What Is Happiness to an Atheist?

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   For an atheist, what is his/her state of happiness based on?
   Do atheists have more free will? Do they have more love in their hearts? Do they have more hope in their ability to survive? Are they more sociable and charitable?  What is the advantage of not believing in God... or IS there an advantage?
   Let us in on your secrets, Atheists!

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      PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Happiness is a chemical reaction. Freewill is mostly an illusion. The heart is a muscle in a persons chest and is not capable of emotion. Atheists don't understand metaphors. The secret to life is survival of the fittest as long as its politically correct and tolerant.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         - oh.

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      EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If believing in God is the only thing that brings someone happiness who can't understand what brings happiness to others is obviously not a happy person.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I am not happy reading run-on sentences. I have no idea what your point is. I'll try to decode with commas: If believing in God is the only thing that brings someone happiness, who can't understand what brings happiness to others, is obviously not a happy person. I guess you are referring to me.
         Got cha.

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         mbuggiehposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I totally agree. If gods are the source of one's happiness, then one needs to rethink one's life.

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      getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That depends on the individual atheist.
      
      
      
      If you mean that they have freed their minds of the fear and nonsense of religion, then YES.
      
      
      
      That depends on the individual atheist.
      
      
      
      That depends on the individual atheist.
      
      
      
      That depends on the individual atheist.
      
      
      
      Putting away childhood nonsense, and relinquishing the fear of authority, and having the courage to think for themselves, using their own critical thinking skills...I would say that was an advantage.   
      
      Plus we get to keep that 10% of our gross income that most believers fork over, naively thinking that they are donating to The Creator of the Universe....

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         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         HA, Getitrite, you're right everytime- they think they are tithing to the Universal Force who is beyond all materiality.  In fact, churchgoers are making their church enormously wealthy.  Look at how the preachers live while many churchgoers are near impoverishment for donating 10% which could be better used for real charitable donations to the homeless and destitute.    Ministers, preachers, and other church authorities use the methodology of tithing to enrich themselves; however, many churchgoers are too naive to realize this.  How, how, how sad indeed.
         
         

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            getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Or they could invest that 10% and actually get a REAL return on their money, instead of throwing their money in the toilet....with this silly scam of brazen false hope.  SMH
            
               
            
            It just goes to show how weak minded most human beings are, when it comes to indoctrination.....thinking that they need religious stupidity to be happy.  How absurd.
            
            
            

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               ...tithing helps the person who tithes.  They have the freedom not to tithe. they do it of their own free will in support of their CHOSEN church. 
               
               I really truly hope you haters are having a blast.
               You don't sound happy to me.
               I wonder why.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  And you think you sound happy? Calling anyone who does not swallow your drivel a "hater"?

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     They seem to be haters, thats all. And I call you a hater too using the term drivel. What, I cannot call a red kettle red?
                     Actually, I am starting to suspect that anger and outrage is part of what makes atheists happy.

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I already offered you a deal. Apparently you like to generate hate. Yay you!

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                  getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  When I was a Christian, I was told that I would get back what I gave to God tenfold.  All I got was poorer.  But Joyce Meyer and Creflo Dollar can own mansions, condos and private jets.  Tithing sure does work in mysterious ways.
                   
                  
                  Yeah, but the weak minded among us think that God will punish them for not tithing, so the money will keep rolling in from deluded fearful followers. 
                  
                  
                  
                  Of course we don't sound happy to you....since you believe that happiness is derived from believing in what amounts to a whimsical childish superstition, and asking advice from an imaginary magic man in the sky.

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                  1. 81

                     Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Warning true feelings being expressed. Please avoid reading what I have keyboarded in quotations: After all, I keyboard for my own therapeutic reasons, as I have admitted elsewhere in this Forum.
                     
                     (I feel sorry for you. I really do. It is my choice to respond to you in this way and reveal my true feelings. Please do not read this if you do not want to receive my true sympathy.)

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                        getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        If you have true sympathy, why is it that you want me to abdicate my mind, and sadly become another psychotic person, believing that I can talk to imaginary characters, created in books written thousands of years ago?   I am of sound mind, and in fairly decent health.  So, yes, this is only therapeutic for YOU, and only patronizing or condescending to me.  You should direct your sympathy towards those wretched souls who suffer from the rigid grip of psychotic delusion, as it is very sad indeed.

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                           PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           atheists like to hang out on religion forums their whole lives putting people down then playing victim.

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                              psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Log in thine own eye?

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                                 PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 No TEARS  lol and PITY

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                              getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              In case you didn't notice, this forum was directed at atheist.  Or did I misread the OP?

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                                 PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 So you are saying you dont hang out in religion forums 24/7 because Lo an behold stop the presses here is a thread that actually asks for your input?

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                  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  "Tithing helps the person who tithes."
                  
                  
                  Do I hear an AMEN, the giver will be blessed.  C'mon now, GIVE,  YOU WILL BE BLESSED in kind. Remember, give GENEROUSLY!
                  
                  What?! In your dreams, buddy.  I'm not going to make YOU rich. What a scam!  I was not born under the bush! Scram!
                  
                  If you don't give...........well..........you see............
                  
                  
                  IT'S YOUR SOUL...................THAT WILL BE........LACKING!  C'MON, GIVE!
                  
                  You DON'T scare me, man.  I can see through this tithe scam!  Tithe..........tithe my...............Well, here's a person who regularly tithes ........
                  
                  While religious authorities are wallowing in wealth and luxury........hmm........SMART!
                  
                  

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                     getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     It's so easy for the charlatan to bend fearful people to his will.

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                        gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Sure IS! So sad that there are people so susceptible to this chicanery!

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               gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               There's ONE born E-V-E-R-Y minute!   Religious authorities just LUV the masses- it's the masses that make them S-O-O-O RICH!
               
               Thank you all, my congregants.  You do not know WHAT you are doing to me.  I AM ......I AM .......IAM wealthy thanks to YOU.......YOU who slave every day to fill my coffers............I AM LIVING LARGE......oh THANK YOU!  What would I DO without YOU! THAAAAANK YOU!

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      mbuggiehposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Happiness is knowing that every day one works to do the right thing; to do good works; to be kind and caring; to love and be loved.
      
      There is no happiness for the "faithful" or happiness for the "unfaithful".
      
      Happiness is a human emotion that evolved over time because it sustained survival. Happiness is associated with hope, with camaraderie, with community, with family. And none of this is a function of religion or faith or gods.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         - praying to God, trusting in His help, knowing there is an ever faithful Friend one can count on when all others disappoint. These actions, thoughts and prayers provide happiness in REAL ways.
         If one can't find a worthwhile church, one can simply meditate.
         It seems people throw God out of their lives just because they don't like religion or the Bible. I, myself, believe in God as Father and the essence of God manifesting in all of Life/ Nature.  Why not acknowledge that some people thrive on the belief of God...
         and just accept it?
         No one can force their beliefs on anyone else. Not even God Himself. Who could if He wanted to.
         But He doesn't, obviously.

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            PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            atheists are scientists

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               PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               atheists like to hang out in religion forums and say meme a lot.

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                  bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Lol.  I have often wondered if the man who coined it, chose it because it is an acronym for "my ego means everything".

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                     PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     atheists are scientists that write books about religion. They often have pale complexions because they have an aversion to the light. If there were no atheists, machines would break down and we would have to watch TV by candlelight because we would have no electricity.

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                     Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, I'm sure the French guy who coined the word "meme" several hundreds of years ago knew perfectly well that it formed an acronym in a then-non-existent form of a language he most likely didn't speak.
                     
                     

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                        bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I am afraid the face palm is for you.  Your French guy was a Brit, and the 1970s weren't that long ago.  Dawkins proudly coined it, (as an english word, I might add), in one of his books.  Perhaps atheist's penchant for utilizing this word is born of reverence for that high priest of atheism, (just a thought).   My acronym fits perfectly.

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                           PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Atheists are scientists AND historians, mon ami.

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               Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               All of them?

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                  PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  at least 105 %

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                     Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     
                     I'd have thought the number would be higher.

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                        PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        You thought that probably because why your beliefs cause so much conflicts in the world.

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                           psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           It's called a joke.

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                              PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Jokes are just chemical reactions to stimuli.

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                           Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Most definitely.  Although, I'd have thought lots of atheists were lawyers, what with the great affinity for logic and reason. 
                           
                           

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                              PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Deleted
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                                 Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I am practicing standing my ground. It is actually proving to be therapeutic!  (However, I am concerned about the potential of becoming addicted to the rapid fire stimulus of connecting brain to keyboard to reaction to response...
                                 I'll stop now.)

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                                    mbuggiehposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    I hear you about practicing standing our ground, and yes indeed, it can be very therapeutic.

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      PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Atheists are electrochemical/biological machines. Happiness and emotions are biological reactions or processes of neurotransmitters, in the prefrontal cortex.
      
      Atheists don't have love, passion, compassion, or relationships with friends, family or loved ones.
      
      Atheists have evolution based reciprocality and nothing more.
      
      Atheists are electrochemical/biological machines that spend their lives in religion forums.

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         Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yep, that's pretty much exactly what emotions like happiness boil down to. Just because you live in denial of how the brain works doesn't make it any less true.
         
         
         I'm sure your god is pleased with the fact that you have to lie in order to feel like you're right.
         
         
         "My neuro-chemical processes are better than yours! Neener neener neener!"
         
         
         

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      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Reality.
      
      Free will is a necessary illusion. Some of us are just aware of the illusion.
      
      No, we love with our brains just like everyone else.
      
      No, but we do own everything, good and bad, no thanking God or blaming the devil here.
      
      No, we are not trying to buy our way into heaven. We give when we feel it's necessary.
      For survival? None, but while we are here it's nice to know we are in control of our own mind and understand reality to the best of our ability. Believing in a God and understanding that you are in charge is okay, but what happens when one starts to think that there is a cosmic battle going on between God and Satan and Satan is winning?

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      PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      atheists find happiness living out their entire lives in religion forums talking about God.

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         Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Listen. Knock knock knok. I wonder who's at my door. Do you think it's those pesky atheists again?

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         getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Actually we spend time here talking about disturbing delusional behavior.....
         There is no such thing as God.  But believers are welcomed to talk about this imaginary entity all they want.  It's just another delusion that which a deluded mind can suffer.
         
         Of course atheist are going to be honest with you, and tell you that this is absurd, just as with any other illogical and unprovable assertion.

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         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         whereas you get it from making the same posted repeatedly.

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            gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!
            

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               PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               +

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                  bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Now your just being meme.

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                     PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     
                     I think we called memes - fads -  back in my day. Making up a word, that already more or less exists, seems kind of weak.

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                        bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I think he meant it as a fad that stuck.  Fad implies temporary, and he wants memes to be permanent, as a sort of societal evolution, (of course).

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      We're all human beings, atheists are not from another planet.
      
      The advantage of not believing in God is not creating ridiculous threads like this one.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   Happiness is a fundamental emotion.  It is pretty much the same for everyone.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      which is.....

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         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The thing about being fundamental is that is just is what it is. 
         
         People feel happy about the things that make them feel happy.

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            - yes, it is an individual matter.  I guess not all atheists feel a certain way just because they are atheists. Not all theists feel a certain way just because they are theists.
            
            So, never mind.

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         mbuggiehposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I think happiness is something we all know when we feel it.
         
         Happiness needs no calculations; no explanations.

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   Zelkiiroposted 11 years ago

   It's certainly not shouting at people to repent or burn, that much is certain.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      - so they are free from taking seriously the emotional outbursts of others,
      free of the requirements to repent for anything...
      free of the imaginations of fiery punishments.
      That is a good start. These do not make anyone happy.

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         Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         God certainly isn't free from being required to repent. And considering the amount of evil he creates (Isaiah 45:7), he's probably spending every waking moment repenting.
         
         "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." - Exodus 32:14
         
         "And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite." - 2 Samuel 24:16
         
         "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." - Jonah 3:10

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Uh... why are we suddenly discussing an imaginary being, HERE?     
            wow.   
            but, thanks for the citation efforts!
            (...actually you are late to the party, Zelkiiro.  Today we have decided that the Bible is null and void. PS congrats on your high score!)

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4. 81

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   ...happiness is based on health, the ability to solve problems, the ability to be proactive in avoiding problems, and having enough food to eat, a good partner, and having a way to earn enough money.  I just can't believe that we don't need God to be happy! But, if you say so.....

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      A Christian worth his salt has doubts. Any thinking Christian has some atheist in them. If we look at this back and forth we see some answers to your question. If a Christian gets all down on themselves when they have doubts that is sad and wrong. So most do not. How do they remain happy with doubts?

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         ...or worries or concerns? Can you imagine, Eric? Atheists have no need to pray! I guess they just figure out how to solve all their problems. How I wonder?  Sometimes I end up asking God to solve a problem for me... especially someone else's problem when I can't help them directly. At least I feel a sense of relief putting it into God's hands.  Perhaps Atheists realize that this is a false sense of relief... and make a greater effort to help the person? or just trust that the person will figure out his own problems?

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            mbuggiehposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps meditating on one's problems; perhaps looking inward for solutions is a better approach than relying on an unknown and unknowable mythic figure for guidance.
            
            I do not pray. I reason. I think through the problems and come to reasoned and rational solutions.

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5. 81

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   Happiness is a chemical reaction. 
   Endorphins? Then how do they keep their endorphins revved up?
   -the same way theists do?
   which brings us to the question:  What is happiness to a Theist?
   Is there a difference?

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   1. 81

      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hmmmm... let me think about that question, kathryn l hill, since everyone else seems to be getting their beauty sleep this fine Sunday evening...
      I would say that a theist 's happiness is based on his/her hope of his/her own goodness. He values himself because he knows what is pleasing to God and tries to live up to that ideal of Goodness. An atheist does not know what Goodness is to God, but rather what is good for himself/herself and others.
      (Well, what about that atheist neighbor of yours who swears like a drunken sailor while taking care of her granddaughter?  If she were a more God'faring person she would not swear up that storm while taking care of her granddaughter who lives under the same roof. That little girl is going to have a really bad mouth on her by the time she is two!)
      
      Q. Is there a difference between what is good for an atheist and what is good for a theist?

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         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Oh - you mean that neighbor? 
         
         She is the Sunday School teacher in the Christian church just down the road.  At least she takes care of her granddaughter to some degree - the girl's mother won't, not at all.  She's the choir leader in the same church.
         
         Yeah, sometimes there is a difference in what is good, I guess.
         
         Or maybe not.  That man in the corner pew, the quiet one.  I know him; he'd give you the shirt off his back or his last loaf of bread.  Nobody in the church knows his name, though - guess 'cause he don't beat his chest much.

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            - why were  y o u  lurking about in that church?

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               wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Shh! There's this real pretty girl, ya know, and...anyway it was only the once.  I prolly won't go back - they didn't seem my kind of folk.  Too snooty for me.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The pretty girl would be the worst of them all.. but you forgot about that...

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                     wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You're probably right at that.  Girls are evil, you know, (because of Eve) and the pretty ones are the worst.

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                        Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I hope you don't really think so, wilderness. 
                        
                        But, that is what I always think when I read what you have to say.
                        
                        BTW
                        All Eve did was offer Adam an apple which in those days meant, let's have sex!  How was it SHE was so evil?

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                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           No - a serious comment (albeit requiring between the lines, or "bible reading") followed by some fun in response to what I took as a joking comment from you.
                           
                           But Eve?  She picked it.  She ate first.  Then, using sex as a lure, enticed poor Adam to eat as well.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs9WEExFT0g
                           
                           Listen to Bill - he knows how it was back then!

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   - why is it, belief in God inspired so may great artists and musicians in the history of mankind? Okay, get rid of religious inspired art and music. We have no need for Christmas, Easter or church on Sunday. Nothing spiritual or magical about marriage. About nature. We are in awe of evolution... which happened by survival of the fittest. so get rid of awe. everything just somehow got here. nothing is behind the heavens and the order of our little perfect solar system. Did I mention getting rid of any feelings of awe and wonder?
   Yes.
   ...so how come I am not happy yet?

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   secularist10posted 11 years ago

   I don't know where you get the idea that atheists don't have awe for nature. Scientists are probably the most awe-struck people around, and they are overwhelmingly atheist or agnostic.
   
   The happiest nations (according to surveys of self-reported happiness) tend to be those with the most income, health, social stability and responsive governments. These nations also tend to be the most secular and least religious. Why? There are a number of reasons for this. I have written hubs about the connection and relationship between human well being and secularism/ atheism.
   
   In short, there are 4 potential relationships:
   
   1. Religion can cause problems: religious beliefs and doctrines can cause people to commit crime (sexist beliefs about gender can give rise to domestic violence; homophobia can give rise to anti-homosexual violence; exclusionary beliefs can cause followers to attack or kill nonbelievers (Christians vs Muslims, Muslims vs Hindus, etc)); religion can condition people to accept simple explanations from leaders without adequate critical thinking; and so on
   
   2. Problems can cause religion: When people encounter difficulty in life (health problems, crime, bad luck) they often turn to a higher power to explain it and find comfort. The poor and low-educated tend to be more religious than the wealthy and those with more education.
   
   3. Secularism can cause good things: focusing on this life and this world helps people solve problems in this life and this world--from material prosperity to political freedom to physical health to simple happiness.
   
   4. Good things can cause secularism: As people become wealthier, better off and more educated, they often leave religion behind because they don't need ancient stories to explain the world anymore; they also find meaning and purpose outside of religion.
   
   Now of course religion can and does have a positive impact in some people's lives. But in general, the relationship seems to be in the other direction.
   
   But the key relationship is not with secularism/ atheism per se. It's with the more fundamental forces of skepticism, critical thinking and open-mindedness. These values are (1) utterly essential to human flourishing, and (2) they are totally antithetical to religion as such. Religion, by definition, requires faith in something (an idea, a being, a statement, a story, a doctrine, whatever) which cannot be proven or verified.
   
   This does not mean that it's a black-and-white issue of religion always leading to closed-mindedness and regression. And religious people and societies can "square the circle" so to speak for a long time. But at its core, there has always been and will always be this fundamental tension with critical thinking, rationality and open-mindedness.
   
   (An example of "squaring the circle": For centuries science in the western world was dominated and led by devoutly religious people. This was sustainable for a period of time, but ultimately the core values of science (testability, falsifiability, critical thinking, etc) made this relationship untenable. The circle could no longer be squared. Today, the physical sciences flourish as never before, and scientists and other intellectual leaders are overwhelmingly atheist.)

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I see. thank you for explaining.
      BTW why are they in awe of that which occurs by accident?

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         secularist10posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Your premise is faulty. An "accident" is when you try to do something, but something else happens unintentionally. Reality just is.
         
         Scientists are explorers of reality, and reality is fascinating and awe-inspiring on its own merit. It does not need an external being to make it special.
         
         Moreover, here's something for you to consider: Suppose we say that God exists. The way I describe reality or nature (that it "just is," that it exists on its own merit, that it is its own end, etc) is probably how you would describe God. So "God" has not created anything new per se, it simply moves the goalpost and begs the question. God himself is an "accident," with no creator and no externally-defined purpose.
         
         Accordingly, then, I can ask you: why are you in awe of that which occurs "by accident"?

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            -so reality was not caused by anything in particular. It just occurred. I followed this same huge discussion in another forum. so .... boring.

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               secularist10posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Way to avoid the question.
               
               God was not caused by anything in particular. It just occurred. Presumably, just as "boring."

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               EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               If reality is boring, it's no wonder some folks live in a fantasy world who find wonder in things that aren't verifiable.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I meant the discussion of causation is boring. Reality is definitely interesting; especially as one deducts that all reality emanates from and is animated in
                  real-time by an omnipresent, genius of a Creator.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   This just in:
       Knowing that which is is provably "real," gives an atheist happiness.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      There is actually some truth to that.  Some of us DO find a certain satisfaction to finding an answer that we can know as "real" vs one that is simply assumed to be true without ever knowing.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         ...come on, Some truth? Some of you?  ( is "a certain satisfaction" sort of like "happiness" maybe the Stones song should have been " I can't get no happiness... ")
         - well, I guess you can only speak for yourself which is exactly where I got this tidbit. It must be really difficult to be you, who only allows himself to believe only that which is absolutely verifiable.
            
         But, for the price of that effort there is much to gain.
         
         BTW -don't you think at the subatomic level, your pet rock is alive?
         Is our sun "alive?"  It will, after all, eventually die.
         -what is the definition of life? A self-sustaining system. Isn't the whirling of protons and electrons, that occurs within atoms, an example of a self-sustaining system, as the churning of gases is, in the sun??
         I have a premise: All that truly exists as WIR is Life. So, Life can be called God.
         Agreed?

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            EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's far more difficult to fumble through mental gymnastics trying to make sense of things that aren't verifiable. Worse than that, it must be frightfully humiliating trying to explain why one believes something over here is unverifiable and not believe in something over there that is verifiable.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               - you talk funny. But, I agree with that first sentence. To interpret: It is easy to make sense of things that are verifiable.

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Life is most definitely NOT a "self-sustaining system"  ALL life requires food from outside itself and is thus NOT self-sustaining.
            
            Atoms may be self sustaining - I'd have to think about that one.  Certainly the sun is not, nor the churning of gases on either the earth or the sun.   
            
            You may, of course, define life in such a way that everything in existence is life on some level if you like.  It will not agree with any definition I would accept as very little in our universe is alive.
            
            Alive or dead, many things are real, but with no indication they are of a make believe creature from Kathryn's imagination.  So no, WIR is not necessarily of God.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               - then, what is real is based on its actual existence... pure and simple.
               A certain amount of satisfaction for atheists in general could possibly be knowing that which truly exists.
               
               This just in:
               *Happiness is knowing what truly exists.
               *This statement is true for atheists and theists alike, since we have established that happiness is a fundamental emotion common to all.
               
               Q. So what is the problem?
               
               A. The ability to verify.
               
               It seems tho be true that in this HP realm of anonymous keyboarders, most atheists cannot, do not, and will not trust the theist's ability to verify the existence of an Omnipresent Animator.
               So theists, take a tip from me. Don't even try. Well, go ahead if you want to keyboard your head off... but maybe a better idea would be to sign up for Keyboarders Anonymous.
               Just tryin' to be humorous.
               Finis.

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                  conradofontanillaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  huhhh!. I lost the thread. I will try to get back to it sometime soon. A quotable quote runs: Someone who is certain never doubts. That is from Bertrand Russell who is considered an atheist? or an agnostic? Well he wrote a book "Why I am not a Christian." He asked, who created god? he found no answer. Happiness is a feeling not a definition. A deductive definition is easy to make. One premise is god. I just feel happy without  any premise.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Thats fine, but who do you thank for all that is beautiful, good and loving in the world and in the solar system.
                     http://gl.higherbalance.com/cosmic-thread/
                     http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-cos … ealed.html

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   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   Happiness to an atheist is serving humanity.  Happiness to an atheist is also having an inwardly looking ethical principle that is not dependent upon outward religous authority.  Happiness to atheist is being kind and accepting of others regardless of their individual religious/ethical paths. 
   
   Happiness to an atheist is the use of inductive and deductive logic that is dependent upon sound reasoning instead of relying upon anachronistic religious rules that have no place in postmodern society.  Happniess to an atheist is just ............BEING and appreciating the universe in its entirety.   Atheists are no different from other people, it is time that atheists stop being considered to be OUTSIDERS and DEMONIZED. 
   
   Let's us be real about the situation, religious people, especially in these postmodern times, only give lip service to their respective faith and dogma.  They do not really in all honesty adhere to the dogma of their religions.  Many religious people view their religion as an afterlife insurance policy.  Many religious people SAY ONE THING and DO ANOTHER.  Let's REALLY get down to the nitty gritty regarding the matter of religiosity.   At least, atheists SAY WHAT THEY MEAN and MEAN WHAT THEY SAY.   Enough said!
   
   
   
   Stop DEMONIZING the atheist.  Atheists are just as good as religious people.  If people mind their own affairs, wouldn't that be nice! This societal religious hegemony must cease and cease immediately.  Religious people are not superior to atheists regardless of what the former may think!

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I do not believe anyone demonizes atheists. Their nonacceptance of others' belief in God is irritating, however and even discouraging. I am trying hard to keep my belief in God alive while in these religious forums. Sometimes atheists win and I feel defeated. I am wanting to keep my belief and love for God alive. By keyboarding what I do, I hope to give others the hope they need to continue having faith in the unseen Father who loves us and encourages us to guide our own wills.
      
      (I believe we have wills to guide as we choose
      within the boundaries of common sense,
      which religious, sorta-religious and non-religious people
      all subscribe to, or should subscribe to...
      for their own good.)

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         getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Makes sense. That's actually better than the Ten Commandments.   Atheist just don't see any need to ever insert a God.  As you've implied, it appears to be innate in the general human population to seek good, and avoid the bad.  Certain mores just follow the directive of our evolving DNA.
         I think everyone knows that a lack of any standards would destroy a society.....quickly.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         But your unseen father doesn't exist and doesn't seem to interfere in our affairs. We are quite capable of guiding our own wills without one. Why should anyone accept irrational beliefs? Do you still think homosexuals should be stoned to death for example? And why would my not "accepting," your belief in nonsense have any effect on whether or not you still believe it? Why start the fight in the first place if you think someone logically showing you your faith is unfounded is "winning."?

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            gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Mr. Knowles, the OP seems to be threatened by atheists.  I really don't know why.  Atheists are not bothering the OP by voicing their beliefs.  Why do some religious people become totally unhinged when a different perspective is presented in the forums.   Hmmmmm, this is totally nonplussing to say the least.   LIVE and LET LIVE I say.
            
            The problem is that so many religious people believe that things should go THEIR way.  Well, LIFE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY AT ALL!   Different folks inhabit the universe.   Some people seriously need to EVOLVE and GROW UP beyond their parochial consciousness. I find it highly intriguing that so many religionists and pietists become so discombobulated at the thought of atheists.  So quaint indeed!  Well, Mr. Knowles, don't sweat it and let it bother you.   The masses are oftentimes threatened by sound minorities.  That's par for the course in humankind.
            

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               Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I am not sweating it, but I am genuinely interested as to why some of these guys - including the OP - are so offended and threatened by atheists. Maybe she will elaborate.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Not in a million years!  Passive aggressivness will be the rule of the day and regarding the issue at hand.  So sad, so sad indeed.  It is soooo easy for them to be offended at difference and something which is clearly NONE none of their business. 
                  
                  THEY aren't happy unless THEY are meddling into the lives of others.  A good question one should ask in kind is What is happiness to an Religious Person? 
                  
                  ANOTHER good question to ask is Why DO Religious People maintain that their type and kind of happiness should be THE SAME  for EVERYONE?

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     My badness for even stepping foot into the religious forums. Never again.
                     
                     Can you imagine I got banned in this very Forum?? So humiliating.
                     ( whoops, gasp ... expressing feelings... Oh sorry, excuse me, I have not evolved to the point of being an AUTOMATON    )

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                        PhoenixVposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Happiness to an Atheist is spending their entire lives in religion forums, pretending to be psychologists, while claiming Mormons visit them 2-3 times a day.

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                           Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           I just received an email directing me to this post. That's two today, i'll wait for the third and call it a day. Oh wait, you said Mormons, my dyslexia prevented me from reading it correctly the first time, but what I read still applies.

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