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"DIRTY" sex

  1. qwark profile image61
    qwarkposted 7 years ago

    Why is viewing people participating in "sexual" activity, considered to be "DIRTY" and is anathema to "morality," while "OBSCENE" pictures and movies of people being killed and mutilated in war and crime can be watched by folks of any age...publicly, without any consideration of "immorality?" Isn't that hypocrisy to the "nth" degree?

    1. Davinagirl3 profile image61
      Davinagirl3posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. Yes, it is.

      1. qwark profile image61
        qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Davin:
        Thanks for your honesty! :-)

      2. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Davina, we missed you here smile

    2. profile image0
      cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      i agree. i have known people who let their very small children watch all kinds of horribly scary and violent shows on tv, blood and all, but shield their eyes if a beautiful woman walks on the screen showing cleavage. very strange...

      1. blondepoet profile image74
        blondepoetposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Oh that is spot on. They don't cover their eyes on the 6.00 news where it is all violent yet cover their eyes in a low level sex scene in a movie. Shouldn't it be both. What is the go with that Flo?

        1. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It should be neither if you ask me smile

      2. qwark profile image61
        qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Cosette:
        What would make them do that?

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          The santity religion upholds as a virtue. The act of sex is only permitted between two married adults. This tradition is still handed down generation to generation, age after age, and mixed up differently in all cultures.

          The is no uniformed view, because of religious doctrines and views, and influence. smile

        2. profile image0
          cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          one time we visted some friends who had two daughters. one was 5 and one was 13. this was before my son was born. anyway, we were all having dinner then settled in to watch Midnight Express. i am sure you know how awful that film is. great, but not for children by any stretch. anyway, their 5-year-old was running in and out and watching it and i said 'um, should she be watching this?' and they go 'oh yeah kids are resilient' and the film got worse as it progressed, and she watched many of the awful scenes, including where Billy goes berserk and pulls that man's tongue out with his teeth. the girl's eyes got as big as saucers and i tried to distract her, and they said 'reLAX, geeze, it's all fake!' and she continued to watch it, then the one scene that was a shining moment in the film...the one moment where he finds his humanity again, when his girlfriend visits him and bares her breasts to him, they leaped up and covered her eyes going 'DON'T LOOK!'....

          oh boy. roll








          i think in general, Americans are uptight about sex and glorify violence to some degree.

    3. wsp2469 profile image61
      wsp2469posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, of COURSE it is!
      Now explain that to Google and adsense and let them explain it to the admin.
      You know, when my youngest son was only 11 I took him to see "Watchmen".  he knew he was supposed to cover his eyes during "the inappropriate parts".  WHAT are the so-called inappropriate parts?  The parts where characters make love.
      People thought it wasn't a good idea to take him because of the sex.  No one gave a sh*t that my son would be seeing all the violence in the movie. 
      Welcome to America.  It's okay for my son to see guys who are supposed to be the good guys literally raping, beating and killing people in many and numerous graphic fashions BUT --God-- NO!  Do NOT let him see people making love!

    4. profile image0
      Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I disagree with both of the premises you present. Watching others engage in the act of sex isn`t considered dirty` however it is considered inappropriate to display for all to see without a choice. The same is true for war atrocites, killing etc. though some news agencies like al jerzera will show raw and graphic footage, most in the USA avoid that.

    5. profile image0
      Justine76posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I had no idea people of all ages can see images of mutilation, and it is considered moral. Last time I checked, it is considered wrong?
      (also, to view someone having sex, im assuming you mean pornography? To sneak up and watch people without thier permission is wrong)...
      wait..Im so confused here...who said sex was dirty?

    6. prettydarkhorse profile image62
      prettydarkhorseposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      it goes with privacy, are you confident of your body? problem with body image?

      the culture has soemthing to say about this, how restrictive the culture is

      I dont want anybody looking at me when I make love, it is a scared act for me and my loved one, it is not for show, just the two of us

      1. qwark profile image61
        qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Pretty:
        I don't think anyone wants top be seen as he murders someone either...it's a personal thing.

  2. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Hey qwark, trying to stir the pot? lol

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Cag:
      Hahaha..hell yes!
      Lets see if "hubbers" have the "gonads" to approach this honestly...:-)

  3. Mamelody profile image61
    Mamelodyposted 7 years ago

    you know I've been asking that question for ages and never got a straight answer..

    1. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I can give you a crooked one,if you like !
      tongue

      1. Mamelody profile image61
        Mamelodyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        go on then.. let's hear it tongue

        1. tantrum profile image59
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sex is orgasmic. Violence is not.

          1. Mamelody profile image61
            Mamelodyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            sounds good to me.. we'll go with the crooked version then wink

    2. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Mame:
      ...lets see if ya get one this time...:-)

  4. Bill Manning profile image70
    Bill Manningposted 7 years ago

    Yes all that stuff is screwed up. So many say how porn is bad and all that, while they watch it themselves. I really think it's people that just can't let go and admit they like it.

    Sex and porn (yes, porn is sex) is completely natural and every healthy person likes it to some degree. Yet everyone hates wars and violence.

    We should all be able to watch full hardcore porn on TV if we can also watch people getting killed.

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Bill:
      Amen brother Amen!
      What role do you think a religiously inclined American populace plays in this hypocrisy?
      I think MASSIVELY!

    2. cheaptrick profile image75
      cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      PORN is Natural?
      What Sites do You watch?

  5. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    By the same token sex abusers get way more outrage in the populace than killers. Always puzzled me smile

    Definitely has to do with bible, and the culture built over it. smile

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Misha:
      Have ya come to any conclusions?
      If ya have, share 'em  :-)
      I didn't see the bible aspect Mish.
      I must agree with ya.

      1. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        No apparent conclusions other that this phenomenon is specific to judeo-christian-muslim group of religions. They all despise sex and accept violence - just read the books. But I bet you read them already. smile

        1. wyanjen profile image87
          wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          ditto
          smile

        2. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Mish:
          You guessed right! :-)
          ...and you are right on!
          If ya read the bible, the torah and the qur'an, all 3 create deviance in sexual activity if not engaged in with the thought of procreation in mind....The joy and pleasure of "casual" sex is "sinful" ...to even lust for it, displeasures god/allah...lol

    2. megs78 profile image60
      megs78posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't see how this is so puzzling...

  6. Tom Cornett profile image55
    Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago

    That is a great question.  Watching the act of human butchering vs watching the act of human pleasure.  One would think that human pleasure would be far more acceptable.  Maybe it is just acceptable insanity?  hmm

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Tom:
      Both sex and death are normal and natural.
      sex is a positive, creative act.
      Death is the final act.
      Killing, mutilating, causing great human pain and suffering is a "destructive" act!
      Why is it ok to view, with impunity, the obscene "destructive" acts and not the "creative" ones?
      ...and...to top it off, call the natural sexual act and enjoyment derived: "DIRTY!?"

      1. Tom Cornett profile image55
        Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        My best guess it that sex was made dirty by people who weren't getting any...more than likely a manipulation of popular religion.

        Killing is made glorious by war and makes some humans feel like little gods.  You've probably heard that rape isn't about sex...it's about control.  Death is the ultimate control.

        1. Mamelody profile image61
          Mamelodyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Now that I believe 100%! when I was kid we were told that sex is bad and its for bad people only and I believed it until I lost my virginity.. f**** wasted such precious time! tongue

  7. qwark profile image61
    qwarkposted 7 years ago

    I posted a question that related to this biblical god thing allowing the rape of baby girls in scripture.
    Did any of you follow the responses I got?
    They made me think, to an even greater degree than before the question was asked, that the MAJORITY of people who say "read the bible for answers," haven't read it. They just follow what the equally ignorant sunday school teacher and the minister preach to them as being truth....it's scary!
    To me, they are following the same script as followers of islam and judaism....lies being taught as truths to todays youth..tomorrows leaders....even scarier! :-(

    1. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ahem...not too 'butt' in. The Creator is not a dial-up number when someone suddenly needs emergency help. Everything man does is their choice. If one chooses to hurt another, how -pray tell- is that the Creators fault? Seriously. It is fascinating the level of people, religious or not, denying their own personal responsibility. Just 'f-ing' unbelievable.

      take porn for example: blatant sexual expression where every sexually aloof human can indulge their 'desire' turn around and go out raping and molesting people cuz they need to get off.
      again, unbelievable...

      just sayin` grow up Moe.

      1. qwark profile image61
        qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        21:
        Lololol....when you grow up and your mind is functioning as a mature adult, I hope that, along the way, you include lots of educational experiences.
        At the moment there is an obvious dirth of "understanding" in your ludicrous comments.
        I know you think you are offering wonderous and meaningful advice, but when I read your comments, I lol and roll my eyes back in utter disbelief....
        I know you mean well, but, study, research and think b4 ya publicly ram foot in mouth...jeez...
        I say this with the deepest respect and understanding in ref to your lack of intellect.
        Damn, am I being too rough on 21?..oh well...:-(

  8. Tom Cornett profile image55
    Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago

    The first command was "Go forth and multiply."  I don't think it was about learning math.
    God (If you believe there is one) made sex beautiful...religion made it dirty.

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Tom:
      If there were a "god" thing and "it" did create us, wouldn't it be "psychotic" to have created us knowing full well how we'd enjoy sex? To make it a sin to participate except for the purpose of procreation? If that were "it's" desire, why not make us come into heat 1nce or twice a year?
      I think this biblical god thing is an insane nut who escaped from some "heavenly" institution for the mentally deranged...:-)

      1. Tom Cornett profile image55
        Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe an extreme sense of humor?

        1. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Tom:
          Perverted humor! :-)

      2. megs78 profile image60
        megs78posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Sex is a beautiful thing.  Why do you make God out to be against it except for procreation?  humans did that.  religion did that.  God is not a prude for heavens sake.  we were meant to enjoy sex.

    2. Friendlyword profile image59
      Friendlywordposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And Religion has nothing to do with God.  God could care less about who and what sex you are having.  Uptight men and religion create lies then say it's gods word.  Men lie on God to control other Men and Women.  How do think Old Dirty Nasty Men get away with f''''' king young girls?

  9. profile image0
    TheVerbalAxiomposted 7 years ago

    I agree with you.

    Don't tell a kid not to watch a porn if you let him watch Scarface.

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Axiom:
      My g/f's daughter who is 16 says she gets hot watching soft sex on the "soaps." C'mon, lol get real folks, ya can't win against natural hormone attacks...:-)

  10. goldenpath profile image73
    goldenpathposted 7 years ago

    Although I really don't see the connection between the hypocrisy present being caused from religion I do agree that it is extreme hypocrisy to keep pushing the envelope of compromise.  Violence, in it's increasing degrees, desensitizes the population of adults and children.  It may or may not affect how they deal with each other but certainly affects how they view and "decision make" in situations.

    Although one is violence and one is sex there is little difference in the agenda.  It desensitizes.  However, in this instance it demeans and belittles the purpose and beautiful nature of what it's all about.  It strips and captions "no harm" in all sexuality especially when exhibited prior to marriage, out in public, on film, with beasts or other unacceptable people and/or objects.

    In both instances the agenda is to coax the viewer into the mindset that strict disciplining of the mind, body and spirit is not necessary for personal growth to occur.  On the contrary it does send the message that "anything goes" without fear of consequences.

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Goldenpath:
      I know you are a religiously oriented man.
      May I ask what facet of monotheistic belief you adhere to?
      Or amI being presumptuous in labeling you as a monotheist?
      TY

      1. goldenpath profile image73
        goldenpathposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am a leader in the Latter-day Saint faith.  However, it is the same view on this subject as many other people of faith and of no faith at all alike.

        I'm not trying to stir any pot, just stating that my view of sexual activity is very special and sacred and was never meant to be demeaned or portrayed in a common manner.

        People do get stimulation from violence as well.  The danger is putting both activities in the same boat.

        1. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Goldenpath:
          Sexual activity and violence are natural to the human creature.
          it has been involved in both from it's birth as an ancient hominid millions of yrs ago.
          May I ask why you consider the natural creative act of sex to be "sacred?"
          Why do you consider the viewing of it to "deamen" the act?
          We are a dangerous animal species. Our history give us ample evidence of that. Violence is part and parcel of our genetic programming as earth's prime predator.
          The bible is rife with death and destruction. The biblical god ordered the death of the entire human species!
          Is it no wonder that if this biblical god created us in "it's" image and is guilty of murder and other maniacal activities, that we would be guilty of the same psychotic absurdities?
          Hmmm?

          1. goldenpath profile image73
            goldenpathposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I see your point.

            Because we have the ability to do something (violence and sexual activity etc.) should not necessarily mean we should exploit it in all it's forms.

            Yes, I consider it sacred.  Why?  A man and a woman in the joining act are partnered in a godly sense.  That is, they are employing powers of creation.  Creation in this sense is something that God shares.  This is one of the many reason why we uphold women to such a high status.  They have been deemed special to the degree that they thus become "co-creators" with God.  Sure, you are supposed to take pleasure in it but it is an activity to be delighted in behind closed doors between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wed.  That is my answer to the question you have respectfully posed and I thank you for the opportunity to explain it.

            Violence.  Yes, the Bible and all other sacred texts are rife with violence.  Violence is to be loathed.  However, that's violence in it's raw nature.  Warfare, on the other hand, I believe have been justified from time to time and even commanded of God at times to bring about a greater purpose.  These would include the conquering of Holy Lands by the Hebrews after the Exodus.  Those lands were promised them hundreds of year prior and at the right time that land needed cleansing of the people exercising the same degraded activities we are discussing here.  Even though distasteful there is such a thing as necessary warfare.  I could site many other instances but it would be on no value at this point.

            1. qwark profile image61
              qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Goldenpath:
              Lets, respectfully, discuss this.
              Before we do, I must ask you this question. Your answer will position me properly, intellectually, in reference to your "hub" response:

              Do you consider the biblical god to be omniscient and omnipotent?

              1. goldenpath profile image73
                goldenpathposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, sir I do.

                I believe that He has all power and authority.  I believe that through Him Jesus Christ and appointed others created the Earth.  I believe that creation has no beginning and no end.  I believe that through the authority and power of the chain of Gods uncounted worlds have been created and destroyed but all with a common purpose - the immortality and eternal life of man.

                I believe the essential part of the design of our existence as well as Earth and all other worlds that have been, are and will yet be is the principle of agency or the ability to choose.  Through this ability to choose we are able to opt to pervert and distort the very things that are holy in nature.  That is part of the vice in all things.  Yet still it's agency.

                I believe that man's design must be viewed in a much broader perspective than just the death and destruction that goes on here in life.  I believe that God has such an eternal outlook on the potential of man.  The Adversary, however, does not have this ability.  His outlook is shortsighted and seeks immediate gratification and extends that hunger to all of us through temptation.  This is essential to understand.  God is able to use the shortsighted plans of the Adversary for the greater good.  The individual battles and scenic bloodshed of warfare through rage is of the Adversary but in the long outlook God's will must triumph.

                These thoughts link to the threads question.  The purpose of sexual appetites are, at base, sacred in nature and have an eternal purpose.  However, we through the Adversary, have the agency to pervert this ability and do so often.  We also kill and murder people and beasts for personal gratification.  God has deemed certain bloodshed for higher purposes yet man has perverted those purposes to match the Adversary's and thus feels "justified" in their actions.

                We as a people shun, degrade or outright reject God for the simple reason of all the disgust in the world.  On the flipside it exists for the very reason we all rejoiced for Him in the beginning - agency.  He allows these things as part of His promise to us - that we would have the ability to choose in this life.  However, He decides the consequences not us and we desecrate His name when we disapprove of those consequences.

                I am getting long-winded again but I do thank you in advance for a respectable conversation quark. smile

                1. qwark profile image61
                  qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Goldenpath:
                  My father was a mormon.
                  I remember the young men on bicycles wearing black pants and white shirts, also black ties, if I remember correctly, visiting our home and proselytizing their beliefs to him. He was a baptist prior to becoming a mormon.
                  Thanks for the lengthy response...lol
                  Since you believe that god is both omniscient and omnipotent, and I'm going to presume that you believe that god is "perfect," wouldn't it be obvious that this god already knew the future of all life "it" created? Of course it would be.
                  Why would an "omniscient" perfect god create an imperfect "man and woman" knowing full well "it" would be involved in the mass murder of all "it's" creations but a few, in an alledged arc, sometime in the future?
                  If this god is "omnipotent," one must presume that it could also have, realizing the above, created the perfection of itself in all it created? "...let us create man in our image."
                  I spent 2 1/2 years in baptist seminary in my early 20's.
                  I became a biblical scholar in my prep for the pulpit. Ah but I went far beyond the knowledge of my "teachers." I also began to study the fields of anthropology, geology, cosmology, physics, chemistry, philosophy, ontology..on and on and on.
                  I asked questions of my "teachers" they couldn't answer. They would respond with answers like this: "you must have faith my child."
                  Finally, I was asked to leave because I couldn't accept the writings of a very corrupted bible as being truth.
                  I studied the rise of man's religions and the evolution of the 3 major monotheistic cults.
                  I then began to study the evolution of modern man and his "bent" for beliefs in the supernatural.
                  It became obvious to me that as man's sophistication grew, his god's became more sophisticated in nature until he arrived at a point in time where his gods become abstract concepts which can neither be proved or disproved.
                  I look back at my experience as a seminarian and consider it to be a "blessing" because, in the long run, it was responsible for the kind of life I have led and for the wonderful education I have completed.
                  I consider it to have been extremely valuable because if they had not asked me to leave, I would have missed so much in life that I was meant to experience.

                2. profile image0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Excellent summation, GP.
                  Man must 'rise above' his self imposed limitation -his conscious/awareness- OF said temptations; whereby releasing him from the 'golden chains' and allowing him to be as was -i believe- the original plan.


                  PS, Sir Quark,
                  this is what i meant by that statement in the Noah thread regarding man accepting a lower form of living than was he design/purpose.

                  as one can draw from even this thread, the proof of that limitation is ever so evident. (regardless of culture, theology, method, oaths, hypocrisy or otherwise. One may see the universe in a speck of dust yet not understand the fullness of it).

  11. profile image0
    L. Andrew Marrposted 7 years ago

    The question is (and I ask this with no specific answer in mind), is porn a work of art?

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Marr:
      it could be. No doubt about that.
      Look up the definition of pornography. That should answer your question.

      1. profile image0
        L. Andrew Marrposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        "Porn - creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire."

        I suppose it's no worse than a nude painting or an erotic poem really.

        1. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You need to account for the fact that author(s) of this definition belongs to the culture deeply rooted in judeo-christian religion. smile

          1. profile image0
            L. Andrew Marrposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Should that matter though?
            Isn't it a question as to whether it is art, not whether religion has an influence in it?

            (Btw, I think I may have misunderstood your point - it wasn't the clearest ever. In which case I apologise)

            1. Misha profile image74
              Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              LOL The point pretty much was that everything is in the eyes of the beholder.

              This particular definition of porn bears negative connotation, which I would attribute to beholders - who are no doubt of western culture (they speak english, right?), which is based on judeo-christian religion. smile

              To me quite a bit of what western people define as porn does have artistic (or rather aesthetic, to be precise) value, otherwise I don't bother looking at it smile

              1. qwark profile image61
                qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Misha:
                Right!

              2. profile image0
                L. Andrew Marrposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Haha, why didn't you say that in the first place?
                Haha, yeah, I'm with you now. I agree.

                1. Misha profile image74
                  Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL I sorta said - but I used a few shortcuts that obviously did not work for you smile

                  1. profile image0
                    L. Andrew Marrposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    My simple mind could not piece it together...smile

        2. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Marr:
          Visit the Louvre in Paris.
          View some of the "art" displayed privately.
          Beautiful paintings by some of the "masters" portraying the sex act in a variety of ways...
          The Kama Sutra and Indian sculptures and reliefs which could be construed by some to be porn....
          My belief is that "porn" is in the mind of the beholder....
          At the right time, when certain hormones become active...I might be able to masturbate and orgasm viewing the Mona Lisa.  :-)
          Is my point made?

          1. shazwellyn profile image82
            shazwellynposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            My mind needs a good scrubbing then! heck! big_smile

            1. Misha profile image74
              Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, in the shower. I can help you wink

          2. profile image0
            L. Andrew Marrposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Your point is made very well indeed.
            I really want to live in Paris for a year because I think it'll inspire my artistic temprement (I'm currently an 18yr old student but am going on to do English Literature and Creative Writing next year at university - from there I want to become an author).
            I don't see what you see in the Mona Lisa though, she just isn't the woman for me tongue

            'Andromeda' by Gustave Dore however, phwoooorrrrr tongue
            lol

            1. qwark profile image61
              qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Marr:
              Hell, when my testosterone levels rise, I chase cockroaches and try to flip 'em over on their backs before they disappear under the fridge.....lol
              Andromeda?are you talking about the Greek mythical princess of Ethiopia? ...or a painting of the galaxy?..
              I'd love to see it....do ya have a site for me?

              1. profile image0
                L. Andrew Marrposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Andromeda - Gustave Dore:

                http://www.illusionsgallery.com/Andromeda-Dore.html

                La Promenade - Claude Monet

                http://www.artquotes.net/masters/monet/la-promenade.htm

                Two of my favourite paintings smile

          3. profile image0
            cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            hey, did you know that art historians are conducting tests on the Mona Lisa (facial comparisons, etc. with computer software) to see if the Mona Lisa is really a self portrait by DaVinci? wink

            1. Sara Tonyn profile image59
              Sara Tonynposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I saw that. The question has come up many times there was no way to answer it with proof. Maybe they'll finally figure it out now. smile

  12. blondepoet profile image74
    blondepoetposted 7 years ago

    I'm a good girl I keep my eyes to myself. Ho hum!!

  13. Daniel Carter profile image90
    Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago

    Any one thing, any word or thought could either be good or bad depending on intent.

    There are words that are used as weapons. Bodies and body parts are used as weapons. Virtually *anything* can be used as a weapon, depending on intent. And in the very same way, any of these things can also be used for good.

    So, viewing sex, to me can be bad, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. We also think it's very, very good under certain conditions. If it instills thoughts of harm, or negative actions against self or any other person, then you can classify it any way you want to, but if it doesn't bring good, it's just bad (to me). Murder, violence, etc., can be pretty much viewed the same way, to me.

    I think my views of these types of things are rather simplistic, but I also think that's part of the beauty of it. Anyone can understand it, really, even though they may choose to disregard it.

  14. goldenpath profile image73
    goldenpathposted 7 years ago

    Yes, yes and yes!  To all!

    He does know the ends from the beginning.

    The conditions with Adam and Eve and the Garden were perfect for this sphere was literally near God unlike now so He did create a type of "perfection" in the beginning.

    The answer to all the questions though still comes back to that unparalleled gift of agency.  We cannot achieve our full potential without agency.  This is why Adam and Eve are now in an exalted state.  Because they transgressed they now know sorrow and the bounty in good - just as God, Himself, had to journey through.

    The individuals who commit haneous acts in this life were not like this in the beginning.  ALL who have a physical body accepted the Plan of the Father and the Son and accepted the need of the Son to serve as a sacrifice that we may have the mere opportunity to return to Father's presence.  Our body is a physical and tangible token of that acceptance and our keeping of our First Estate.  Knowing the need of this sacrifice from the beginning means that God and all of us knew that because of the great gift of agency many of us would fall away but it was the only way, through agency, to eventually become perfected like unto the Father.  We can force someone to learn math but their love for it and expanded knowledge of it would not take place unless they learned it through agency - choosing to learn math and choosing to apply it.  It's the exact same principle.

    Part of the Plan from the beginning was the Fall and the fallen nature of man throughout the history of the Earth.  In the end it is the separation of the wheat from the tares.  Who is proven worthy of exaltation and who has not proven worthy - through agency.  This is why there are three main degrees of glory and an innumerable "sub-degrees".  Why?  Because we are all different and make varied choices yet He loves each of us and bestows glory upon us according to our works and knowledge that we will obtain.  Through our agency we may also find ourselves willfully proving ourselves worthy of Outer Darkness.

    This is the point of the whole thing.  WE choose our destiny according to how we conduct our affairs in this life.

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Goldenpath:
      I am and will always be a "thinker," pragmatist and logician until I get Alzheimers and am instituted..:-)
      What you just wrote makes absolutely no sense at all..
      I asked you why, if your perfect god is omniscient and omnipotent, didn't it create the perfection of itself in us?
      "It" had the power and the insight.
      Your last paragraph, in part reads:

      "...Part of the Plan from the beginning was the Fall and the fallen nature of man throughout the history of the Earth.  In the end it is the separation of the wheat from the tares.  Who is proven worthy of exaltation and who has not proven worthy -"


      An "omniscient" god would already know all of the above.
      Doing this, for the reason you state, could only mean to a "thinker," that this god is not "omniscient" or that "it" created imperfection in man to play with it in a very deadly manner... which would mean to a "thinker," that this god is also not perfect. "It" has very man-like flaws in character.
      All you write is but opinion Goldenpath, based upon your religious education.
      To a "thinker" your presentation would differ not one iota from that of an islamic or judaic fundamentalist.
      To a "thinker" it's all "rigmarole."
      ...but thanks for being honest and respectful.
      I always respond the same. :-)

  15. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    I guess this thread should be re-classified into Religion section lol

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Misha:
      lol...seems so...:-)

    2. goldenpath profile image73
      goldenpathposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry to be out of tune but just answering a question.  Sorry if I've prompted someone to inquire a religious question.  Out of respect for the thread intended purpose I will relinquish such answers on this thread.

      Thanks for the correction.

      1. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It was not really directed at anybody, it was rather an observation of the course that this thread turned to smile

        1. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Misha:
          ...but I knew it would.
          The influence of religion is so powerfull in America that when I presented this question, there was no doubt in my mind that responses would eventually be related to "religion."
          How could anyone who lives here think anything else?
          I've travelled to europe for instance and was pleasantly surprised at how relaxed and accepting they are of nudity and the subject of sex.
          We are much too uptight here. The reason is based solidly on religious rigidity.

  16. goldenpath profile image73
    goldenpathposted 7 years ago

    I am a thinker as well.  I always apply science into my faith.

    He has instilled perfection in us.  We are literal offspring of Him.  Were it not so we would not have the potential promised that we have.  Even though God knows the ends from the beginning does not mean that the Plan cannot and should not go forward.  We were all different in the pre-existence with varying degrees of valiance and faithfulness.  It's called individuality.  We were given this in that existence every bit as much as we were given our gender identity.

    Remember the refiner's fire.  He places us in the fires of trial and tribulation just to the point that His own reflection is seen in us.  That is the spark of perfection from Him in us.  Only then are we ready to move on to greater understanding and higher levels of testing.  All this for what?  Eventual perfection.

    I understand that none of this makes sense to you.  As you've stated I have had teachings differ from the one's you have had.  That doesn't mean they make any less sense than the opinions you have.

    For me when I remember the foundation principle of the entire universe is agency it all makes sense to me - everything.  Even greater do I look forward to the great work and events to take place during the millenium.  Those teachings really help bring things full circle for me. 

    Perhaps one should not so much pick and choose what God is or isn't but rather identify the possibility that through Him we have our agency.  If we have agency than there must be a promised potential for correct judgements on our part and a vice consequence for incorrect decisions.  This concept makes sense and gives us direction when contemplating the ills of this world.

    At the beginning the Adversary wanted to strip us of this great gift of agency.  Through pride he wanted the glory for himself.  This is why God "chose the first".  Had Lucifer's plan been instituted none of us would have ever been able to realize our full potential because the agency to strive toward that potential would not have been there or existed.

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Goldenpath:
      Can't buy it. Sorry.
      None of what you opine would be necessary if this god was perfect, omniscient and omnipotent.
      You offer opinion and conjecture and that's really all I expect of any monotheist and to date, none have surprised me.
      You are a gentleman. that is appreciated :-)

  17. habee profile image90
    habeeposted 7 years ago

    I don't like seeing violent acts. It makes me physically ill.

  18. cupid51 profile image44
    cupid51posted 7 years ago

    In my opinion sexual activity should not be considered as DIRTY. This is the most important and vital activity by any living being to maintain the creation of GOD. (It can be called NATURE also if the term GOD creates any controversy here).
    But I also believe that the public exhibition of that activity may create social problems. It is not necessary to exhibit everything which is natural. If you think so than human being need not have to be dressed up, all can show up their body which is natural and God gifted.

  19. theirishobserver. profile image57
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    In Ireland our moral leaders for centuries have been the Catholic Church, they have moralised from the pulpit on Sunday mornings about people drinking and phornicating, now we have learned through two independent reports The Ryan Report and the Murphy Report, that behind closed doors and with the protection of the State these same moralisers were raping and molesting thousands of children, I think morality usually comes from those who have most to hide.......

  20. megs78 profile image60
    megs78posted 7 years ago

    Sex abusers brutalize the souls of their victims but leave them to live with the remnants of what they once were.  this is especially true when it involves children.  there is nothing more heinous if you ask me.

    1. Misha profile image74
      Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Nah Megs, I think they don't. If those souls were not conditioned to believe that sex is dirty, no special harm would be possible. Our culture's mantra that sex is an evil all by itself is mainly responsible for psychological problems following sex abuse. smile

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        oh good grief, are you for real? yikes

        sex abusers DON'T brutalize the souls of their victims?

        it is the simple fact that a culture says sex is dirty is what actually causes the brutalization? and "no special harm would be possible" if not for societal "hang-ups"?

        and cultural perception that sex is evil is what causes psychological problems in children who are victimized in this fashion?

        really?

        exactly how does a two- or three-year-old child have any concept of sex, good or bad? no one tells a very small child how "evil" sex is. there are adults who sexually abuse infants. and you say that that in and of itself isn't what brutalizes them, sometimes beyond repair?

        it amazes me that you can't even consider how heinous the scenario in itself is: a giant adult using a tiny innocent child who has no concept of sex in any capacity at all in such a horrible fashion against their will -




        ugh, whatever Misha. yikes

      2. megs78 profile image60
        megs78posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I think I may have misunderstood what you meant by 'sex abusers'.  I thought you were talking about molesters.  sorry bout that.

        I, too, find it strange how there is such a strong reaction to sex but how people are completely alright with violence.

        Here in quebec, there are different views.  sex is talked about and people are not afraid to be open etc. (just watch some of our local channels to get an idea).  on the other hand, quebeckers abhor violence and the war.

        1. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No need to apologize, you did not abuse me in any way smile

          I did not specifically address child molesters, but I did not exclude them either. What I said refers to those cases, too. I still maintain that sex abuse really hurts as any other abuse because of the violence involved - and the sexual part of it gives extra problems only because of our culture's take on sex. Hope this makes sense. smile

          1. megs78 profile image60
            megs78posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            ok, this does not make any sense at all.  NONE!  as Cossette said earlier, how do kids know anything at all in the first place?  I think you are confused Misha, and possibly, you've never been abused and so you don't understand and CAN'T understand.  An adult who abuses a child is deviant and sex is no longer beautiful to him or her whatever the case may be.  In this case, I cannot even bear that you would think this way...

  21. thisisoli profile image54
    thisisoliposted 7 years ago

    I actually read a book about this recently, I will have to dig it out, it basically boiled down to how worrying it was that 'Hate is acecptable in todays society' and 'love is unacceptable in todays society'.

    There were a few arguments against it, many films are absed around love for example, but the book also pointed out that waht made these films interesting was generally an affair, or some other 'evil' event.

  22. Aya Katz profile image86
    Aya Katzposted 7 years ago

    Misha, while I sympathize with your position on this issue, I think it is a little more complicated than that. It also has to do with the mind/body dichotomy and with the assertion of most humans, both liberal and conservative, that human beings are in a category all by themselves, unlike other animals, no matter how closely related. 

    The sex act, as performed and experienced by humans, involves involuntary sensations that we share with many other animals. While it has been linked in our minds with our more spiritual and intellectual feelings, the fact is that sexual sensations are entirely separable. Guilt experienced by rape victims often involves positive physical reactions that have nothing to do with the higher functions of the mind.

    Americans and other Westerners are now into wholesale castration of the entire canine population (ostensibly as a form of birth control) but really so they don't have to witness their dogs' sex lives close up and see how similar they are to our own.

  23. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    I don't see any contradiction here Aya, all what you said is still rooted in our cultural prejudices, which in turn stem from judeo-christian brand of religion. Guilty as charged in not naming all of them though. smile

  24. Aya Katz profile image86
    Aya Katzposted 7 years ago

    Misha, okay. I agree, there's no contradiction between what you said and what I said. It's just that many people will protest that they don't think sex is dirty, they think it's a spiritual thing. But... when faced the reality, they do have a problem. It's not politically correct for anyone to use "evil" to label anything, anymore, so saying that people think sex is evil makes for a lot of confusion. That's why I thought a clarification was in order.

  25. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    Makes sense, thanks for clarifying it smile

  26. thisisoli profile image54
    thisisoliposted 7 years ago

    "take porn for example: blatant sexual expression where every sexually aloof human can indulge their 'desire' turn around and go out raping and molesting people cuz they need to get off.
    again, unbelievable..."

    Believe it or not, but there were plenty of cases of both these crimes before the internet became popular.

  27. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    Cosette, you are too emotional about the issue to have any rational discussion. And I am not interested in a slinging match. smile

  28. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    Hey, glad you are back! You tend to disappear without warning, aren't you wink

    1. profile image0
      Justine76posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      me?
      I disappear only on weekends.  smile
      right now I dont have a phone cord long enough to reach my living room, to go online I need to move my whole huge desktop to the kitchen and stuff...not to mention...hubby is home on weekends.
      or if I get booted offline..

  29. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    LOL This explains it. Happy Monday then! smile

    1. profile image0
      Justine76posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      TGIM  smile

  30. wsp2469 profile image61
    wsp2469posted 7 years ago

    Why don't y'all agree that you're off on a sensitive tangent and not include little kids or abuse in the discussion?

    1. Misha profile image74
      Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, you are right of course. There is so much fear condensed in that topic that rational discussion is just impossible... I am outta here smile

      1. profile image53
        FAIZANALTAFposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        ARE U STILL ON LINE?????

  31. Anath profile image72
    Anathposted 7 years ago

    There is nothing wrong with Sex as a consenting act between adults (no matter what number or sex they are)
    What is wrong is any sexual act that is not consensual

  32. theirishobserver. profile image57
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    Yes please, how much....sorry wrong number smile

  33. motricio profile image60
    motricioposted 7 years ago

    Sex needs to be dirty to be sex. cool

    1. profile image53
      FAIZANALTAFposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ARE U STILL ON LINE???????

    2. profile image0
      cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      i agree, the dirtier the better yikes wink

  34. profile image0
    StormRyderposted 7 years ago

    Sexuality is a normal,natural thing. And we, especially in America are so uptight and try to repress sexuality to a great degree while things that seem horrific such as death, destruction and murder are on display for anyone to view.
    And yes, the dirtier the sex the better!

  35. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    Sex or porn is the real thing, death and destruction are fantasy. Adult material should only be on TV after 10pm and children shouldn't see either. It's our job to protect them from garbage and give them a chance to form their own opinions. Try and be a responsible adult instead of a self serving twit,smile

  36. qwark profile image61
    qwarkposted 7 years ago

    Sneak:
    Sex is garbage?
    Children can watch the "obscenties" of war and crime...and the fantasy created by hollywood of them...but the creative activity of sexual activity should not be viewed by children? why is that?

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think they should watch either but if I had to choose one over the other I would opt for fantasy. We are a G-PG family and choose to be that way. I'm not willing to judge any adult behavior what you choose is your buisness but their children they should protected from adult material. Let's face it they'll be adults a whole lot longer than they'll be kids. As adults we should let kids be kids. If you're a parent or gaurdian of children your focus should be on raising good healty kids and let them make their own choices when they are prepared to make choices and they understand the consequences.smile

      1. qwark profile image61
        qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Sneak:
        When ya get a chance to look at them, check out the games kids are playing. They spend hours fighting and killing on these little game gadgets.
        WE played cowboys and indians when I was a kid...and knew it was fantasy.
        Today, these games are so real and they are bombarded by blood and guts, guns and war on TV during daylite hours, that it has to have an effect on them.
        Death and destruction is natural to man. To stop showing it would effect the economy very negatively.
        The Porn business makes billions also....at least people are making love ....not war.

        1. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Quark I'm not blind and I see what you're saying. We played army when I was young also. I'm not for children being exposed to violence either. We emphasized sports and acedemics it was not an issue in our house. That said we rarely if ever left our son unsupervised and we only let him visit families that held to our standards.

          Our son chose a Christian university without our promting we had hoped he would choose a big state school. He didn't like the negative peer pressure at those schools to party and act out. He's 20 now and in his senior year of his chemistry degree and taking the LSAT this summer. I took him to the Sugarbowl this year and we went to the French Quarter and Burbon street. He stood in the middle of the street watching what was going on and he hated it. He asked how this could be allowed to happen with kids and families in the area. He was angry about the sex, alcohol and bad behavior and swore his family would not be visiting New Orleans.

          We are very active in the LDS church so you know how we see the world. I don't want to impose my lifestye choices on anyone and I'm more liberal than most. Families have to come first or we'll end up gonig the way of other corrupt sociaties. We owe it to our kids to protect them.smile

          1. qwark profile image61
            qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Sneak:
            Protect them from what?
            They are living on  very dangerous planet which is being overrun by a deadly species of predatory animal.
            Kids these days are exposed to all facets of life at very early ages.
            I am not a religious person. I am a realist and pragmatist.
            There is no way to keep curious children ensconsed in pureness. None at all.
            I raised my son from birth. I gained custody when he was 4.
            I protected him from physical harm and tried to instill in him that life was precious! Don't smoke or do drugs and get a good education I guided him along those lines
            Today he owns his own business in Fla., and has 2 great kids.
            He was curious about sex at about 11 yrs old..He was no longer a virgin at 15..I educated him about sex and the powerful effect hormones would have on his body and mind. He was active in his own form of Porn.
            He is a gun nut but won't hunt or kill...but, will if he or his children are attacked.
            Sex to both he and I, is and has been a wonderful and joyous activity from a very early age.
            I'd rather have him involved in the act of love than in the obscenity of war, death and destruction.

            1. profile image0
              sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not saying we've cornered the market on parenting but I know it works for us. My son has been exposed to all aspects of our sociaty. He traveled the country playing soccer and plays at his university he has seen both sides but feels comfortable where he is. Hey we're all for sex between a married man and woman. We do hunt and fish and are very happy gun owners. If you were to check on the the percentage of LDS kids in the FBI, CIA, Secret Service and Special Forces you might be shocked as compared to other sections of our sociaty. Why do you think they are chosen more frequently? Honesty, integrity and morality maybe and that might make them a tad more willing to do the right thing.

              1. qwark profile image61
                qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Sneak:
                Of course right and wrong are "relative."
                We won't get into it here...:-) but I consider anything involving religion, wrong.
                But that's for another time and "hub" subject.  :-)
                Thanks for responding..

                1. profile image0
                  sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No problem brother.big_smile

        2. Hokey profile image61
          Hokeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I don't think prnography is making love. There is a difference.

          1. qwark profile image61
            qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Hokey:
            NP...call it a sexual act instead of making love...:-)

  37. theirishobserver. profile image57
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    How much for this dirty sex smile

  38. Hokey profile image61
    Hokeyposted 7 years ago

    I guess some people just are too hung up on sx. Can't handle it being a free open experience. I too believe this comes from religions condemning any pleasure of the flesh. I do see your point about vilence and how we seem to have no problem watching and maybe even revering it. Just goes to prove how twisted things have become.


    (sorry about the spelling computer has a filter)

 
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