"On Earth as it is in Heaven" from the Lord's prayer, means what?

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77
Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago
Our Father, who art on the metaphysical realm
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy Kingdom come (which exists in the metaphysical realm)
Thy will (?) be done...
"On the concrete realm as it is on the metaphysical realm."

What could this interpretation of the Lord's prayer mean?
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1. 77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Could it mean that concrete reality
  is somehow connected to
  metaphysical reality?
  How?
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2. 77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Could it be that concrete reality is evidence of metaphysical reality?
  (and actually proves metaphysical reality?)
  Could it be that science is actually the study of metaphysics?
  Could it be that our Creator is the Ultimate Scientist? (He does seem to be experimenting.)
  And the Ultimate Imagineer? (... and very creative!)
  Could it be that we see concrete evidence of that Creator in everything that exists?
  Could it be that our very beings are actual evidence of Our Creator?
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3. 95
  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  It means that the speaker is asking an ET from another universe to force its desires on the inhabitants of earth? And maybe on the very rocks themselves?
  
  (I would have used "metaphysical realm" rather than "universe" but am unable to find a referent or definition for the term. Without knowing what it means it is not reasonable to use the term "metaphysical realm".)
  
  (Didn't use "concrete realm" either, because I don't think the intent is to limit actions to only the concrete and steel jungles we call "cities" but rather to wherever men are found. Including, for that matter, the moon as necessary and certainly the depths of the ocean, lakes and rivers whether said men are wearing concrete galoshes or not).
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  ETs are too concrete to force their desires on earthlings or rocks, silly.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hah! You just try dropping a concrete gargoyle from 50,000 feet up and SEE how much force they they can exert. I certainly wouldn't want to be under it as an earthling and wouldn't put my pet rock there, either.
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You have a pet rock? (I guess you have named him Concrete or Asphalt) I get that... A perfectly non-demanding and un-controlling type of pet.
  (Excuse me, my dogs are demanding some chicken...
  But, only because I have spoiled them and that is what they expect.)
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  It's much, much better than my old pet Christian. Never demands I provide a cross in the living room and never hassles me about the pentagram on the kitchen floor.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  And nor should your pet rock demand or hassle you if he could, which he can't...
  as far as Christian...
  why didn't you stop him?
  You could have told him that demanding and hassling will never help him get back to the metaphysical realm of existence... the realm of noble ideas and perfect love and beauty, and harmony and light and beautiful unusual colors...
  Huh?
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Oh..." because there is no proof. "
  sigh.
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  95
  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Why didn't I stop the Christian from his abusive behavior?
  
  *sigh* I loved him. I cared for him. I wanted him to be happy in his life, whether he cared for me or my life or not. It's a mark of we Pagans, just as (I suppose) his actions are a mark of the Christians. Their God has never seemed to care much how He or they treat other people outside their little group...one has only to witness that little prayer about their God forcing his will on everyone to recognize that.
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Very funny. His Will is Good.
  Good will and Love. (The 100% love of a father or mother. )
  And if you need proof,
  look within.
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  95
  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, look within. Then look without, at the results of his love. Compare the two.
  
  Does what is within you match what you see without? The forcing of His will on others? The past histories of bloodshed, fear and hatred? No?
  
  Then either the Christian religion or you yourself is wrong. God is not within one or the other even though both claim He is. Which one? The gentle individuals professing and showing love or the vast organization manipulating the voting booths and funding the attempts at control of others?
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Now we are discussing the The essence of God vs. The essence of ego and the propensity for illusion in Man. However, the essence of God is reality.
  Observe nature (part of God's reality). Everything is orderly and has a purpose for the survival of all. Examples: Bees propagate plants through their unconscious service of pollinating them, (as they happily gather their goods for the queen and the production of honey.) Colors in flowers exist to attract Bees. Consider the various ways seeds, (some found in yummy fruits which squirrels, birds bears, monkeys, etc. love to eat,) are designed, in order to become imbedded in the ground. Flies buzzing around dead animals signaling vultures and scavenger-types to come and get it. Vultures cleaning out through devouring dead flesh with glee... because they were designed to process and thrive on carrion. and there is an interconnection to all of nature. Any biologists out there? These are just off the top of my head.
  If only we could network as nature does. Alas, we are too busy crafting our own illusive realities as you point out.
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  95
  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Almost totally off base (almost).
  
  Nature is the most disorderly thing imaginable. Violence and death everywhere you look, sometimes by intent but more often by total accident. Did the elephant mean to destroy the ant nest when he stepped there? Did earth mean to take out the coastline of Japan? No design, no designer, just happenstance.
  
  If that is your view of evolution it is a much glorified and romanticized one. The vulture wasn't designed by god to eat carrion; it learned to do so as the niche was available. It learned by countless generations of trial and error (and death of the weak) to change it's physical structure to make it more efficient that it's competitors.
  
  There is an interconnection between life (and the dead rocks and dirt) because life exists, not because something designed it that way. All niches will be filled, without need for a designer that made a billion year old stream of mistakes, mistakes resulting in extinction after extinction.
  
  To go from the known causes and effects of simple evolution to an incompetent designer in the sky is not logical. It may be (and certainly IS) easier than trying to understand each characteristic of each living thing and just how it fits, but it is not logical.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing is metaphysical. Or paranormal. Or supernatural.
  
  Everything is natural and how it's supposed to be.
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5. 88
  Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  It means you're overthinking a simple ancient belief system in which people actually believed the Earth's sky was as far as the universe went.
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Lets replace spiritual with metaphysical and material with concrete.
  It seems there is a connection of the spiritual to everything existing on the earth, and as Zelkiiro and janesix have have pointed out, to everything existing in the universe, as well.
  It is logical to assume that in the light of this connection, evolution was by not by chance. I think it was directed by/from the realm of thought and energy,
  somehow...
  by some amazing, genius force,
  which most people refer to as God.
  
  Side note, opinion: For them the existence of God is a given.
  Because it makes sense.
  Not because they love Dogma and evil.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Can you present that logic (that evolution was directed by a god) to us? Preferably in syllogism form?
  
  Or is it not logic at all, but rather belief?
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Can you provide an example of there being no intelligent design behind evolution in syllogism form?
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Found it.
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Some people are so stubborn.
  Isn't it true?
  I ban myself for what I erased. See you in a week.
  This will take discipline but, I am motivated by that last post of wilderness'.
  Au revoir mes amies.
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6. 45
  youcanwinposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Heaven is a perfect place. Holy, flawless and complete place. Everything happening there according to the will of God. Nothing happens outside the will of God.
  
  Earth is an imperfect place where will of individuals are being done. That is why here rape, murder and other evils are present. This imperfect world is vulnerable to natural calamities like earthquake, tsunami, thunderstorms etc.
  
  Lord teaching us to pray, "Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I think it is a matter of perspective. That sounds the most disgusting, vile, imperfect place to me. Thank goodness it doesn't actually exist.
  
  When the Lord commands murder - is that evil?
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  Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Don't take this the wrong way, but you accused me of negativity for voicing an opposing view a few days ago. So, would you classify your post here as negative? If not, then why not? If so, then why would you think negativity is allowed in this case and not another?
  
  Simply attempting to find clarification.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  No I didn't. Please stop lying about me. Thanks.
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  Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Oh. I thought you were Mark Knowles. I must have you confused with the other Mark Knowles. You guys should have different avatars to avoid confusion.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You certainly seem confused.
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  Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Only to someone who conveniently forgets what he posts.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Feel free to copy and paste what I said.
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  Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Not that it matters, but in your monkey thread you said to me Odd that you always take the negative view no matter who or what is being discussed. .
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. You do always take the negative view. That is not what you said I said. You don't always take an opposing view - just a negative one. No matter the discussion. Trolls often do that. In fact - thinking about it - I don't think I have ever seen you express an actual opinion of your own. Just attack everyone else's opinion.
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  Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  First. That was my question. You offered what you describe as a negative view and I was simply curious why it is acceptable for you to always be what you describe as negative, but you appear offended when what you see as negative toward you happens. It is a simple question.
  
  Second. I have, quite often, shared my opinion. You, obviously, only read the posts I make that give you reason to complain. You are welcome to read all of my posts, to verify the veracity of this. Your choice. Although, I'm sure my piddly offerings would quickly bore you.
  
  And what's with all of the winking? Do you have a twitch in your eye?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Not offended at all. Just pointing out the facts. Sorry if that bothers you. Sorry you don't understand either. But - this exchange is rather typical of your exchanges. Maybe you should start a new thread instead of hijacking this one?
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  Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Well, had you simply answered the question the exchange might have been completed in short order. Typical. No answers by you, just accusations. I should have known you would stay true to form.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I did answer the question, but go ahead and keep hijacking this thread.
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  youcanwinposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I would like to share a paragraph from the book of " Visions of Heaven and Hell" by John Bunyan:
  
  “Ah, miserable wretch! Undone forever, forever! Oh, this killing word, 'forever!' Will not a million years be long enough to bear that pain, which if I could avoid it, I would not endure for even one moment for the sake of being offered one million worlds? No, no my misery never will have an end; after millions of years it will still be for ever. Oh, what a helpless and hopeless condition I am in! It is this 'forever' that is the hell of hell! O cursed wretch! Cursed to all eternity! How willfully have I undone myself! Oh, what stupendous folly am I guilty of, to choose sin’s short and momentary pleasure at the dear price of everlasting pain! How often I was told it would be so! How often I was encouraged to leave those paths of sin that brought me to the chambers of eternal death! But I, like a dumb animal, would not listen to those pleadings. Now it is too late to change it, for my eternal state is fixed for ever. Why was I made a person, that I would choose this fate? Why was I made with an immortal soul, and yet should take so little care of it? Oh how my own neglect stings me to death, and yet I know I cannot die! I live a dying life, worse than ten thousand deaths; and yet I once could have changed all this, but did not! Oh, that is the gnawing worm that never dies! I might once have been happy, salvation was offered to me and I refused it. Had salvation been offered to me only once, it would have been an unforgivable folly to refuse it. But salvation was offered me a thousand times, and yet (wretch that I was) I still as often refused it. O cursed sin, that with deluding pleasures leads mankind to eternal ruin! God often called, but I as often refused; He stretched His hand out, but I would not mind it. How often have I ignored His counsel! How often have I refused His reproof! But now the scene is changed, the case is altered. Now He laughs at my calamity, and mocks at the destruction which is come upon me. He would have helped me once, but I would not accept His help. Therefore those eternal miseries I am condemned to undergo are but the just reward of my own doing.”
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  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry sweetie, I am still not frightened enough. But I am glad you are comfortable worshiping a god that offers eternal damnation for using my brain. Why is that?
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  Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I'm assuming you think Mr. Bunyan actually had a vision of hell then as opposed to sitting at his desk dreaming up imaginations and passing them off as real.
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7. 84
  Peggasuseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I think this part of the prayer is saying that people should follow the positive path, just as it is followed in heaven. You really have to read the whole sentence before you can come to an understanding.
  
  "...thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven..."
  
  I don't think this is saying that what God wants will be done. I think it means that God's will, consisting of pure love, is how we're supposed to live...how we're supposed to feel about each other. It alludes to the idea that this is the way people in Heaven act...with pure love...and we should act the same way, here on Earth.
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  Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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77
Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago
Metaphysical reality exists beyond the physical.
Concrete reality manifests on the earth plane.
I would say yes, it's all natural. How could it be otherwise?

And that's exactly my hypothesis.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes of course. but what is your point?
  
  What is your theory?
  
  Are we in a school we can't leave until we learn to behave?
  
  A prison?
  
  Are there parellel universes?
  
  Do we create our own reality?
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I think the metaphysical world has to do with the ideas of things.
  The invisible blueprints of things.
  
  I think we come here to experience our own power and our own freedom of action and creativity, and ultimately joy.
  
  There is a way out.
  
  Don't know.
  
  We create our own realities on top of the main reality which already manifests.
  (For some reason Jesus said, "Know ye not that ye are gods?")
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think that we are gods?
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I think what he said is quite true. We are little gods. But, we are certainly not god-like
  yet.
  
  If we are manifesting the essence of God, we should be able to reverse the outward flow of energy or attention which is being pulled or pushed by ourselves into the concrete world and go back into the metaphysical world where God's invisible energy, ideas and blueprints are.
  (Is this what Jesus meant when he said,
  "The harvest is abundant, but the laborers are few?"
  I have a feeling, Yes.)
  
  After all, thoughts are invisible!
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Like when you cut up a hologram, the peices are the same, only smaller?
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  ...never seen it!
  have you?
  I would accept that as a good analogy. Would you?
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't actually seen it done, but it's what I hear.
  
  I think it's a good analogy.
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I wonder what the scientific principle is behind it? Must have to do with energy... which in my opinion is from the metaphysical realm. Don't ask me how.
  Jesus said, "If thine eye is single your whole body will be (perceived to be) full of light.") Christians do not take this phrase literally.
  Why not?
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know.
  
  But have you ever seen those pictures of a human brain neuron side by side whith a computer generated image of the spread of the universe? They look remakably similar.
  
  Fractals:)
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  77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  No, I would love to and I believe it.
  
  Fractals are mathematical patterns. I have seen pictures of those. They are a concrete example of a mathematical principle designed or existing in the metaphysical world.
  I would say.
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  kessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  What was the difference between Jesus and us, since in every way he was just a man and a simple one at that?
  
  The Fact that he knew himself to be God and that fact he declare to others say You are God.
  
  So then, did he then imply that there was one type of God as oppose to another type of god?
  
  Absolutely not, In fact he always emphasize that God is one, As in I am in HIM and He is in Me.
  and as an extension, You are in Him and He is in You.
  And also in,
  My Father and I are one,
  My Father ALWAYS hears and answers my prays.
  
  What do you think is the purpose of his commandment "love your neighbors as yourselves ?
  Do you think so that you can live peaceably while you await death?
  
  Absolutely NOT! It is so that You can come to the realisation that We are all ONE As human and as a singular GOD, no separation no distinction as one between the other.
  
  We are the Many who are ONE, You become one only by and of the realisation of the Father and of the Son becoming in You. Then you no longer see many, as in have double vision, but you have achieved the singleness of eyes.
  
  And the single eye see ALL, for All is ONE.
  
  It is not as if we are gods today and we become another god tomorrow, which is a little greater than the today and increasing until you become God.
  
  At every present moment you are IT, the grestest that you can every be.
  And if this is not the place from which you start, you would forever be marking time by dividing the Word of Christ, which is this word I have written unto you.
  
  You cannot ignore it and still expect to have Wholeness within yourself.
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janesixposted 10 years ago
http://gl.higherbalance.com/cosmic-thread/
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1. 77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  The universe is a concrete reality with metaphysical roots. (?)
  I appreciate your sharing of this site and your input, janesix! (I'm glad you have flown back. But, stop scaring everyone in that other forum!)
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60
janesixposted 10 years ago
As above, so below.

As inside, so without? Maybe?
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1. 77
  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  How could it be otherwise? Why else is food so good for us?
  ( I mean real food... not some of the so called "foods" you find in the supermarkets. Food-based products is all they are. But I digress.)
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"On Earth as it is in Heaven" from the Lord's prayer, means what?

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"On Earth as it is in Heaven" from the Lord's prayer, means what?

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