Why is viewing people participating in "sexual" activity, considered to be "DIRTY" and is anathema to "morality," while "OBSCENE" pictures and movies of people being killed and mutilated in war and crime can be watched by folks of any age...publicly, without any consideration of "immorality?" Isn't that hypocrisy to the "nth" degree?
i agree. i have known people who let their very small children watch all kinds of horribly scary and violent shows on tv, blood and all, but shield their eyes if a beautiful woman walks on the screen showing cleavage. very strange...
Oh that is spot on. They don't cover their eyes on the 6.00 news where it is all violent yet cover their eyes in a low level sex scene in a movie. Shouldn't it be both. What is the go with that Flo?
The santity religion upholds as a virtue. The act of sex is only permitted between two married adults. This tradition is still handed down generation to generation, age after age, and mixed up differently in all cultures.
The is no uniformed view, because of religious doctrines and views, and influence.
one time we visted some friends who had two daughters. one was 5 and one was 13. this was before my son was born. anyway, we were all having dinner then settled in to watch Midnight Express. i am sure you know how awful that film is. great, but not for children by any stretch. anyway, their 5-year-old was running in and out and watching it and i said 'um, should she be watching this?' and they go 'oh yeah kids are resilient' and the film got worse as it progressed, and she watched many of the awful scenes, including where Billy goes berserk and pulls that man's tongue out with his teeth. the girl's eyes got as big as saucers and i tried to distract her, and they said 'reLAX, geeze, it's all fake!' and she continued to watch it, then the one scene that was a shining moment in the film...the one moment where he finds his humanity again, when his girlfriend visits him and bares her breasts to him, they leaped up and covered her eyes going 'DON'T LOOK!'....
i think in general, Americans are uptight about sex and glorify violence to some degree.
Yes, of COURSE it is!
Now explain that to Google and adsense and let them explain it to the admin.
You know, when my youngest son was only 11 I took him to see "Watchmen". he knew he was supposed to cover his eyes during "the inappropriate parts". WHAT are the so-called inappropriate parts? The parts where characters make love.
People thought it wasn't a good idea to take him because of the sex. No one gave a sh*t that my son would be seeing all the violence in the movie.
Welcome to America. It's okay for my son to see guys who are supposed to be the good guys literally raping, beating and killing people in many and numerous graphic fashions BUT --God-- NO! Do NOT let him see people making love!
I disagree with both of the premises you present. Watching others engage in the act of sex isn`t considered dirty` however it is considered inappropriate to display for all to see without a choice. The same is true for war atrocites, killing etc. though some news agencies like al jerzera will show raw and graphic footage, most in the USA avoid that.
I had no idea people of all ages can see images of mutilation, and it is considered moral. Last time I checked, it is considered wrong?
(also, to view someone having sex, im assuming you mean pornography? To sneak up and watch people without thier permission is wrong)...
wait..Im so confused here...who said sex was dirty?
it goes with privacy, are you confident of your body? problem with body image?
the culture has soemthing to say about this, how restrictive the culture is
I dont want anybody looking at me when I make love, it is a scared act for me and my loved one, it is not for show, just the two of us
you know I've been asking that question for ages and never got a straight answer..
...lets see if ya get one this time...:-)
Yes all that stuff is screwed up. So many say how porn is bad and all that, while they watch it themselves. I really think it's people that just can't let go and admit they like it.
Sex and porn (yes, porn is sex) is completely natural and every healthy person likes it to some degree. Yet everyone hates wars and violence.
We should all be able to watch full hardcore porn on TV if we can also watch people getting killed.
By the same token sex abusers get way more outrage in the populace than killers. Always puzzled me
Definitely has to do with bible, and the culture built over it.
Have ya come to any conclusions?
If ya have, share 'em :-)
I didn't see the bible aspect Mish.
I must agree with ya.
No apparent conclusions other that this phenomenon is specific to judeo-christian-muslim group of religions. They all despise sex and accept violence - just read the books. But I bet you read them already.
You guessed right! :-)
...and you are right on!
If ya read the bible, the torah and the qur'an, all 3 create deviance in sexual activity if not engaged in with the thought of procreation in mind....The joy and pleasure of "casual" sex is "sinful" ...to even lust for it, displeasures god/allah...lol
That is a great question. Watching the act of human butchering vs watching the act of human pleasure. One would think that human pleasure would be far more acceptable. Maybe it is just acceptable insanity?
Both sex and death are normal and natural.
sex is a positive, creative act.
Death is the final act.
Killing, mutilating, causing great human pain and suffering is a "destructive" act!
Why is it ok to view, with impunity, the obscene "destructive" acts and not the "creative" ones?
...and...to top it off, call the natural sexual act and enjoyment derived: "DIRTY!?"
My best guess it that sex was made dirty by people who weren't getting any...more than likely a manipulation of popular religion.
Killing is made glorious by war and makes some humans feel like little gods. You've probably heard that rape isn't about sex...it's about control. Death is the ultimate control.
I posted a question that related to this biblical god thing allowing the rape of baby girls in scripture.
Did any of you follow the responses I got?
They made me think, to an even greater degree than before the question was asked, that the MAJORITY of people who say "read the bible for answers," haven't read it. They just follow what the equally ignorant sunday school teacher and the minister preach to them as being truth....it's scary!
To me, they are following the same script as followers of islam and judaism....lies being taught as truths to todays youth..tomorrows leaders....even scarier! :-(
ahem...not too 'butt' in. The Creator is not a dial-up number when someone suddenly needs emergency help. Everything man does is their choice. If one chooses to hurt another, how -pray tell- is that the Creators fault? Seriously. It is fascinating the level of people, religious or not, denying their own personal responsibility. Just 'f-ing' unbelievable.
take porn for example: blatant sexual expression where every sexually aloof human can indulge their 'desire' turn around and go out raping and molesting people cuz they need to get off.
just sayin` grow up Moe.
Lololol....when you grow up and your mind is functioning as a mature adult, I hope that, along the way, you include lots of educational experiences.
At the moment there is an obvious dirth of "understanding" in your ludicrous comments.
I know you think you are offering wonderous and meaningful advice, but when I read your comments, I lol and roll my eyes back in utter disbelief....
I know you mean well, but, study, research and think b4 ya publicly ram foot in mouth...jeez...
I say this with the deepest respect and understanding in ref to your lack of intellect.
Damn, am I being too rough on 21?..oh well...:-(
The first command was "Go forth and multiply." I don't think it was about learning math.
God (If you believe there is one) made sex beautiful...religion made it dirty.
If there were a "god" thing and "it" did create us, wouldn't it be "psychotic" to have created us knowing full well how we'd enjoy sex? To make it a sin to participate except for the purpose of procreation? If that were "it's" desire, why not make us come into heat 1nce or twice a year?
I think this biblical god thing is an insane nut who escaped from some "heavenly" institution for the mentally deranged...:-)
Sex is a beautiful thing. Why do you make God out to be against it except for procreation? humans did that. religion did that. God is not a prude for heavens sake. we were meant to enjoy sex.
And Religion has nothing to do with God. God could care less about who and what sex you are having. Uptight men and religion create lies then say it's gods word. Men lie on God to control other Men and Women. How do think Old Dirty Nasty Men get away with f''''' king young girls?
I agree with you.
Don't tell a kid not to watch a porn if you let him watch Scarface.
Although I really don't see the connection between the hypocrisy present being caused from religion I do agree that it is extreme hypocrisy to keep pushing the envelope of compromise. Violence, in it's increasing degrees, desensitizes the population of adults and children. It may or may not affect how they deal with each other but certainly affects how they view and "decision make" in situations.
Although one is violence and one is sex there is little difference in the agenda. It desensitizes. However, in this instance it demeans and belittles the purpose and beautiful nature of what it's all about. It strips and captions "no harm" in all sexuality especially when exhibited prior to marriage, out in public, on film, with beasts or other unacceptable people and/or objects.
In both instances the agenda is to coax the viewer into the mindset that strict disciplining of the mind, body and spirit is not necessary for personal growth to occur. On the contrary it does send the message that "anything goes" without fear of consequences.
I know you are a religiously oriented man.
May I ask what facet of monotheistic belief you adhere to?
Or amI being presumptuous in labeling you as a monotheist?
I am a leader in the Latter-day Saint faith. However, it is the same view on this subject as many other people of faith and of no faith at all alike.
I'm not trying to stir any pot, just stating that my view of sexual activity is very special and sacred and was never meant to be demeaned or portrayed in a common manner.
People do get stimulation from violence as well. The danger is putting both activities in the same boat.
Sexual activity and violence are natural to the human creature.
it has been involved in both from it's birth as an ancient hominid millions of yrs ago.
May I ask why you consider the natural creative act of sex to be "sacred?"
Why do you consider the viewing of it to "deamen" the act?
We are a dangerous animal species. Our history give us ample evidence of that. Violence is part and parcel of our genetic programming as earth's prime predator.
The bible is rife with death and destruction. The biblical god ordered the death of the entire human species!
Is it no wonder that if this biblical god created us in "it's" image and is guilty of murder and other maniacal activities, that we would be guilty of the same psychotic absurdities?
I see your point.
Because we have the ability to do something (violence and sexual activity etc.) should not necessarily mean we should exploit it in all it's forms.
Yes, I consider it sacred. Why? A man and a woman in the joining act are partnered in a godly sense. That is, they are employing powers of creation. Creation in this sense is something that God shares. This is one of the many reason why we uphold women to such a high status. They have been deemed special to the degree that they thus become "co-creators" with God. Sure, you are supposed to take pleasure in it but it is an activity to be delighted in behind closed doors between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wed. That is my answer to the question you have respectfully posed and I thank you for the opportunity to explain it.
Violence. Yes, the Bible and all other sacred texts are rife with violence. Violence is to be loathed. However, that's violence in it's raw nature. Warfare, on the other hand, I believe have been justified from time to time and even commanded of God at times to bring about a greater purpose. These would include the conquering of Holy Lands by the Hebrews after the Exodus. Those lands were promised them hundreds of year prior and at the right time that land needed cleansing of the people exercising the same degraded activities we are discussing here. Even though distasteful there is such a thing as necessary warfare. I could site many other instances but it would be on no value at this point.
Lets, respectfully, discuss this.
Before we do, I must ask you this question. Your answer will position me properly, intellectually, in reference to your "hub" response:
Do you consider the biblical god to be omniscient and omnipotent?
Yes, sir I do.
I believe that He has all power and authority. I believe that through Him Jesus Christ and appointed others created the Earth. I believe that creation has no beginning and no end. I believe that through the authority and power of the chain of Gods uncounted worlds have been created and destroyed but all with a common purpose - the immortality and eternal life of man.
I believe the essential part of the design of our existence as well as Earth and all other worlds that have been, are and will yet be is the principle of agency or the ability to choose. Through this ability to choose we are able to opt to pervert and distort the very things that are holy in nature. That is part of the vice in all things. Yet still it's agency.
I believe that man's design must be viewed in a much broader perspective than just the death and destruction that goes on here in life. I believe that God has such an eternal outlook on the potential of man. The Adversary, however, does not have this ability. His outlook is shortsighted and seeks immediate gratification and extends that hunger to all of us through temptation. This is essential to understand. God is able to use the shortsighted plans of the Adversary for the greater good. The individual battles and scenic bloodshed of warfare through rage is of the Adversary but in the long outlook God's will must triumph.
These thoughts link to the threads question. The purpose of sexual appetites are, at base, sacred in nature and have an eternal purpose. However, we through the Adversary, have the agency to pervert this ability and do so often. We also kill and murder people and beasts for personal gratification. God has deemed certain bloodshed for higher purposes yet man has perverted those purposes to match the Adversary's and thus feels "justified" in their actions.
We as a people shun, degrade or outright reject God for the simple reason of all the disgust in the world. On the flipside it exists for the very reason we all rejoiced for Him in the beginning - agency. He allows these things as part of His promise to us - that we would have the ability to choose in this life. However, He decides the consequences not us and we desecrate His name when we disapprove of those consequences.
I am getting long-winded again but I do thank you in advance for a respectable conversation quark.
My father was a mormon.
I remember the young men on bicycles wearing black pants and white shirts, also black ties, if I remember correctly, visiting our home and proselytizing their beliefs to him. He was a baptist prior to becoming a mormon.
Thanks for the lengthy response...lol
Since you believe that god is both omniscient and omnipotent, and I'm going to presume that you believe that god is "perfect," wouldn't it be obvious that this god already knew the future of all life "it" created? Of course it would be.
Why would an "omniscient" perfect god create an imperfect "man and woman" knowing full well "it" would be involved in the mass murder of all "it's" creations but a few, in an alledged arc, sometime in the future?
If this god is "omnipotent," one must presume that it could also have, realizing the above, created the perfection of itself in all it created? "...let us create man in our image."
I spent 2 1/2 years in baptist seminary in my early 20's.
I became a biblical scholar in my prep for the pulpit. Ah but I went far beyond the knowledge of my "teachers." I also began to study the fields of anthropology, geology, cosmology, physics, chemistry, philosophy, ontology..on and on and on.
I asked questions of my "teachers" they couldn't answer. They would respond with answers like this: "you must have faith my child."
Finally, I was asked to leave because I couldn't accept the writings of a very corrupted bible as being truth.
I studied the rise of man's religions and the evolution of the 3 major monotheistic cults.
I then began to study the evolution of modern man and his "bent" for beliefs in the supernatural.
It became obvious to me that as man's sophistication grew, his god's became more sophisticated in nature until he arrived at a point in time where his gods become abstract concepts which can neither be proved or disproved.
I look back at my experience as a seminarian and consider it to be a "blessing" because, in the long run, it was responsible for the kind of life I have led and for the wonderful education I have completed.
I consider it to have been extremely valuable because if they had not asked me to leave, I would have missed so much in life that I was meant to experience.
Excellent summation, GP.
Man must 'rise above' his self imposed limitation -his conscious/awareness- OF said temptations; whereby releasing him from the 'golden chains' and allowing him to be as was -i believe- the original plan.
PS, Sir Quark,
this is what i meant by that statement in the Noah thread regarding man accepting a lower form of living than was he design/purpose.
as one can draw from even this thread, the proof of that limitation is ever so evident. (regardless of culture, theology, method, oaths, hypocrisy or otherwise. One may see the universe in a speck of dust yet not understand the fullness of it).
The question is (and I ask this with no specific answer in mind), is porn a work of art?
it could be. No doubt about that.
Look up the definition of pornography. That should answer your question.
"Porn - creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire."
I suppose it's no worse than a nude painting or an erotic poem really.
You need to account for the fact that author(s) of this definition belongs to the culture deeply rooted in judeo-christian religion.
Should that matter though?
Isn't it a question as to whether it is art, not whether religion has an influence in it?
(Btw, I think I may have misunderstood your point - it wasn't the clearest ever. In which case I apologise)
LOL The point pretty much was that everything is in the eyes of the beholder.
This particular definition of porn bears negative connotation, which I would attribute to beholders - who are no doubt of western culture (they speak english, right?), which is based on judeo-christian religion.
To me quite a bit of what western people define as porn does have artistic (or rather aesthetic, to be precise) value, otherwise I don't bother looking at it
Haha, why didn't you say that in the first place?
Haha, yeah, I'm with you now. I agree.
LOL I sorta said - but I used a few shortcuts that obviously did not work for you
My simple mind could not piece it together...
Nah, your mind is just fine. It's just the fact that our life experience is different, so the ties obvious to me might not be that obvious to you, and vice versa.
May I ask, how do you have so few hubs and so many fans? I seem to have hit a block and noone is fanning me anymore...
Try to put a couple of boobs in your avatar
If seriously, it does not seem to depend on the number of your own hubs, rather on the number of your interactions with different people around, be it on the forums on in the comments of their hubs
Ahh yes, that makes sense, if not a little bit of a shame.
I want people to like my work rather than just like me...however, I suppose one should play the game of life...
Cheers for the advice.
The subjects i choose to write about are not the most popular ones.
In fact, I haven't gotten a bite on too many of them.
When I found the "Hub" pages, I wrote up a storm.
I kinda burned out.
Have ya read any of my stuff?
In the main, I write about my philosophy on life and try to describe my feelings as "eloquently" as my ability permits.
I love the English language. When I took the GRE prior to doing graduate work, my vocabulary was estimated to be close to 400k words. I used to live in a dictionary...wore several of them out....lol
Some say I try too hard ...but my response is: "try to describe the essence of a rose without words."
If ya don't like "words," don't read my stuff....lol
But to answer your question, I have no idea. :-)
Visit the Louvre in Paris.
View some of the "art" displayed privately.
Beautiful paintings by some of the "masters" portraying the sex act in a variety of ways...
The Kama Sutra and Indian sculptures and reliefs which could be construed by some to be porn....
My belief is that "porn" is in the mind of the beholder....
At the right time, when certain hormones become active...I might be able to masturbate and orgasm viewing the Mona Lisa. :-)
Is my point made?
My mind needs a good scrubbing then! heck!
Your point is made very well indeed.
I really want to live in Paris for a year because I think it'll inspire my artistic temprement (I'm currently an 18yr old student but am going on to do English Literature and Creative Writing next year at university - from there I want to become an author).
I don't see what you see in the Mona Lisa though, she just isn't the woman for me
'Andromeda' by Gustave Dore however, phwoooorrrrr
Hell, when my testosterone levels rise, I chase cockroaches and try to flip 'em over on their backs before they disappear under the fridge.....lol
Andromeda?are you talking about the Greek mythical princess of Ethiopia? ...or a painting of the galaxy?..
I'd love to see it....do ya have a site for me?
Andromeda - Gustave Dore:
La Promenade - Claude Monet
Two of my favourite paintings
hey, did you know that art historians are conducting tests on the Mona Lisa (facial comparisons, etc. with computer software) to see if the Mona Lisa is really a self portrait by DaVinci?
Any one thing, any word or thought could either be good or bad depending on intent.
There are words that are used as weapons. Bodies and body parts are used as weapons. Virtually *anything* can be used as a weapon, depending on intent. And in the very same way, any of these things can also be used for good.
So, viewing sex, to me can be bad, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. We also think it's very, very good under certain conditions. If it instills thoughts of harm, or negative actions against self or any other person, then you can classify it any way you want to, but if it doesn't bring good, it's just bad (to me). Murder, violence, etc., can be pretty much viewed the same way, to me.
I think my views of these types of things are rather simplistic, but I also think that's part of the beauty of it. Anyone can understand it, really, even though they may choose to disregard it.
Yes, yes and yes! To all!
He does know the ends from the beginning.
The conditions with Adam and Eve and the Garden were perfect for this sphere was literally near God unlike now so He did create a type of "perfection" in the beginning.
The answer to all the questions though still comes back to that unparalleled gift of agency. We cannot achieve our full potential without agency. This is why Adam and Eve are now in an exalted state. Because they transgressed they now know sorrow and the bounty in good - just as God, Himself, had to journey through.
The individuals who commit haneous acts in this life were not like this in the beginning. ALL who have a physical body accepted the Plan of the Father and the Son and accepted the need of the Son to serve as a sacrifice that we may have the mere opportunity to return to Father's presence. Our body is a physical and tangible token of that acceptance and our keeping of our First Estate. Knowing the need of this sacrifice from the beginning means that God and all of us knew that because of the great gift of agency many of us would fall away but it was the only way, through agency, to eventually become perfected like unto the Father. We can force someone to learn math but their love for it and expanded knowledge of it would not take place unless they learned it through agency - choosing to learn math and choosing to apply it. It's the exact same principle.
Part of the Plan from the beginning was the Fall and the fallen nature of man throughout the history of the Earth. In the end it is the separation of the wheat from the tares. Who is proven worthy of exaltation and who has not proven worthy - through agency. This is why there are three main degrees of glory and an innumerable "sub-degrees". Why? Because we are all different and make varied choices yet He loves each of us and bestows glory upon us according to our works and knowledge that we will obtain. Through our agency we may also find ourselves willfully proving ourselves worthy of Outer Darkness.
This is the point of the whole thing. WE choose our destiny according to how we conduct our affairs in this life.
I am and will always be a "thinker," pragmatist and logician until I get Alzheimers and am instituted..:-)
What you just wrote makes absolutely no sense at all..
I asked you why, if your perfect god is omniscient and omnipotent, didn't it create the perfection of itself in us?
"It" had the power and the insight.
Your last paragraph, in part reads:
"...Part of the Plan from the beginning was the Fall and the fallen nature of man throughout the history of the Earth. In the end it is the separation of the wheat from the tares. Who is proven worthy of exaltation and who has not proven worthy -"
An "omniscient" god would already know all of the above.
Doing this, for the reason you state, could only mean to a "thinker," that this god is not "omniscient" or that "it" created imperfection in man to play with it in a very deadly manner... which would mean to a "thinker," that this god is also not perfect. "It" has very man-like flaws in character.
All you write is but opinion Goldenpath, based upon your religious education.
To a "thinker" your presentation would differ not one iota from that of an islamic or judaic fundamentalist.
To a "thinker" it's all "rigmarole."
...but thanks for being honest and respectful.
I always respond the same. :-)
I guess this thread should be re-classified into Religion section
Sorry to be out of tune but just answering a question. Sorry if I've prompted someone to inquire a religious question. Out of respect for the thread intended purpose I will relinquish such answers on this thread.
Thanks for the correction.
It was not really directed at anybody, it was rather an observation of the course that this thread turned to
...but I knew it would.
The influence of religion is so powerfull in America that when I presented this question, there was no doubt in my mind that responses would eventually be related to "religion."
How could anyone who lives here think anything else?
I've travelled to europe for instance and was pleasantly surprised at how relaxed and accepting they are of nudity and the subject of sex.
We are much too uptight here. The reason is based solidly on religious rigidity.
I am a thinker as well. I always apply science into my faith.
He has instilled perfection in us. We are literal offspring of Him. Were it not so we would not have the potential promised that we have. Even though God knows the ends from the beginning does not mean that the Plan cannot and should not go forward. We were all different in the pre-existence with varying degrees of valiance and faithfulness. It's called individuality. We were given this in that existence every bit as much as we were given our gender identity.
Remember the refiner's fire. He places us in the fires of trial and tribulation just to the point that His own reflection is seen in us. That is the spark of perfection from Him in us. Only then are we ready to move on to greater understanding and higher levels of testing. All this for what? Eventual perfection.
I understand that none of this makes sense to you. As you've stated I have had teachings differ from the one's you have had. That doesn't mean they make any less sense than the opinions you have.
For me when I remember the foundation principle of the entire universe is agency it all makes sense to me - everything. Even greater do I look forward to the great work and events to take place during the millenium. Those teachings really help bring things full circle for me.
Perhaps one should not so much pick and choose what God is or isn't but rather identify the possibility that through Him we have our agency. If we have agency than there must be a promised potential for correct judgements on our part and a vice consequence for incorrect decisions. This concept makes sense and gives us direction when contemplating the ills of this world.
At the beginning the Adversary wanted to strip us of this great gift of agency. Through pride he wanted the glory for himself. This is why God "chose the first". Had Lucifer's plan been instituted none of us would have ever been able to realize our full potential because the agency to strive toward that potential would not have been there or existed.
Can't buy it. Sorry.
None of what you opine would be necessary if this god was perfect, omniscient and omnipotent.
You offer opinion and conjecture and that's really all I expect of any monotheist and to date, none have surprised me.
You are a gentleman. that is appreciated :-)
In my opinion sexual activity should not be considered as DIRTY. This is the most important and vital activity by any living being to maintain the creation of GOD. (It can be called NATURE also if the term GOD creates any controversy here).
But I also believe that the public exhibition of that activity may create social problems. It is not necessary to exhibit everything which is natural. If you think so than human being need not have to be dressed up, all can show up their body which is natural and God gifted.
In Ireland our moral leaders for centuries have been the Catholic Church, they have moralised from the pulpit on Sunday mornings about people drinking and phornicating, now we have learned through two independent reports The Ryan Report and the Murphy Report, that behind closed doors and with the protection of the State these same moralisers were raping and molesting thousands of children, I think morality usually comes from those who have most to hide.......
Sex abusers brutalize the souls of their victims but leave them to live with the remnants of what they once were. this is especially true when it involves children. there is nothing more heinous if you ask me.
Nah Megs, I think they don't. If those souls were not conditioned to believe that sex is dirty, no special harm would be possible. Our culture's mantra that sex is an evil all by itself is mainly responsible for psychological problems following sex abuse.
oh good grief, are you for real?
sex abusers DON'T brutalize the souls of their victims?
it is the simple fact that a culture says sex is dirty is what actually causes the brutalization? and "no special harm would be possible" if not for societal "hang-ups"?
and cultural perception that sex is evil is what causes psychological problems in children who are victimized in this fashion?
exactly how does a two- or three-year-old child have any concept of sex, good or bad? no one tells a very small child how "evil" sex is. there are adults who sexually abuse infants. and you say that that in and of itself isn't what brutalizes them, sometimes beyond repair?
it amazes me that you can't even consider how heinous the scenario in itself is: a giant adult using a tiny innocent child who has no concept of sex in any capacity at all in such a horrible fashion against their will -
ugh, whatever Misha.
I think I may have misunderstood what you meant by 'sex abusers'. I thought you were talking about molesters. sorry bout that.
I, too, find it strange how there is such a strong reaction to sex but how people are completely alright with violence.
Here in quebec, there are different views. sex is talked about and people are not afraid to be open etc. (just watch some of our local channels to get an idea). on the other hand, quebeckers abhor violence and the war.
No need to apologize, you did not abuse me in any way
I did not specifically address child molesters, but I did not exclude them either. What I said refers to those cases, too. I still maintain that sex abuse really hurts as any other abuse because of the violence involved - and the sexual part of it gives extra problems only because of our culture's take on sex. Hope this makes sense.
ok, this does not make any sense at all. NONE! as Cossette said earlier, how do kids know anything at all in the first place? I think you are confused Misha, and possibly, you've never been abused and so you don't understand and CAN'T understand. An adult who abuses a child is deviant and sex is no longer beautiful to him or her whatever the case may be. In this case, I cannot even bear that you would think this way...
I actually read a book about this recently, I will have to dig it out, it basically boiled down to how worrying it was that 'Hate is acecptable in todays society' and 'love is unacceptable in todays society'.
There were a few arguments against it, many films are absed around love for example, but the book also pointed out that waht made these films interesting was generally an affair, or some other 'evil' event.
Misha, while I sympathize with your position on this issue, I think it is a little more complicated than that. It also has to do with the mind/body dichotomy and with the assertion of most humans, both liberal and conservative, that human beings are in a category all by themselves, unlike other animals, no matter how closely related.
The sex act, as performed and experienced by humans, involves involuntary sensations that we share with many other animals. While it has been linked in our minds with our more spiritual and intellectual feelings, the fact is that sexual sensations are entirely separable. Guilt experienced by rape victims often involves positive physical reactions that have nothing to do with the higher functions of the mind.
Americans and other Westerners are now into wholesale castration of the entire canine population (ostensibly as a form of birth control) but really so they don't have to witness their dogs' sex lives close up and see how similar they are to our own.
I don't see any contradiction here Aya, all what you said is still rooted in our cultural prejudices, which in turn stem from judeo-christian brand of religion. Guilty as charged in not naming all of them though.
Misha, okay. I agree, there's no contradiction between what you said and what I said. It's just that many people will protest that they don't think sex is dirty, they think it's a spiritual thing. But... when faced the reality, they do have a problem. It's not politically correct for anyone to use "evil" to label anything, anymore, so saying that people think sex is evil makes for a lot of confusion. That's why I thought a clarification was in order.
"take porn for example: blatant sexual expression where every sexually aloof human can indulge their 'desire' turn around and go out raping and molesting people cuz they need to get off.
Believe it or not, but there were plenty of cases of both these crimes before the internet became popular.
Cosette, you are too emotional about the issue to have any rational discussion. And I am not interested in a slinging match.
Hey, glad you are back! You tend to disappear without warning, aren't you
I disappear only on weekends.
right now I dont have a phone cord long enough to reach my living room, to go online I need to move my whole huge desktop to the kitchen and stuff...not to mention...hubby is home on weekends.
or if I get booted offline..
Why don't y'all agree that you're off on a sensitive tangent and not include little kids or abuse in the discussion?
There is nothing wrong with Sex as a consenting act between adults (no matter what number or sex they are)
What is wrong is any sexual act that is not consensual
Sexuality is a normal,natural thing. And we, especially in America are so uptight and try to repress sexuality to a great degree while things that seem horrific such as death, destruction and murder are on display for anyone to view.
And yes, the dirtier the sex the better!
Sex or porn is the real thing, death and destruction are fantasy. Adult material should only be on TV after 10pm and children shouldn't see either. It's our job to protect them from garbage and give them a chance to form their own opinions. Try and be a responsible adult instead of a self serving twit,
Sex is garbage?
Children can watch the "obscenties" of war and crime...and the fantasy created by hollywood of them...but the creative activity of sexual activity should not be viewed by children? why is that?
I don't think they should watch either but if I had to choose one over the other I would opt for fantasy. We are a G-PG family and choose to be that way. I'm not willing to judge any adult behavior what you choose is your buisness but their children they should protected from adult material. Let's face it they'll be adults a whole lot longer than they'll be kids. As adults we should let kids be kids. If you're a parent or gaurdian of children your focus should be on raising good healty kids and let them make their own choices when they are prepared to make choices and they understand the consequences.
When ya get a chance to look at them, check out the games kids are playing. They spend hours fighting and killing on these little game gadgets.
WE played cowboys and indians when I was a kid...and knew it was fantasy.
Today, these games are so real and they are bombarded by blood and guts, guns and war on TV during daylite hours, that it has to have an effect on them.
Death and destruction is natural to man. To stop showing it would effect the economy very negatively.
The Porn business makes billions also....at least people are making love ....not war.
Quark I'm not blind and I see what you're saying. We played army when I was young also. I'm not for children being exposed to violence either. We emphasized sports and acedemics it was not an issue in our house. That said we rarely if ever left our son unsupervised and we only let him visit families that held to our standards.
Our son chose a Christian university without our promting we had hoped he would choose a big state school. He didn't like the negative peer pressure at those schools to party and act out. He's 20 now and in his senior year of his chemistry degree and taking the LSAT this summer. I took him to the Sugarbowl this year and we went to the French Quarter and Burbon street. He stood in the middle of the street watching what was going on and he hated it. He asked how this could be allowed to happen with kids and families in the area. He was angry about the sex, alcohol and bad behavior and swore his family would not be visiting New Orleans.
We are very active in the LDS church so you know how we see the world. I don't want to impose my lifestye choices on anyone and I'm more liberal than most. Families have to come first or we'll end up gonig the way of other corrupt sociaties. We owe it to our kids to protect them.
Protect them from what?
They are living on very dangerous planet which is being overrun by a deadly species of predatory animal.
Kids these days are exposed to all facets of life at very early ages.
I am not a religious person. I am a realist and pragmatist.
There is no way to keep curious children ensconsed in pureness. None at all.
I raised my son from birth. I gained custody when he was 4.
I protected him from physical harm and tried to instill in him that life was precious! Don't smoke or do drugs and get a good education I guided him along those lines
Today he owns his own business in Fla., and has 2 great kids.
He was curious about sex at about 11 yrs old..He was no longer a virgin at 15..I educated him about sex and the powerful effect hormones would have on his body and mind. He was active in his own form of Porn.
He is a gun nut but won't hunt or kill...but, will if he or his children are attacked.
Sex to both he and I, is and has been a wonderful and joyous activity from a very early age.
I'd rather have him involved in the act of love than in the obscenity of war, death and destruction.
I'm not saying we've cornered the market on parenting but I know it works for us. My son has been exposed to all aspects of our sociaty. He traveled the country playing soccer and plays at his university he has seen both sides but feels comfortable where he is. Hey we're all for sex between a married man and woman. We do hunt and fish and are very happy gun owners. If you were to check on the the percentage of LDS kids in the FBI, CIA, Secret Service and Special Forces you might be shocked as compared to other sections of our sociaty. Why do you think they are chosen more frequently? Honesty, integrity and morality maybe and that might make them a tad more willing to do the right thing.
Of course right and wrong are "relative."
We won't get into it here...:-) but I consider anything involving religion, wrong.
But that's for another time and "hub" subject. :-)
Thanks for responding..
I don't think prnography is making love. There is a difference.
I guess some people just are too hung up on sx. Can't handle it being a free open experience. I too believe this comes from religions condemning any pleasure of the flesh. I do see your point about vilence and how we seem to have no problem watching and maybe even revering it. Just goes to prove how twisted things have become.
(sorry about the spelling computer has a filter)
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