The "Cost" of Illegal Immigration

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  1. MikeNV profile image69
    MikeNVposted 13 years ago

    The media continues to omit the word ILLEGAL when they attack the Citizens of Arizona for taking action when the Federal Government will not.

    The Arizona law is NOT an anti immigration law... it's an anti ILLEGAL immigration law.

    I did not compile this list... I've had it for some time.  You can use the URL's to check the sources for yourself.

    $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. … dt.01.html

    30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. … dt.01.html

    $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

    $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. … dt.01.html

    The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States. … dt.01.html

    During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: … Report.pdf

    "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States".

    Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each day! (Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore.) … _bite.html … _bite.html

    Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. … enters0b9c

    Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens which translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens (Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)

    Eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day
    a total of 2,920 annually. (Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)

    95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

    83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

    86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

    75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix,and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

    24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

    40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally..

    48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

    29% (630,000) of convicted illegal aliens in state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually.

    More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

    More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.

    More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.

    More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.

    62% of all undocumented immigrants in the United States are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens, working without a green card.

    Illegal aliens make up 32% of State & Federal Prison populations (FNC O Reilly Factor)

    There are an estimated 240,000 illegal alien sexual predators currently in the USA (Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)

    Over 1,000,000 sexual crimes are estimated to have been committed in the USA over the past seven years by illegal aliens (Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)

    90% of all crime in Brooks County Texas is committed by illegal aliens (Brooks County Sheriff s Department April 2006)

    Numerous law enforcement officers have been beaten, stabbed and shot by illegal aliens over the past few years
    o Officer Rodney Johnson, 40, Houston, Texas
    o Officer Brian Jackson, 28, Dallas, Texas
    o Deputy Brandon "Brandy" Winfield, 29, of the Marion County, Ohio
    o Detective Hugo Arango, 24, of the Doroville, Ga
    o Deputy Saul Gallegos, 35, of the Chelan County, Wash.,
    o Deputy Sheriff David March, 33, of the Los Angeles County
    o Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, of the Oceanside, Calif
    o Officer Daniel Howard Golden, 27, Huntsville, Ala
    o And Dozens More...

    And remember, these aare "Hard working people who just want a Job!"

  2. Cagsil profile image71
    Cagsilposted 13 years ago


  3. KCC Big Country profile image86
    KCC Big Countryposted 13 years ago

    Staggering stats.  Illegal, is the key word.

  4. ilmdamaily profile image68
    ilmdamailyposted 13 years ago

    From what I can tell as a non-US citizen or resident, the issue with this legislation is that it compells the authorities to racially profile the population.

    Which I think is absurd. For instance...

    From your profile you appear to be asian in appearance.

    And are thus likely to be not American.

    Provide documentary evidence to prove you can remain in the US legally.

    Can't see anything wrong with that logic?

    Apparently neither can Arizona's legislators...

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "t compells the authorities to racially profile the population. "

      It specifically does not.

      "From your profile you appear to be asian in appearance. And are thus likely to be not American. "

      What the heck kind of logic is that?

      1. ilmdamaily profile image68
        ilmdamailyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Sab, i'm making the point that this legislation compels racial profiling.

        Think about it.

        If you outlaw illegal immigrants, then you need to find them and prosecute them as criminals under the law.

        How do you find them?

        The only way that authorities can catch violators of this legislation is to stop suspects. Exactly like any other crime.

        Who are the suspects?

        In the case of Arizona, anyone who even looks vaguely Mexican.

        Why would they target anyone else? How else would this play out?

        It's an underhanded form of segregation that unfairly targets true citizens who do not fit the "profile" of a typical American.

        There's a load of unstated assumptions built into the legislation about who is a "true" citizen - race being the most obvious.

        People should not be compelled to present identification constantly because they "appear" criminal based on their ethnicity.

        Aywhere else in the world that would be recognised for what it is: a police state.

        I use Mike's profile as an example of that. Although not Mexican in appearance, he does (in my subjective evaluation - and this is the point here!) appear to be Asian. 

        As such, there is a better chance that he will not be a legal citizen or resident.

        As a police officer it would be remiss of me to not stop him in the street and ask for official documentation to prove that he is a legal citizen/resident.

        In any other circumstance that would be a grossly offensive distinction to make - but I fail to see how anyone can endorse the racial identification and targeting of people from an official body.

        That's why I disagree with this legislation - it targets people based on ethnicity, which is wrong.

        "illegal immigrants" don't walk around carrying signs to indicate thier status. So how else does this legislation propose that illegal immigrants be identified and prosecuted?

        I don't know anything about the US constitution - but this would seems intuitively to be contradictory to it.

        1. Sab Oh profile image56
          Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          "i'm making the point that this legislation compels racial profiling. "

          You are incorrect. It specifically prohibits it.

          You do not seem to understand the law in question. Charges of "police state" are just ridiculous hyperbole.

          "I use Mike's profile as an example of that. Although not Mexican in appearance, he does appear to be Asian. As such, there is a better chance that he will not be a legal citizen or resident. "

          YOU are the one making assumptions about race, appearance, and citizenship, and as an American I personally find it extremely offensive. EXTREMELY.

          1. ilmdamaily profile image68
            ilmdamailyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The issue is not whether or not the legislation specifically prohibits racial profiling: the issue is that there is no practical way for the legislation to be enforced without recourse to racial profiling.

            Rest assured, it won't go by that name - but for practical purposes there is no way for the legislation to be enforced without ethnic targeting.

            Which is wrong. Or at least should be.

            Well that's a good start. Channel that offense into finding a way to deal with your immigration problems WITHOUT making race an issue.

            I'd love to be wrong - but show me a way that this piece of legislation will work WITHOUT recourse to racial profiling?

            I'm not suggesting that the right to protect its own borders that the US claims is invalid. If you believe in nation-states and such, then yes - enforceable borders are a necessity.

            But prevention is surely better than cure - how on earth are so many people being allowed in?

            1. Sab Oh profile image56
              Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              "Well that's a good start. "

              A good start would be for YOU to stop making statements that reveal YOUR racist assumptions.

              1. ilmdamaily profile image68
                ilmdamailyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                LOL, to learn even the most casual amount about me, and you'll find the accusation of racism comical at the minimum.

                Try developing a sense of irony. My posts highlight the inherent defectiveness of the legislation proposed.

                That I should observe that defect within the law speaks nothing of my own personal views. Try not to shoot the messenger;-)

                Again, I make the (obvious I would have thought...) distinction that just because it is "illegal" does not mean it won't happen.

                Of course a Swede could be detained as much as a Mexican could. That is blindingly obvious, and not at all the point.

                The point is that between someone who appears "swedish" and someone who appears "mexican", which person WOULD be detained under this legislation as a suspect in Arizona?

                Do you understand the distinction? The legislation establishes the principle. Pragmatism dictates the reality. The fact that it is legislated against does nothing to negate the fact that ethnicity will play the prinicpal role in determining who a "suspect" is. Period.

                Will there be other factors? Sure. And KFlippin raises the point above about instinct.

                But do you seriously think that law enforcement will go looking for those "other factors" (as, say Rafini points out) in the monied, non-hispanic sections of Arizona?

                I would be doubtful.

                As I understand it, half of this problem arose when the federal government failed to enforce your existing laws on immigration.

                Claims that racial profiling are prohibited in the legislation seem moot in light of that. Just another law to fail enforcing. If the federal government can't even keep people out of the country, then what hope does a state - or county - auhtority have of a) grasping the intiricacies of the distinction that a prohibition on racial profiling entails, and b) enforcing a law that is so finnicky in its nuances?   

                Ultimately, it's not even my country - so my involvement in the debate stems more from an intellectual concern with the ideological integrity of what the US is than anything else. 

                Though I will say this: once the precedent is established - that a government may establish suspicion of criminality based on ethnicity (or gender, or hair colour, eye colour - or any other birth attribute), then it's already too late. This time it might be people of mexican appearance in Arizona. Next time...? None of the implications of this will be apparent until you are the one who happens to fall under the net of suspicion.

                And by then, it will be too late.   

                Ultimately, racial profiling simply does not work. A foundational principle of democratic governance - indeed civilised society in general - is the principle that all laws be applied to all people equally, all of the time. 

                I find it hard to believe that in a country with the depth of intellectual ability and creativity that the US has that a more targeted, efficient solution to this could not be devised.

                You want to protect the US. I get it. Really I do. But why not look for a solution that is more efficient and effective than just "rounding up the Mexicans"? Don't sell yourself or the principles your country was founded on so short.

                Anything else just short changes your own tax dollars and ideological credibility.

                1. KFlippin profile image60
                  KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Horsepucky.  Those fighting to control our borders and stop illegal immigrants from squatting in our country and calling it home, and calling it names, and demanding this and demanding that at the expense of Americans..........those people are fighting for this country's integrity, ideology has nothing to do with it, save that for the liberal pulpit and paperback.

                  Simply making it easy to get work visas would solve this problem, and the rest can go home and go through the process like every other immigrant across the world.  But that is too easy, and does not create that massive voting block that politicoes from both sides hope to call their own, which is more horsepucky.

                  1. ilmdamaily profile image68
                    ilmdamailyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    KFlippin, did you read what I wrote? At what point did you construct the perception that I discredit those who already do the job of "protecting America's borders?"

                    My criticism of border protection in the US is not of those who do it, but the system by which it is enforced

                    Challenging the status quo is not treasonous, or in any way an attack. To interpret it as such is either glib, disingenuous - or stupid.

                    As for the liberal pulpit paperback thing...not sure what that is. I'm a porn-loving, God-believing, Ayn Rand reading, nationalised healthcare system endorsing, anarcho-primitivist. I've got more tags than Gap, and none of them fit into this whole liberal/conservative thing everyone keeps going on about. 

                    Left, right liberal/conservative...I really wouldn't fit anywhere in the political spectrum as it's constructed in the US, nor do I particularly understand the distinctions that people use, or think they are in any way useful or meaningful...

                    As for the visa solution, that sounds interesting. Surely the government should try that?

                    And horses do not play puckey. ;-P

                2. Sab Oh profile image56
                  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  "care to learn even the most casual amount about me, and you'll find the accusation of racism comical at the minimum."

                  I have only YOUR OWN WORDS to go on. You might choose them more carefully.

                3. Rafini profile image70
                  Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I just wonder how many Swedes are here illegally and have multiple fake ID's to prove it when they're arrested......

                4. Sab Oh profile image56
                  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So, the law specifically prohibits profiling and applies the same to everyone, but YOU just know it will violate your superior sense of ideological righteousness in specifically those ways?  roll

            2. Sab Oh profile image56
              Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              "The issue is not whether or not the legislation specifically prohibits racial profiling: the issue is that there is no practical way for the legislation to be enforced without recourse to racial profiling. "

              You are wrong. Under this law an illegal immigrant from Sweden could be detained and processed as much as one from Mexico could.

        2. Rafini profile image70
          Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I can tell you how to spot an illegal (hispanic) immigrant.

          They don't speak English and claim they aren't capable of learning English.
          They refuse to be critical of their homeland.
          They most likely live in substandard housing with little furniture or plenty of used furniture even though they've been in the US for 5 years or more and work 2 jobs.
          They send money 'back home' every month like clockwork.
          They protest US laws designed to protect US citizens.
          They're relieved when citizens tell them they have rights (rather than being thankful)
          They have multiple fake ID's.
          They wear lots of gold jewelry - and not the cheap stuff either.  Because gold is the only thing that's worth anything.
          They refuse to call the police to report a crime.
          They refuse to be involved as a witness to a crime.
          They are surprised to hear about some of our laws (such as driving drunk is illegal)
          They laugh at our stupidity regarding illegal immigrants or our laws in general.
          They provide living quarters for 'visiting' family members who then 'decide' to stay.

          I understand some of these things can be accomplished by legal citizens and legal immigrants - the key is to look at the whole picture.

          I would think with Arizona's new law that the police would question anyone with multiple fake ID's first.  Racial profiling?  I don't think so...!

    2. mikemdr4u profile image60
      mikemdr4uposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It has been stated publicly and repeatedly that "racial profiling" will NOT be tolerated. If an illegal is caught in this manner should they be released?

      Will they be able to fight deportation in the U.S. courts by crying FOUL and using profiling as their defence?

      I'm trying very hard to wrap my brain around  the delicate issue of how to control illegals, and so is the state of Arizona. Let's ALL take a deep breath, wait for  the law to take effect and see first hand how it will be enforced.

      The last time I looked the front door to America was still open and the welcome mat was in place but, you MUST use the front door. Don't come here under the fence, hidden under a tarp in the bed of a pick-up truck, using fake ID at the border, or treking through the desert under the cover of darkness. All of those things make you illegal, unwelcome and YES, a target of law enforcement as well!

      I say give them all amnisty on the condition that they perform two years of active military service defending the country that they want so badly to be in. Very few illegals will agree to that! After all they are here for one reason and one reason only...they want OUR JOBS!

  5. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    I read an article that said over 20 states are considering legislation similar to Arizona.

    The cost to the taxpayer is well documented. But don't forget how much money businesses save with the cheap ILLEGAL labor. And how much money the rich save by having cheap domestic help to care for their kids and landscape their yards.

    The average American has a lot of power to get through before our voices will be heard. The rich want us to work for peanuts and don't care if the costs of illegal immigration are burying us with huge local taxes to educate the illegals. High property taxes to them are nothing.

  6. Uninvited Writer profile image80
    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    These are great stats. How many legal Americans kill other Americans every day? How many burgle? How many kill others by drunk driving? How many commit sex crimes? How many make and distribute drugs? How many police officers were killed by American citizens?

    I think most people are not against stopping illegal immigration, but making them scapegoats, fear mongering and racially profiling them is not the way to go about it. I KNOW if I moved to the US illegally that I would never be stopped in Arizona to show my papers.

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      " How many legal Americans kill other Americans every day? How many burgle? How many kill others by drunk driving? How many commit sex crimes? How many make and distribute drugs? How many police officers were killed by American citizens?"

      Leaving aside how utterly absurd it is to suggest any of those things somehow mitigate the cost of illegal immigration, you'll notice that no one is marching in the streets demanding that the ILLEGAL activities you mention should somehow be legitimized or that those who quite rightly oppose the ILLEGAL activities you mention are 'racist' for doing so.

    2. profile image0
      Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The reason these stats are important is that they counter the propaganda that illegal alliens are really just hard working undocumented workers that add more to the US than they take.

      The fact is if these illegals weren't here the crimes they commit wouldn't be happening, our local taxes would be lower, our schools would have fewer students, our jails would have fewer prisoners and our health care expenditures would be less.

      Racial profiling is a red herring argument for people who don't want to deal with the issue of sending these people back where they came from and sealing our borders.

      Honestly, right now I'm ready to join a tea party rally, I'm so sick of people breaking our laws and then expecting sympathy for doing so.

      1. KFlippin profile image60
        KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Extremely well said and to the point.

      2. Sab Oh profile image56
        Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Excellent post.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image66
      Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Good points. NV's stats failed to mention the immigrants who are working hard at useful jobs, paying taxes and raising their families including children who were born in the U.S. and therefore are citizens. Many undocumented or "illegal" immigrants obtained citizenship by serving in the Armed Forces. Immigrants will be required to supplement our work force to support the growing percentage of retirees and elderly people in this country. Just about everyone agrees that immigration reform is needed including better border security and a reasonable and fair opportunity to attain citizenship for the 11 million undocumented immigrants already in the country.

  7. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    Ilmdadaily - if our borders were sealed and immigration handled in an orderly manner, it wouldn't be an issue. The laws on immigration are constitution - it's a lack of willingness by the Federal government to enforce them that's the problem.

    I will gladly carry my birth certificate and passport and be checked daily, if it means the illegals go home and we get our country back.

    1. LiamBean profile image79
      LiamBeanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Where in the consititution. To my knowledge the word "citizen" is used twice and only in the context of the elected representatives of the federal government.

      This is not in the constitution. There is nothing in that august document requiring residents of these United States to prove they are citizens.

      And if you think about it that makes perfect sense. When this country was formed 1/3 of the population were pro-British, 1/3 did not care one way or the other and 1/3 were solidly pro-US.

      That means 2/3rd of the population were either agnostic or atheist toward the U.S. as an independent nation. The constitution had to account for that majority.

  8. Uninvited Writer profile image80
    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    Like I said, there are legitimate reasons to be against illegal aliens and I definitely believe countries should try and wipe it out, or at least cut it down, I doubt you can ever totally eliminate illegal immigration.

    However, fear mongering is not the way to do it.

    What is wrong lately, and not just with illegal aliens but also with gays, is others being unable to see that these are other human beings we are talking about. They probably are not much different than you. It is still the vast minority of them who commit serious crimes.

    1. profile image0
      Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      UW, we can't avoid the illegal immigrant problems and they way they are destroying the quality of life in the US, because we think it spills over to other minority groups.

      As the proud aunt of a gay woman, who will soon be legally married in Massachusetts, I staunchly defend the rights of gay and lesbians and every other legal American to live a free and equal life.

      The fact is that Illegal Alliens are different from me, they break the law every day that they are here. Illegal immigration is a very serious crime, because of its sheer magnitude.

    2. KFlippin profile image60
      KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      To bring a comparison to gays into the discussion illegal immigrants is so very apples to oranges, and simple distraction.  There is no fear mongering going on in regard to illegals, the crimes are fact, the financial bleed of our country is fact, and the law that makes them 'illegal' is fact.

      Many, most in my opinion, immigrants from Mexico are fine people, that doesn't mean they should be allowed to come here at their leisure and pleasure without a piece of paper that confirms the nature of their stay.

      Any attempt to turn the issue of control of our borders into fear-mongering and racial-profiling is pure liberal rhetoric.  And I can assure you they will have zero allegiance to a President who only says God Bless America when it becomes clearly politically necessary.  As well, Mexicans are lovers of capitalism in America, why do you think they come here?

    3. Rafini profile image70
      Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      check the statistics, would ya?

      30% of the federal prison population are Illegal Immigrants.  How many people are in our federal prisons?  2,304,115 in 2008.  Take 30%.  (691,234)

      So, out of 12-22 million illegal immigrants, who are supposedly here to improve their lives as hardworking people, at least 691,234 are in our federal prisons.  Or, more than 3.1%.

      That leaves 1,612,881 out of 309,595,871 legal US Citizens as federal prison inmates.  Or, much less than 3.1%. (9,597,472)

  9. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    When will we find a President willing to enforce the law? Both Republican and Democratic Presidents, Liberal and Conservative, have refused to secure our borders and send the illegals home. I'm so disappointed in Obama over this - so disappointed.

    And btw, I am as Liberal as a person can be on 99% of social issues. To me this isn't about liberal or conservative - it's about defending our way of life and our borders. We can't afford to give every Mexican who wants an American education schooling - or give every Mexican who wants a job a job.

  10. aware profile image68
    awareposted 13 years ago

    there is a huge fund  of money  paid into taxes from fictitious persons aka   illegals

  11. KFlippin profile image60
    KFlippinposted 13 years ago

    It is the height of utter stupidity to think that control of our borders can occur without someone's physical characteristics playing a role in enforcement of LAW.

    It is the height of utter stupidity to think that the ongoing search and hunt for terrorists in our country can occur without someone's physical characteristics playing a role in protecting our COUNTRY.

    It is pure distraction to focus on the necessary use of physical characteristics in protecting our borders and looking for plotting terrorists, and those physical characteristics are but a part of the whole persona presenting to a law enforcement officer, and to criminalize their observation of physical characterictics is to be blind and stupid to the very nature of a human being, or even a so-called dumb animal, who well uses their visual perception to scout out threats.

    You can not legislate away human instinct and eyesight.

  12. Dave Barnett profile image57
    Dave Barnettposted 13 years ago

    Just wanted to add, according to a certain news outlet
        1) If enter Mexico illegally, you will be arrested.
        2) If you are in possession of a Mexican visa, and you stay past your permit, You will be arrested.
        3) If a mexican nationally assists you in either case, they will be arrested.
        4) You CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN, OR SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT or you will be arrested. Unless of course, you are a mexican national...then you just disappear.

  13. Ron Montgomery profile image61
    Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years ago

    The right loves to emphasize that these immigrants are breaking the law, as if committing a class B misdemeanor is an equal offense to mass murder.

    They conveniently forget that we live in a country founded by leaders who were brave enough to commit capital crimes in the name of liberty.

    The fear ginned up by these people about violence committed by immigrants does not square with the facts.  Phoenix is a much safer city than many similar sized cities further North and East.  The mayors and police chiefs of Arizona's border towns are very much against this law - the people who know that the fear-mongering is a sham.

    1. LiamBean profile image79
      LiamBeanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What kills me, figuratively speaking of course, is how many of this rabid responders will happily hire an illegal to save a few bucks.

      1. Sab Oh profile image56
        Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        If there were no illegals they wouldn't be able to do that, would they?

  14. KFlippin profile image60
    KFlippinposted 13 years ago

    I've just learned something new!

    I had no idea there were polls taken back in the day!  Aren't we all just so lucky that the small 1/3rd of brave souls fought and died for the creation of the great Republic of the United States of America! I'm so very proud to know that my forebears were among that 1/3rd Minority!

    We all should recall the power of that minority (amazing! polls back then!) every time we power up our computer and have the freedom to read and peruse at our leisure what we choose.  What a gift of freedom that strong one third gave us, what a legacy, what a shame that it now has zero respect by so many who would have our country become limp and tepid and without borders -- who have not the vision to see the future weakness and vulnerability of the great USA, and the potential nightmare that very orchestrated weakness will wreak on our descendants.

  15. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    It's amazing that some people on these forums have gone back to the ice age or 3 hundred years to point out that this country is a nation of immigrants - and feel that this justifies illegal immigration today.

    Again another red herring in the discussion of ILLEGAL immigration. It's too late to rethink the Vikings, Columbus, the Pilgrims or refight the Mexican-American War.

    As of today we are a nation with laws that prohibit illegals. And yes, this pinko liberal from the liberal state of Massachusetts is in favor of sending them home and sealing the border.

    So we can afford to provide legal residents and citizens of this country good health care and education. And have the money to check the quality of our food and protect our public health and all the rest of the things we should be doing.

    Illegals should be very afraid, because it is one thing that many on the left and right agree about.

    I'm not selling my country short, it's been the Presidents and Congress who have refused to follow the law to have sold us short. Legal immigration is how my grandparents arrived here. And that's what it should have continued to be.

    1. Ralph Deeds profile image66
      Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "And yes, this pinko liberal from the liberal state of Massachusetts is in favor of sending them home and sealing the border."

      Do you really think its practical or fair to "send 11 million immigrants home" even though this would mean splitting up families, sending people back to countries whose language they don't even speak?

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Don't understand.  How is it splitting up families?  Can parents not take their own children with them when they go home to their own country?  They have to leave their children here?

  16. Uninvited Writer profile image80
    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    I don't think anyone is saying nothing should be done about it. It's just a matter of how it is done.

  17. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    Hi Ralph, Fair? Maybe their parents should be held accountable. Maybe their communities back there, wherever there is,  should have to pay to teach them another language, school them and make them feel welcome. As we've been required. I'm not even asking for reimbursement.

    (I'm also in favor of changing the constitution so that your parents have to be legal American citizens for you to be a citizen when you're born here.)

    Didn't we try amnesty under Reagan? I stand corrected if I'm wrong, I was legally living on a VISA in the Far East at the time. When it ran out, I left.

    They go back, they apply, if we need them, they get back in. When we've set up an INS that really keeps track of people.

    I'm really terribly worried about this country right now and what we need to do to fix it. The price tag is staggering and this isn't helping. We just can't afford the illegals when they demand equal status. And we can't afford the lower wages they force on the middle and lower class. And we can't afford a culture of illegality.

    So yeah, send them back.

  18. Uninvited Writer profile image80
    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    Illegal aliens don't force lower wages on workers, the businessmen and women who hire them do.

    A friend passed this link onto me about the cost of illegal immigrants, it refutes every point the OP made: … mmigrants/

    1. profile image0
      Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      When you've broken one law to enter the country, you don't mind working under the table to escape taxes and get paid $4.00/hour. That means the American who wants at least minimum wage doesn't have a chance. Ask people who work in restaurants and construction around here what the impact of illegals is and they'll tell you.

      Why do you think employers are opposed to real immigration reform. It's a myth that illegals are taking jobs that Americans won't do. It's just Americans won't work for slave wages. The erosion of the American Middle Class is the result.

      Oh, I'd love to levy huge fines on companies that hire illegals. Little tiny fines don't work, really big ones would.

      You have to understand that this is THE CONVERSATION in coffee shops across the US. Americans are fed up, and I think that this will rock the political debate in the next few years, if Congress and Obama side with corporations, the elite, and the illegals and Mexcio - and not the American working and middle class. I swear I almost thought about voting for Sarah Palin after listening to Obama's Attorney General talk about the Arizona Law.

  19. KFlippin profile image60
    KFlippinposted 13 years ago

    An Immigrant Living in America - Writing Home in 1882 and commenting on the influx of Chinese to America:

    "But the President vetoed the bill for a variety of reasons, the potential one being that it would alienate the Chinese Government. To give point to this position adverse to the bill, the President appended a memorandum from the Chinese Ambassador at Washington, setting forth in detail the objections of his Government to the measure; and the veto message simply amplified those objections.

    This is an innovation which has given great offence, it being recognised that to submit Congressional action to review by any foreign Minister is to subordinate Congress to the power which that Minister represents. President Arthur has done this thing, however, and has provoked much hostile criticism. Senator Bayard, who leads the Democratic party, was eloquently severe upon the President ; but after all, the treaty of 1880 absolutely gives China the right of legislative revision. The American Commissioners were instructed to obtain from China permission to regulate coolie immigration, and China consented by treaty that Congress "may" pass laws imposing " reasonable restrictions " upon this traffic. .

    It will be seen, therefore, that to conciliate China the United States waived its national independence, and voluntarily assumed the position of a quasi-dependent country. The' astute Chinese ' mandarins promptly availed themselves of the opportunity our polite obsequience opened, and a treaty was ratified granting to Congress modified powers of regulating coolie traffic. But who is to be the judge of what is " reasonable" in the premises? Manifestly the Sovereign government, which, in this case, happens to be China.

    This is not by any means a far-fetched argument. It is a bold statement of fact, the knowledge of which is dawning upon the American mind ; but its full force is not yet understood. Men talk of the probability of a "peaceful invasion and conquest of America by the Chinese," but they are not aware that it had been accomplished to the extent of subjecting the legislation of Congress, to a Chinese veto in all matters affecting the interests of China in the United States."

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty scary, and to think that Mexico is trying the same thing with constant political pressure to get rid of their own undesirables by shipping them to America.

  20. KFlippin profile image60
    KFlippinposted 13 years ago

    Another interesting excerpt (1882)

    "Meanwhile coolies are being landed here at the rate of from 800 to 1000 weekly ; and American labour and capital are.being steadily, thrust to the wall because Chinese employers, owing to their inexpensive way of living and business methods, can always undersell the white employer of coolie labour, just as the unmarried coolie can thrive upon what would utterly fail to support a white man, even if he were not ..weighted with a wife and children.

    Real estate is 20 per cent, lower in California to-day than it was when the Chinese Immigration Bill passed, and the hope existed that it would be approved. An active, anti-Chinese agitation has begun, led by the middle,classes, who are upon, the verge of ruin. What the result may be I do not know, but I am now firmly convinced that it is quite beyond our power here to abate the evil, short of bloodshed, and that would do no good.

    There are more adult Chinamen in San Francisco than could outvote all American citizens on the register. There are more Chinamen on the Pacific Slope than there are white men capable of bearing arms. In a' few' months they will have a decided majority, and as they keep pouring in they will soon have everything their own way. The middle-aged among us will probably see the bulk of the Christian churches and schools of this city occupied' as' Josshouses, and factories, and opium dens, as several have been already."


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