Illegal immigration?

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   screamingposted 11 years ago

   A lot of debate on this subject. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only true Americans would be native Americans? Looking back to pilgrim days, would they have been the illegal immigrants by native Americans? If that is true, aren't most of us illegal immigrants by ancestry? Looking for opinions?

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Really? And who was here before them?

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         screamingposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         So if that's the case, then everyone would be illegal?

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   habeeposted 11 years ago

   The NAs were immigrants, also. They came over from Asia - or, according to the latest theory, they came from France and Spain.

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      screamingposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So when did immigration as we know it today really start? And after reviewing that info, are our ancestors, in many cases, illegals by that standard?

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Oh?  Hadn't heard that one - how did they get here if not by land bridge to Asia?  I've seen reports that some Vikings made it by boat, but the first settlers were long before that.

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   American Viewposted 11 years ago

   Since my Great Grand parents immigrated here legally, no I am not an illegal immigrant

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So did mine.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think it was my great great grandparents in my case.  My great grandmother was the first (non-native) woman to set foot in a little valley about 50 miles from where I now live, and great grandpa was the second man to settle there.
      
      Talk about returning to your roots! 
      
      I'm not sure that there was any question of legality then, though, so I'm not sure if they were legal or illegal.

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   screamingposted 11 years ago

   So they applied for citizenship?

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If your family was already living on the land, when America was formed, then you were considered a citizen. No one was denied citizenship at that time(when America was formed as a Nation), if they were already living here.
      
      Yes, government formalities took place, such as the consensus and eventually a social security number was given to every citizen as a part of citizenship.
      
      But, just because the Native Americans were here before America was formed, doesn't mean they are any less of citizens to the nation. They too were living here before America was formed and should have equal rights, just as anyone else.

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   screamingposted 11 years ago

   What year?

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   screamingposted 11 years ago

   @wilderness. That's my point here. Many of our ancestors would "today" be considered illegal immigrants. The US is a melting pot and always will be. We need to consider that when we address illegal immigration as some call it today.

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Really? How do you figure? No developed system of government on America the continent before European people came over here. Yes, the Native Americans had their own code of laws to live by, but it wasn't anything at all. And as the population of the land grew, a Nation was born.
      
      Countries like Britain, India, Africa, China had systems of government for the boundaries of it's Nation.
      
      The U.S. is very young compared to them. And, if not done right, won't live as long as any of them.

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         screamingposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Then for that to be the case, the immigrants would have had to have been the first inhabitants. Were they? If not, they were the illegal immigrants? Who can prove or disprove if others who inhabitated America before the pilgrims, didn't have immigration laws that the pilgrims landing violated in the language of those predceding the pilgrims?

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            Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The Native Americans didn't have immigration laws.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And some call an illegal immigrants what they actually are - illegal aliens - without regard to being PC.
      
      At the time you are speaking of there was no govt. welfare, no food stamps, no free medical care and taxes were not used to support immigrants.  They lived or starved, worked or not, without govt. intervention or support.  There was unlimited land for the taking (as long as you beat off the indigenous savages) and immigrants very often "went West" to open and free country to live.
      
      Times have changed.  Govt. now supports illegal aliens in a myriad of ways via tax $$.  The country is being overpopulated (not yet, but it will become so in time) and the country no longer needs immigrants as it once did.  In particular, it does not need criminals that cannot and do not support themselves while thumbing their noses at our laws.
      
      How or why our multi-great grandparents came to this country has little to no bearing on what the illegals are doing to it today, and what the solution to that problem is.

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      JSChamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So therefore everyone who can walk in is an American citizen. Is that your argument? Cause it sure looks like it.

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   screamingposted 11 years ago

   I agree native Americans should have equal rights. But with all these opinions on "illegal immigrants", I'm just saying we need to look backat some of our ancestors. Because by "todays laws", many would be asked to leave.

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   screamingposted 11 years ago

   So you say. But who knows for sure? That's my point. Perhaps they did? They didn't go to war for the hell of it. They were attacking the immigrants taking their land. So under that premise, they did have immigration laws.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Not sure who you are replying to - Cagsil?  Better if you will use the "reply" button under the post.
      
      Of course all "natives" everywhere (not just America) had immigration laws in that sense.  Very few peoples have voluntarily turned over their hunting grounds to other tribes.  The difference is that we don't typically allow such things to happen today while it was quite common hundreds or thousands of years ago.  Conquest was how you moved to a different location but it is frowned upon today.  Even when it happens to America.

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         screamingposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         @wilderness, and that's my point. If one reviews the immigration laws, many of our ancestors were in fact illegal immigrants by todays standards or laws. But yet many fail to realize that fact and are quick to judge those considered illegal today. We need new immigration laws that are fair. Not a round up solution and send them all packing. That was the point of this forum.

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What my distant ancestors did or did not do has no bearing on todays world or problems, at least in the much changed world of immigration.  As I say, times and circumstances have changed and we are not the savages we were once were.
            
            Yes, comprehensive immigration change needs to be made, beginning with securing our borders and denying work to illegal aliens.  Not immigrants, not "green cards" - illegal aliens.
            
            It sounds like your solution is to simply grant citizenship to anyone here, and I categorically deny that as a reasonable solution to the millions of illegal aliens withing our borders.  I'm tired of the damage they do, I'm tired of supporting them and I'm tired of fighting them for work.
            
            I also recognize that rounding them up and sending them home won't work - if you're interested I wrote a hub on how to handle the problem.

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Get serious. Most Native Americans would be lucky if they weren't at war with someone else for some other reason, much less have a fully functional government. Sure, Tribunal might have existed, but not like the workings of our States. Nope.
      As I said.
      The density of Native Americans living on the continent was at best, based on tribes. How many tribes? Who knows? It's irrelevant now.

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   Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

   
   
   
   Sorry, dudes. We don't recognize your so-called freedom of religion here in America.
   We don't want you here. We don't want to compete with you for OUR resources.
   Get the hell back to England.

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