There are two guys.
Upfront, I am going to be practical(as I am in my early 40s), but at the back of my mind, I still value "pure love". I've never been married, no children, having been busy with my study and work all my life. I am tired of working and single life and want to retire and be a housewife now if it is ok, otherwise, I don't mind continuing working.
One is single, never been married, no children, have money(and $mil debt too running a business, naturally, which is not a big deal in running a business), tall, but not good looking(at least not the face look I am attracted to), good body, healthy eating but not so smart(although he is smart enough to run his business "successfully", but there is help from his family, too so his non-smart is compensated that way). IN his late 50s. He wants to marry me. But I don't feel he has good warm heart. Not a bad man, but not really good heart, at all. He does not have the "substance", so to speak, like dignity, integrity, class, etc, and I don't think I can really "trust" him because he lacks those quality for starters. He thinks of himself way better than the way people see him, and that's way too obvious and makes it very awkward in any social situation. He expects people to "admire" him, or takes it for granted that people admire him(but nobody admires him at all. I met him and then I started not answering his phone because I noticed he was not serious. It's been a year, and he came back to me and wants to marry me.
During that one year, I met this another guy, divorced, has been married, three grown up children, HAD money but recently got into some big financial trouble(but he had more money than the first guy, being a very successful professional who made more than half mil a year for decades. He used to drive the most expensive car in the world, but now just moderately expensive car). He has to close his office, and I am not sure if he can reopen it considering his age(in his mid 60s). He is very good looking(at least the face look I am very attracted to), tall(taller than first guy), very good body. Does not have good eating habit(but I have been trying to change his diet so it is not a problem). He recently got into car accident and hurt his back badly(and it will get worse I am afraid and he might have unbearable pain for the rest of his life to have a normal healthy life. So far, it's been a couple of years since the car accident, and he is still ok, though, but he keeps taking medicine, which might be painkiller as well). He is in his mid 60s. The thing is that i fell in love with him when I met him(without knowing his age, his back problem, his financial problem). And he does have a good rather pure heart that I am very connected to(that made me trust him with my heart). And he is very smart(which I am quite attracted to as I am intellectually curious myself). I feel the connection with him.
I am going to omit the emotional elaboration about how painful and confusing and stressful it is for me now, to say the least.
I would appreciate any comments.
Well it looks like you are in a dilemma...... why not post all this as an article on a hub and put a poll on it? Give it six months and take the decision based on the results of your poll....
Then she could make some money off the hub and wouldn't need any of the... men... she described.
I have a real life example to share with you. A lady in our small town left her husband because he had a stroke at a young age. She grabbed another guy in town that liked to walk and play sports like she did and left her husband. This new guy left her when she got MS. She was confined to a wheel chair for years and has now passed away. Her first husband would have stood behind her, but her new boyfriend didn't. He left.
If you have to ask in a forum, you should not even consider marrying any of them. And I hope, for their sake, none of them decide to marry you.
Neither one of these guys sounds like a "winner" in my opinion.
Take a look at what (you) have said.
Guy #1: "I don't feel he has good warm heart, He does not have the "substance", so to speak, like dignity, integrity, class, etc, and I don't think I can really "trust" him…etc"
Guy#2: HAD money but recently got into some big financial trouble, He has to close his office, and I am not sure if he can reopen it considering his age(in his mid-60s)” Basically he is old enough to be your father!
“He recently got into car accident and hurt his back badly (and it will get worse I am afraid and he might have unbearable pain for the rest of his life.
It sounds to me like you are allowing your circumstances (being 40+ and never married) to force you into getting married without expending any (real effort) find a better suited partner.
If you took out a sheet a paper and wrote down all of the (desired traits) you'd want in a husband would it include any of the above baggage you mentioned these two guys have?
The two leading causes for divorce in my opinion are choosing the (wrong mate) and getting married for the (wrong reasons). The fact that you are having a tough time making a decision means you're not happy with either of your present options. When someone is truly "in love" they have no doubts about moving forward with the person of their dreams. You sound like someone who has gone shopping only to discover there is not much left on the shelf and instead of leaving the store you're going to (force yourself) to choose between the two items left on the shelf based upon which has the least damage! There are over 7 billion people on this planet!
How you managed to narrow down your options to these two guys only you know. "The world may not owe you anything but you owe yourself the world!". Don't take the lazy way out. Go after the type of man you (really) want.
Appreciate your comment...
Great metaphor with the shopping...
Since i posted this, I have been baking an idea of looking for someone new, finally... It was difficult, but the comments here helped...
I keep talking to myself to look for someone new now under the breath, to get used to the idea...
Follow your heart. He's the one you said you fell in love with. If you're in love, the rest is easy. Even with the obstacles, I think you have a better chance of making it work with the man you say you love, than the man whose phone calls you ignored.
life is painfully short,... you too will come to the end of your trip, as we all do,... its NOW when you decide what you'll be reflecting on THEN,... so,... will you be laughing and smiling because of the choices you made, the good people you chose to have in your life and the experiences you were blessed with?.... or will you be secretly sorry you didnt have the courage to do what your heart wanted?
in the end we leave this world just as naked and helpless as when we arive,... money and security are little solace for a souls missery.
if this life choice is judged by cars and finances,.. and face type,... i'm afraid you will be dissapointed no matter what you choose,.... choose wisely.
I hear you. Thank you...
Let me play a devil's advocate to understand clearly here.
What if he loses his confidence due to all this "failure" and turns into an "unattractive" man? Will love survive such? His "pure" heart makes him hard to be "shameless" about his failure, and act "normal", as of now(that's why i started questioning this out of confusion and came here to write). I can't think of "restart" in my age, a couple of years later, if love runs out due to, say, his lack of confidence. I was thinking, maybe if he becomes "unattractive" like that, it means he does not love me as much? But I hear man's way of thinking is different(as a provider nature), so I don't know what to think....
first let me say that i agree with wordsmith 100%, you obviously dont love the first guy nor respect him,... but,... without seeming harsh to you, i have to say,... you are seeming to "sit the fence" as we say in the hills,... you ask many questions that often begin with ...."what if he...".... and a whole lot of "I" in refference to what you might or might not get out of this propsed relationship,...... the answers to your questions are inside of YOU,....
what if YOU could no longer work/provide? you stated originaly that your looking to "retire" and stay at home... are you seeking a life partner or a retirement plan?
what if YOU hurt YOUR back?... your health can and will decline over time, thats how life works,.. your talking about someone who is 20 yrs m/l your elder,... its a mathematical no brainer that his health will decline ahead of yours,....
what if YOU loose confidence in YOURSELF? we all get down, we all experience dression to one degree or another,... what we do when were down defines us far more than what we are capable of when were up,...
MOST IMPORTANTLY (yes i busted a caps lock)... if all of these things were to happen to YOU,... what do you think HIS response would be??????
relationships,.... weather negotiated or a leap of faith,... eventualy come down to love,... weather it was there from the begining or grew there later,.... and love is a leap of faith my darling.
its those daily moments when you make the concious, sometimes moment to moment descision to stay,.. when logic and reason say otherwise,... so ask yourself,....
"what if (insert percieved disaster here).... would HE stay with ME?.... would I stay with HIM?
life is more than a comfortable retirement plan,... no one uses thier last breath to praise the merits of a 401K,.... or good health,... or your most expensive car,....
"i love you" are the words we strain to say and hear in the fleeting moments that matter most,..... ponder that.
Do appreciate your comment.
Just one more what if, please allow me.
What if he does not think of himself being worthy of being loved(thus estrange himself from me one way or another) due to lack of money he was so used to, even if i decided to be with him for love?
It's not like there is no changes in him and i am worried about all kinds of what if. His perception of his own "failure" changes the whole dynamics...
The changing dynamics, that's what I was worried about, not the lack of money, nor health, themselves, to be precise...
if he is down on himself to the point that he will drag others down with him then perhaps you should think of removing yourself from a toxic situation for your own good..... if you are un able to give him worth in your affection for him,... if he truly measures himself through math rather than life,... then that may well be a charcter flaw you will not be able to overcome.
as to "what if's"....i have to paraphrase the amazing Kid Rock,... "what if?... F**K what and tell if to kiss you A**".............. in the end, you will make up your mind,.... sounds to me as if the first fellow is NOT for you at all, your description of him reveals that,... and it sounds as if the second fellow, while you seem to have affection and atraction,... also engenders a great deal of fear in you,.... life is far and away too short to spend it wasted in the contemplation of "what if"
fear is a motivator,... a very powerful motivator,... but it often lends itself to very poor descisions,..... do not opporate in fear.
move on from both of them,... find option C,.... he is out there.
FYI, I hear that people keep saying marry a man who loves you, not whom you love(who does not love you back).
This first guy loves me(although with his lack of good heart, I sense, I am not sure if it is to my liking but to his best, he loves me, it seems).
So, I was confused...
i suspect at this point that the fault lies in an inability to make a descision on your part?..... eventualy your hesitance will result in circumstances making decisions FOR YOU rather than you deciding what you want to do with YOUR circumstances,.... good luck with that.
dont mean to sound short or terse,... but honey,... its the rest of your life,... if you are 40 youve already spent 50% of it,.... you are the ONLY person who can master the rest of it,.... no number of strangers in a chat forum can decide for you,....
but if we must,.... fine,.... dump the guy you love because you live in fear of failure,... by all means hook up emediately with the well monied man who can provide you with upscale cars and that "retirement plan" you seem to want,... and then get to practicing your dying words,... "i love my 401k"
does this sound harsh?..... so is a life lived at the mercy of the waves because you dont have the courage to hoist your sheets and sail.
Hi, You obviously don't love the first guy. It sounds like you don't even respect him so why even consider marrying him? I certainly can't tell you who to marry but I would say follow your heart. At one time I had two men propose to me in one week. I didn't marry either one of them. Like you, one I absolutely did not respect. The other was sweet but my heart was not fully committed to him. I am now married 19 years to a wonderful guy and I am glad I waited for "Mr. Right." I had my son at 40 and my daughter at 42. At times it has been rough financially (I abandoned my career when I had my son) but I would do it again if I had it to do all over again. I prayed a great deal and believe my husband is an answer to my prayers. Hope this helps....
Being practical, I recognize that it is hard to meet a man without "baggage" in my age. And his "worry-free" attitude(financially) is clearly noticeable9and quite refreshing and nice) having been with a guy with worry about money 24/7, not consciously, but it is pressing him heavy, subconsciously, i could feel(and it makes me down, too). And i am worried that my lover's "active" life style is soon to be over in a few years, if not sooner, due to his back problem, while i am almost peak in my life in every sense. Not that it itself is the problem because i love him, but i am afraid of the discrepancy it will generate between us, which might ruin our love in a short while. And I don't want to even think about starting over when I am in my 50s or so....
I do not respect him as a husband material who is capable of giving love.
But I do respect him as a person only because I can never disrespect any living soul.
And he thinks I am very kind (even for that, having been with so many sluts, I guess).
Regardless of the traits of each, you have to look for the following... someone who you feel physically attracted to and someone who you enjoy spending time with. Those are the two most important things. Money will come and go, as evidenced by what you described in one of the two gentlemen, so I'd rather not factor that into the equation. Don't try to make a decision like this, as if it's a business decision; and don't make a decision like this just because you're in your 40's and "tired of single life". Make the decision because you're sure you want to spend the rest of your life with whoever you choose. Good luck!
The thing is that the "failure" is changing the man I love as he is worried about money almost 24/7 subconsciously. He became workaholic(no time for me), detached(not loving), acting out more or less(out of his sense of insecurity)...I am afraid we will start argue and then just head for downhill,,, He sensed this, i think, and now he keeps working(perhaps out of fear of ruining our relationship) without communicating with me...
I am definitely attracted to the one i love and i adore his personality and pure heart and love to be around him(before he became conscious about money problem).
The guy i don't love is attracted to my looks and likes my personality, and wants to spend time with me and enjoys my company very much. But for me it's like I have to purposely entertain him out of politeness(with the one I love, it was just natural, that is, again, before he became conscious about his money)....
The most important question is which of the two men truly loves you? Having some financial muscle is good, bad eating habit can change, the one among the two men that truly loves you would stand by you what ever the situation.
Marriage is a life time commitment so are children, the older guy might not want any more children, what is the take on the younger man. My advice is never settle for less go with your heart as long as your love is reciprocated.
The first guy thinks he loves me but I think it is more like so-called selfish love. And he is not capable of recognizing it.
The second guy has true heart and he truly loves me, but his financial problem is pressing him heavily(and kind of changes him as he puts his work first and foremost), thus heavily on me, too, naturally, and it in turn makes me question his "love"...
I have been consoling myself almost a year that it is because he wants to provide for me as he loves me truly, and have been there for him.
But when this first guy reappeared and acts so worry free and confident, it was rather refreshing and nice... so confusion....
The first guy is a definite NO! There are several reasons for this, and his lack of personal qualities hints at several related problems--problems you wouldn't find out about until later. The "businessman" operating by means of "daddy's money" is a distinct and fairly common "type." You don't want to be mixed up with him OR his family.
The second guy, while he sounds like a good guy, is 25 years older than you it sounds like. In other words, about 65. While there are many possible scenarios/outcomes here, even a 65-year-old man in good health probably has few really vigorous years left. This might be okay, if you don't mind a sedentary, stay-at-home life. It could be hard for you to enjoy sharing his life, if you enjoy a vigorous, active life.
I think you need to carefully examine your reasons for wanting to marry. Maybe you're just sick of the nine-to-five and have always wanted the means to quit the daily grind and take up baking, needlework, gardening, and decorating and caring for a home. Most people would rather do something meaningful and enjoyable, as opposed to being an insurance claims adjustor, or some such thing.
Marriage to a 65-year-old man may give you that. But you should plan on spending your 50s taking care of a sick old man. You will need to love the guy and be committed to him if you're going to do that. You will need to love his grown children. And, by the way, his grown children will view you as the woman who moved in on the old guy, with an eye to getting THEIR inheritance. (Maybe you wondered why they are giving you the stink eye already.)
This man will likely live another 10-15 years. Twenty at the outside. You will then be embroiled in an ugly dispute over the estate, assuming there is any. You could easily wind up alone again, except for the step-children who hate you.
Maybe you should re-think this whole idea of getting married at all--or find someone nearer your own age, who could offer you many more years of companionship. I think a single dad who needs help raising children could be an ideal choice.
Appreciate the realistic advice...
I've never been with an old person in any circumstances(family, friends, etc) that I can hardly imagine what it would be like to be with an old man...
I was wondering about that, "the problems I would not find out until far later".
It even crossed my mind that he might be a cold blooded psychopath.
But it was my imagination working over time, I thought.
I am not sure if he is spoiled or he has some personality problem.
His sense of entitlement is kind of annoying not with me, but when I see him in social settings. Is it some form of narcissism?
I made an excuse for him like it was because he is the only son(with 2 sisters). But still...
He seems to be nice and caring when he is with me, but there is but.
I cannot pin point it out yet...
Believe it or not, I am not so experienced on this department...
I could speculate about "problems you will not find out about until later," and I could be dead wrong. But here's what I think of "rich men's sons": Their reliance on "daddy's money" is far greater than they are leading you to believe. Their "business" is likely to be unsuccessful and unprofitable. They run a business
because 1) they feel it would be beneath them to get a job (jobs are for the "little people"), and 2) because running a business is often a big help in getting some of "daddy's money" while he is still around, as opposed to waiting for the inheritance. (Daddy is likely to be receptive to investing in the "business," because it doesn't look like a hand-out.) The eagerness to marry may be related to his parents' desire for grandchildren--and in the expectation that having grandchildren might bump up his inheritance expectations or otherwise prove helpful in getting more of daddy's money.
Do you like this guy's family? What's really going on in that family? Are the guy and his sisters all hard at work competing to get as much of daddy's money as they can? For example, did the guy's parents buy his sisters a house when they married and had children? Did they enjoy some form of largesse from his parents due to having a family? If so, your guy likely feels that marriage and children will lead to getting a larger share of daddy's money.
I'm not saying that I KNOW something like this is going on. I'm just saying that there are often some very wierd family dynamics going on in these somewhat wealthy families. Often the kids have zero actual ability or ambition and have never really intended to do anything with their lives except bide their time until they inherit. What you have to look out for is the possibility that you are being used as a bargaining chip.
Besides all this, the guy sounds creepy.
Re the second guy: If he seems withdrawn, it may be because his health problems make him feel unworthy of your love. Again, he sounds like a good guy. But if you want children, you must realize that a man in his mid-sixties (and with health and financial problems) probably doesn't want children. Imagine living with a 16-year- old child and an 80-year-old man.
Much depends on what you really want. You just have to make a realistic assessment of what you are really likely to get.
The problem is, I guess, that I cannot imagine how living with 16 and 80 together would be like... because right now, everything seems fine(except the withdrawn part), as it is. He was quite healthy(before the accident), and looks quite young, for his age.
And about the #1, I was thinking more about the problems due to his mental/emotional issues that do not seem to be "normal". But again, the problem is I cannot pin point it out, as everything seems quite normal in appearance. He does all a man is supposed to say/do, more or less, but it's like... how should I put... mechanical. I cannot feel natural "humanly warmth", or so. I think my 6th sense is working or something. But then, I see men worse than that in a relationship and they are doing just fine, at least, in appearance(maybe she is the same kind, though).
FYI, he is extremely close to his parents. He often visits his parents and stays over night in their house on the weekend. They have two separate/different businesses, one run by his parents, and one run by him, but a lot of his fund is coming from his parents' business. His sisters are kind of "dumb". One is married to a gold digger. The other is just mediocre. No fuss from them. No hostile relationship, but he does not talk to his sisters often.
Now, I guess I will have to go out and find a 80 years old man and see how it is like to be around him... completely new territory for me.... sigh...
Thanks for the comment!
If you don't have a good retirement or independent financial means of some kind, don't count on "being taken care of" by your husband's estate in your later years. You need to get a handle on how you can reasonably expect to come out on this--by talking to an attorney.
I wouldn't get married to be financially taken care of. Besides, it feels good to be independent. You need to marry someone you really love. If not, your life will be unbearable with the person.
i am not looking for someone to take care of me financially.
But I won't marry someone to go through poverty together when i am not going through poverty by myself.
I have been looking for someone who truly loves me, all my life.
The first guy "loves" me, but i am not sure it's "true selfless" love since he lacks the "quality", for starters. More like selfish love i am afraid, and he does not even know it as he is not that advanced.
The second guy truly loves me, and i do too.
But he has been acting weird (kind of taking it out on me) probably due to his perception about his failure, and it does not make us happy together. I think he is aware of it to some degree, so he is fully focusing on his work, instead, rather intentionally, perhaps to avoid me, perhaps out of his own insecurity, perhaps out of depression, perhaps wanting to make up the loss, etc.(while the first guy is pursuing me very actively), and it makes me question about his love for me... so confusion...
Well, I am not going to add to the confusion...life is short and one never knows what will happen next to turn the entire equation around...
You mentioned you don't have kids..are you looking to have kids later on(your biological clock is ticking away) ...
You say the first guy is selfish but has no kids and the second guy you love but he has 3 kids...if you keep waiting for someone perfect to come along you'll be waiting all your life.
No matter which guy you marry, marriage will never be perfect so listen to your heart.
I want to have my own baby.
I would love to have a baby with the man I love.
But a couple of weeks ago on, I am just letting God or the Mother Nature takes care of the baby thing as my biological clock is ticking and that I don't want to have a baby with anyone (whom I don't love).
I don't know what to do anymore.
I can have a baby like tomorrow if I decided to go with the first guy.
With the second guy I love, it seems I have to wait till he becomes financially secure again, if any.
I really don't know except that I fell in love with this guy for his pure heart.
And I am afraid that I might not be able to meet anyone with whom I feel this way in this life time.
So messy, it seems...
your acting as if its an A or B choice,.... search for C
ok... whew.... from scratch again...
When I met this second guy, knowing i love him definitely, I put the period on searching further...and I got used to it(and then I found out he is in his mid 60s, not mid 50s, and he has serious back problem, and that he has serious financial problem). So, it was hard to reopen that arena...
And I was afraid that I would never be able to meet anyone with whom I feel this way again, in this life time, within a couple of years, that is, considering my age...
Maybe what you really want is a baby? Only you know what it is you really want, of course. The first guy sounds like he would be a HORRIBLE parent. You definitely don't want to have a child with a man who would be a horrible parent. The second guy is almost certainly too old for parenthood.
Maybe you should just take stock of your resources and decide if you want to have a child on your own. If it's family life and love you're looking for, a child will give you a better shot at that than a man, anyway. Not saying that there might not be men out there who would be good parents, but the ones currently on your horizon are either cold and selfish, or a trifle elderly.
While being a single mom isn't easy, it beats these alternatives.
Hi, I am not an expert, but I am going to say one thing: You are not in the age bracket where you have lots of choices so you should not be confused. Look for what you want in life. You want easy going life, go with the first guy. i know many people here would not agree with me. But, if I am not right then you would not have asked this question in the first place. You are here taking suggestions because in you mind you are set for the guy #1 but you also want the romance part in your life without any hassle or nursing the guy with back pain. SO, I suggest you live upto your expectation and go with the not so smart one.
I appreciate your comment. I do need realistic advice.
My mind was set for the #2, my real love, when I posted this.
I thought about it hard, for months.
I understand that he will be almost immobile in about 20 years, if not sooner due to back problem.
But I thought I could make the best of 20 years with my love.
And there is no guarantee that the younger guy will not be sick, or will not get into an accident or will not even get killed(and I don't want to live alone).
But people keep saying #1 is better in the long run and accused me of an unrealistic dreamer and it was confusing.
They say #2 does not make enough money to buy his expensive med(and possible surgeries in the future) now, and he will be in terrible condition without med/surgery.
I am not sure how factual it might be but it made me wonder if I was being pathetically naive(since I am not so experienced on this department having been studying/working all my life).
But having read posts here, I am afraid that #1 will leave me when I need my lover most, like when i get sick, especially if it is within the next 5 years while his parents are in control, not that I expect to be sick, though.
And he does not bring "happiness" in my heart, so, I am not sure if it will be "easy" life..
He likes me alright and enjoys me in every sense, but to me it is like "serving", not coming naturally(but he is still ok with it probably not even recognizing it for starters as he is just selfish and self-centered, for starters. As long as his needs are satisfied, he does not really care how I feel).
Adnd then they say that it is ok to marry a man who loves you even though you don't love. And #1 thinks he loves me. He does not know what love really is, so his selfish love is really best for him to bring out from his selfish being, it seems....
On the other hand, #2 is a very caring person by nature...
I thought we had been warned that threads like this were, more likely than not, hoaxes?
What do you mean by that?
You mean this is a made up story?
why would I, or anyone do that?
Who warned you? The hub site?
I am just speechless.
Thread like what?
What part of the story sounds like a hoax?
This is true story I have been suffering with for over a year.
I found overly clever people distasteful...
On second thought...
I must have been completely blinded to have put myself into the situation over a year that sounds like a hoax to some people...
That's really an eye opening to me... much better than what people keep saying, that is, I am too naive.
I really would appreciate if you could let me know what part of the story sounds like a hoax.
Having been in the situation for such a long time, I cannot see what seems so crazy and what seems normal, anymore.
by Elena 5 months ago
If a person has divorced 3 times, would you conclude that the person has an underlying problem?
by MeGunner 8 years ago
From perhaps every human perspective, advice on issues about marriage tend to have the undertone of endurance... like it's just a neccessary 'evil' we all should pass through. Of course I know many people don't stay married for long but I think many hoped to. And the emphasis on the negatives seem...
by Mikeydoes 7 years ago
Nothing against your spouse if you have one, but in a different life, knowing what you know now, would you get married?Being 24 I have a tough decision to make, and I haven't decided.
by richtwf 2 years ago
With an increasing number of married couples ending in divorce - Do you think that divorce is a too easy way out and that a couple should work harder to make their relationship work?No marriage is perfect and couples have to work hard and be willing to make compromises to make a marriage work....
by Haunty 7 years ago
My friend says it's old fashioned to get married, but he fails to explain why. I have to admit I'm biased towards getting married when two ppl love each other. I don't understand why they wouldn't. Can you enlighten me as to why it's better to not get married? Thanks.
by TheFrenchTraveler 8 years ago
Is it just a state of mind? Does it really exist? Does it happen overnight or is the destine for everyone that gets hitched
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