do not know who.
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  lambservantposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  AV, you are right, we have no good choices for president; and sadly, we haven't in many years.
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  Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Executive privilege is a way for the executive branch to avoid responsibility.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, in your opinion, what should be done about Obama doing it in this case?
  
  Do you think it's CYA on Obama's part?
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  Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Bush started it as an official "legal" strategy. Obama has continued it. The next President (after Obama, or Romney) will continue using it also.
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  Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course I've only heard the real reason why Obama is evoking Executive Privilege once. To protect operative from being tortured and killed by drug lords. And of course that little inconvenient possibility has not been mentioned on this forum at all. The Republicans want to distract Eric Holder from the job of protecting voter rights in Florida. Plain and simple, end of story, go home!...And vote republicans out of all of our branches of government so we can get on with the Peoples' Business again.
  
  http://washingtonexaminer.com/pelosi-ho … le/2500261
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The fact the you lend any credence to anything that Nancy Pelosi says tells me all I need to know about your grasp on reality.
  This is the same person who will tell you that you have to pass a bill to know what's in it.
  
  Apparently no one in The Party thinks there are any left out here with common sense. I say it's time to show them the error pf their ways.
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  Wayne Brownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry but withholding the documents when names can easily be blacked-out is not a viable excuse. Certainly the committee would understand that aspect. To date, some of the documents furnished to committee request have almost been totally blacked-out. There is nothing in the demand for information by the committee that says that information is to be made public so I really do not see that perspective as the basis for executive privilege. WB
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  Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The only reason Executive Privilege exists is to deny Congress sensitive information(that always leaks and gets people killed)they're not capable of keeping confidential. There's reason important documents are classified. One is to keep those documents out of the hands of Opportunistic Congressmen.
  
  "A classification level must be assigned to information when that information is determined to be classified. A classification level indicates the relative importance of classified information to national security and thereby determines the specific security requirements applicable to that information. Clearly defined classification levels are essential to an effective classification system.1
  
  The U.S. classification of information system has three classification levels -- Top Secret, Secret, and Confidential -- which are defined in EO 12356.2 Those levels are used both for NSI and atomic energy information (RD and FRD). Section 1.1(a) of EO 12356 states that:
  
  (a) National Security Information (hereinafter "classified information") shall be classified at one of the following three levels:
  (1) "Top Secret" shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security.
  (2) "Secret" shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security.
  
  (3) "Confidential" shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause damage to the national security."
  
  This a personal attack on Eric Holder in an attempt to block him from arresting the criminal Government in Florida! He needs to ignore these clowns in Congress and concentrate on protecting the voter rights of American People living in Florida. That's is a fact you can look up on any news site. Nancy Pelosi didn't make this up! People in Florida are under attack by Governor "CROOK" SCOTT. He feels he doesn't have to obey the voter rights act because he is above the law! And the paid puppets in Congress are trying to distract Americans away from the fact that crooks are blocking voters and trying to fix this election with their dirty tricks aimed at VOTER INTIMIDATION AND SUPPRESSION!!!
  
  http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/quist2/chap_7.html
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  Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds nationalist
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Oh, wait! (deep breath)
  
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  Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Billions of dollars used to fix this election is laughable. Considering Republicans have nothing but bad ideas to offer the Country; they have to buy this elections or try to fix it any way they can.
  
  This drastic measure of trying to get HOLDER out of the way is a result of Obama making Republicans heads blow up after his Executive Order to save Children. They are really desperate to get Holder out of Florida so "CROOK SCOTT" can wipe the voter rolls of most Blacks and Hispanics.
  
  They have Billions of dollars protecting their criminal interprize! So I guess you can laugh a little nervous laugh until Obama comes up with his next idea to make your heads explode again.
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We are already aware of that possibility!
  
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  Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That was really neat...So smart, and witty!
  
  The Republican lack of ideas is the main reason they have to resort to cute tricks in place of fact base responses to the concerns of American Voters. That's why they can't win! In spite of the Billions worth of dirty tricks, distractions and evasions; They still can't make a dent in the lead Obama has in all the swings States Republicans tried in vain to steal.
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I actually hope Obama and Romney both implode. I would like to give Gary Johnson a chance...
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  Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Fast & Furious was a BUSH program that he and his AG thought up and implemented. It carried over to the Obama Administration without Obama and Eric Holder getting briefed or givin any updates to new AG on the Fast & Furious Program. As soon as this program was brought to the attention of the AG he ended it.
  
  Again I say this is a witch hunt designed to distract the AG from his job of protecting the Floriday Voters from "CROOK"SCOTT and his attempt to wipe Blacks and Hispanics off the Florida Voter Rolls.
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Look at the post right above yours. Bush did not start F and F.
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  Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Look at the post right above yours. Bush did not start F and F"
  
  Please don't quibble with me!
  
  The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) ran a series of "gunwalking" sting operations between 2006 and 2011.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Furious
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And that is just what Obama said
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpwYh9TD6Nc
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  tmbridgelandposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously a cover-up of something. We just don't know what, yet. What amazes me is that the media has not been all over Mexico interviewing family of the victims. Possibly hundreds of innocents dead in a US Govt operation, and no interviews? WTF?
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My question: Is what they did illegal, or just stupid?
  
  I don't like it when any President uses Executive Privilege to hide their wrongdoings or stupidity.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The President is protecting strategical documents after the fast and furious case was closed and put under investigation by Congress. Everything Congress needs to know about the gun running program they have. But they want the strategy between Eric Holder and President Obama on how to handle the situation going forward after it was closed.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't looked into it closely, so you could be right. I'm just saying that Executive Privilege has often been used to keep secrets that would not harm national security, but would harm elected officials.
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is this an inside leak or clairvoyance?
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Its simply their strategy on how to handle what was coming from Congress. This is the same reason GW Bush used it when he was President and Clinton 14 times before him.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In this case, it's simply Liberal BS, RB.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No just listening to the news will get you that information. and a little digging into research on why other President's used it.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Again, sources, Chenard. And please make it a real news source.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10 … ous-under/
  
  i will even use your favorite network.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's not my favorite but fair enough, CR.
  
  Now, what did Obama know and when did he know it?!?!?
  
  Brain Terry died December 15, 2010. When did Holder know about it? When did Obama know about it?
  
  http://www.westernjournalism.com/holder … ian-terry/
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But what happen to all those innocent Mexicans operation Wide receiver started in 2006 and The President of Mexico attributed 40,000 deaths to the illegal gun running from that point until now. The problem is your talking about a faulty operation in Phoenix that was faulty under Bush and was faulty under Obama but to put Eric Holder on the hot seat for some retard agents in Phoenix is chasing ghosts. Congress wouldn't even call the head of the division up to the stand against Eric Holder to prove how much he knew or didn't know. That just lets you know this is all politics. Funny thing is the governor in Florida is trying to break the laws of the Constitution by violating voting rights and the head of the DOJ can't confront something real for the republicans stalling him with minor details.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not to mention Representatve Issa is a criminal himself. Stealing cars.....
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  Deni Edwardsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you not realize that Fast and Furious was a program that began under George W. Bush?
  
  Do you not realize that the republicans (are trying to make people) believe that President Obama began this program in order to tighten gun laws,(but it was created under Bush)?
  
  If you have been paying attention, this is what all of the republicans are saying--that it is a grand conspiracy in order to make Americans squeamish about guns and be willing to tighten gun laws. And this is why there is an investigation, the demanding of top-secret documents--not because of anybody's death--but because the republicans are claiming: CONSPIRACY!
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hopefully you are the last who has to be informed that Eric Holder R E C A N T E D his statement that F and F was a Bush program.
  
  Sorry. Not this time.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Deeeeni, Eric Holder, your beloved president's Attorney General, has retracted his statement that Fast & Furious was begun under Bush.
  
  http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government … nt-Mukasey
  
  Come on, man, get with the program!
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Long,
  
  It is getting difficult for Eric Holder to remember his lies. Operation Wide Receiver was a sting operation conducted during the Bush administration in the years 2006 2007. It was done with full knowledge of the Mexican government and all guns used in that staying at tracking and location devices put on them. It was when the drug cartels realized the guns were LoJacked the program came to an end. The program ended almost 2 years before Barack Obama became President. Is no comparison between Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver, two different programs following two different sets of rules.
  
  But, some people just are not happy and as they blame Bush at least once a day. It's almost cult like, like a religion. They have to once a day say their prayers to the Blame Bush.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the info, AV, but none of this will matter to the liberals. They're in CYA mode for their 'chosen one.' Blaming Bush is just one of their tired, old tactics that I hope they don't get away with yet again.
  
  I have a feeling this week (6-25-12) is going to be a VERY rough week for the Libs and Dems.
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  chipsballposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nah! Longhunter
  
  You will know very shortly who is responsible for the death of the agents...once the true facts come out about the "cowboy" attitude of the ATF agents who concocted this scheme of "gun running" They changed the name of each scheme to hide their activities...all under the Bush Administration...and changed again to "Fast and Furious" to again cover-up their activities. Once Holder found out about these rouge/cowboy operations he put a stop to them all and began an investigation...open your eyes!
  
  Fox news and others have tricked people like you into believing that the Obama Administration is responsible for the deaths of the agents and Mexican officials in Mexico. They hide the "truth' from you and FOX shamelessly drew the parents of the slain officer into their crusade.
  
  Currently you will only receive distorted facts and misinformation by this Republican "witchhunt" via FOX NEWS aimed to get at President Obama through Holder...it's obvious.
  
  If you truely care about the slain agents and the people in Mexico you should join Holder and others calling for a complete investigation that would include the actions of the ATF and the Attorney General for Bush. The Issa committee is not interested in any of that!
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  . . . you should join Holder and others . . .
  
  Do the words cold day in hell mean anything to you?
  
  The only thing I want to see is Holder's resignation and Obama's complete and utter defeat.
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Reality Bytesposted 12 years ago
At the Saddleback forum, in 2008, then-Senator Obama criticized Supreme Court Chief Justice, John Roberts, for affording too much power to the executive branch and allowing it to encroach upon the other branches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSpPlq5- … re=related
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  wow! Well, I guess there you have it. It has to be a CYA then. Interesting enough, we see this on both sides. Always pandering and swaying to the tune of it's okay for me but not for you. I need a glass of wine!
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Another example of making sure the other side gets pulled into the conversation even though it's Obama who's doing the CYA.
  
  Now I need a glass of wine and it's only 10 AM.
  
  Give it a rest already.
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lambservantposted 12 years ago
Definitely a cover-up. It's also interesting to note that in 2007 Obama made a statement about "Hiding behind
executive privilege." http://youtu.be/bpwYh9TD6Nc

Obama often thinks he's above having to be accountable and follow the rules. This time he got caught. I do hope it
costs him the election.

The democrats always blame these things on extreme right wing conspirities, and often when the evidence is
most certain.
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JSChamsposted 12 years ago
Hey I tell you what.
Let's do a little social experiment here.

Let's rearrange this so it happens l;ate in the first George W. Bush term and listen to the deafening screams, shrieks, and gnashing of teeth from the left, shall we?
There is no way....no way... that they would not be calling for his blood, Cheney's blood, whomever the AG would have been blood....you name it.
'But it's Barack Obama so we are deflecting from "real issues, real problems".
The real problem is tyranny. It is increasing daily from the Obama administration.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The fact is that the liberals didn't do this in the Bush administration. They didn't go wild and crazy when Bush used executive orders four times to cover up Republican strategies when it came to the Iraq war the CIA blow up or the full disclosure on the 9/11 commission. But you want to hang this President for trying to protect confidential files that discussed how to handle the fast and furious case after it was discovered. All the files that are needed about the fast and furious Congress already has but they want papers concerning the President's democratic strategy and he has every right to protect that strategy the way Bush did.
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  PEOPLE DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
  This is obstruction of justice. Period.
  Let that be a Republican and to hell with George Bush. Let it be Reagan.
  Whomever as long as he ain't Liberal he must pay with his career and his life if they can cause it to happen.
  
  Is there no tyranny Barack can bring forth that you won't uphold as right?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your comments are laughable, Chenard.
  
  If Fast & Furious had occurred on a Republican watch, the liberals and their media puppets would be screaming to high heaven. To say they wouldn't only proves just how in the koolaid you are for Obama.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thats just it Fast and Furious started on Bush's watch. But that's beside the point. Every decision made by Bush during his term as President was an impeachable offense. He started two wars that he had no intention of paying for those wars didn't even come onto the books until Obama became President. The Bush administration leaked information about a CIA agent while she was covert putting her life on the line. And the worst atrocity of all he killed millions of innocent Iraqis on false intelligence and where were the liberal knights then. Okay case closed
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No....the case is not closed.
  Eric Holder recanted his statement that the Bush administration started Fast and Furious.
  Barack Obama and Eric Holder O W N this!
  The progressives in ti s nation need to learn that Conservatives are going to be just as tenacious about bringing forth the corruption from the Left as the try to be from the Right.
  Get it?
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So the federal gun running started under Obama... Hmm seems kinda fishy to me seeing as though these programs were implemented under Clinton and continued under GW. Wow conservatives like imaginary ghosts to chase. Illegal immigration across the Mexico border is as close to zero as it has ever been. And instead you ghost chasers want to bring up one gun running program out of many because one agent died. Don't bring up the hundreds of Mexicans cause you could honestly care less about their lives.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Come on, Chenard. Put that glass of Liberal Koolaid down and step back into reality.
  
  Attorney General Eric Holder has admitted Fast & Furious was not started during the Bush Administration.
  
  Robert Novak outed Plame but God knows you wouldn't want actual facts to get in the way of your liberal thinking.
  
  http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2008/ … ?mobile=nc
  
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no Longhunter!
  Don't you see that now and forever more no one in the known....and possibly unknown....universe will be responsible for wrong doing except George W, Bush!
  Ask LMC if we ever see her again!
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LMC is still around but she's been banned from the forums. Sad really. I believe in the First Amendment more than I do the HP police.
  
  As for Bush, the whole Blame Bush has gotten old but it just shows Liberals have NOTHING ELSE to offer.
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am sad she got banned. I disagreed vehemently but never wanted to see that. If you are reading this LMC we really do love you!
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your absolutely correct the title fast and furious was the name donned after Obama came into office. Those wacky DEA agents with their clever names but it was a continuation from the gun running programs first implemented under Clinton and continued by Bush.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You'll have to understand I don't believe a word a Liberal says or writes.
  
  Perhaps you should provide links to your sources. That is, of course, if they exist and they're not anything with the word Wiki anywhere in the name.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Longhunter Robert Novak is a columnist who had to retrieve his information from the administration to be able to leak a covert agent. Kind of like the conservatives are running at the bit for this so called leaked national security high profile information that every news agency has been reporting since first hearing about it. (just so happens it contains no confidential information)
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See above, Chenard.
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  Wayne Brownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No doubt....just turn the tape back to Watergate and see. Nixon made every excuse and argument for his use of executive privilege...and no one was killed in that two-bit buglary. The litmus test here is not "politics". It is the death of Brian Terry and hundreds more in Mexico. If there is strategy to be uncovered here, it is not anything to do with Democrat strategy but it has everything to do with undermining the 2nd Amendment Rights of Americans using the assumed results of Fast & Furious as the platform...that is the discussion which cannot afford to come to light. WB
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Longhunterposted 12 years ago
The biggest problem with all this for the liberals is they see their Obama monuments and his administration crumbling to the ground. They don't know how to handle it.

Brian Terry died as well as hundreds of Mexicans. Their blood is soaked into hands of Holder and apparently Barack Hussein Obama's as well.

Now, what did Barack Hussein Obama know and when did he know it?!?!?!?
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? I thought it was the conservative mantra that "guns don't kill people; people kill people." Did Obama and Holder pull the trigger? Did I miss something?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Guns don't kill people, PP, unless, of course, you hand them over to drug cartels who have no problem busting a cap in someone's head.
  
  "Did Obama and Holder pull the trigger?"
  
  Perhaps you should ask Brian Terry's mom or dad that question.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's a really stupid and hypocritical reply.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure it is to Liberals. Truth hurts, doesn't it.
  
  Wait! Is that the sound of Barack Hussein Obama alters crumbling? YES, I BELIEVE IT IS!!!
  
  Now, what did Barack Hussein Obama know and when did he know it?!?!?!?
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obama has "alters"? lol
  
  Really, you are making a fool of yourself. I'm pretty sure that the man who shot Brian Terry would have had a gun without the Fast and Furious operation.
  
  Yes, it's bad that it was THAT gun that was used. Like I said, the operation seems stupid, at least as far as what we know about it. But to pretend that Brian Terry's death would never have happened without that particular gun is stupid and hypocritical.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So if you hand someone a gun and they kill someone, are you not partly responsible?
  
  Let me guess. To you, it was unfortunate it was a 'Fast & Furious' gun that was used, not that Brian Terry died?
  
  To you, it 's unfortunate that Obama is now having to do CYA because a border agent managed to get himself killed?
  
  To you, it's okay the shooter used a 'Fast & Furious' gun as he would have had one anyway?
  
  And you say I'm making a fool of myself!!! That's rich!!!
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you are. You just now attributed statements to me that I did not make. Anyone reading this thread can figure that out.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, PP, I'm asking you questions.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, just a few innocent questions, right? Well, the answer to all of your questions is "no."
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I didn't think so but, since that's the way things seemed to be heading, I thought I would ask.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Heading in your own mind, sure. Your method of debate is to invent imaginary positions for those you disagree with, so that you can more easily make your points.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And your method of debate is to drink the liberal koolaid then spew . . .
  
  Come on, PP, we can do this all day. It's Friday. Lets lighten up.
  
  What da ya say?
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If I were defending Obama, then your point might be valid, but I haven't defended him or Holder once, with regard to executive privilege, which is the point of your OP.
  
  Hard for you to accept, huh?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  PrettyPather is correct, if Fast and Furious had never occurred then that border agent would till have been killed, this sort of scheme was run under Bush too (as linked above) there is nothing wrong with gun tracking this was just a screw up because they lost track of the guns.
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Reality Bytesposted 12 years ago
If Obama was not involved in "fast and furious", executive privilege does not apply. If Obama was aware of the program, Holder misled Congress.

Roger Clemens?
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Roger Clemens was acquitted whats your point?
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Misleading Congress, if proven, is a serious offence!
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not to a Liberal, RB. Misleading everyone and deception is a the liberal way of life.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Longhunter,
  
  Get off the high righteous horse would you please. Both sides are as guilty as one another.
  
  You continuing to claim liberals are deceiving people is nothing but the pot calling the kettle.
  
  Conservatives are just as bad.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are problems on both sides. I'll be the first to admit that, Cag.
  
  What's your opinion about Obama' executive privilege? CYA? What?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course it's CYA, what politician doesn't do it?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They all do it! But why is okay when Barack Hussein Obama does it but not a Republican president?
  
  What did Obama know and when did he know it?
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Did you miss this or are you ignoring it for the convenience of your argument?
  
  "I don't like it when any President uses Executive Privilege to hide their wrongdoings or stupidity."
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not saying it is okay for Obama to do it.
  You and I will most likely never know.
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charlieceglennposted 12 years ago
Wow! Someone got killed? That's not executive priviledge, that's the mafia!
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Longhunterposted 12 years ago
The sad thing is the Liberal BS on display here doesn't surprise me in the least.

Anything to save a dying presidency. Even disregarding the death of an American border agent.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But what about the Mexicans aren't they people too.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You tell me, CR. Or are they just as unimportant as the liberals on here are insinuating the life of Brain Terry was?
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See, you can't stick to the points of debate, because it's just too hard, so you have to invent some ridiculous stance for the other side to make it easier to argue against.
  
  Please show me, with quotes, where any liberal on this thread has disregarded the death of a border agent.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Yes, it's bad that it was THAT gun that was used."
  
  Damn shame it was a gun traced back to F&F. Would his death have mattered otherwise? The impression I got was it wouldn't.
  
  I guess liberals are the only ones allowed to get bad impressions of what others say.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course that is your "impression" since you are ignoring anything that runs counter to your stereotypes.
  
  Oh, and by "lighten up" do you really mean "back off"?
  
  Edited to add: That is my "impression." lol
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's the impression I got because Liberals are so stereotypical. It's okay if your guy does it but, if a Republican does it, y'all want his head on a stake.
  
  No, PP, I meant what i wrote, "lighten up." I don't need you to "back off." I'm a big boy. I can take it.
  
  Which reminds me and totally off subject. Have you heard anything from LMC since she was banned from the forums? I sent an email to Paul Deeds, hoping to get her reinstated but haven't heard anything. It probably won't happen as the HP gods have spoken on high.
  
  It's funny how 10 days later she's still listed as the #1 contributor on the political forum.
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  innersmiffposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What did she get banned for?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not 100% sure. For that reason, that's probably not for me to answer.
  
  LMC and I have butted heads numerous times and we rarely agree but I'm a big believer in the freedom of speech. I also respect LMC. IMHO, she nor anyone else should be banned permanently.
  
  It's simply un-American, again, IMO.
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  innersmiffposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Unless they put child pornography or something like that on here I don't think anybody should be banned from the forums.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I haven't heard anything. It's too quiet around here without her. I have no idea why she was banned.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Far too quiet. I can understand rules but a permanent ban is ridiculous, IMHO.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How did you find out it is permanent? That is awful.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  She posted it in a status. I sent her an email to verify.
  
  I sent Paul Deeds an email, asking that she be reinstated. I haven't gotten anything back but really didn't think I would. That was a week ago.
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Longhunterposted 12 years ago
PrettyPanther wrote: If I were defending Obama, then your point might be valid, but I haven't defended him or Holder once, with regard to executive privilege, which is the point of your OP.

Hard for you to accept, huh?

I just find it funny how liberals are acting as if it's no big deal Obama used Executive Privilege but if a Republican, lets say Bush, had done the same thing in the same situation, they'd be calling for his head.

And you call me hypocritical.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I have been quite consistent. Again, are you ignoring what I said earlier?
  
  "I don't like it when any President uses Executive Privilege to hide their wrongdoings or stupidity."
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent. Then we agree. I know. Don't be scared.
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Great! Just wanted you to acknowledge it instead of relying on stereotypes.
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Cagsilposted 12 years ago
Permanent ban from the forums. I can see how that would be possible. But, she hasn't been banned from HubPages.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I sent Paul Deeds an email. Perhaps if more did the same, we'd get her back.
  
  LMC and I rarely agreed but I do respect her as well as the First Amendment.
  
  Honestly, I think HP went too far.
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Frankly I never figured her to be one to be banned. I figured her politics were their politics.
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Onusonusposted 12 years ago
Imagine for a moment that Canada is concerned that US gang violence might cross the Canadian border. So they send thousands of untracked guns into our country under the ruse of “monitoring” the situation. Tragically, these same guns are used to kill hundreds of Americans as well as a Canadian border agent. But Minister of Justice Rob Nicholson and Prime Minister Stephen Harper deny involvement while preventing access to their records. Think our nightly news might find this a bit newsworthy? Or the progressives whining that “Fast & Furious” is just “political?” These libs must not give a darn, after all we’re only talking about dead Mexicans. And they call conservatives racist.
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chipsballposted 12 years ago
Which is exactly why Longhunter and the Issa committee could care less about the death of agent Brian Terry and the "hundreds, maybe thousands" of Mexicans".
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Another example of a liberal not knowing what they're talking about and not caring about the truth, especially since it's his side in trouble.
  
  Apparently personal attacks is all you got, Chippy.
  
  Bring it on.
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  chipsballposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LongHunter
  
  No personal attacks...just expressing a view about the Issa Committee non-interest in the death of the agent and your apparent lack of interest as well.
  
  The truth will come forth to show the "cowboy mentality" operations of the Arizona ATF and the U.S. Attorney General being engaged in gun running activities which resulted in rouge operations, without any oversight or accountability... which "contributed" to the agents death.
  
  Longhunter...That's your answer to the agents death! That's what the Issa committee does not want to uncover. Take your blinders off...if it was one of your love ones what would you want?
  
  Think about it!
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Which is exactly why Longhunter and the Issa committee could care less about the death of agent Brian Terry and the "hundreds, maybe thousands" of Mexicans".
  
  Certainly appeared to be a bit of a personal attack, Chippy, as you originally included me in the "view."
  
  My answer to the death of Brian Terry is everyone involved should be held accountable. That includes everyone from the shooter to Holder and/or the president. The parents of Brain Terry deserve answers.
  
  The only ones wearing blinders are some of the liberals on here who just want F&F to go away for the sake of their beloved Obama. As far as I'm concerned, Holder should be fired immediately but we both know that won't happen as he's one of Obama's buddies. I believe Obama's executive privilege was invoked to cover not only Holder's butt but Obama's as well.
  
  First and foremost, Brain Terry's parents should get the closure they deserve in the death of their son.
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  chipsballposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Longhunter...firing Holder doesn't get you to the truth...and you know this. Neither do the "crocidile tears", the Issa Committee, FOX News and Limbaugh dittoheads shed to get at the Obama Administration via the agent death.
  
  Don't fall for this GOP cover-up and distraction! The investigation into Fast & Furious by the Justice Department will bring everything OUT!
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Come on. Get real, Chip. As long as Holder is the AG and Obama is running for president, NOTHING about the F&F investigation is going to see the light of day. If you think it will, you're the one wearing the blinders.
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know the truth!
  Cheney did it!
  He ordered it from his secret moon base!
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought they moved that base to Mars
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  JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No his pacemaker battery would run out before they get there.
  
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO
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Marquisposted 12 years ago
This is another reason why the Obama Administration is going down hard.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your words to God's ears, Marquis.
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ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years ago
I am interested in knowing how a criminal Rep. Darrell Issa can bring up charges of criminal intent on the attorney general.

This is the guy:

1982: Issa Suspected, But Never Charged, In Arson Incident At Manufacturing Plant. According to the Los Angeles Times: "A suspected arson fire ripped through [Issa's Ohio] manufacturing plant in 1982. No one was ever charged in the fire, but authorities were troubled by a dramatic escalation in the facility's fire insurance just weeks earlier. Even before the blaze was put out, investigators began peppering Issa and his partner with 'crazy questions' regarding their whereabouts before the fire, Issa recalled." [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis, emphasis added]

Prior To Fire, Issa "Boosted" Fire Insurance And Removed A Computer From The Premises. According to the Los Angeles Times: "Weeks before the fire, Issa and [business partner Miles] Hunsinger boosted their fire insurance from $ 100,000 to $ 462,000 on property stored for other companies...At the same time, a separate company that contracted with Quantum to outfit bug zappers increased its insurance to $ 400,000, and, according to an insurance report, one investigator was 'concerned about the coincidence.' Fire investigators also noted that a computer was taken off the site eight days before the fire, 'allegedly to be reprogrammed' by Issa's lawyer, and that business blueprints were put away in a safe -- which was 'not previously done before.'
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This dude has a rap sheet longer than most of the drug dealers in prison.
  Everything from intimidation with a weapon to grand theft auto. See this is the deal with conservatives you pick the looniest characters to fight your fights.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You use words like "Suspected, But Never Charged."
  
  Could it be there was no evidence to charge Issa?
  
  Could it be that you, Chenard, are showing your overwhelming liberal bias?
  
  I think the answer to both would be a resounding YES.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A fire that was never solved and a man who boosts his fire coverage from $100,000 to $400,000 sounds like fast and furious conspiracy to me...In the world of conservatives all conspiracies hold weight.
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  ChenardRobinsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And what about him and his brother being arrested for grand theft auto. A witness watched them push the Maserati down the street but Darrell got off and his brother went to prison weeks later for doing what boosting a car... I am sorry but crap stinks no matter who's hole it comes out of.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No evidence thus no conviction. In this country, even a Conservative is innocent until proven guilty, Chenard, whether liberals like it or not.
  
  The question is can the same be said for Holder? It's killing you and I can tell it. For the first time in U.S. history, a United States Attorney General may very well be brought up on contempt charges by the United State House of Representatives and it's killing you.
  
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chipsballposted 12 years ago
Longhunter

Committee Chair Issa announced there is no evidence of involvment from the White House or President Obama.

Isn't it time to investigate this entire gun running episodes from the bottom up, since we now know there is no cover up from the Obama Adminstration.

Are WE still seeking answers to the agents death?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Step down off your Liberal BS high horse, Chippy.
  
  The MAIN reason to investigate this is to get answers about the death of Brian Terry. "the agent" does have a name, Chip.
  
  In getting those answers, if it's found Holder is in any way responsible, the very least he should do is resign. I'll openly admit seeing him do a perp walk in handcuffs would do me a lot of good.
  
  If it's found Obama is guilty in some sort of a cover up by using his executive privilege, the same for him would be even better to watch.
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  chipsballposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Longhunter it's obvious you aren't after the truth, but instead the "heads" of Holder and Obama. For someone who CLAIMS to care about the late agent and his family you apparently have no interest in seeking justice and the truth about his death. Actions of the Arizona ATF and decisions made by the U.S. Attorney General at the time "contributed" to his death...this is what is beginning to come out...although slowly.
  
  Isn't it time you join?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Say what you want, Chippy, but it's obvious to all that read your words you just want this to go away. You and every other Liberal and/or Dem are scared to death this is just one more nail in the coffin of the Obama Administration's time in office.
  
  Answers for the family of Brian Terry are first and foremost, Chippy. Any damage it causes to your beloved Barack Hussein Obama and his minion Holder are, admittedly, a bonus.
  
  Sit back, Chippy, and hold on. I have a feeling this is going to be a rough week for Obama and his worshipers.
  
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  chipsballposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Getting kind of personal...huh Longhunter? Well that's cool! It Let's me know you are finally coming around...slowly. We'll let the investigations play out and talk again. See ya!
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just calling like I see it, Chippy, but it's nothing personal on my part. Just pointing out the obvious.
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Longhunterposted 12 years ago
Issa Challenges Obama Executive Privilege Claim

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/issa-o … ode=F4DD-1
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Obama's Fast & Furious Executive Privilege

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