Religion is.....
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago
0 Ah, so hypothetical christians are better than real ones?
Absolutely!
As are hypothetical atheists.
So, according to what you have just written, that (the secular) government is causing all the death and misery, in the middle east, is that the christian secular leaders or the atheist seculat leaders? Or acombination of the two? I'm confused?
Ah, it's all the (millions) of atheist organisations that are doing ALL the good, and the christian ones are spreading mysery. Ok, I think I got it now.
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
Very touching. Destroying angels, true miracles, power of prayer, the whole bit. Nice.
Still can't answer my question though?
aka-dj - lost me. If you are saying christians are no better than any other self-serving group, I agree. What a shame because they could be different if they followed JC's teachings.
viralinfection - sorry - make your own bragging list. I claim no affiliation with any group good or bad. I am just me. But if you want to claim some - be my guest.Hmmmm. I never questioned them. Only you.
You are some how affiliated with them? I never knew. Well done - you are awesome. Thanks.
I was fooled by your gruff exterior, aggresive posturing and threats of eternal damnation.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Well done vp. You truly are a wonderful human being and this pretty much clinches it for me. * claps *
Aroooo!
Puny?
And here are a few atheist charities -
http://www.redcross.org/aboutus/
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.ns … enDocument
http://www.ifrc.org/
http://www.pih.org/home.html
http://www.foodbankcentralflorida.org/
http://www.handsonnetwork.org/
http://www.habitat.org/
Yeah I know, Habitat for humanity is non-christian, but not worth arguing over.
http://www.jcca.org/
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.c … orgid=6433
http://www.directrelief.org/
http://www.feedthechildren.org/site/Pag … g_homepage
And the biggie -
http://www.unicef.org/
Can't really claim that atheism is better than Christianity though. Or that this in any way demonstrates that my lack of belief is better than your eternal damnation thing....
Sounds like an insult to me......
Nice. Very christian of you. "But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and curse you."
Not a big believer then?
Thanks. Once again you have proven the value of your religion.
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
Not a shred I am afraid.
This is largely because it is not true, and there is more than enough actual evidence around for me not to be able to conjure up the necessary blind faith.
I don't need to forgive them. I just try and prevent them from doing it again as best I can.
And it wasn't that long ago. I heard Sarah Palin tell me the war in Iraq is God's war. For me there is no room in what Jesus was supposed to have said for a christian to be OK with war and killing.
Yet I meet them all the time.......
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
The Muslim- Christian fight is still going on
Each is still looking for dominance- when will this madness stop?I will try to stop it
through knowledge Bye it was a pleasure
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
Ah. That is the trouble with basing all your knowledge on "feelings," or faith.
I have never said any such thing, although there are many I have met here who justify their actions by using scripture. And the brief moment in history continues to this day.
See Palestine.
Np apology needed.I think people think that just because you see flaws it means you pick them out on purpose...Hell, I'm a big pessimist and I still see the good in people, it's just easier to see wrong doing and resolve it, at least in my mind...
People invariably see what they are predisposed to see.
Oh, he is an atheist, therefore he hates god, and hates me because I love god, and thinks that jesus' teachings are inhumane, and agrees with the communist's killing of christian believers in Russia's dark times.
That is the trouble with believing in the faith you believe in. All your decisions have already been made for you. You have been "taught what to think."
I am always open to listening to what anyone has to say, and make a decision based on the things they say and responses I get from them.
There are plenty of believers I have had contact with here that I respect and we have managed to interact well. Some I will clash with. You know the ones. But then another comes in and sees a christian vs an atheist and take sides.
I haven't decided about you yet - the only thing clear is that you are in pain. Not sure why yet.Oh, please don't take it as offensive, because there was none meant. It was more an observation. You seem at least as level headed as any one else I know. Admittedly, that is not saying much.
I'm a musician...I have the right to be "a little" crazy
No offense taken, I was more or less confused about it. I think you might be one of two people, Pam (pgrundy) the other one, who sort of read my mind on the "pain" thing.Well, I cannot claim to read minds, but I worked as a massage therapist for many years, and I guess you spot the "signs."
Probably best not discussed on an open forum, but if you think an 'atheist" might be able to offer a different perspective, feel free to drop me a PM through my profile. Despite my outward antagonism towards many Christians, this is not necessarily for the reasons most people jump to conclude.......You never know - I am an aspiring musician myself so I am at least as crazy as youI don't mind open forums, as long as the atagonist can handle a sarcastic response once in a while
I am a recovering agnostic, to tell you the truth. I believe in faith because, in my case, I have something to lean on in my mind. Whether it exists or not is not what perplexes me as much as the ability for me to lean on something I can't see or touch, and whether that reliance is ona deity or just on my soul, there's some consolation there.
I'm always up for differing perspective. Gives me the ability to think as others do, since I am finite and I think a certain way. Obviously some don't feel they need faith, hence why they don't believe (Paraglider, per example). Me on the other hand, I have too many issues and somedays I think it's only by faith I stay together...
Feel free to email me personally on a closed discussion.
- Onusonusposted 15 years ago0
- Leta Sposted 15 years ago0
I am well aware I will not change anyone's mind about what they have already decided - I am not trying to.
Once you have made a decision that there is a god and that the bible is the word of god or at least that your particular church interprets the bible in a way that agrees with your pre existing beliefs, and you can feel comfortable that god thinks the same way you do, you are pretty much set. Everyone needs a friend.
I personally do not feel the need to have faith in something that does not exist. I used to, but like many people, this was because I had it drilled into me as a child that that is what everyone thinks and therefore is correct.
At some point, I began to question things because it just plain doesn't make sense. There are ways around this, and I am pretty sure there is a religion some where for just about every one which offers a god that just happens to think the way you do
As I became older I realized that not only does it not make sense, it is a deliberate ploy to subjugate people.
I also feel that the idea of an all powerful god actually prevents us from growing, and moving forwards either scientifically or ethically. Who knows where we would be if we had not spent so much time and effort worshiping, building edifices (which we call symbols) and killing each other for a god?
Who knows what morals and ethics we could have developed if we hadn't been clinging to some bronze age world view?
And even when we do make a step, the religious claim this is because of god. Oh - let's ignore the fact that we basically wiped out an entire indigenous people, focus on the fact that this is a "cristian" nation and those dead Indians are just because we are imperfect. In god we trust .......
We should at least give credit where credit is due. But no - we are worthless sinners not fit to grace heaven's door.
Or if you are one of those that translates god's 100% perfect word to mean something else, then whatever it is you translate it to mean.
What a waste of time.
And after that rant - I personally am speaking to the people who have not yet decided, and probably are not taking part in the conversation, and I enjoy winding up the zealots.Therein lies the problem.
Like t.keeley, I toyed with atheism for a while, but always felt that there was something more. I have seen a few things that leads me to believe in a creator. The key is that I understand that the existence of a supreme being cannot be rationalised, and I will never judge anybody on faith alone. Whilst I decided upon Orthodox Christianity, I am not the biggest fan of dogma, and that seems to be where most of the problems lie.
I rarely go to church, feeling closer to creation at the top of my mountain. Whilst Orthodox churches are beautiful, they are not where I choose to 'worship.' I also believe that the bible is a moral guide, not a rule book, and certainly not historical fact. Evolution all the way for me. In fact, I do not believe in the concept of sin, so whether that makes me a bad Christian, I do not know, but have long ceased caring about the judgement of others.
As you can tell from the name, I like to dig around the fringes of religion, and have a respect for the holy men who live on inaccessible rocks in the Atlantic or some isolated oasis in the desert. For me, treading the spiritual path is a personal journey, and I feel no pressing need to try to convert others to my way of thinking. I respect the beliefs of everybody else, be they muslim, hindu, atheist or whatever, and I find that most people respect mine. If you look for an argument, you will find it, and I cannot see how humanity benefits from strife and turmoil.
I prefer to measure a person by their actions, not by their particular interpretation of whatever Holy Book they follow.
Sorry about the rambling - I seem to be on one todaySeems pretty much my approach, but without the need for a creator
Also - I choose not to respect certain beliefs. I have a hard time accepting that the war in Iraq is god's war, or that I am a sinner and going to burn in hell. Which a lot of people believe.
I must admit, I had rather thought this to be an out-moded concept, but after spending ten years living in the US, I came to see that there is a massive resurgence in this way of thinking. Many American politicians tie in their belief in god to their political "convictions." And this is almost required to be elected in that country.
Unfortunately it is once again connected to an "outside," threat. Whether that be terrorism or radical Islam or dependence on foreign oil or whatever. As a keen student of history, I see where this way of thinking led in the past, and it seems to be heading there again. Just look at the discussion on Israel in the politics forum. I also live close to a Muslim community here, and get all the Arab TV stations. The same thing is happening over there.
Perhaps the scariest is when they promote an "inside," threat, such as the destruction of the family unit by homosexuals. No one in their right mind could possibly see homosexuality as a threat. Speaking personally when I was single, the more gay guys out there the better.
The beliefs I do respect are the type that involves private worship. If you want to sit on a mountain top "worshipping," a creator, that is your business. But when you start telling me you have the truth and I need to follow it or be damned, then we have a problem.
Although, if you do not see how humanity benefits from strife and turmoil, it seems you have not understood evolution
Like you, I believe in a complete separation of Church and state. Unfortunately, many of these so-called politicians manipulate their beliefs to garner power and influence. The Tory party used to do exactly the same thing with the 'Fear the immigrant' card - it appeals to the most extreme elements in society and breeds racism and intolerance.
Threats and fear sell. Fear of Communism. Fear of 'The Black Man' and fear of Islam all make people spend money, just to be 'safe.' The media manipulates science and religion to sensationalise and sell. As you can tell, I am not a big fan of the Australian Poison Dwarf.
As you say, my faith is a personal thing. Everybody treads their own path and that is the mystery of life. I have too many friends of all faiths and none to believe that any of them are 'wicked' or 'misguided.' I have gay friends and do not care what anybody thinks about that - I have developed a respect for the 'reborn' Anglican Church in that respect! I share some of the rationalism that if a creator condemns people to eternal torture, then I have no respect for that God. My rationalism leads me to believe in a non-judgemental creator.
With you on the evolution.Howdy aka-dj
Rupert Murdoch
I thought you meant John Howard, who has been deposed.
Old Rupe? He's American now! (well, dual at least)
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