Do you believe that most Americans believe there is a God. In the Philippines it is said that 95% of the people believe in (Jehovah) God.
Hard to believe, as very few actually make a real effort to follow the teachings of any God.
Given that most will decide for themselves what any God actually wants, even so few make any concerted effort to follow His desires.
I really dislike any blanket statements like this... Are you 100% true blue american? Do you do anything 100%. Why do people think that in order to follow God people have to do things 100%. This misses the entire purpose of Grace. We are allowed to make mistakes we are allowed to f_up, we are allowed to grow slow or fast. We are allowed to experience God as we are capable of.
Why put a stumblingblock of 100%, allow yourself time to grow in God and time for God to work out tough areas of the changing life.
I'd like to know where you got your statistics from.. or are you just guessing from your own hardened position and just couldn't wait to tell others what you think.
To summarize, there may be areas of difficulty in the christian life, and some may even give up, but we can't judge whether people are in God or out of God or following or not until they are dead and then their position is for God to decide.
Too many judges too little understanding.
Not everybody faces the same obstacles, not all go through the same training program. You impute law when you decide to judge and law is not what Christ is all about.
According to all polls I am aware of the vast majority do believe in God... but in many ways you wouldn't know it since those who don't have been increasingly vocal. Add to that the fact that the small percent who don't are significantly over represented in academia and entertainment, providing bully pulpits for their agenda.
What happened to all those churches? Did they pull them all down? LAWL
Academia certainly does tend to not appeal to believers. That requires actual facts and thoughts. Is it 95% atheist in the sciences now?
Actually it seems to be more about ego, so it is common in academics and the entertainment industry where egos are huge. I suspect it is prevalent in politics too, but politicians know they won't get elected that way in the US,...at least not yet...so they pretty much all claim to be Christians.
Right - Academics - ego. Scientists - ego. Fox News - ego (oh wait!) Beleebers - humble and quiet.
Yes actually. Unfortunately most are far too humble and quiet. That is why the polls show 90% or more believe in god in some form, but it doesn't seem that way...most stay quiet. They can't imagine the attacks from those who don't believe will get traction, but as long as they remain silent it will continue. As for the ego part, I meant to mention I like your new avatar. Seems appropriate and telling.
I've been wondering about the new avatar too. I've even zoomed in on Mark's profile too see if he'd photoshopped with and image of himself.
Believers do not have a duty to stand on street corners and harass passers by. Believers do not have to write books or make religious movies or knock on doors or even be in forums. As we notice in the bible, there were many people around but only certain ones were told the good news, or healed or picked as disciples. Gods message is really, "Change yourself first and the world around you will change. Your personal world, will then change others.
The work of spirit is to go to those you are sent to, a pattern seen in the bible. A work of flesh grabs a bullhorn and deafens people.
The fact that the people with the higher IQs have almost unanimously dismissed religion as nonsense should tell you that something is suspect about your beliefs.
Of course you are free to keep taking your prompts from the least intelligent people in society.
There are some very intelligent people who believe in God.
Yes, including most of those responsible for the very foundation of science...before the religions of scientism began wishfully claiming science as theirs.
Since they are in the minority, they are not the rule. There are always exceptions.
Most intelligent people know when something doesn't make sense. That includes intelligent believers. But when it comes to religion, it is a matter of emotive thinking, which involves strong emotional ties, such as parents, country, friends, etc. Clearly, educated people who believe in nonsense are not being reasonable...Instead of objective analysis, they succumb to emotional rationalization.
A very intelligent man wants to see his dead sibling again so badly, that he can't fathom that there is no evidence of an after life. When confronted with facts, the cognitive dissonance develops, but his emotions want let him think this through...critically.
Actually, it is the presence of intelligence that leads to belief. There are no temples built by tunafish.
Plus, this tendency atheists have on Hub Pages to claim that 95% of scientists are atheists is troubling. I would like to know where they come up with that number (out of their hats, I fear). The last study I read said that 75% of scientists surveyed believe in a higher power. That's a far cry from 95% that don't believe.
I think that 95% is a little high, myself. It also depends on what branch of science. A lot of studies have been done, I'll link to two and then provide a paraphrase that I found.
The first one says that 52% of scientists have no religious affiliation, compared to 14% of the general public. ("No religious affiliation" isn't exactly the same as being an atheist.) This survey questioned scientists at "elite research universities."
The second one surveyed "greater" scientists (defined as those belonging to the National Academy of Sciences). It found that 65% of biological scientists expressed a "disbelief in a personal God", and 79% of physical scientists. Most of the others were agnostics. Only 7% expressed a "belief in a personal God."
That, I get. To be honest, I don't see where it matters what anyone else believes. Why do atheists tend to want to herd agnostics into their ranks and pretend that one equates to the other?? It somewhat frets me.
I'm an atheist, and I don't want to herd any agnostics into anything. I think you're lumping us all in under one banner.
To be fair, however, i've come under fire from several agnostics because I'm an agnostic atheist. The disagreements go both ways.
You are correct. I was speaking as if all atheists on Hub Pages act the same. I apologize, I don't actually think that.
here's the thing, though. It is possible to be an agnostic atheist, and it's possible to be an atheist agnostic. I think a lot of the disagreement comes in when you go with preconceived and generalized stereotypes (not you specifically, but just in general) about what the terms mean.
In the simplest terms, they speak to two different things.
Atheism is a lack of a belief in a god. Ironically, when christianity first appeared in rome, the christians were called "atheists" because they did not believe in the roman pagan pantheon. I would go so far as to assert that most people today are atheists in some degree. For example, christians are atheists in terms of Allah or Krishna, etc. They lack a belief in those gods. Atheists just take it one god further, and have a lack of belief in ANY god. Some atheists go so far as to say "no gods exist". They're considered "hard" atheists - and I am not one of them. Until I have examined every god claim on the planet from the beginning of time up until now, I cannot assert that none of them are true - and I cannot foretell the future to see what evidence may be presented in the future.
Agnosticism, on the other hand, speaks to knowledge, not belief. Agnostics claim that they have a lack of knowledge about a god, and a lot of agnostics will say that it is impossible to say with absolute certainty whether you can know a god exists. therefore, since they do not know of a god, it is often safe to say that they ARE in fact atheists - at least in the simplest sense.
Atheism gets a bad rep, however. A lot of christians think a lot of untrue and negative things about atheists, and those beliefs are transmitted in churches, etc - which leads to a lot of misconception due to ignorance.
I'm not sure if that helps at all, but I thought I'd attempt to clear it up. Your apology was not necessary, but it is appreciated all the same.
Totally agree. In ancient Rome, Christians were viewed as "the other" and were considered to be the same as atheists are. In fact, in the ancient world, monotheistic Jews were also considered to be atheists in comparison to those who were polytheists. As Christianity became the dominant religion, older, pagan religions were demonized and marginalized. Even Judaism was marginalized by the Christian church.
As a result of such marginalization of the other and older religions, those who continued to practiced such religions were castigated, tortured, and exiled. These types of ostracization of older and other religions were rife in Medieval Europe and early modern Europe. Examples of this were the extermination of those believed to have practiced witchcraft and the inquisitions particularly in Spain. Another example of this madness was the Salem Witch Trial in Salem, Massachusetts in 1692. In many parts of the United States, atheism and other nontraditional religions are marginalized and frowned upon. Until recently, those who practiced Wicca were stigmatized by the general society.
It's said that atheists have now ousted gay people as the most "hated group in America". Fortunately (or unfortunately, for me) I get to be both. Fantastic. As a side note, coming out as an atheist was MUCH harder than coming out as gay.
When it comes to science the area of study is totally important. Some study sciences that lead to creation, physicists etc. Others study plant life or medicine or some just do research in a lab not having much depth to their pursuits. A chemist for example may not find much to indicate a higher power but a physicist might. One who studies the cosmos will certainly encounter God data.
Science has a mandate to eliminate the God hypothesis from their research. I have an ariticle on my wall from my small unimportant town, an article, by david suzuki, in which the title reads, "Scientists must be free to speak about knowledge that is good for society". Is there a repression of information to the common masses. Yes and we know this to be true. We are fed information that the mucky mucks want us to know. Newspapers promote certain angles, advertisements purport falsities to make their product sell.
Galileo said "science leads you to understand how the heavens work but the bible leads you to heaven".
The bible does make certain positive assertions as to scientific facts. In th beginning God created. A pretty ballsy statement, from a truthful God.
Does science stop where God takes over. I believe yes.
Will an intelligent person refute a snake in the garden of eden i believe yes but that does not mean they are too smart, it just means they haven't figured it out yet, inspite of their diplomas.
That is entirely false. No gods have ever been found in the cosmos by scientists, ever.
Again, entirely false, science is a process for understanding the world around us and does not have a mandate.
Then, please enlighten us all about the reality of talking snakes.
No people have ever been found in the cosmos either, and since God created the cosmos i would be interested in knowing if among these other people, Gods influence is there also.. i don't need to roll the dice for that answer.
Science does have a mandate. On my wall from the newspaper in my tiny town is an article by david suzuki, the headline reads thus:
"Scientists must be free to speak knowledge good for society" We see information corruption in all levels of society. Gulf war for example. Science does try to understand all things but are the end results published openly? Do we know everything accurately about the world around us as given us by media? books? Inspite of what science tries to do they do indeed have agendas, first, agenda to not cause mass panic, secondly to not go against the grain of what they have previously said. third to protect certain individuals including government policies and fourth there is a tremendous peer pressure to not include the god aspect in sciences relating to those areas both by the employers and the co-workers. Advertising is of course another avenue altogether.
the reality of talking snakes can be deciphered in three hebrew letters Sh T and N, sheen, tet and nun, also confirmed in N Ch sh (translated serpent in genesis 3) Once you figure that out or read a hub about it you will know what much of christendom has not yet discovered. I will be so very bold to mention that your beliefs, since you have been stating them for a couple of years that i know of, are rock solid and steeped in catholicism, which you must know, since you claim to know so much, is really pagantology.
The Bible also makes some very untrue scientific statementlike the fact that bats are birds, or that the earth has four corners or that good made the sin stand still (since, ya know, the sun always stands still , its the earth that moves). You'd think an all knowing good soul I dunno, know that.
The sun stand still... as we know Galileo revealed earths rotation around the sun. The sun appears to move around us of that there is no question. The term used in the bible would be a natural presumption based on seeing. When inquiring of God we do not need to be scientifically precise. As to the actuality of that occurrence there is scientific speculation involving computers which also couples Ahaz's movement of the sundial backward. If this occurrence seems impossible recall these words: In the beginning God created heaven and earth.
Bats are birds would also be acceptable since proper phyla recognition was unknown in those days. Both fly and have wings.. hmmm i hold no ill feelings toward this presentation.
four corners... a popular idiom, a colloquialism which has meaning to them in those days. This is fine since God, even in Jesus time, sought not to make marvelous revelation about things that may have been impossible to believe at that time; ie, medical, scientific etc.
As to whether untrue or not, is your opinion, not universal truth.
Is proper science an indication of a good soul? I think not.
The una-bomber was very intelligent, where is he?
what "agenda"? There's supposedly a gay agenda, a liberal agenda, and now an atheist agenda. Where were all these agendas published, because I apparently missed out on the mailing list, and I'd be interested in knowing what I'm supposed to do.
I had never thought about it... that is interesting. I know there are many names for the Power that has manifested in my life.
"The Philippines ranks a poor seventh among nine Southeast Asian nations in the area of education and innovation...
In all categories, the Philippines was falling behind Singapore, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam."
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/06/ … anked-poor
"University of the Philippines, the country’s national university, dropped 16 notches in rank to number 348 in the Quacquarelli Symonds' (QS) ranking of the top 600 universities and higher education institutions in the world.
Philippine schools do not even rank in the top 500 of another list, the Academic Ranking of World Universities, or in the top 200 of its lists by subject."
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/27 … in-country
What does this have to do with their belief in God?
Studies indicate trends of higher religious beliefs in demographics with lower education.
You are right. The more education someone has, they try to out think there is a God. It interferes with their intellectual ego.
Not sure that what is being interfered with but I agree - education is not a good thing for religious beliefs in majick.
And, that is a very good thing, because we wouldn't want uneducated people going around with inflated egos.
However, your statement really doesn't make sense. Let me demonstrate the flaw in it.
"The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organize our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us. "The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world.... The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense."
With that definition in mind, education would be first and foremost in supporting the intellectual ego and would not interfere with it at all, quite the contrary. A lack of education would not support the ego with it's attempts "to make sense of the world around us".
And of course, people with an education don't bother trying to "out think there is a God", they simply need observe the uneducated believers making fools of themselves as they attempt "to make sense of the world around us" using fairy tales and myths, instead.
It would be hilarious entertainment if it wasn't shown to be so dangerous.
I'm sorry, but I find your statement to be completely bizarre.
And, I completely understand why you would. That's the point, entirely.
J, my friend, yes, I completely agree with what you have said:
Truly bizarre with a capital B!....and oh yes, quite the jibberish, I agree!!!
I would say that certainly there is no sense at all to what "a troubled man" has stated.
Yep. There is no way that all of the modern day scientists and academics, on the cutting edge of 21st century technology, can know more than primitive, Bronze Age, savage goat herders. Makes perfect sense.
I hope you rethink this.
Modern day scientists will know more about science. But the primitive goatherder did some things that scientists will not do nor believe. Intelligence is a stumblingblock to some people. But then i know people who are overly intelligent and they can't hold a job. There are people with diplomas working at 7-11 ( a popular corner convenience store). Intelligence if you want to hold it high like some perfect standard is rather egotistical. Intelligence is indeed, a two edged sword.
That would be a belief held by those who avoid intelligence at all costs.
Intelligence takes on many forms. Your definition of intelligence is based upon your own preferences.
Some think being wise is better than intelligence.
Of course your idea of wisdom is based on your preferences also.
I see little intelligence in your posts or wisdom.
Hows your health these days?
Intelligence is still a two edged sword
Yes, an overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God and according to the latest studies, over 80% belong to a religious denomination. However, there are those who profess no religion, the Nones, even though they do believe in God, Higher Power, or a Higher Self.
There are a few answers that peak my attention. First, In someone's life at sometime they have to have heard in God. Excepting him is a different story. Also those who do believe I think cowar to the masses afraid of chastisement and being bullied by non-believers. From a personal standpoint, I can rest assured there is a God and I will be in his presence in Heaven one day. I hope you decide to follow suit. God bless all!
No, I think that believers are afraid that they will actually be confronted with facts, not bullying. Your faith in Bronze Age mythology seems rather silly when confronted with facts.
Why wish this nonsense on others? Most people can't even stand being in church for more than two hours, yet you think this type of torture, for eternity, would be some kind of paradise?
getitrite, you keep getting it wrong!.....The nonsense is coming from you...it is not at all about religion....it is solely about one's relationship with their Creator, Jesus Christ our Lord....either you love Him, belong to Him, follow Him and love others with His Love, or you don't....and that is your decision...God loves us too much to force Himself on us....but it you truly want to "get it rite".....if you truly want to live in eternity with God in paradise, and not the "hot place below", then now is the time to get it right, getitrite, before it's too late....you cannot change your mind if you end up down there....either you are for God or you are against Him....that is what He says in the Holy Scriptures....and if I were you, I'd get it right now....because when you find out that we Christians were spot on in our belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, and if you have already died, it will be too late and it will be such a trajedy!!!....You do not want to end up down there do you?....It is time to get real and "getitrite"
May God bless you and open your heart and mind to receive His great Love and to know peace even here on earth, before you step into eternity....and make no mistake about it .....we most certainly are eternal beings....God created us in His image....so we are eternal souls, and your soul will either go to God our Maker when we die, or down to the "hot place" .......it is solely your decision....but don't make the wrong one, I urge you....
just say it. Hell. You're threatening everyone that does not believe in your silly little god with hell. This is a sort-of-kind-of overstated version of Pascal's wager, and it's equally as ridiculous. Do you like to make it sound better by calling it "the hot place"?
If heaven is where the mob-boss murderer bloodthirsty, tyrant god obsessed with the smell of burning flesh lives - I wouldn't worship him for anything in the world or beyond. Of course, that's baseless, since you can't even prove he exists at all. You just want to think he does.
What you speak of is superstitious nonsense...and religion is superstitious nonsense, hence, claiming to have a relationship with a creator is delusional and superstitious nonsense.
He won't force himself on me, but he will send me to hell if I don't worship him. Is there really a difference?
If you would actually READ my posts, then you would know that I don't want to go to your vile version of paradise. And neither do you. You are just to indoctrinated to see how ridiculous your childish beliefs are.
I'm not afraid of your stupid God. He has shown himself to be completely impotent. If he was worth anything, he surely wouldn't need YOU to speak for him, and deliver empty, silly, childish threats. What a joke!
"spot on"...now that is complete, and utter lunacy. I have no fear that your worldview is complete garbage, because it has been proven...through common sense...that your beliefs are only childish fairy tales, and all believers are, thoroughly, brainwashed. How ridiculous!
Have you heard of Chicken Little? You should try to learn some valuable morals from that story. Seriously.
How disturbing that modern day Christians believe such childish absurdity. Simply disturbing.
"How disturbing that modern day Christians believe such childish absurdity. Simply disturbing."
and how about those modern day christians that don't believe in hell or a satan or a talking snake? Any bonus points for them or shall we just wrap them up in the same category as those that do believe in hell or satan.
Thats kinda disturbing
disagreeing and challenging irrational beliefs is bullying to you? Seriously? What is WITH christianity and it's "persecution complex"? Everytime someone disagrees with you about your god, you cry persecution. Everyone's out to get you all of the time - yet I seem to recall that the republican, christian right held the majority for quite awhile in recent past - and they did everything they could to limit, forbid or restrict the rights of others that didn't agree with christian morality. Unless someone is talking about throwing christians to the lions, killing them and torturing them for their religious beliefs, christianity is not being persecuted.
There's a big difference between persecution and scrutiny. I don't think I'm "attacked" every time someone shoves god in my face. When you come to forums and you open discussions that are open to everyone, how can you not expect to have conflicting beliefs? The notion is absurd, really.
We Christians get upset because we want everyone to be able to be in heaven for eternity with God!....and you know, it is so much easier to just disregard you people who are atheists, but because I am trying my best to emulate Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior, I choose to take the harder route of loving others and testifying about my God....I want others to be able to have the peace and joy I have in the midst of what is going on in this crazy backwards world we are living in...John 3:16 says: "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life" ....God doesn't want anyone to perish....and that means that if they do not know Him, they will go to hell (which of course would mean that they perished, because they will be tortured day and night for all eternity, instead of living in paradise with God for eternity...in His Love, His Peace, His Joy, and without any more tears, sadness, illness forever.
I don't want to be in your heaven. I used to be a christian. Studying theology and the bible in the original languages made me realize that I can't believe in it - so i became an atheist. "you christians" like to lump all non-believers into one category, as evidenced by your "you atheists" comments. There are many kinds of atheists, just like there are many kinds of christians. you can quote scripture all you want - I can do it too. The concept of hell alone is enough to prove to me that, if your god exists, he's an immoral tyrant.
Take the following scenario.
If a mob boss walks into your place of business and demands that you pay him a monthly stipend or else he'll kill you, you may feel inclined to oblidge. If you don't, however, and the mob boss comes back and kills you, just like he said he was - is it your fault? Did you commit suicide by mob-boss because he shot you in the head? No! He killed you. He is at fault. He tried to scare you into obedience, without question. He killed you because you acquired knowledge, and condemned the rest of humanity along with you - oh wait, that was your god. Eternal torture is insane when you claim it is being done according to the will of your god.
Jesus says 'not all those who say lord, lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven - even if you've prophecied, healed and done miracles in his name.'
Let me give you another scenario.
Say that your pet gets a shard of glass in their foot. Do you remove it? Do you leave it in and watch them suffer because they didn't come when you called to them? Now say it was your child. Your child has a shard of glass in their foot. They're crying out for help. As you watch, you realize that they've fallen upon a fire-ant hill. The ants are covering their bodies and they're screaming for help.
As you watch, you remember that yesterday your child was angry and said "I don't believe you're my parent after all". You turn away, knowing full well that they're going to die, as the ants start crawling into their open, screaming mouth. But you say, in passing, leave me - I never knew you.
What parent would do that? Could you do that? Could you watch your child suffer an agonizing, horrible death that only lasts for an hour or so? (let alone an eternity, as christians and other self-righteous people sit up in heaven and watch you suffer) Could you turn away and refuse to help them, although you had the power to? Chances are high that the answer is no - even the most callous, hardened human being would feel compelled to help a suffering child (most of the time) regardless of whether that child was theirs or not. You're telling me that your god is worse?
No one chooses to go to hell - god sends them there, for using the brain that you claim he gave them and asking for evidence that he exists at all. According to your beliefs: 1) god created hell 2) god created humans 3) god created the rules by which humans are judged. 4) a human being can say "i don't want to go to hell" 5) god will send them there anyway, if they've denied belief in him based on nothing but blind faith.
The point of annhiliation instead of eternal life is not based upon goodness. A good person has no right to eternal life. A good person has no leverage to live in your house, although you would let them stay there, eternal life does not have that advantage. The decision about who has eternal life and who does not is based upon a different set of standards. Compatibility, being one of them. Closeness being another. A stranger cannot just walk into your house and start watching their program on tv, Just like married people do not stay married for long. Eternal life is far more complicated based on certain criteria for everlastingness one of these criteria seems to be faith. Goodness is a fruit of the spirit not a qualification for eternal life.
As to ensuring the safety of a loved one... first we need to evaluate the loved one... some people have been killed for their inheritance money.. you see where i'm going with this. Your daughter falls on an ant hill.. seemingly you both were on a walkabout together as friends committed to a certain path, if you will.. this is not the case with most people who do not believe God exists. Aside from that, God will always help people and we see this is many different forms other than a quick teleportation out of the ant hills path. God helps everyone.. believe in luck? that is God. Believe in destiny? That is God also... Believe in fortune? God. Believe that God feeds the sparrows.. how much more everything else... See moms cancer go away.. God. See medical advancements? God. See cures.. God (plants are the root of cures). God helps everyone everyday but those in Gods specific or perfect will (those that know him) rarely fall in ant hills.
Do parents love more than God since parents will pull their children out of an ant hill? Is something that is specified not generalized. Some parents or friends, acquaintances whatever, won't. Some will. change ant hill for hostile takeover of a company, or an accountant muddling the books... or a child who wants their parents inheritance and poisons just a bit.. go back in history to discover that job advancement was a question of how long the predecessor lived and we see that life in sundry situations is determined by the one who holds the keys to life. In the case of an ant hill, pulling them out. In the case of eternal life, relationship with God or leading them toward eternal life. In the case lol of hell, leading them away from hell.
Is God available to everyone. YES. Is God hidden? Not really. I found Him, took a while yes. Others found him. In some cases a parent taught their child about Him. Does everyone look up and think,, i wonder where all this came from? You decide the answer to that but i think everyone dabbles in "mysteries". Churches are on all the corners (hyperbole). Do you know about Him? .. apparently.
Yes, it's all about what YOU want, not what others want for themselves, so you get upset because you can't get your way and you wind up causing conflict and wars.
Again, it's all about what YOU want. Why can't you just leave others to what they want and go about your life minding your own business instead of causing conflict.
That is not your problem, then. So, keep you beliefs behind closed doors where they belong.
This is not what the Bible tells us to do. We are to spread the word throughout the world.
And, you will continue to cause conflict and wars as you do so.
Christianity is all over the world already, you can stop now.
Again, another fabrication that completely ignores history and the wars and atrocities caused by Christianity.
Oh I love Wikipedia especially that anyone can add to the facts . Its online entertainment at its best.
Yes, add to the "facts" - thanks for pointing that out.
Totally agree. Written by men just like the troubled one.
Oh, I see, you want to make sure the subject matter we're referring are not goats or watermelons, it is in fact referring to men. Got it.
Thanks for that clarification.
Oh course, to move beyond the obvious, we try to determine why these men over here commit atrocities towards other those other men over there, while the other men do no such thing nor would even consider it.
Hence, to say the cause of those atrocities is "men" one would be ignoring that stark contrast.
I shudder to having had to explain that on an internet forum to adults.
I do know history my friend. And I also know the causes.
Funny how history shows you to be wrong.
How very ironic. I was thinking the same about you.
And yet, you provide nothing to support your thinking, while I have provided plenty of information to show you are wrong. Ironic wouldn't be the word I'd use.
I shutter at the thought process as an adult like yourself. We will see the truth in the end.
The "truth" is probably that, in the end, we will see Allah or Vishnu or the JuJu God. I shutter to think that you have not chosen the right one. You should be frightened.
Of course, I'm pretty sure, in the end, we will be dead, and will see nothing.
The truth stares us both in the face every day, it's called, "reality".
This statement is very correct. We are supposed to spread the word. The difference is that we are supposed to let people make their own decisions but love them anyway. We aren't supposed to beat them over the head or try to scare them with threats of Hell in order to get them to believe. This is a big part of why people leave the church. The King James and other versions of the bible were created to instill fear and force conversion. It's not surprising that our beliefs get openly mocked and ridiculed
The king james version rather reflects the hellenized view of hades, an underworld of the dead which is portrayed in dante's inferno. This occurred when the catholic bishops tweaked the bible to reflect their "Universal religion" This is why the apocrypha was included in the catholic bible and still is today. Pagan beliefs were amalgamated to appease all the people and unify religious belief, Constantine was influential in 425ad of this movement.
When Jesus pointed to gehenna, where criminals were dumped (judas iscariot after hanging himself was thrown there before the morning sacrifice since no dead body was allowed to be in the city) Jesus was not talking about eternal fires, which is eternal punishING. (Bible says punishMENT) He was trying to convey and end, an abolishment, a total consumation by fire (lake of fire) that consumes completely and totally whatever is placed into it. John3:16... should not perish; perish means in the greek, destroy fully, destroy, destruction, cessation. In contrast, they should not have eternal life but eternal death.
So to say that the kjb was created to instill fear and force conversion, yes you are right and i agree but i agree for milder reasons. Demons and evil spirits were a part of pagan beliefs and jewish beliefs also, Hell and satan were personalized during the persia and babylon exiles) but many pagan beliefs (Queen of heaven = mary the sacred heart, ascended to God for example) were included as well.
The doctrine of hell is a hellish doctrine born out of malice and fruitful in its ability to spread terror and fear. This, as i have attempted to convey many many many times is a false doctrine. Once we get rid of the doctrine of hell we understand that God is truly a God who loves.
Some christians don't want to go to hell so they do the right thing and serve God. This is not love and the number one commandment is: Love the Lord your God with all your heart (thoughts) and soul (body).
Jesus said, "if a person love me they will keep my commandments". Love causes people to respect other peoples feelings, wishes and desires. If i love my wife I sincerely will not mind doing the things she expects of me. Gladly i will do them because i have her best intentions at the forefront of our relationship. When i do things I want to do i have myself at the forefront. A difference is that if i do the things my wife expects because she asks me, having little respect and regard for her then eventually i will fall away from her because doing what she wants is a LAW unto me and not a LOVE for her. Loving her keeps me in her ways as it does with God. A fear of hell will not produce love for God.
brotheryochanan- I rarely ever say anything in forums with a topic like this one..I just lurk as debate really isn't my thing.. So no debate here, I just have to say it's refreshing to run across another person who believes in God and Jesus but who does not believe in the literal hell. For a long time it never sat right with me because the love I've experienced from God is a love that tells me He would never harm me. There are some things you know and there are some things you KNOW... if you know what I mean? I don't believe in hell, no lake of fire or any of that. To me, the closest thing to any hell is living as a human being in this world. I'm probably not making sense... just wanted to say that and it's just nice to meet someone else who believes in God but doesn't necessarily believe in this "hell" I have always heard about.
You make perfect sense. The original Greek and Hebrew Bibles don't mention Hell. Hell was introduced in the KJV as a way to scare people to converting. Hell is a combination of Sheol(Hebrew), and Gehenna(Greek). Sheol is the place of the dead and Gehenna is where people were thrown into a lake of fire for their unbelief as punishment. The only lake of fire i can think of is a volcano
Thank you. As a sister put it to me recently, I stand on the periphery of Christendom. It is not an easy place to be; an easier place to be would be to just nod and say yes, but my research did not lead me to follow the norms of christianity. Even the atheists and non-believers don't want to suspect that this revelation is true, lol.
I am so very glad to hear you have found the same. Onward to love in Him.
I do feel exactly the same.. I don't have much of a voice though... but if someone asks I'm happy to tell them what I believe to be the truth. Yes, onward
Wise words, cousin. You should remember them.
Agreed, in the sciences there is a lot of peer pressure to follow the others. A scientist who says God dunnit will have the same career as those in Pilates day who say God dunnit, short and not unheralded.
The Bible states that in the latter days people will believe in God but will not acknowledge the Power of God. We must remember that He is Almighty and His Blood is so powerful that just mentioning it makes devils tremble. I have witneses this Great Power and Love is the result of using it. The key is Love! All Praise to Him, The Almighty, The Comforter, Jehova Jirah! Thank you for the great question.
I think most Americans believe in some sort of "higher power." Unfortunately, many don't act like it.
All sorts of people believe in higher powers or just powers. Luck for example, is a power that is claimed to bless, by most people. Destiny is another power that guides peoples lives. People believe what they want to believe, usually it is not very demanding and often not researched by themselves. Karma is another belief that north americans will lay claim to even if they are not born hindu; but do they understand the 3 ways of karma? which one do they fully follow? Few practice the correct belief of karma.
Like most unbelievers in God their ways are made up, picked from here and there, learned by society and adopted because they heard about it, chosen and molded to meet their own internal desires.
The person who has never been christian stands on the sidewalk afar off and speaks what society or some school book has taught them or adopts what tv says is okay. Belief come from somewhere but who follows truth and the high bar of christianity? People have come to know Christianity because their own personal agenda doesn't interfere with what they are learning about God.
Some believe their great aunt is magically instructing them about the future and an atheist will proudly speak up, i don't believe in that, as if it is bonus points to their atheism. Christians don't believe in that either but it is not accounted to them for bonus points. With christianity there are no bonus points the world gives us because 'personal agenda' rules completely those who live in what they call, the real world.
So higher power, lower power, natures power, the power of the dead, power of self, power of astrology, rune sticks, whatever a person wants to believe is adopted to suit what they want to believe. Christianity takes people to the end of their self, puts self on the shelf and changes lives something that x number of people don't really want.
Funny how there is this assumption that if a person believes in God, (a Higher Power, etc.) that they are a better person somehow. We are all human, good and bad and a belief does not change that.
Not very worthwhile then - is it? I could respect this belief if it actually produced better people. We both agree it does not.
I don't think "assumption," is the right word. Many believers in god claim to have the moral high ground. Or had you not noticed that?
I haven't read alot on here about having the high moral ground. I actually did a search for moral on this page, I came to the conclusion that is an atheist word.
I don't claim to have a higher moral ground, morals is one of the areas i don't get to chat about here lol, although of course i'd probably be the last person amongst atheists to keep the money from someone else's wallet that was found on the street - and i'm not just talking about a 100 dollar bill - i'd actually return 10,000 dollars. Can you imagine that, hmmm, maybe you can't.
Call it an assessment if you will, but really when someone is their own god then really they can do anything they want can't they? And isn't this serving self the whole idea behind not believing? Ya get to say what you want even if it is in absolute quantifiers, or lie about whos in your family tree, ya don't really have to stand up for anything except not believing in anything as a-theists put it sometimes, that needs to be defended; I for one don't buy that concept. Dealing with christians does promote some sort of idea of playing ground, but of course if not having faith in God has produced some sort of paranoia complex that would not be applicable.
I'd actually respect atheists and non believers if i believed it actually produced better people. We both agree that not believing in anything or God isn't a great indicator.
And of course if you wish to judge peoples character by what goes on in here, then i'd have to say that would be assumption.
(i love the way you just plow right in and tell people what they agree with - guess you had some left over ego to hand out, from yesterday huh.) I actually disagree with you, I know many christians that are exemplary people. I have heard and read of many others and i just know, because of the spirit of god working in people that Gods aim is to produce people that are better. I have none of these guarantees in you.
As to worthwhile... how would you know
I just call it as I see it cousin. But - glad you agree with me that believing on god does not seem to produce better people. Which rather makes it worthless - except for the arguments you cause of course.
I would know because I can discern these things.
I know many non believers who are exemplary people. Of course you don't respect them - you are too busy studying mathematics and radiometric dating for that huh?
I think the "reason" to believe is because a person believes that God exists and not to be a better person.
But - does the belief produce a better person?
In whose eyes? In principle, your question has a lot of merit. But, 'better' is a matter of perception. Don't you think?
Not attempting to be difficult. Most people act in accordance with what they believe others expect (so the belief of the individual is little more than a belief of what another believes), but the 'others' are not necessarily those who are most adversely affected by the beliefs. What appears to be 'better' is little more than an attempt to fit a mold. Beliefs are designed to be in the best interest of the believer and the particular group they want to be an integral part of. And, unfortunately, beliefs are not limited to cosmic questions.
Being willing to believe in the God of the Bible, the God of the Quran or any unseen power is little different from the belief in an unkind rumour; the belief that Dobermains are a dangerous breed; that Hispanics are better blue collar workers. Something, or someone, is always hurt by anyone's beliefs. One may gain, but another always loses.
So, who gets to determine 'better'? The individual, the person veiwing the individual or the group? Because, the individual will almost always decide that their belief is better. (They did spend time and energy arriving at their belief; albeit by accepting their understanding of another's beliefs) The person veiwing will, almost always, decide that their view is the better of the two. (They worked just as hard to hone in on their belief) The group will jockey for position allowing the strongest willed the upper hand and, thus, the right to judge. Yet, the strongest willed is always working under the assumption that they are in the right because they have correctly understood and agree with another person's beliefs. And, we know that might does not make right.
Shouldn't the question be contained to a simple 'Am I a better person'; while working under the assumption that everyone is attempting to be the best they can? Don't we create conflict in ourselves and the world at large by glancing about and wondering why our neighbor hasn't come to the same conclusions we have? Can we be better people if we only believe in the goodness in ourselves and the value of our beliefs and not in others?
The point is, I see our beliefs of the beliefs of others as the problem.
So - you are not capable of determining that a person is "better," than another then? You have never met anyone and thought, "Wow - that is a really great person."?
Does my opinion really make them better? Does your opinion?
No one knows, but you, what motivates your behavior. Isn't it the motivation that determines better? If there is such a thing as better? What, exactly, is better anyway? I doubt we'd all agree. Which complicates the whole thing more.
y'know being up against the wall like that you are gonna have trouble with your back swing.
Here's the problem with your statement:
Not very worthwhile then - is it? I could respect this belief if it actually produced better people.
You struck out on two swings.
Lost me. We agree that your (collective) belief in god does not produce better people. Quite the opposite if we choose to look at the historical record. I think you mixed your metaphors. That is the problem with trying to be clever without doing any work.
I agree that your belief does not allow anyone to be better. I believe that you could walk into a room of better people and not even know it. I believe that you choose to look at whatever you want the way you want for the reasons you want and i believe that what we want are two different things.
have a nice day
i was talking to mark.. My statement does not apply to everyone.
No it doesn't.
How do you go from 'just about everyone' to 'everyone'?
I suppose, there are no absolutes. But, having read your posts; I would throw you into the category of....the rest of us.
i am not surprised and i don't even know what 'the rest of us' category is all about. Neither do i want to know lol. It'll just mean i will have to correct something else again.
Off to better things. lol. psst.. don't tell mark
yes your innocence is duly noted. Perhaps the next time you make a ridiculous statement you will use the delete or cancel button succinctly provided below.
The fact that you do not know how to use the word succinctly correctly in a sentence has been duly noted. And, perhaps you should take your own advice on the delete button. It would serve to alleviate future embarrasment when you finally understand how ridiculous your statements usually are.
awww dida widdy biddy feelings get huwt. Point of matter is this is not about me, its about you. You can try to detour remarks about you to me but really your ridiculous statement got you in this mess. Man up k.
So - I am not capable of determining "better," but when I look at you and see "worse," am I not correct?
Seems to me you need to define better. This is something i had thought i did not need to do. The better which is being spoken of is better than they were.
you can only determine what your prejudice leads you to determine. Kinda like the way you interpret posts and biblical verses.
Swing three... next batter!
Oh - so I don't get to decide for myself? You get to tell me. And you wonder why your religion causes so many fights?
See - qualifying it like that is not what I am talking about. Better than me? Show me.
NO sorry Mark you do not get to tell me what i am saying. This is why people like you start wars.
You can decide for yourself how you want to determine it, but remember I talk in christianese which is a completely different dialect than yours, apparently. Would i as a christian purport that anyone is better than anyone else? I guess i better answer that before you tell me what how i should answer that. NO. 'Better than they were' is the only conclusion anyone who has the brains to think while reading these forums could come to.
You see why you unbelievers are in over your head. You think something is being said and it is completely wrong and then you get all mad about it.
Am i better than you... no... am i better off than i was before.. yes.
Got it now?
I can't actually respond to that post because you mentioned God and higher power so i have to break it down. k.
God deals with changing people and their lives. irrefutable.
higher power usually doesn't do much, lol.. i mean now you are talking AA with me. An impersonal higher power will always be subject to serpent talk, did the higher power say? well, chances are it did not.
But God says... a lot of things one of the things that is tantamount is that God wants us to know him and not to be impersonal. You can't love someone you do not know, its impossible. Relationship is what God wants. A higher power is not a relationship. Kinda big difference there.
So if i deal with the just God issue, then i think many people have to agree that Gods purpose is to change them and their life.. ooops i think i just mooted your post
have a nice day.
I think that most Americans do believe in a God/higher authority regardless of any affiliation with an organized religion
""""disagreeing and challenging ..... irrational ....... beliefs is bullying to you? Seriously? What is WITH christianity and it's ......"persecution complex"? """
No! it isn't bullying unless you would call a continous barage of insults and belittleing as being a bully, in that case ?? yes I would say "bullying" IS the right word
Anybody in the world can point to someone else and say those words. Too many of us do. which is what causes all the conflict in the world.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION
how have I personally insulted you, exactly? Have I called you names? Have I said that you as a person are stupid? I may have said those things about your BELIEFS, but not you, individually. Therefore, I am not insulting you. If I am insulting your god, he can always send the fire and brimstone - or lightning, or whatever. I would still refuse to worship him, even if he did exist.
Beautiful play on words ......
I didn't say that YOU look funny .... I was looking at your shoes and hat
and your tie ..... and that stupid grinn on your face.
I WASN'T saying that you personally were funny looking.
I firmly believe that the bible is false - it's immoral, it's horrific and it's terrible. The fact that you take that personally is not my problem. The god of the bible is a mob boss that likes to torture his creation like a child would torture an ant with a magnifying glass. It's ludicrous.
I'm sorry you take personal offense at that, but honestly, grow up. I'm insulted all the time. i'm called a fool, personally, because I don't believe in god. I'm called immoral and that I'm going to hell.
Don't you see a difference? Why do you take it so personally when someone challenges your beliefs, but you have absolutely no problem doing it to anyone else?
I mean, I get that you think you're right - and everything else is wrong. If you're right, don't you think your god can take care of himself and fight his own battles? He killed millions personally (or via angel of death, or by divine command, according to your bible) I'm pretty sure that if he exists, he has it covered.
I wasn't talking about you personally and I wasn't complaining
I was simply answering your question. If you took offense ? you need to grow up ALSO.
lol I didn't take offense. When you respond to someone directly, however (as in responding to their post, so it's in quotes) it gives them the impression that you're responding to THEM. Funny, that.
Yes it is funny how that happens and the one doing it doesn't even know it
It's a barrel of laffs ain't it.
it is, actually. Oh look, we agree on something
(albeit snark and sarcasm - you seem to lose your sense of humor the later it gets)
To say what you say about the God of the bible is an adopted belief. You have been brainwashed into believing this by others, peer pressure or you haven't done enough thorough and good research and most likely haven't listened when told differently.
You can read certain passages out of the bible and come to that conclusion but is that conclusion correct? In the example of elijah and the 40 children and the bears, we see a mob situation against one man. We see scorpions of the desert: those with no leader doing what is necessary to survive, in this case we can compare them to modern day thugs, robbers, murderers. Life and death situation for elijah, yep. Did your research tell you this? Or did you quickly turn the page or shut the book and decide, what a mob boss that God is.
When God took his people out of slavery and moved them out of egypt, lo and behold the nations surrounding egypt were hostile to them, the amalekites thought the old of age and those others who straggled at the back of the procession were "easy pickins". Some denied them access to cross their land to get to where they wanted to go. The promised land was occupied already, where were Gods people to go? Conflict arose, like nations did with others nations. The Hebrews faced having their babies dashed against the rocks and the women split open, facts of wars in an uncivilized world 5,000 yrs ago.
So my research tells me different than a mob boss, thank God he did bring them out of slavery what a kudos thing to do to the weakest not even a nation of people, just some slaves.. what man made God would care?
I hope you take the time to listen.
Sorry, but those who actually do research have never found any evidence whatsoever of an Exodus from Egypt as described in the Bible.
I have actually studied the Bible - at a Christian college, no less. The Bible specifically says that it was a group of children who called Elijah bald, and he cursed them. He was in no danger, and the passage does not in any way imply that he was. Read it again, perhaps in HEBREW
How in the world can you say I'm brainwashed. You're the one who is insisting on rationalizing and justifying the murder of children.
I am sure you did what you said you did. Since you were at a christian college brainwashing is quite possible. Did they also teach you of a talking snake? Sorry but in my estimation christianity perpetuates its false doctrines by encouraging theologians. Remember you can't be a theologian without answering all the questions correctly. Colleges breed theologians. Those who do not become graduates are drop outs. hmmm.
In reference to what historians say about hebraic culture ages ago, children were homeless due to war, or just outcast. This left them to struggle on their own, stealing whatever, even to the point of being cast out of the city to survive in the surrounding countryside, which if you have seen pictures is not a wellspring of accommodation, hence they would gather into communities, naturally.
I am sure you were taught what you were taught but 40 against one does not make a tea party. To call a holy man, bald head is the top of outrages and is not precurser to a tea party.
You need to do more research.
are you afraid, as a grown man, of a group of children? Can you not defend yourself or run away? Can you not call for help? Elijah's only recourse (note, that he had time to call to god, and was not actually being attacked or beaten, etc) was to CURSE the children in the name of god - who, in turn, sent two bears to slaughter them.
Why did god just not strike them dead? Why didn't Elijah kill them? What is the purpose of the bears?
I HAVE done the research and read the story in Hebrew. What more research is there to do?
Incidentally, I was taught in college that the bible was literal and the true word of god, so YES i was taught about the talking snake, and the talking donkey. When I became an atheist, I realized that those claims were absurd - just like the rest of the book.
hmmm well i guess you just blasted your school and your biblical interpretations out of the water. No wonder you left.
Since you were taught about a snake and didnt get inspired enough to do serious and thoroughly good research I gotta wonder.
Did you read about the talking donkey in hebrew.. then you missed the word translated as talking.. which means hung loose, slack. This is not talking at all, and as your ability allows you to read hebrew you seem to miss the definitions of hebrew. Thats a bit of a tosser huh.
The word serpent is a good translation although for a completely different reason, it is the definition for chet which sits as a coiled serpent ready to strike in between nun = life and sheen = teeth chomping. The vowel letters a were added much much later on. Here we have the word in the pictorial language of early hebrew: N(a)ch(a)sh.. the word rendered serpent in genesis 3. Which is also the hebrew/rabbinic idea of the yetzerhara and yetzerhatov natures of humans, ever heard of them.. i doubt it.
Stuff your ability to research and have a nice day
Incidentally, 40 against one is not good odds except for jackie chan. How you can discredit what i say by insisting that this is not a life and death situation shows me you don't like to be told your wrong, but, your wrong. If it were just an invite to a tea party would righteous elijah just curse them and would bears be necessary.. think man, think.
and have a nice day.
didn't leave, actually - just have a life and I don't have the time to explain the same thing repeatedly to someone who deliberately and willfully ignores everything that is said to go straight for the insult and the misconception.
There's this little thing called "reality" that I like to live in. Very good. Now you're good at mistranslating hebrew - do you actually read it, or do you just go for apologists versions of what it REALLY say?
WEll then i should just stop responding to you who doesn't seem to get the scenario of the 40 youths. Cursing takes little time to say, less time than running or fighting. God must have agreed there was a bigger problem here than meets your eye or He would have done nothing.
I am wired that when something doesn't sound right i check it out, the more it bothers me the more i check it out. I don't just run to an apologetic site and copy and paste. I check out both sides of the issue and i pray about it. I ask God what does this mean. I check the hebrew definitions and i sincerely worry about the answer. Disbelieving in hell did some take some rewiring but i am convinced biblically hell as portrayed in the church today doesn't exist. If i recall correctly that was about a 2 month struggle.
My mistranslation of hebrew as you call them is really just your own defense
children H5288 child, damsel lad, servant, young man. from the age of infancy to adolescence.
little H6996 quantity, size or number age or importance, least, young.
As i have mentioned a gang of 40 who probably had weapons.
Here read an article about child soldiers.
look at a picture:
So instead of just "When I became an atheist, I realized that those claims were absurd - just like the rest of the book" realizing that the bible is nonsense I would like to urge you to correct your thoughts. You see, i did not like the talking snake either so i researched, went back into pictograms and concluded an answer that is much much more reasonable than "that claim was absurd".
I read BO's response and found one statement you made curious enough to go back to. When you became an atheist you realized the claims were absurd? That is rather telling, if you meant it that way. Was it after you became an atheist, or was it one of the passages that led you to atheism?
Because, claiming it happened after the fact tends to sound as if you claimed atheism first, and then searched for validation. Shoring up a desire to believe. Because, let's be honest. When cornered, how many intelligent Christians wouldn't, themselves, find that passage ludicrous?
There's so much of Satan on here...he is the accuser after all... it's just something...I don't believe in Hinduism, but I'm also not on here bashing the Hindu religion, it's believers and getting my panties up in a bunch all over it. What's with these angry athiests who think they know everything?
this is a forum, where things are discussed. Why do you think we're angry? You have no basis to make that claim. We're not "attacking" anyone. We're discussing the christian religion, and criticizing something and pointing out flaws does not an attack make.
In my experience, it's only the people who have shaky faith that are afraid of it being challenged. I don't limit my challenges to christianity. I am an equal-opportunity challenger - and I can do it all without being angry for one moment.
All athiests are angry...You're angry at God and you rebel by not believing in Him, and lambasting the religion, calling it absurd. You rejected it, but I didn't. Have some respect!
why don't you start by having some respect for atheists? I am not angry at all. i can't be angry at something I don't think exists. You're making gigantic assumptions that are based on nothing but your own opinions - and they're just wrong. I feel sorry for you. You think that all atheists are angry. How many do you actually know? How can you tell me (and every other atheist on this thread) that we're angry? Do you know my feelings better than I do? Who are you to tell me what I feel? I don't have to be angry at something to call it absurd. I think that unicorns and bigfoot and aliens are absurd too, but I'm not angry at them either.
Some just get so worked up on a subject they don't agree about. Don't take it personal...to each his own.
Maybe people shouldn't go, blindly, believing what a 2000 year old book, written by ignorant goat herders, says.
That's what makes it so remarkable is God had to give these "ignorant" goat herders the words to write. They were simply not that smart to do it themselves.
I guess that goes the same for the burning bush, as it wasn't smart enough to do it alone. LOL
I see you have decided to abdicated your mind, in lieu of willful ignorance and irrational fear.
We are not goatherders as you so flippantly use the word to insult them, but 5,000 yrs later, some scientists, politicians, people from all walks of life have chosen to follow these goat herders, to take their writings seriously and on the other side of the world take up a belief in Jesus.
What sensational goat herders!!!! indeed.
I think you underestimate them and by insulting them, insult yourself.
The burning bush was brilliant! It was not so much the point that the bush burned but the point that it did not consume itself. Bushes in the desert sprang into fire quite commonly but they always consumed themselves and went out. We have forest fires today that happen naturally, huge forest fires yet what a sight if the trees were not consumed.
That is exactly why the "burning bush" is a myth.
a myth to you. Its your opinion. You never come out and show why the bible is not to believed other than you believe in what you can see or that science has said, even when scientific theories are not conclusive - see dictionary definition of theory - you still uphold these fractional guesses as solid proof. You cannot see lots of things yet God, unseen is not believed to exist. I would say airs existence must stump you but trees do move, lol. You purport that goat herders could not have access to a spiritual entity, the creator of all, when it is entirely Gods purpose to be known by non goat herders today.
In order to get a fact to be a fact it has to be supported by ALL the criteria, not just some. You base your beliefs on some criteria but not all. Darwin for example you believe in but he has been debunked, you probably praise the miller experiment as truthful scientific process, yet it has been debunked. Java man is completed from a skull cap (top) 3 teeth and a femur bone found 200 feet away, as the missing link between apes and man.
Indeed you have no trouble believing what you believe because you want to disbelieve in God. This is your agenda. I have an agenda to believe in God because i see Him in so many different ways and so very clearly, not because i have read so many debunked theories and chosen to believe they are not debunked, nor because i cannot unsee what i see even by choice and especially not because i don't want my life changed or to be proven wrong. I am open to good persuasive data for or against nothing at all like what you offer here. "the burning bush is a myth".. show me how or why but please refrain from snippets like that. I would say goat herders offer a better dialogue.
Nope. I'm sure they were actually JUST goat herders.
I'm only dismissing the divinity of fictional documents from the past, I can't understand how I am insulting myself by doing that.
In other words, you actually believe in magic.
There are many things that we commonly do today that 2000 years ago would have been considered to be magic. And I am sure that if civilization lasts another 2000 years they will be doing things which we consider to be magic.
SOoooo yes I believe in magic.
NO, I'm saying that 2000 years ago it would have been considered as such.
No, 2000 years ago, it would have been considered god.
what is the difference between god and his hand? Is there a difference between you and your hand? Are they separate entities?
"I" am many things which my hand can not claim to be.
that's backwards. Is your hand many things that YOU cannot claim to be?
Just because things are "considered to be magic" doesn't make them actual magic,
I can see how diminishing another people from ages ago would not insult you. Well actually i can't see that at all. How can we say anyone is stupid unless they are drooling in a wheelchair and even then we may be wrong (stephen hawking). To disbelieve in what people say because they are goat herders is like to say i don't believe so and so about math because they are flourists. You may even in your folly of dismissal think all people from long ago were idiots but you fail to remember that in the future we may be called idiots. hmmm.
But here you disbelieve in a people of low occupation although vital occupation, indeed necessary, whom believe in a God who created all.
So in your mind those who do not have a diploma of sort are not to be believed in our society in whatever they purport? You are a class distinction racist perhaps? I know about God but i know little about politics does that make me stupid? Many people know about certain things, even dungeons and dragons card games but because their expertise lay in one certain area are they to be discredited for whatever else they believe.
Your irrational condescension of a race of people based on their jobs and including the era of their existence is insulting to you.
Got it right now?
Magic (from dictionary.com)
1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.
I do not believe in this kind of magic as being real magic.
2. the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.
I do not believe in this kind of magic as being real.
I thought it best to define magic before telling you what kind of magic i believe in. I believe in the kind of magic that God can do. I could jump to the bible for many many examples of magic from page one of genesis to the last page of revelation. Indeed the entire bible concerns itself with a vivid portrayal of Gods magic. And God does other magic too.
It doesn't matter what kind of magic you believe in, it's still disturbing that an adult hasn't the understanding that there is no such thing as magic. To assert that there is an imaginary being, performing REAL magic, suggests a serious disconnect from reality. THINK man THINK!
That's your opinion and i think your life is lacking because of it. Since i know God exists its easy to believe in the topic of the this discussion.
Perhaps you should rethink man, rethink.
Magic has not been proven, by science, to exist, so my life is not lacking anything...except psychotic delusion, I suppose.
You don't know any God! You're just another carbon based life form, of no more significance than a housefly or its larvae.
again i will use the simple dictionary to address your psychotic delusion
Dictionary.com definition of psychotic number 4
4. intensely upset, anxious, or angry; crazy: Some people get so psychotic when God is mentioned. Synonyms: crazed, furious, enraged, wrathful, irate, incensed, infuriated; livid, pissed off.
dictionary.com definition of delusion
1. an act or instance of deluding.
2. the state of being deluded.
3.a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.
it seems to me your life has psychotic delusion, i suppose, and now i can write:
I know i am but what are you. (good for a chuckle) A carbon based life form also.
Finger pointing sucks because there are 4 pointing back at you.
you get one of my favorite pictures, dunno why, just felt impressed to do so.
Magic and sorcery are of the devil and have no business being mentioned in a thread about God. JMO
There is no such thing as magic. Also, there is no evidence of any being called the devil. To assert that an imaginary being performs REAL magic suggests a serious and dangerous disconnect from reality.
But, you don't believe in God? If so, why are you here?
I don't understand your question. Are you asking why I am on this thread, or why do I exist?
Why on this thread? Are you trying to convince people (like all atheists) there is no God? My friend I'm afraid you are wasting your time. As I would be talking to atheists. For some reason, atheists think that they are more educated, Why is this???
The fault lies with the theist. In an argument they always put forward an ancient book that contain illogical and idiotic stuff that contradict logic and the known fact against logic and scientific studies.
This is why atheist do not belong in these forums. They try and bully and out think there is a living God. You say I don't have proof. Where is yours. Why even come into a Christian forum and start with your same ole, same ole?
This is why theists do not belong to any forums. They try and bully and out anybody who oppose them.
"You say I don't have proof"
What proof? You asked a question and I answered it and you replied like any other bully.
It doesn't take much to out think your foolish God. Just read the bible. LIVING GOD??? Please...your God is just about as alive as a unicorn.
Proof of what? You are the one asserting the outlandish claims.
For the same reason you started this thread...to exchange ideas and opinions. And to make sure that you know...that we are here...to make sure your ridiculous beliefs are no longer afforded carte blanche status.
And people like you are going to be the ruin of mankind. You will believe one day. I'm afraid that day will be too late.
OF COURSE...I guess we will fly planes into buildings...deny rights to people...bomb abortion clinics...protest funerals of dead soldiers...start religious wars...WAIT!
Empty, childish threats don't scare anyone, except the very weak minded. Come up with a threat I can appreciate as an adult, please.
I am done. This an immature and preposterous conversation.
Because it is a public forum.
No, I am only pointing out just how foolish your beliefs are. It is up to you to stop the insanity. Even if there were a God, he wouldn't be this silly concoction in any of these absurd holy books.
In other words you are saying that psychosis is a rigid disorder, with a zero percent prognosis for recovery. I agree, it is probably close to zero, as believers are too afraid of the monster under the bed.
It's not that atheist think that they are more educated, it's that your beliefs are downright silly. It makes believers appear to be ignorant...although I know that the ignorance that they display is willful, because there are many highly intelligent believers. But as we know, even brilliant people are subjected to indoctrination and mental disorders.
And so are atheists. Even more so. Your arrogance astounds me. Where do you think you came from? There is a God that has made all of creation. No matter if you believe it or not, he also made you and gave you free will to think as moronic as you choose.
Typical Christian. Simply making claims and asking others to believe him and telling whoever opposes that they are arrogant and moronic.
Are you god, to be accepted meekly?
Typical atheist, Simply making claims and asking others to believe him and telling whoever opposes that they are arrogant! You just explained atheists to a tee.
Who told you I'm an atheist?
Who asked you to believe me and what you are going to believe? I didn't say anything much while you are making claims right and left and you are the one who used 'arrogant'first. Well that is also typical of Christians - jumping into conclusion in addition to feigning great knowledge.
I came from my ancestors. I can prove that, as I have a family tree.
Unlike my family tree, you have no proof,whatsoever, of this whimsical assertion. Do you, now, see how silly these beliefs make believers look?
Yeah, and Rumpelstiltskin can weave straw into gold, but I only believed in fairy tales as a child. It is quite disturbing when middle aged people still possess the same mindset as young children.
Atheist and their insults go hand in hand.
There is nothing ridiculous about my faith and my belief in God.
Yet you have no evidence to back up anything that you have asserted. I would think that this would fit the very definition of "ridiculous" perfectly.
It is you who started the insult and even if it is not you, your god has asked to show the other cheek and counter insult is your way of showing it, I guess.
There is nothing ridiculous?
There is nothing ridiculous about having faith but it is what you believe that is illogical. And people call illogical beliefs as nonsense and ridiculous beliefs.
Dear brother in Christ Jesus, you and I know the Truth and His name is Jesus!.........and yes, these atheists certainly like to insult us, don't they.....but the wonderful thing is, that they cannot hurt us....and the truly sad, sad thing, is that they are only hurting themselves, and are pushing their way through to an eternity separated from our Lord Jesus!.....They actually believe that death is the end....which is heart-breaking, because as we know, it is only the beginning of our eternal lives with our Creator, with our God!.....I pray daily, that our Lord Jesus Christ will open the hearts & minds of non-believers, so that they may know His great Love as we do!....(and I have some family members that don't know Him .....not yet....but I'll never give up praying that they will know Him, because nothing is impossible for our God!!!!
Bless you J and take care.....stay strong in Him!!!!
Thank you so much Helen!! May God bless you always!!
@JM........ I have come to the realization why you are so mad at the world. Your lifestyle. I could care less. So, take that chip off of your shoulder and be happy.
I'm not mad at anything. I don't hate god because he doesn't exist. Do you hate the easter bunny or unicorns or bigfoot? No, because you don't believe they exist. I don't care if you think I'm angry, but unless you're claiming to read my mind and know me better than I know myself, you have no basis for your understanding of me.
I laugh at these posts. I write here for fun - not for anger.
I understand that, for you, it is easier to assume that all atheists are angry at god or believers or christianity. It makes their rejection of your beliefs easier for you to handle. That security blanket, however, does not make your assumptions true.
The bottom line? I don't care what you think about me because your beliefs are irrelevant to me. Go ahead, tell yourself that I'm just an angry person. Ultimately, though, you're the one making baseless and stupid assumptions based on nothing but your own opinion.
Now this is a good point. Not all atheists are angry. Most that I know are actually happier than most Christians are because they are free of that fear that to not believe or to do wrong leads to Hell. If a lot of Christians lived their lives out of joy of their lives instead of a fear of the next life it will be easier to still do good. Do good because it is good, not because you fear anything else.
JM you be.....happy!! (lol.. had to do it for fun)
I prefer not to be "blessed" by a non-existent being - especially when that tyrant is portrayed as a god of "love" who enjoys the slaughter, torture and torment of millions.
May the Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you and give you knowledge.
I think about everybody. Humanity will only grow to bigger acceptance, tolerance and inclusion if we can put away "childish" things - which includes threatening people or appealing to fearful emotions by saying they'll end up in a pit of fire for eternity.
Be good for the sake of being good - not because you're hoping for a reward in the next life - or because you're fearful of the punishment.
JM.... You may find this hard to believe, but I have tried to be a good person all of my life. Life isn't always good to us, but at least we are still breathing. Honestly, wishing you all the best. We are of many people who just disagree on certain issues. This does not mean that we have to be enemies.
no, we don't have to be enemies - but my interactions with you have proven otherwise. You make assumptions about me. You call me ignorant or uninformed. You almost go out of your way to question my education and my motives - and then you show up in forums just to tell me how angry I am. it seems that your actions don't back up your words - and you have to live with the consequences of that. Just because you're being human right now does not mean that you'll continue to play "nice", and I will continually challenge your beliefs.
So, no. We don't HAVE to be enemies. But if we are, it is entirely on your end. Any respect that I may have had for you as a person has been lessened because of your behavior.
JM... I only have one thing to say about your response, what about your behavior? I am very passionate about my faith. This is what drives me. Why must you question my faith if you don't believe? Is it your intention to encourage people not to believe in God? If so why?
what about my behavior? I treat people the way that they treat me. If they talk to me openly and with respect, I will treat them with respect. If they go out of their way to ridicule me personally, that respect goes out of the window.
Criticizing or challenging your beliefs is NOT a personal attack on you. You may take it personally, but that's not my concern. I believe that faulty beliefs should be challenged.
I don't need to "convert" anyone to atheism. I've studied christianity in depth - in a christian college. I believe that using your knowledge is better than simply ignoring it. I have a problem with a lot of the christian beliefs - especially since a large majority of christians seem to know so little about it. They want to make sweeping claims about the bible, about jesus, about christianity as a whole and they're wrong. Just like you feel compelled to promote and expand your beliefs, I feel the need to challenge them.
I'm sorry if you've taken any of my challenges personally - but your perception is on you, not on me. I don't find it respectful to just go along with anything someone says just because it is their personal belief. I find it more respectful to challenge things that I disagree with and be honest about what I believe and why. In the atheist community, if an atheist makes an assertion that I disagree with, calling them on it and questioning it is the epitome of respect. in the christian community, things work differently. A lot of christians just assume that they're protected by the banner of "faith" and that no one would dare question or challenge them. I will. So will many others like me. The end result is a deeper understanding. I will at least get the information out there - plant a seed. All I want to do is get people to think about things that they simply assume to be true. Assumptions, as we've seen in our interactions, do not make things true. Facts and truth do.
...and Jthomp42 receives a hand clap in Heaven. To suffer for Christ is a great gain!
To be honest< I wish someone would tell me that they see me as less of a 'person' today. That just means you are looking more like our Great Creator!
All praise to God!, What a wonderful debate!!
On one other note,
I am one of those "silly"believers. I believe every word that the Bible tells me...EVERY! I believe the Earth does have four corners, that a man was swallowed by a great sea creature and spit out three days later, that the great flood did happen, Jesus Christ is God and He took our sins upon Himself so that we can be free from death.
I also have some outrageous beliefs but I will not share them here, not yet anyway. Its still hard for me to chew...but let's just say the sun is only pretending and the moon has followed suit. Darn, sorry...I'm still learning to shut up and Love more. God Bless Everyone!!
how exactly is JThomp suffering? No one is torturing him. No one is threatening to burn him at the stake or murder his family because of his belief. Christianity idolizes the concept of martyrdom and persecution - but modern christians in the US have no idea what persecution actually is. Having your beliefs challenged or questioned is equal to suffering? In what world? JThomp questions me and insults me all the time - does that mean that I'm being persecuted? No. that means that I'm being questioned by someone who claims to have the ultimate truth - but cannot prove it. The claim that this is somehow suffering or persecution is absurd.
JM.... Just let it go. This is what God has convicted me to do. Although, I do not remember attacking you personally?
Now you're telling me what to do? Why don't you let it go? Turn the other cheek or something.
You didn't tell me that I was clearly uneducated and that I didn't know what I was talking about? That's not attacking someone personally? It's not a personal attack to assert (incorrectly) that a complete stranger is just an angry person?
If Jthomp is a true believer, and I am willing to bet that he is, that means he has a great Love for you that is directed from God. This Love is not a Love the world is familiar with so it is hard for some to understand but he has that Love for you, as I do, even though I do not know you. Like I said it is directed from God Himself to... you.
Since Jthomp harnesses this Love, as I hope he does, his spirit may have been a little hurt by you seeing him as a lesser individual and maybe even for your soul. It is in danger whether you know this to be or not and Gods Love wishes for all to turn to Him and repent. When you become closer & closer to God, you weep when God weeps.
But anyways, rewards in heaven, God Loves you, so forth and so on. Have a great week everyone. See ya in another dispute sometime soon! Loving Hubpages!!
so JThomp expresses his great "love" for me by going out of his way to be insulting, demeaning and critical? I see. You're right - that's not a love that I understand. See, when I "love" somebody, I put them higher than myself. I go out of my way to lift them up - to support them, to encourage them and to make them feel loved and appreciated. It seems to be the opposite of JThomp's "love". His version of love seems a lot like disdain or flat out ignorance. So your god wants to show love by treating people that disagree with him badly. Got it.
I don't see him as a "lesser" individual. I think his beliefs are not only unreasonable but absurd, and he has nothing to back them up. He overcomes this obstacle by insulting others that choose not to believe in his version of god, the bible or christianity as a whole and just assumes that they don't know what they're talking about. He assumes we're all angry, broken people - when I know for a fact that I'm happier now than I ever was when I was shackled to the dogmas of christianity. I don't assume that he's less of a person. I just feel sorry for him that his only recourse is to try to demean others for his failures to proselytize and gain converts to his imaginary friend.
JM.... Just let it go. I mean come on, enough is enough. By the way I do have tremendous love for God and my fellow man. But, I have never met someone with this Huge of an ego that will carry something this far because we disagree.
do you fail to notice that you're carrying it every bit as far as I am? If it's so beneath you and I'm such an egomaniac, why respond at all? Have you noticed that this is an open, public forum, which means that people can say whatever they want whenever they want to as long as the follow the rules?
I don't take orders from you. Now you're assuming that I'm driven by ego - and not just sitting at home with my family laughing at you. But sure, you're behaving just like your god. Ridiculing others, making stupid assumptions and doing whatever possible to just give yourself a little pick me up. Very christian of you.
Bottom line - the more you try to force me to stop, the less likely I am to actually do it. Why? Because I don't have to obey you. I have no reason to take orders from you, and you are in no position of authority to try to make me. This whole thread is uproariously funny to me - even more so that you're taking it so personally and trying to force others to conform to what you want. Thanks for the extra humor today - it's been fun.
JM... You are very welcome. But, it saddens me that you have instilled these beliefs into your family if they find God amusing.
But - your god is funny. Even the bible tells you that when you go around making ridiculous claims - you will be ridiculed. Doesn't it?
I'm no whining at all. What are you doing in a forum about God anyway?
mark knowles, ......we get it, you think we're all silly....and by the way, God does not think it is ok for you to say things against Him and make fun of Him.....He is downright serious about His great Love for us all....and He doesn't want anyone to spend an eternity apart from Him.....and that is why He came down from heaven and was born of the Virgin Mary so that He could die on the Cross in our place....and He did....He, Jesus Christ our Lord, died on the Cross for our sins, removing them forever, washing us whiter than the snow, so that we could be with Him for all eternity.....But, you have to want to belong to Him, you have to choose to ask Him to come and live inside of you and take over, take control of everything, to carry your burdens and give you His perfect peace in place of them.....But, if you choose to reject Jesus Christ our Lord, He will let you do so, He does not force you to believe in Him....but He is sad when anyone rejects Him because He does not want anyone to perish(meaning spending eternity apart from Him....in hell.....it is certainly your choice.....Now it would be so much easier to say nothing to you, but I don't want the easy way, I want to show God's Love to you.....this is what God wants, for his saints (we who belong to Him, who Love Him and believe in Him).....He wants us to tell everyone about Him!!!....& that is what I am doing and that is what J is doing..... And, in the end, it is your choice, and your choice alone....no one will try to force you into believing.....we just tell you about Jesus for your sake, and then the Holy Spirit of God does the work.....He intervenes in the hearts and minds of those people who are open to knowing Him, and comes in and takes up residence in your heart, takes care of you, Loving you beyond any love you could ever possibly know.....and then you get to spend all eternity with God in your eternal life....He created us all as eternal beings, and it is our choice.....will we be with God for eternity or with the devil......this is your choice as I said, but for your sake, please do make the right one.....May Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior bless you, and open your heart and mind, so that you too may know His great Love and Peace, as J, myself and millions of others do!!!
we find all sorts of ridiculous claims amusing. When there is no reason to believe in something, we don't believe in it. We don't believe in mutually exclusive claims that contradict themselves. We think critically and question things - don't just decide that they "must" be true and base our lives around them.
I feel sorry for you if you haven't got the intellectual honesty to apply the criticism you display towards every other religion in the world onto your own. What stops you? You don't believe in Zeus or Apollo. You reject Allah. You find their claims about the world silly - but you assert yours and try to promote it as absolute truth for no better reason. Why don't you examine your own religion as critically as you examine all of the others?
JM... Enough of your banter. I really feel sorry for your children.
lol whatever you say oh ultimate dictator person who tries (and fails) to control the forums. Not having any authority whatsoever kind of sucks, doesn't it? You can't actually do anything about it. People can say whatever they want - even when it goes against your pet favorite belief.
I truly do feel sorry for you and all that you have influenced. I just hope some have the moral capacity to know the truth.
What on earth makes you think that I do not have the "moral capacity" to know truth? First of all, morality had nothing to do with truth. Secondly, are you claiming that your only morality Congress from your chosen religion? What do you base that on? why do you think christianity is moral at all? You don't need to believe in a god to be moral. In fact, you can be a lot more moral without it. Finally, your beliefs are just beliefs. That does not make them true. You'd like them to be - but you can't come any closer to proving it than any other god belief out there.
jmcfarland, if you only have negative and harsh things to say, why keep visiting this hub page....why not do yourself and the rest of us a big favor, and go away.
Christian to Christian, This is not cool.. There was no need to involve families in this conversation
Christian to Christian...... I only speak the truth. She said she thought her family was amused by God. That is totally out of line. There is nothing amusing about one's salvation.
She mentioned her family, But there are still some areas that should not be followed. Saying you feel sorry for someone's family in a specific area (especially one where ideals are discussed) kinda makes it more personal..
I tried to be the bigger person, But some people just will not allow it. She is one of them and she does this stuff constantly to all who believe. I will take up for my God regardless!!
Sometimes, being the bigger person involves just simply not responding after a certain point. So for this point, if she stops replying then that would make her the bigger person in this situation.
I did read the whole thread. And without taking sides here, you made some statements that can be interpreted as attacks. I even pointed one out by you stating you feel sorry for JM's children. Christian or not, if you had made that comment toward me, I would have some aggressive words for you too. I can see where you might have felt attacked by JM as well. All I was saying that if you want to demonstrate the actions of a "bigger person", the best way is to not respond to JM and vice versa. But that still doesn't make you the bigger person. Your conversation turned into attacks. As a Christian, it should be up to you to not attack another's views even when yours are being attacked.
I agree with you, but I'm curious to know what you felt that I said that could possibly be construed as a "personal' attack - and not a criticism of beliefs.
Calling someone a dictator (even sarcastically) could be viewed as an attack.
Also, for some people (especially a lot of Christians) a criticism of beliefs is considered a personal attack. the premise is like this : You call my beliefs ridiculous and moronic + these are my beliefs= you are calling me moronic (so to speak.. not meaning me personally)
I disagree with your second point. I understand that a lot of people can take criticism of beliefs personally, but in my experience, only those with a shaky foundation take a challenge as an attack. In the atheism community especially, challenging someone else's beliefs is one of the highest forms of respect possible. If I deem beliefs (like the christian god) to be particularly immoral or repugnant, as a human being I feel compelled to challenge them. If someone takes it personally, perhaps they should stay out of the forums where things like this happen on a regular basis - at least until they can develop a thicker skin (but I do get your point)
As to your first point, I did call him a dictator - but only because he was repeatedly trying to tell me to stop responding - when he doesn't have the authority to command me to do anything. I don't like being told what to do, especially by someone who has repeatedly insulted, demeaned and criticized me personally - not my beliefs, but me as an individual. I have no respect for that kind of behavior, and since no respect was given to me, I feel little need to return any.
With my second point, I didn't state that I believed or agreed with it. Simply that it is how others would take it. I try to keep as thick of a skin as possible when I reply to some posts..
To the other post, I saw the conversation, that's why I even told him that one of his comments wasn't cool, even for me.
This post is ludicrous. You tried to be the bigger person? By continually using ad hominem attacks, assumptions and ridicule and then essentially telling me to shut up and go away - all this after telling me that we're not enemies, and you continue to engage me while simultaneously telling me that I'm silly for responding? That makes YOU the bigger person? We have very different ideas of what constitutes good behavior. When I point out bad behavior that directly contradicts your own beliefs, you can't even acknowledge that you acted badly. You just point the finger at me and ignore everything I said. But the atheist is egotistical, right?
The creator of all things can be seen everyday by humans who open their eyes correctly.
When speaking of the creator with someone who does not yet see, I always ask if they can tell me which came first - the chicken or the egg.
Naturally they seem confused by this, but then I ask them to describe how the egg produced itself.
Naturally they become even more confused.
Then I ask if it really makes any difference which came first.
Most people who do not believe in the existence of a creator then seem more confused.
I then state that it does not matter, because the creator chose which came first.
I have yet to find any scientist who can answer any of these questions with a solid answer.
But, I know there was a creator, because I know that he created one of them first because they exist.
Not sure whether to hammer this thread as the last one. What say you...?
You could try....but it's been almost two hours since anyone but us has been here.
May God bless all - regardless of your personal status or opinion.
I find it hard to believe that most Americans believe in God. Most of them have no relationship with Him or spend any amount of time out of their precious day to observe Him. That's why the world is going to hell in a handbasket. And if so many Americans belive in God, why are we taking His name out of schools and why are we not teaching our children, in school or at home, about God and Jesus and the bible? I think if we spent more time obeying God's wishes and instilling these values into our children, the world would be a better place. Of course that doesn't mean God is the answer to all of our worlds problems, but it would solve many of them by default. People wouldn't be so selfish and hateful, therefore most of us would be happier and life would/could be easier.
Just my opinion.
MissJamieD, I think your perspective, and the OP's observation are both valid. The vast majority of Americans do believe in God, but only in the most general way. That simply means they believe someone created this complicated existence of ours. It does not mean they know who He is, love, trust, respect or serve Him. That has been on the decline for a long time. They just can't wrap their head around the concept that a universe whose smallest and simplest component is infinitely more complicated than man's grandest achievement, happened by chance out of nothing, with no Creator. They may not want to discuss the idea, explore it, or have their lives inconvenienced by it, but when asked if they believe in it, they say yes just in case.
I totally agree, most people say they believe just to save face.
And many belittle the beliefs and practices of others to create face. Which do you consider falls more in line with the definition of 'Christian'?
IMHO, you have to practice, pray, observe God to be a Christian. You must spread the word, not because He wants you to, but because you believe it so much in your heart that you want to share this gift with everyone you meet, in hopes that the world may become a better place to live someday. I always have a hope that people will realize that evil is taking over and someday begin their own journey back to our creator.
Until then, you cannot call yourlself Christian in my book. If you're too afraid to talk about it, you can't be Christian, if you know absolutely nothing about the bible, study it. If you don't pray for humanity and selflessness, you shouldn't call yourself Christian. If you title yourself Christian but take none of these actions, you shouldn't call yourself Christian. The world is so full of fakes these days, but you can tell the real Christians, you can see it in their eyes and you can see it in their actions and body language.
That's my opinion. I believe in God, I pray, I spread the word even if people don't like it, I don't care. I'm a happier person than many, I can deal with horrible problems in my life and still look them positively because every day is a lesson learned whether good or bad. Use it and share it.
Let me see if I understand you. In your book someone has to emulate your behavior to be labeled a Christian? Does anyone, but you, have access to your book? Does your book carry any weight with anyone other than you? Can you site any reason why anyone should consider your book as authoritative? Should your book override their book? How do you feel when another person uses their book to belittle your book?
Other people's opinions have no bearing over mine. That's why I said In My Humble Opinion....if you know what the word opinion means, then you shouldn't even be asking me this question. I have total respect for anyone who believes writings that have been proven over and over again from across the world, that intertwine, written by people from all walks of life in different stages of life, for thousands of years. I realize there are other "books" out there, and you have every right to believe the one you want. I appreciate your reply and I understand your question but my answer is that your opinion has nothing to do with mine. You do your thing, I'll do mine. As long as your "book" projects positivity, love, compassoin, selflessness, and assisting others to see the graciousness of life itself, I have no problem with it whatsoever. And I didn't come here to start an argument with anyone
NOBODY on this planet really knows the truth 100% because none of us were here when the earth and the humans were formed, that's why there's something called Faith. You can have faith in whatever you want. Whatever gets you through the day in a positive light and you're doing good for yourself, your loved ones, and humanity, you can have faith in anything you'd like. That's not for me or anyone else to judge. Like I said, I share my opinion because I'm not ashamed of it.
I wasn't advocating that you read another book. Your words were that, in your book, they couldn't call themselves Christian if they didn't agree with your way of doing things. I'm curious what book gives you the authority to deny people use of a name?
From what I understand, most people in America believe in the existence of God. I remember watching a video some time ago where the questions was asked to numerous individuals on the street. The percentage that said they believed in God was around 80%.
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