If Adam and Eve did not disobey God's one command?

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   Dave Mathewsposted 12 years ago

   If Adam and Eve did not disobey God's one and only rule, command, about the fruit of that one tree, the tree of "Knowledge of good and evil", the way I see it, we would all still be living in Eden. We could pretty much do what we wanted, go where we wanted, eat what we wanted. There would be no need for governments, no need for police, no need for doctors. Sin would not exist, death would not exist.
   
   If this were the case, how do you see your life, still living in Eden?

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Would we be here? I'm sure somewhere, in all of our lineages, there is an ancestor who was born as the result of sex outside of marriage, adultery, lust...or other less than 'Godly' thoughts.
      
      So, I guess I honestly wouldn't have a life. Since none of that would have happened at any point in my history.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Emile: You are not thinking outside the box. If Adam and Eve never sinned, there would be no adultery. You would be here but in a perfect world without any of the difficulties and hardships and criminals and politicians and police.

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I still don't think I'd be here Dave. Either way, if there was such a place as Eden, by my understanding of what it was supposed to be, I wouldn't like it for an eternity. Maybe a vacation occassionally. Why would anyone want to wander around naked with nothing to do that made a difference?

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               paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               +1

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         Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It doesn't matter what Adam and Eve did, we'd still be where were at today. Nice story although any literary critic would vote it thumbs down for characters lacking depth and rotten flow. TheBible really needs a disclaimer stating the following: "All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental."

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Some don't seem to be able to ponder a 'what if'. I don't think they were real, but if they were history would have played out differently.  Immigrants running from Bonaparte's wars wouldn't have come into contact with indigenous populations on another continent. Religious persecution wouldn't have driven people into land unknown. Americans wouldn't have married Europeans they met on leave during the World Wars.
            
            Unless, it is your argument that we all have souls. And our true'selves' would be here in some form or the other. In which case I'd probably disagree.

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      paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Peaceful and stress free. But very possibly totally and utterly boring. Seriously, what would there be to do all day? Everyday. Forever...
      
      And what kind of God would decree that we can't pursue knowledge? No philosophy? No sciences? No arts? No nature? No nothing? What kind of inane life is that? To prohibit the joy of learning is an asinine rule indeed...
      
      Conclusion: It's either:
      
      A. God is a jerk.
      
      Or
      
      B. The whole Eden thing is yet another totally fictional story made up by some guy way back when; just like most everything else in the bible. And whoever the guy was, he also thought that the world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, and that the earth was only a few 1000 years old.
      
      And for those who are interested, there is more than one opinion  about the "Tree of Knowledge" and what it is supposed to mean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_th … d_and_evil And whatever one happens to believe, please have enough self-awareness to realize that your belief is an opinion and not necessarily a fact.

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         a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         God was their teacher, and over time would have told them everything they need to know (of course this is an assumption, I can admit that). They still had free will and could do whatever they pleased (except disobey God, who gave them free reign over Eden). But as far as I know, Adam had a job- no different from you and I. God assigned him the task of taking care of the garden so he could provide for himself and Eve.
         As for your fictional story theory- the Bible says the Earth hangs in space, is round, and it revolves. It also says each star is different than the another and that there are more of them than grains of sand on all the beaches. Are those statements fiction? And how could those men know such things? For them the world consisted of what we know as the Middle East- and that was it.

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            paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You have my full attention!!! Where does the bible say that?

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               a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7)
               The Bible compares the number of stars with the number of grains of sand on the seashore (Genesis 22:17; Hebrews 11:12)
               Scripture proves a revolving earth (Luke 17:34-36)
               The Earth is round (Isaiah 40:22)
               I have more things like this if you are interested. Also, some of them take a little understanding (such as the one about the Earth revolving).

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                  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

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                     a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Isaiah- circle, sphere: does not matter. The Hebrews did not have a word for "round" so circle was the best they had to describe it.
                     Job: it hangs upon nothing aka free floating, it's just there- thanks to gravity and other laws of physics.
                     Luke: Jesus said that at His return some would be in bed, at night, while others would be working in the field, or in the mill. It is obviously talking about daytime, since back then, as in today, people do not work in fields at night, and they did not mill at night either. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night occurring simultaneously.

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                        Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Isaiah 40:22 describes the ancient Egyptian and Greek belief of a canopy stretching across the "earth" - a flat earth was a disk, not a sphere, which is supported by the four mountain ranges on the edges of Europe, Asia and Lybia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anaxi … map-en.svg Job 26:7 Can mean anything. Gravitational theory and any form of understanding of physics didn't begin until the late 16th century by Galileo. The author of these Biblical stories didn't have a clue about gravity, what stars were or where the sun went every evening.
                        Genesis 22:17 and Hebrews 11:12 does not compare the number of stars to the gains of sand onm the beaches. Read it again.
                        Luke 17:34-36 "34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] " Has nothing to do with the rotation of the earth.
                        The Bible isn't meant to be a history or science book. It's purpose is to promote faith and not to be taken literally.

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                  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Nice one, I missed Job 26:7!

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               aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Psalm 147:4
               He determines and counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by their names....
               
               Jeremiah 33:22
               As the host of [the stars of] the heavens cannot be numbered nor the sand of the sea be measured...
               
               1 Corinthians 15:41
               The sun is glorious in one way, the moon is glorious in another way, and the stars are glorious in their own [distinctive] way; for one star differs from and surpasses another in its beauty and brilliance.
               
               Hebrews 11:12
               So from one man, though he was physically as good as dead, there have sprung descendants whose number is as the stars of heaven and as countless as the innumerable sands on the seashore.
               
               Isaiah 40:22
               It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.....
               
               Not found one for the world 'revolving' yet, but will keep looking....

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                  a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  See my above reply about my reference to luke.

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                     Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     So, people in biblical times knew it got dark at night...amazing...

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                        a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Again,
                        Jesus said that at His return some would be in bed, at night, while others would be working in the field, or in the mill. He is saying some will be sleeping and other will be working. It cannot be day and night at the same time.

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                           jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           As I type, it is Noon {Tuesday} in Hawaii, 2am in Moscow {Wednesday} and 11am {Wednesday} in New Zealand. Night-Day exist on the same planet always. Kind of cool.

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                        aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Guess the sun tracking across the sky was a dead give-away also, though they may not have reasoned why it did it, the RCC neglected it for centuries!

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                           a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Exactly. If I had been them I probably would have thought it was flat...The sun is here, now it's gone. Where does it go? It seems so strange to us that they could believe stuff like that.

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                  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  John/aguasilver: it's amazing how these forums get off topic so easily. I know you are simply responding to paradigsearch, but his response has nothing to do with the original forum question. Usually when that happens, I simply choose to ignore them.

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                     paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     @Dave Mathews
                     
                     You are wrong again. As usual. And so blatantly and obviously so. My response to your OP directly addressed your OP.
                     
                     I herewith quit trying to be nice to you ( http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/101041#post2158433 ). In other words, I give up on you.
                     
                     For a religious person, you sure seem full of animosity a lot. Oh, well...
                     
                     Goodbye and have a nice life. Sad really...

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            Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Why were people tortured for saying the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around?

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               a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               My guess would be because people want to be "the center". I honestly don't have an answer for you in regards to this matter. Though I do have one for the "the Earth is flat" argument, which is essentially the same. People don't like to be wrong and are willing to kill each other over it.

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               Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               What has this got to do with the original question? You just gotta stick your two cents worth in and it's not even worth two cents.

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                  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  It has to do with what someone else said...
                  
                  Hey...public forum...people will sometimes disagree with you... it's not an attack, it's not persecution.

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                  a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks Dave I've been feeling a little trapped...I'm not used to throwing all this info out there!

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      Sturgeonlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If Adam and Eve did not disobey we would have no knowledge of evil. How bliss would that be?

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You wouldn't know what Good is either. Ever stop to think about that?

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            Sturgeonlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It does not mean we had no knowledge. We had knowledge of purity and goodness. God wanted to protect us from the knowledge of evil and shelter us from it. But man challenged this and chose to know evil.

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               Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               And you can prove that, how exactly?

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                  Sturgeonlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Before disobedience the bible tells us that Adam and Eve lived in paradise on earth. Paradise to me would not have evil...logical deduction.

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                     Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Logical deduction? Based on what exactly, a skewed perception? Thank you for showing you're not rational or logical.

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                        Sturgeonlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        If one believes the bible then Paradise without evil is a logical inference. Please know that it is ok to defend your position but it is in poor taste to make personal assults. Discussion ended!

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                           Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Personal assault? Talk about foolish perceptions.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Cagsil so would that be a bad thing?

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         Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         And what makes you think we would want to know about evil?

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      a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      God created Adam and Eve perfect, had they never sinned they would still be alive and we wouldn't be here at all.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Where did you get the idea we wouldn't be here? Of course we would. Life wou simply be different.

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            a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's possible. God may have said to Adam and Eve "go have sex" after a while, they just ate something before He got to it. But, I think God was pretty pleased with His creation just the way it was. I don't know that He would have changed it, especially knowing what would happen to it.

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               Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               God told them to do that right away. He told them to be fruitful and multiply.

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                  a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I find Genesis to be a very frustrating book, and it's also hard to find information about it that is logical. The story about Adam and Eve is also very short, compared to other stories. We are not told how long A/E were in the garden before they sinned- it could very well have been a long time. In which case, I have a problem with the "fruitful and multiply" thing. It's one of the first things He tells them to do, so why didn't they? Why did they wait until AFTER they sinned? Maybe God meant "be happy and grow the plants/animals by taking care of them".

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                     jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Hello 49er,
                     
                     There are several books, letters accidentally-on-purpose, left out of the first compiled bible {circa 1480 in the Gregorian tradition} regarding Adam/Eve. Some have cause to say they were false, yet with recent unearthing -the likes of the Gospel of Tomas, Letter of Mary M, Secret Book of John, etc, -it leans one toward a bigger picture of the Message. So much information. Information that would utterly, completely and forever destroy/remove/dissolve all of Theos {science & sensation}.
                     
                     James.

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      Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, there's an open question as to whether there would even be an "us" if Adam and Even hadn't eaten the fruit. They didn't have any kids before the fall, and some people believe that it wasn't just the pain in childbearing, but childbearing itself that God decreed.

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      onegoodwomanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If we had not disobeyed in the very beginning..............
      
      
      My husband would not be sweating his life away, 12 hours at a time in the desert sun to provide for his family.
      
      I would not be working 60 hours a week, feeding others, while my hard working hubby sees to his own dinner.
      
      
      There would be no disease...........for we would all eat of healthy foods......
      'There would be NO miscommunitcation among cultures, customes and
      countries...............for we would all speak the same language.
      
      There would be no " false gods"......no arguings among the many sects of those of same basic faiths.
      
      
      I think.........that most of us would stop worrying about what " we could have been", and spend our time, concentrating on what we are..............the children of God.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There would also be no need for a brain because we would have no knowledge and wouldn't be able to think, hence the concept of doing what we want, going where we want or eating what we want would have no meaning.
      
      We would become empty automatons.

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   SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years ago

   well...it's kind of early for me...but ya got me thinking.......thinking....
   
   so.....without other emotions except happiness/love....and walking through life forever (not sure if i really want to live forever, and ever and ever - would i age?)...would i miss eating meat, fish, chicken? - I think so...would it affect my thinking or i just wouldn't have to think because everything would be perfect?  i'm not sure what perfect is...we'd have different ideas of perfection right?...who would do all the work?...if i'm just happily roaming in peace forever...is everything provided? do we all have the same skills?...who'd make my motorcycle run or even manufacture it? - or do i just know how to do everything?
   
   those are my first thoughts on perfection or eden

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Someway: You could and would eat as you liked, meat, fish, chicken, God never forbade any of this.
      Would it effect your thinking? I doubt it. Who would do all the work? we are all given specific abilities and taught to do specific tasks whether it be teaching, or plumbing, or electrical, etc. you would do as you were trained upt to do, but you would not have to do it for the love of money, simply because someone needed you.
      Think of a world without any need for politicians, or police, or taxes.

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   aguasilverposted 12 years ago

   What happened in Eden was humanity showing it wanted to do it's own thing, rather than be in total fellowship with God.
   
   This is the trait we still have, as a result of the original sin committed.
   
   God seeks to know that we acknowledge who He is and that we want His rule over our lives, and even in today's world, when you let God rule your life, He takes care of things and life is sweet, perchance not as sweet as it would be if humanity had never broken the bond between us, but as good as it gets this side of eternity, when we have re-established the bond with God.
   
   Interestingly, the answers presented here will (I would think) reflect accurately our personal relationships with God in our lives.
   
   What would we be doing, had the sin not broken the link?
   
   I think we would have gradually been taught the ways of God, when we matured as a species, and would have grown more like Him with each generation, until we were entrusted to carry out His commands over the earth.
   
   We were designed to be the caretakers of the earth, but sin eroded that ability and concept, without sin, we would be living in the perfect world that God wanted us to have, and which we lost by our rebellion and self will.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      aguasilver/John: I'm not so certain that God would be so concerned with us today, had Adam and Eve not failed the original test.

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   samsons1posted 12 years ago

   If there had not been a fall, there would also be no reason for redemption.  With no need for redemption, there would be no need for a Savior, so what are you going to do about Jesus?  With no sin, there would not have been a need for God the Son.
   
   In other words we would all be as God.
   
   But God knew we would fall because we are a little lower than the angels, it's our nature.  That's why He provide the Son, the Lamb the sacrifice because He knows us better than we do ourselves...

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   Uninvited Writerposted 12 years ago

   This would be a great discussion if Adam and Eve had actually existed.

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      a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Why couldn't that have? Someone had to be first- names don't necessarily matter.

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      aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You don't look old enough to have been there to know about that?

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         And, neither do you.

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            aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks Ray, must admit I cannot remember it either!

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         a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Haha, no I can't say that I was. But regardless of where people came from (or whoever/whatever was before that) there was still a beginning. Whether that be God or a pool of bacteria, take your pick.

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   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   Without evil is as the animals live. Can they be blamed for preserving their own survival and making the planet what it is?

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   AshtonFireflyposted 12 years ago

   If Adam and Eve were truly real, and not metaphors....
   my personal opinion is that if Adam and Eve didn't do it....someone else would have.
   They would have had kids. Those kids would have had the choice to eat of the fruit of the tree of life. Odds are that one of them would have chosen to do so, as Adam and Eve did. I think it's somewhat of a stretch to assume that it was all upon Adam and Eve's shoulders.
   I also am of the personal opinion that Adam and Eve and the story of the Garden of Eden was probably metaphorical. But that is my two cents which not many Christians agree with, so...so be it.

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   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   "Why were people tortured for saying the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around?" The Catholic Church was and is the representative of God. God is the center and so for the church to be the center, the earth had to be the center. Today it is a bit changed. Man is the center by the highest known and accepted evolutionary progress.

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   @a49eracct
   @aguasilver
   
   Thanks. I guess I got some homework to do now....

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      a49eracctposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      www.thejesuscommandment.com
      The screen that pops up has a link that says something about how the Bible is divine (under his first paragraph). I'll admit I don't quite agree with EVERYTHING he says, but it's a good place to start.

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    jacharlessposted 12 years ago

    ...we would not be having this conversation and probably none of us would exist.
    the immortals, imperishables did not need to procreate.
    
    knowing good-evil {meaning the processes of reason} was the issue, nothing else.
    Nothing textually points to humans being denied Knowledge, nothing. In actually the text emphasizes humans having full knowledge and not needing to engage it for their existence. They are the sum-substance of Logic/Love. Explain why they needed to Reason.
    
    James.

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       aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Good point. +1

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    Emile Rposted 12 years ago

    I think questions such as yours comes from a difference between what ' in God's image' means. If we were simply the physical image of God, hanging around naked for an eternity might make sense. But the image probably has more to do with our ability to think on a different level than the animals; than it does with what we are physically.
    
    If you notice, the story doesn't say God hung out in the garden 24/7 so, do you think humanity was supposed to do that also? If so, would you be more than a glorified pet?

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    Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

    And if your parents had't put diapers on you. you wouldn't have had to learn to properly use the toilet. Ignorance is bliss.

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       Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       That's back at Dave.

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          Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Dave's not here...

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             A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I just notice Dave's been banned from Hubpages. Does anyone know what happened?

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                aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Hello and welcome back, long time no see!
                
                I don't think even Dave knows what happened, at least he has not told me what went down, but a total ban is pretty drastic IMO.
                
                Where you been?
                
                John

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