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SC; your main argument is based on religion that is not shared by many.
Changing the definition to "2 consenting adults" doesn't let the cat, dog, whatever into the bed.
There is no proven cause to homosexuality most believe that they are born gay.
actually Christianity is shared by many...most people believe in a higher power of some sort, even if they aren't christian. I was merely explaining the perspective, because the question asked why is it so controversial. I have gay friends, btw.
Perhaps; but the Constitution applies to all.
The day marriage moved out of churches into law it became a right for everyone regardless of belief or lack thereof, regardless of sexual orientation.
As an atheist I can marry, why shouldn’t everyone?
Do you have to do one or the other?
Well, perhaps you would be stoned if you were an Israelite a couple thousand years ago...but I'm guessing you're not.
If same sex marriage becomes the norm - there won't be any more starving children in the world or anywhere else for that matter.
The issue is not about getting marriage "right" - it is about what marriage is and what it is not. It is not about men and their dogs, women and their cats, or a union of two men or two women shacking up in order to engage in perverted sex acts.
What's to understand? The public schools condemn cigarette smoking and know that it can take 9-14 years off a person's life. But, "gay" men, on average, die 32 years before a straight male of the same age. Unhealthy to the core, they still promote it
Except not everyone believes in god or YOUR god. Our law is supposed to work for everyone, not just people of YOUR religious beliefs, and it's supposed to be based on the constitution, not a religious book.
But, I thought the Declaration of Independance was inspired by the Holy Bible? I was told this country was built upon the tenats of Christianity. How can laws work for everyone? That somehow sounds counter-productive to me. Laws that please everyone?
It is the law of nature. A man needs a woman to "create" a child. A woman needs a man to "create" a child. Law of Nature. Spin this any way you want to. If "they" want to hang out and even live together - what ever.
Lou...I believe you are onto something about the procreation of life. Having said that - I think there is more to it than that. It is also about becoming one flesh...a complete union that only a man and woman can make. All other unions produce death.
Which god would that be?
There are hundreds if not thousands all of who's followers claim theirs is "the one and only" without any proof.
I don't know many religions that claim their's is the only way. Most of these religions are man-made and devil inspired, so at the end of the day they really don't care what you believe in as long as it is not the Heavenly Father and Son (Jesus).
and now they are talking about this on the news:(KFI to be exact:) There are zoos in Germany,etc. (why do they put that crap on the radio? Maybe we should be allowed to marry our dogs? I heard a man on the radio claiming he loved his dog that much.)
How does the union of two women produce death, CJ?
Your philosophy and belief system are part of the problem...not part of the solution.
The solution is to grant the same rights to all under our Constitution and keep religion out of government.
Let's put religious view-points aside for one second, Borsia. Now, I want you to tell me of all the positive gains one can enjoy by practicing homosexuality. You can start with their diminished life expectancy and healthy problems and work from there
Funny. Closet gays usually speak out the LOUDEST against homosexual, trying to show the world that they're the "norm", when actually, they're the BIGGEST flame of'em all.
Fear of NOT being accepted can be a scary.
It's not your fault, Will Hunting.
CJ: How are any of those things my concern? Or yours?
Lets look at the fact that their education and income levels are far above average, allowing them a higher standard of living.
I don't know that the life expectancy of conservative gays is shorter
It becomes my concern when social engineers try to make homosexual practices into the norm by allowing them to marry. It becomes my problem when the public school system forces children to read books that paint this wicked perversion in a good light.
CJ; The Constitution that grants equal rights to all is just a tool of social engineers?
Public schools are just that, public. They are trying to teach equality and tolerance within society and bring an end to bullying and violence toward gays.
Studies have shown that children who have no father in the home are more apt to BECOME homosexuals. Homosexuality is the tip of the iceburg when it comes to deviancy and mental disorders. It is neither moral, right, good, natural or healthy.
Are you being politically incorrect?
Thanks for your honesty and bravery, Sledge.
I just try to be open, honest, accurate, and truthful in all that I do. :0)
I've never met a man who would follow your island theory.
Well, I took the example from what parrots will actually do: if two males are stuck in the same cage, it has been seen that one ends up acting like a female. I Hope it is an outlandish suggestion, but it may not be. I'm glad if you think it is!
I don't doubt what you are saying Kathryn. It's too bad that humans take lessons from the animal kingdom. But, then again, we are taught from a young age that we are nothing more than evolved chimpanzees, so there's little wonder why they act like it
last time I checked we aren't parrots. In what percent do confined parrots change gender rolls? There are some animals that do change sex on demand.
God gave marriage to man and woman (as a holy institution). As head of the church, God has made this very clear. Anything outside the heterosexual union is not a marriage. Holding gay marriage in churches is not the problem...it's that they exist.
That argument falls apart when the government got involved and marriage became entwined in law and societal structure. Now it is a Constitutional right for all.
CJ, the problem is that this is not a Christian society. It's a secular one. Trying to control peoples behavior with the Bible is not the way to lead them to God. It is the way to push them away. There are many sins , why so much focus on homosexuals
Because the public schools are not teaching children (yet) that it is okay to cheat on your spouse or that it is natural to kill your neighbor or steal what is theirs. But, they are teaching that homosexuality is normal and just another lifestyle.
So? We live in society that glorifies sin. Not just homosexuality. But gluttony, greed, coveting, vanity, lust, etc. Persecuting another for their sins is not what Jesus told us to do. He told us to love, and share the good news.
Why is it that heterophobes keep calling people "ignorant" who see them for what they really are? What exactly is it that we don't know about the wretched gay lifestyle? I say maroon them all on an island and let them go at it. In 50 yrs they're done
What exactly are we, CJ? Other than just as God made us?
I get tired of your baseless judgement, and endless generalisations about a group of people you know nothing at all about.
Back up your statements, then ignorance won't be a problem, will it?
What is so mysterious about homosexuals? You act as though they are an undiscovered species or something. By the way, God only creates that which is good. If He created people to be "gay", He would not have condemned them for it. Educate yourself.
Nothing mysterious - yet you know nothing of us.
Educate yourself .Gen 19 is not about homosexuality see Ezekiel for Jesus' view on this, Lev - we follow no other laws why that one? Corinthians-Paul, not God. Jesus-nothing at all about it. Any more?
I see the problem now...you are willfully ignorant and desperately seeking validation of a pathetic and disgusting way of life. You will not stop until you convince the world...but at the end of the day - you are still not convinced yourself.
Again, name calling. You have no basis on which to call me as such. I took the time to learn about your religion, yet when I provide backing using the source you use, you have no comeback but name calling. Sad.
CJ I think that your comments are flat out unloving. We need to have a balance of truth and grace in our speech with others. Judging others for your perception of their sins in not your job. It is Gods.
O.K. people are people and God loves everyone equally. If we allow men and women to get married, we should also allow homosexuals to get married. As long as they truly love each other. fine. Why do you want to persuade ME so badly?
Because we are human. All entitled to respect, and human rights. Because I want to prevent any of your children or grandchildren from experiencing your intolerance, should they happen to be gay. Oh, and I'm tired of the same old arguments against us
Thanks for the "cotton candy" theology lesson, but you have no heart for the things of God. Your attitude is one of moral relativism and you see all things as a shade of grey. Apparently the destruction of marriage doesn't bother you in the least.
Wow. Who exactly are you to tell another person that they "have no heart for the things of God"? It's "Christians" like yourself that drive people away from the church. You aren't expressing your opinion, you're expressing your hate.
If I misunderstood you, then I am truly sorry, but it sounds like you are rationalizing gay marriage and the homosexual lifestyle, even though the Bible clearly states that this act is an abomination before God and that sexual sins are like no other.
I don't think you can get all of that out of this comment.
I am rationalizing it, the same same way every other Christian tries to rationalize their own sins. The bible states that many things are abominations- Deuteronomy 22:5 for instance. Do you truly believe that I'm going to hell for wearing jeans?
The expression of homosexuality is just the tip of the ice-burg for those whose wiring is crossed. In 1973, militant homosexuals intimidated and threatened the spineless psychiatric community, such that, their malady was not placed in the DSM IV.
And how is what people do in the bedroom any part of your business? How would you feel if all of a sudden the world was reversed and being straight people were doing all you're claiming homosexuals do. Would you turn gay?
You had something of substance to say and you said it well. Thank you.
I used to think that way, but now I think that promoting deviancy will ultimately destroy our society. Societies need to function in a common sense and natural way. Legalizing homosexual marriage will only allow homosexuality to proliferate.
Sorry Ms Hill, I am not promoting "homosexual marriage" as you indicate. Just the opposite in fact if you read closely. I do however,pragmatically accept that the human condition will never be rid of homosexual relationships. They just ain"t marriage
You said,"those of us who do not seek a same sex relationship should let those who do (seek a same sex relationship) get on with it...." I thought you meant legal marriage. Sorry. I agree. But we have no choice in that matter anyway. Why state it?
DEMOCRACY Ms Hill, DEMOCRACY ! That is why their is need to state it. Remember, all that is needed for evil to prosper is for good people to stand by and do or say nothing. One voice maybe small, but then, none of us is a strong or loud as all of us.
Decoded: Men are just afraid to be infected with gayness. For how can a man want a man when there are women? Real men and women don't give a damn about gayness. They just don't want to be involved in (gayness) it or have it around them.
Funny thing is, it's not contagious. Or even an illness.
Homophobia on the other hand - phobias are usually mental health issues.
JP; how true. Many are afraid that it could happen to them. They think that if they were to shake hands with a gay they might become one.
They don’t realize that they have probably shaken hundreds of gay hands and just don’t know it.
I'll shake their hand if they respect me enough to shake mine. I'll show them it's not catching. Hell, God made me this gay - the only choice is to be proud of it, and not ashamed. Regardless of what others try to say or do.
"Once gay marriage does become legal, people will realize it's not the boogie man conservatives like to make it out to be" - Sooner28
I think you are being very short sighted and may have made peace with sin.
I think you are failing to take into account the vast amount of psychological and biological evidence that homosexuality, while not completely genetic, does have a genetic component, and is not a choice.
My friend, you are making wild assumptions that cannot be substantiated. It is but a hope and a dream that God made people gay. Because if God made people gay...then they cannot be held liable for their moral corruption. Please rethink your position.
Okay, make your case. Why is gay marriage immoral?
No...you prove to me that it is decent, wholesome, pure & healthy. Then prove to me that it is a moral activity within Biblical context, then you must explain to me why homosexuality was always seen as deviant behavior in the DSM III prior to 197
You commented first. You are claiming the Bible is a good guide to morality, and that homosexuality is immoral. If you want to convince me, you must tell me WHY this is the case. If you have any hubs about it, I'll be happy to read them.
Since God was first on the scene and said that homosexuality is, not only a sin, but an abomination, the burden of proof lies with you. If you have any hubs about how homosexuality is a decent, safe, wholesome and healthy activity - I will read them.
Sooner - Answering a challenge with a challenge proves your point.
CJ- be a man, and rise to the challenge, instead of backing off...or are you not certain of your argument?
Give me a day or so and I'll give you the hub you wish - with sources etc
Try as you may, Jlpark, but you will never succeed. You are fighting an uphill battle and are full of piss and wind. You want God and creation to endorse your wretched lifestyle, but you are championing a lifestyle of death and destruction. Good luck
I will leave you in respect. I understand your opinion, whether it is the same as mine. What I don't respect is people using 'facts' without citing their sources - your opinions are just necessarily fact...just as mine aren't., without sources.
I need to hit the hay, but if you are open-minded and truly are seeking the truth...it is out there, but you have to be willing to dig for it...just as I have. If homosexuality was a healthy, decent and natural lifestyle, there would be no problems.
I will make a hub for us CJ - so we can have the discourse wish to have without hijacking someone's question - sound okay? I'll post it to you.
http://jlpark.hubpages.com/hub/Honest-Discourse-CJ... - there you go
The big problem is that government loves the chaos so they can expand their hold on the citizens. The problem is that government supports the immoral factions which provide a greater risk of social destruction for the nation.
Q. Can allowing the institution of marriage for same sexes destroy our society?
A. Y: If it is a natural abomination for the majority... which it is....it would be very stressful for individuals, families, communities, and the society at large.
Kathryn - how exactly is it stressful to the majority? If you don't want a same sex marriage - don't get one. No one is forcing u or anyone to do so. Please explain your comment in more depth.
It is psychologically hard for straight people to deal with SS marriage. It's COMMON sense. The majority of people are straight... Not out of prejudice, just natural preference. Why should a minority be allowed to offend the majority.
That is dangerous thinking Kathryn. When people engage in homosexual acts that is another choice God gave them. Whether he agrees with their choice or not he respects it. We need to follow suit. We will make our own choices that people deem wrong.
I'm straight and it is absolutely nothing to me.
KLH: Having religious zealots trying to force their beliefs on me is a much bigger stress and most of the people I know say the same.
So maybe we should do away with religion, based on your argument?
That is why I said it was dangerous thinking :P What do you mean by forcing beliefs. How does one force their beliefs on anyone? At most you can share your beliefs, I cannot see how forcing is possible.
we are talking about making the marriage between two consenting same sex adults legal. Forget about the rights of the same sex people... What does it do to society? On a psychological level? It depresses most of us. bla.
That's ridiculous. It's the same mentality that men used during the woman's suffrage movement- it's a "natural abomination", it will DESTROY OUR SOCIETY... no, it didn't. Homosexual individuals are part of our society, whether you like it or not.
Why don't you ask taburkett. He started all this by bringing up, "immoral factions." Well, can immoral factions provide a greater risk of social destruction for the nation? BTW Women are not an immoral faction. (I hope)
Cbana; in this case they are trying to prohibit gays from having equal rights for reasons solely based on their religion based beliefs as to what is “morality”. To a great number of us Marriage just a legal contract of partnership based on love.
Kathryn, in that case - what if I find straight marriage 'stressful'? Shall we deny anyone them? I'm gay but my marriage doesn't affect you/rs one bit - just as yours doesn't affect me. Who gave u the right to speak on behalf of the majority? No one.
It's always good to hear every voice, but with all this controversy, certain ones become the loudest- and that's where things go bad.
Well, then why did prop 8 pass in CA????
Why did Prop 8 pass? Because it was worded in a way the people weren't sure whether it was yes for marriage equality, or no to discrimination. It didn't pass by much at all in the scheme of things. Oh and CA isn't everyone. U didn't give an answer.
Because straight people are the majority. I guess when it becomes the other way around, then I will have to put up with it. I like lost dog's thinking, (if my decoding was right)
Excuse me, did anyone bother to check out my link?
Also, according to KLH's decoding, "Real men and women don't give a damn about gayness. They just don't want to be involved in (gayness) it or have it around them." Sounds like you DO give a damn.
AOV - yup, I've just read it. - Good, I hope it's found unconsitutional.
KLH - being white in America used to be/still is the majority - By your reasoning, denying black and hispanic people their marriage rights (again) would be acceptable.
I was just going along with taburkett. If you do not think same sex marriage could hurt the nation in any way. fine. Maybe you are right. I hope you are. Because I do not think this is something we can stop. unfortunately for me.
KLH; How is this unfortunate for you? How will it affect your life or your relationships?
The number of gays isn’t going to change if they are given their right to marry. I seriously doubt that they are going to come visit you any more than they do n
You know, the gays that I know are very likable. Oh well, they can marry each other. If they make good parents, all the better. Ur rite, it won't really change my life or any one else's. Bring it on.
There does seem to be a tide of unnaturalness and a lack of common sense with no one stopping it. It is coming with a seemingly unstoppable force just because IT CAN!
The king is wearing his finest robes...NOT.
Dear Kathryn: I believe the further people walk away from Godly principles and standards, the more deviant and perverted they become. Most of our judges and politcians are compromised characters who are morally bankrupt...the blind leading the blind.
Sad but true. Thanks for bringing in the awareness of the higher ages. Some of us are ahead of our time. (Our civilization is at the Lower End of the higher ages according to indian computations of the cycles of time. )
I don't know if you're serious or if you're trying to be funny.
If you're trying to be funny - BRAVO! You made me laugh at 4:50am; first laugh of the day. Thank you.
However, if you're serious (and I feel that you are) you may need therapy. Seriously
Yet atheists, or their children, are no more apt to be gay than theists.
Trying to connect the two is a misstep do to flawed logic and little knowledge of atheists or gays.