How many people believe that Noah and the flood was a true, historical event? The Torah and Bible says the God instructs Noah to build an ark that measures 300 cubits by 50 cubits x 30 cubits high. First of all let's do the math. The ancient Sumerian cubit as about 518.6 mm or 20.42 in. The Ancient Egyptian cubit was similar, 523 to 529 mm (20.6 to 20.8 in), so we'll use the average of 20.6 inches. So the ark measured roughly 515' x 86' x 51.5' high = 2,280,935 sq ft.The size of an average land mammal is the size of a sheep and would fit and lay down in a 5' x 3' x 2.5' pen = 37.5 sq ft.. Noah was to bring aboard 1 pair of clean animals from all species - all to be slaughtered at the altar after the flood - and 7 pairs of dirty animals - to repopulate the earth. So that's 16 animals from each species. The estimated number of vertebrates on earth is about 62,305. Noah is going to need a bigger boat because 996,880 animals x 37.5 pens= 37,383,000 sq feet. 2.6 Titanics could fit easily in that square footage! So Noah's Ark is only big enough to carry 60,824 animals total and that would leave room for 0 supplies (that were suppose to last for well over a year), no passageways, no decks, or any other room for living quarters for Noah and his family. I'm not going to get into the complications of inbreeding or the idea of building a ship, 2/3 the size of the Titanic,out of wood and expecting it not to fall apart as soon as the first wave hits it. That's been done too many times. Believers make the mistake of thinking that the earth was round and consisted of 7 continents and 4 major oceans like it does today. 3000 years ago, the ancient Hebrews, along with many other Middle eastern cultures, believed the earth was flat and resembled the image below. This is where we get the term "pillars of the earth" and "four corners of the earth"-where four major mountain ranges supported the ocean canopy sky. Or we can agree that Noah's story is a play by play remake of a Sumerian/Mesopotamian story, written about 2500BC ( 2000 years earlier than Noah's story) called The Epic of Gilgamesh.
Which is more plausible, your guesstimate 6000 years removed from the actual event, or the testimony of possible eyewitness.
Eyewitnesses to a metaphorical "event"? Maybe they witnessed Gilgameshes' flood too. And the 100 other Noahs in mythology.
"Metaphorical" is your classification, not the author.
Says who? We don't even know who the author is.
Do you actually believe the Bible is literal? Do you realize there are a thousand contradictions in it?
One thing for sure whoever the author is, he did not say it was metaphorical, so that is your embellishment in order to cope with your unbelief.
The contrary mind can and will find contradiction in anything and this is how they thrive.
The Bible is a collection of writings, you can ask specific question about one book, but to generalise it as a single book is to grossly blindside yourself.
China is a modern nation as for NUWA??? ......both are irrelevant.
Anyway I already know you are not interested in reason outside of your already establish mindset, so stop asking vain questions.
That makes no sense. Finding contradiction is something that occurs when people use their brains to think.
You can't compare your brain to God's brain. Just let God do all the planing and thinking as there is no contractions in the bible. God is the best!!!
I won't ask YOU any more questions at all. Please feel free to ignore me as well.
Do you think that Noah from China, Nuwa, is just a coincidence?
How many witnesses survived to write it down?
The highest mountain above sea level is 29,035 ft.
Ad 50 more cubits at 20 inches each = 83 ft.
The bible describes the water level to be 29,118 ft above sea level.
Not much to breath up there.
As there isn't enough water on, in or over the earth to cover it all, Noah's flood is just another tall tale; a myth from the past that was blown up to something it never was and written into the Holy Bible as the Word of God.
In actuality, perhaps a rowboat with Noah and the family dog, staying dry the day when the river overflowed it's banks and spread a few inches over the ground for a hundred yards.
Noah story is true.
Russel Crowe just made a movie about it.
1. It made some sense, all the animal were asleep so they would not eat each other.
2. The GAINT Rocks people were fighting off all the bad people from taking over the Boat.
3. Dinosaurse were probaly killed off by then for there meat.
4 There were only 30 million species sleeping for 40 days. It's beats the wine and bread magic trick, pass out to 1000s.
5 God arrange the temperture and oxygen to be just right as they were flooting 3500 feet above sea level.
6. God plan, solved the salt water mix with fresh water and Poof!!! it was geen again in minutes.
7. They found the arc but the Worldwide science, won't believe.
God Damm those evil doers!!!
7 reason for 7 days work, not bad.
Sorry if I'm not clear, got dropped on my head the other day.
I believe you. Totally. Your explanation is SO clear!
The Gilgamesh story was based on even an earlier story. This was a true event that happened when the Euphrates River flooded. A Sumaritain king, who was also a merchant, wanted to get as much cargo up the river as possible. So he tied four barges together and loaded them up with cargo and animals along with himself and a few members of his family who were working for him. A flash flood, that lasted 4 days, took his barge all the way down the river and into the Arabian Sea. The story goes since he couldn't make it back, and in Sumaritian law states that even a king can loose their crown if they go heavily in debt, he and his group resettled in the the present day Somalia area.
It could have not have been just 4 days, that could have only happen in the real world, are you calling the Bible a lie. It was 40 days, get it right are you calling Russel Crowe a lair too. If only Heston had his gun right now, allll mighty....tthank God for that.
Since this thread is going to be one sided, and what Christian is going to defend a story like this. I've converted today, fire away.
Some brain cells have come back to me, it was 35,000 feet above sea level.
They cover the animals with hay to keep them warm and blew wind in, so they could breath. The the boat was vacuumed pressurized.
God took water from other planets, trillions of miles away. God covered the earth 4 time over, then sucked it all up all up and put the water back, I hope he held the other animals in heaven for wail , and not cut them loose into space. Some earth animal can live in space , you know.
Yu the Great
CORRECTION: Originaly I wrote, "The estimated number of vertebrates on earth is about 62,305."
This should be, "The estimated total of animal species on the earth is about 62,305.
Poor, poor, jealous, slithering, uninformed little haters. lol...
Dear Opening Poster,
Have you considered the fact that the world and its number of inhabitants has GREATLY increased since that time??? There was very likely less than half of the species of animal life as our GROWING earth has currently produced. Yes???
AND!!! Can we imagine how much BETTER the air was at the time??? NO!!! We cannot...we've ALL been smogged-out since birth. AND!!! How close was the sun to the earth when Noah (boat-building Noah, on a mission from the God of Abraham) was on the floating small island named boat??? Ya DON'T know, ya say??? Well me neither
Seems you/we are remarkably disadvantaged in attempting to FIGURE the conditions of thousands of years ago. We just gotta believe it...or don't.
I sure aint believing a SOUL from our day and time to tell me what happn that day. Y'all don't know. Oops, CORRECTION: Y'all CAN'T know. Nobody (dont care if ALL 26 letters are behind the name) can test NOTHIN' to give a remotely correct account.
Better start looking for remnants of the vessel... The BIBLE says, Noah (you know the one) sailed above the land after a huge rain storm...
aint that cool?
There were more species then than there are now. We've killed plenty of them off.
The sun was about 93,000,000 miles away, just like it is now.
Things don't change that much in a few thousand years.
You must be awfully, awfully old...
I cannot believe that you feel that a few thousand years is ALL we are talking... Those people lived hundreds of years then. Many, many generations ago.
And though we have extinctified many of them; the world has grown since. Breeding and cross breeding and new species popping up has convinced ME that you are undeniably mis taken.
It's only been a few thousand years since Noah's time. Don't you read your Bible? It's no older than 6000 years.
Species don't pop into existence that quickly. Some have come and gone naturally. Not many since the last ice age though, which is around 12 or 13 thousand years ago. Then all the big mammals, like Mammoths and saber tooth cats died. Then it's been smooth sailing since that last die off. WE have killed off thousands of species of plants and animals in the last few hundred years. Before their time.
Breeding doesn't make new species. Just different versions of the old. Like sheep and dogs. New breeds, same species.
Edit: The died off at the end I the last ice age, I meant to say.
Hhhhaaaaaaa!!!! You ARE old!!!
So tell me, who is it that has gotten YOUR attention to the point where you have THAT kind of faith???
6000 years... HA...
Can you give me THAT chapter and verse???
I am middle aged. So you can say I'm old if you want:)
It's not my math. It's common Christian knowledge that the world started 6000 years ago. What do you think all that talk of golden calfs and rams is about? It's astrological. Aries and Taurus. Pisces is the age of Jesus. Thus the fish symbolism. 2000 years or so per age. Don't you know this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius? Harmony and understanding and all that nonsense.
Plus, people add up the ages of the characters in the Bible and whatnot to come up with that number. Not me.
Please. NEVER tell me that story again. I have been so unbelievably shocked.
Cant nobody add up the ages in the bible to come up with a number. Don't you know all the factors that must be considered??? We CANNOT find out a few of those factors. Common Christian knowledge...hmph...
Silly me, what was I thinking. We all know God created the heavens and the earth on October 24th , 4004 BC, 12 noon, London time. The earth was covered by by a great water canopy and that explains how it rains. Since Gods' miracles only happened within a small radius in the Middle East we don't have to worry about snow. Although this sky canopy is thick enough to flood half the flat earth, it's thin enough for us to see the vast stars. Oh but wait. One of our closest stars is Sirius, which is 8.6 light years away, which means that the earth has to be older than 6,000 years old. Oh but wait, where did all that water go? Ignoring those facts and hoping no one will figure it out later, God went ahead and created man and woman at the same time, only to say later that he created man first and later, used one of his ribs to create woman. Oh but wait, if God can creates something out of nothing, why did he need a rib or impregnate a young girl 2000 years later? Then, as a joke, God created strange skeletal remains of unknown species that appear to older than 6,000 ears, and placed them in rocks to confuse us later on.
The ways of God are inscrutable and not for mere man to understand. Especially men with a "W" in their name - I've never understood such things either.
I HATE I missed this one... But wow...your faith is somewhere obviously. I just KNOW you MUST have a light year watch...
Also, the water is where it always was, beyond all that stuff you referenced.
You say Sirius is the closest star so THAT unequivocally indicates that the earth is older than your bible counters (who undeniably must have your faith too) say it is. Well alrighty then (in my Jim Carey voice).
First off, you are stuck on 6000 years for whatever reason, but I just know that WHATEVER the age of the earth, we will NEVER EVER be able to know for sure from our perspective. Believe as you wish. The bible gives NO indication of the age of the earth (but you believe what you heard)... the bible DOES however indicate Jesus as son of God and savior of the world (but that is scrutinized as more likely than not, a lie).
See??? Even you, with all your scientific info has ALSO placed your faith. It is not mentality; faith is the culprit. You just don't believe the bible. And that's cool; if that's what you want.
What? Can you reword that please because you can't be saying what I think you said?
Oh!!! And the bible also says that we WILL give account for EVERY LITTLE IDLE WORD that we speak one day. Can you imagine looking into the face of God while "your imaginary sky daddy" is playn on the tv???
Kidding aside, you called me a liar. Was that based on your Christian science or faith evidence or individual judgement?
I know many Christians can not handle my brutal honesty, sometime it's to a fault. For years on hub pages nobody has called me a liar yet. One thing for sure, I can not live a lie. Friends trust me, could not be bigot, jealous or disrespectful to allow for enemies.
Half of America believe the world is under 10,000 years old. My survey online showed only one person in ten believes in the story of Noah. The world's largest Creation Museum claims the world began over 6000 years ago.
Who is living a lie?
We shall see...
Your record is STILL safe. I have not really been one to blatantly call someone a liar. I was speaking to ATM on the post i believe you are referencing (I think). And cas was mentioned as a joke I thought was funny at the time because there was a (lair) typo from you which was supposed to be liar. That's all.
As far as the age of the earth...I do not give a hoot who thinks what. The age of the earth is God's secret. We can't know, no matter WHICH calculator we utilize. Too much to consider. Too much variation. No knowledge of vital factors such as ancient weather; ground temps; effects of ancient storms; ancient air/water purity. We's stumped!!! But we can KEEP GUESSING all we want.
Typo's is a long stretch to a person who is a liar. Better work more on your court jester. If the King of Kings gives nobody better clues on how the earth evolves, wail claiming universal knowledge and truth. That won't stop man from finding out closer ways to increase his knowledge of 1% known to much greater of the unknowns , to the level where everyone is God.
Since ypu obviously did not notice, I did not call ANYONE a liar. I simply pointed out that the statement made highlighted someone else the liar. Then I instantaneously remembered your typo an BAM I used the typo of Cas... I laughed out loud. And I bet someone else did too.
Nevertheless God is the ONLY knower of ALL things. The age of the earth is worth didley.
Actually, it's very easy to see the quality of the air from hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Have you ever heard of ice core samples? There are probably other methods to determine temperatures and quality, such as tree rings, archeological layers and what not.
After I got thrown out of bible school for asking too many question and laughing out loud about the bald headed priest story. Nature has been my religion, and history studies has helps with the present.
I don't think science has everything right, but facts are facts. Science certainly does a pretty good job of describing what's going on around us. I trust the method, although I don't necessarily trust all of the "interpretations" of the facts. Science can't prove the nonexistence of God, but I will keep my mind open that God may not exist. I'd rather know the truth that believe blindly in a "truth" that isn't real.
But you DO believe the checks of ancient air quality in ice cores.
Those are facts. I don't see anything wrong with those particular interpretations.
I have problems with thing like the Big Bang, and evolution.
Not ice core samples.
But checking air quality from thousands of years ago in ice is way more far-fetched. But I don't know science. And I guess I dont know ice either...
You type really fast.
Puh-leeeeez... Ice core samples??? GOOD LORD...
"There are probably other methods..." FAITH in a nice nutshell...
Weren't we just discussing that people make stuff up to help bolster their argument? And SOMEBODY asked Christians NOT ta do dat???
I'm not making anything up. It's science. I'm not sure of the details, but someone could probably come and explain it to both of us.
Oh? So now you give info on something you do not fully understand as truth and consider it a NOT lie??? But when Christians do it...
Why would someone lie about ice core samples or tree rings?
I don't think Christians are liars. I've never said that. I just don't think they are right. I think YOU think you are right. I don't call you a liar, or anyone else (unless I think they're lying about something in particular, but not usually about their personal beliefs.)
Well, people lie about many things. ESPECIALLY when they may debunk. Ice core samples (something that you or I cannot check) are GREAT for that purpose.
As for tree rings, wouldn't the weather make a huge difference in the way a tree grows? What if it took 3 years for the tree to get that other ring???
I do not care about being called a liar. The bible said I would be.
It is a huge sin to mislead someone biblically... I steer clear of that. All my bible learning comes from God himself. He does not lie.
People think I make stuff up because they do not KNOW biblical scripture and they do not KNOW the one who sent it...
I'm cool with that.
"Well, people lie about many things. ESPECIALLY when they may debunk. Ice core samples (something that you or I cannot check) are GREAT for that purpose."
I know not all scientists are honest(they are human beings, and I know some BS goes on in the scientific community) , but I think for the most part, they are honest, if not correct in all they do and theorize.
"As for tree rings, wouldn't the weather make a huge difference in the way a tree grows? What if it took 3 years for the tree to get that other ring???"
Sure it would, I guess. I think they grow a new ring each year, but that might not always be the case. I just don't know enough about it. I think they can get a general idea about weather and climate, though, from tree rings.
" I do not care about being called a liar. The bible said I would be. wink
It is a huge sin to mislead someone biblically... I steer clear of that. All my bible learning comes from God himself. He does not lie.
People think I make stuff up because they do not KNOW biblical scripture and they do not KNOW the one who sent it...
I'm cool with that."
I don't think you make stuff up. I don't agree with a lot of your beliefs, but I respect your honesty.
Yeah. That stuff is too iffy. I heard a new ring each year, but rain/no rain blows it out of the water.
Faith is key in ALL theory. Oh! God too.
That would be one of the rare cases of no ring - a near total lack of rainfall. Of course if it happened more than a couple times in a row, or a half dozen times in the life span, there won't be a tree to check anyway...
The result is that tree rings, particularly when checked through several species in the same area, is pretty accurate.
Fu say so... however, I will not be relying upon tree rings.
God. He did not say, "MAYBE I built this world and everything in it."
There was assurance in his voice.
Tree ring counters can't do that.
Very true - He did not say "Maybe I built this world". But should you not finish the thought? That He also did not say "I built this world"? As well as He did not say "I did NOT build this world"? Doesn't honesty require that as well as the first statement, or does honesty and complete truth give too much leeway to Satan?
I know you won't use tree rings; better to use the words transcribed by the Council in 300 AD, purportedly copying the words passed by word of mouth for the preceding 50 generations as they chose whatever words that bound the plebes tighter to the church.
Thank you, but I find tree rings much more accurate. And certainly more accurate than an imaginary voice inside my head that speaks only to the emotional center of my being.
The bible is his voice. And it confirms my statements. He built the world from the ground up. The council was on to something. Best seller EVER! Still in print.Translated the world over...
You DO know where the bible came from, don't you? Just who it was that oversaw it's compilation? Who the men (men) were that put it together, and translated it from earlier languages?
Then you know quite well that it didn't come from a god. Even if the god is accepted to have lied multiple times, it still didn't come from a god somewhere.
Of course it is case closed. To anyone valuing feelings (or power) over truth and honesty. That has been the story of religion since man invented his first god. Nothing has changed since then.
Uh...God is truth and honesty. There is only one. And he reigns.
Uhh...If God is truth and honesty you might want to re-think the constant barrage of statements presented as fact but are in truth only opinion - opinion based on nothing more than a desire they be true.
Statements like the bible is God's voice. Or that God built the world. Or that the bible came from God - a god you can't even show exists at all. Or that there is only one God or that He reigns. Presenting such statements as factual is not honest at all, and as I understand the Christian god, He does not approve of dishonesty.
Factual statements they are.
If you can have tree rings every year after droughts; I can have my reigning God.
Don't you just love Christian science, magic is everything.
Yep - weather makes a difference to tree rings. They become much smaller (narrower) and in specific, isolated and rare cases do not grow at all.
Do you really think that people using tree rings to date things haven't considered that?
Nice of you to actually say something honest for a change.
If someone worked their Trouble... on a comment I made recently; they could prove to another that genaea said, "your imaginary sky daddy" yesterday.
Belinda Samuels would probably be totally convinced that "genaea is one of them atheists."
But not ATM... He KNOWS genaea's spirit...
Anybody get that???
The bible has a lot catching up to the earth's 99% unknowns or call them spiritual unknown. How will Christian ever explain Noah's story from flying in the clouds, or in between ancient children's fairytale s
The bible is true. I tested!!! And I ALMOST got a degree... I can explain what the bible says. All else is speculation based upon what I know of the spirit of God.
Oh? How did you test?
No, I can explain what the bible says; I read just fine. All other false "interpretations" are just that - false - and not to be believed. Even those from people claiming God speaks to them or that they are prophets. All else is speculation, based on what I know of God.
I used my god-o-meter; and a "yes, Lord" he showed up...
So, would YOU believe I was atheist if somebody told you I was and showed you my Troubled statement about "your imaginary sky daddy"???
Kin ya getcha one o' them there 'god-o-meters' on ebay?
Is there millions of types of god-o-metter for a million gods out there?
I have a BS-0- Meter, Religion keeps falling off the scale.
I went out with black woman who was a minister of God and have a Brother who is a pastor. Don't believe both of them were any closer to God than anyone else.
Did get a burning cross,
It dose not scare me because culture makes more of a person difference than the color of their skin.
He means that he expected them to be closer to God than anyone else, but found they were not. "Closer to God" means what?
That be the case; they likely didn't display what he considers Christ-like behavior. But I hate to make assumptions.
“In truth,there was only one christian and he died on the cross.”
If Jesus came back and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up.” Woody Allen
“Christians are hard to tolerate; I don’t know how Jesus does it”
In TRUTH, there are many who know and love the Christ earnestly. He knows who they are. We, not always.
Study to show thyself approved. Try spirit by spirit. He judges us by our OWN faith. (All scripture) this shows that we cannot judge the kingdom by the acts of others. We should be; but many Christians lie for the sake of conscience. We cannot know fake if we don't know real. You know real??? Nope, you say???
Sorry, I missed you...
Uh, If we listen to the boards; Christ was kind to all. He didn't care if you were atheistic; or hellish; or gay; or unfaithful; or lustful. He was a friend to ALL (cum-by-ya) style. others claim him to be mean; hateful; fake; tyrannical and /or unjust.
Those of us who read and believe the bible know that he was single-minded in his approach and his family members were they who do the will of his father.
"others claim him to be mean; hateful; fake; tyrannical and /or unjust." Where do they get this info? The Bible?
Any quotes to back this opinion up?
Yes, the bible.
Unjust - remember hardening Pharoah's heart so there was an excuse to murder countless innocent first born? Remember punishing the sons of the father, unto three generations?
Tyrannical - to my knowledge there is one and only one god proposed; if power is involved that automatically makes it a tyrant.
Fake: Lots and lots of biblical claims, not a single bit of evidence that a god exists. Probably fake, then.
Hateful: See first instance.
Do these descriptions refer to Jesus himself? How so? Are they from the New Testament?
Jesus = God (= holy spirit). No, from old testament - why? Has God changed over the years?
What if when you read the bible you do not equate Jesus with God or Holy Spirit. What if you really do leave out the God of the Old Testament. What if you read Jesus without any preconceived notions at all?
What if you read this without any preconceived notions:
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
If you do not deify Jesus, then there was no creator, no heaven and no hell. No eternal life and no fire forever. And there is certainly no reason to think Jesus was any better than any of a half dozen others throughout history, people such as Ghandi or even Mother Theresa. If he is not a god, then he gave decent guidelines for living, but not ones that MUST be followed on pain of punishment or reward.
It is within us. Heaven, He said, is within. First there were many Gods. Then, one God, Now there is the God within each of us. It all points to Spirit. That is which is beyond and the cause of the physical. It is subtle, but it is real. Jesus was able to detect it! We can too, if we focus on it.
While that concept sounds wonderful, and could even be true, it has nothing to do with the Christian god, either God or Jesus. None of that is biblical and none is verifiable any other way, either.
They get it straight from scripture. Add pepper and not a clue... voila...
They do not have a clue… why not?
Ill tell you why… because scripture is confusing. You have to understand it in light of science. The science behind all religion.
90% of the professional scientist would not support you on that.
Religion and science is like oil and water , science being more like water.
The highest report was by atheist at 98% and lowest was on wiki 75% non believers that were professional scientist. If at best Religion has 25% of the professional scientist then Christian are 1/3 of the total population of all religions.
About 8.2% Christians are scientist at very best, what do they know about the entire earth core and the Universe?
Well I can't dammed towards the other million gods like a Christian can or be ever so Jealous. They all got they same 50/50 chance to be closer to God, why can't they all be god and sexual being, we all know what is right or wrong? Or would be too intelligent of a concept.
That would be horror able, everyone getting along because they are all god?
About 85% of the world believes there is a God in their own way, Why not make everyone god and avoid the greatest conflict on earth and everyone be happy ever after?
We can, by tuning into the spirit of God within us. We are not Gods, but we are souls. We can tune into the spirit of God within us and without us.
Dose f mean f__k God. Spiritual is 99% unknown , your just fighting or joining a fight clubs of the the unknowns.
it was a typo…"of"… is what I edited it to.
Spirit is 99% unknown to you...
you know the spirit of your best friend. You can even pinpoint his/her views.
Let start for what each of of us know, which is only 1% of the earth crush at best. That includes 80% of the earth's surface, water and 6 km, deep of the earth surface. The rest of the 99% mass of the earth is unknown to everyone.
Your going to tell me the spiritual world you know plus the trillion of planets, stars and sun you have full knowledge of because your lord tells you so.
Is this Christian science your talking about?
i thought a cubit was the length from ones wrist to their elbow.
There are several different cubits, with exact lengths.
I suppose the boat could easily vary in size depending on whether we use Shaqille O' Neal's arm or Hervé Villechaize for defining the cubit's length.
Noah was much taller than Shaqille 'Neal's and 600 years older too.
And what was your conclusion? Will even the Shaquil arm cubit make a boat that can house millions of species?
We've already talked about that. There weren't that many. And if God gives direction it would have floated using Little Shirley Temple's arm; on the Good Ship.
You might have concluded there weren't that many, not me.
I choose to live in reality, where there are actual (real) numbers of species for certain time periods, which doesn't matter anyway, since Noah's flood is a myth.
The world has grown since the time of Noah. There is NO way to be positive that there was not PLENTY of room for each animal; with room to spare. No way to convince me.
You won't be convinced because you don't want to be. You like fairy tales, that's your problem.
Notice Jane said she prefers to live in reality, hence if you say the same thing as she does in regards to fairy tales, then that would imply reality is a fairy tale. Or, you really have nothing to say and that is just a typical kindergarten playground response.
But, Jane is absolutely right and the reality we all share is not the fairy tale.
There may well be no way to convince you, but that doesn't mean that we can't be absolutely positive there wasn't room on the ark for all the animals Noah is supposed to have collected.
I doubt that. However, the Ark could have been twice as long as it purportedly was told in the fable and it still would be nowhere big enough to carry one of every species on earth, let alone two.
You don't know either that the world and the numbers of inhabitants was much smaller then.?
A few thousand years ago, there were millions of species of animals.
Or, are you referring to the fairy tale version, again?
Please cite your eyewitness source. I need to ask him myself. and I need to know that he is remembering clearly and confidently.
Scientific sources are more reliable than eye witnesses.
I don't agree for this subject. Scientific study is based upon what we think we know already. If Scientific Sam thinks he knows that God does not exist, guess what...
I cannot find out how many animals existed then (until ATM's guy shows up)
There is NO record of that ANYWHERE. We must go by what we think we know already.
As a note... animals are regional. Not all animals live everywhere at the same time. Here in South Chicago there are NO polar bears, no mongoose, no cheetahs, no camels, no rattle snakes, no seals, no shark, no pandas etc. etc. and etc. There are more animals NOT here than here. I wonder if Noah had the same deal...lol.
No, no one knows that there were far fewer species 6,000 years ago. A handful make the claim, but of course the only reasoning is that they want it to be so. They certainly have no evidence to back the notion.
Nor is the earth significantly larger today - the meteorites that have hit since the planet that made the moon have not added significantly. Nor did a god wave their wand and double the size, either.
My point is that we CANNOT know. But we may believe howsoever we wish.
I am going with the biblical version of things. I believe the bible is true. Therefore, I will not take the word of Dr. ANYBODY above it; nor will i give him more credit. He don't know either (he was not there). I will never understand how atheists believe OTHER tests but will not believe mine. I tested too!!!
I can't fathom how someone would believe in a literal truth of the Bible. It isn't consistent, for one thing. At all. There's like four totally different versions of the Gospel. They have contradictions.
True. Given a god up there somewhere, He may have put all those bones from other species in the ground to fool us. So we would go to hell 'cause we didn't believe His prophet when she said they weren't there after all.
Unfortunately for your "version" it isn't true. It doesn't even agree with itself, let alone the geological history plainly laid out to those that study and understand such things. This isn't surprising, considering the knowledge base of the barbarians that began the bible (or finished it, for that matter), but understanding that doesn't make it true, either.
Sure you tested. And you plainly aren't telling the truth about it either. Testing doesn't mean reading more crap from those old barbarians and then changing it until it agrees with what you think should be true. No matter how good it makes you feel, it isn't "testing" anything but your capacity to fool yourself.
Have you found bones from a million or more species of animals from Noah's time??? Or have you a large "capacity" as well...
Why don't you read about paleontology yourself, and then you might learn something useful. Who knows, it might even be interesting for you.
The "useful" info is NOT in no paleontology book...
Then take the word of the experts. They have a better idea that a fiction writer from 6000 years ago.
You stick with what YOU know; and I will stick with what I know. Thanks
I got tired of testing them for age after finding 3,486,395 all older than 5,000 years. And besides, they were filling up the living room - Mastodon bones do that rather quickly, ya know.
So there is something off about your timelines.
Btw, have you thought about that regional thing???
What regional thing? The spin and twist that Noah's flood was only a few square miles in extant, even though His Word says otherwise?
No. Animals are regional. Where I live we ONLY have a few of the world's animal inhabitants. You think Noah did too???
He's talking about the regionality of the flood itself. Not the animals.
That reminds me. How did Noah get penguins and polar bears to put on the Ark? Did he travel to the poles and cage them, and haul them back to his boat?
I'm already guessing, you won't even try to answer me directly, if at all.
Yes. Travel with lots of big cages. The food bill for the carnivores alone, waiting for the flood, almost bankrupted poor Noah even after hundreds of years saving for such an eventuality.
Uh...that's what I'M saying. Millions of species were not inhabitants of the SAME land. So...
Of course animals are regional, but that is also irrelevant to either Noah or the ark. God commanded him to gather samples of every animal, not just those within eyesight, and he did so. He even crossed both Atlantic and Pacific, crisscrossing all the continents in his search for specific insects and other microscopic animals such as amoeba's and phyto-plankton. The deep cave dwellers were a problem as the cave entrance was often too small and had to be blasted out so Noah could get in, but he managed it with a few pads of C-4.
The blue whale was a bit of a stretch for an ark only half big enough for it, but I believe God shrunk it to goldfish size (faith, ya know). Must have took Noah 6 months just to forge the hook to catch it with, though, along with the harness for the 5,000 camel team to drag it into the ark.
Just think of the millions of types of bacteria as well. And what about viruses? I suppose a few hitched rides on the animals and the lice and fleas probably had rides too, but....
No, gotta give the poor old man a break on the viruses. There is discussion now that we shouldn't even consider a virus as a living organism - let's go with that. Besides, he didn't have very sterile conditions and everything would have died in the months on board if it was stuffed with a kajillion different kinds of virus.
But I'm a little concerned about rats, fleas and the black death...wasn't that a bacterial infection? Maybe God confined the fleas to the circus for the entire journey.
But one of the biggest problems would have been to separate the amoeba's and other asexual animals into male and female. That must have been quite a problem - I don't see even God doing that job very well. And there are some animals like the percula fish (nemo) that change sexes; what if the poor guy started with one of each and ended up with two the same!!??
Your theory sounds good, but did Noah even need to have fish on the ark? lol
Oh, yes. That the ignorant peasants then didn't think what that much fresh water would do the the salinity of the oceans doesn't change that the earth would have been covered with brackish water; all salt and fresh water life would perish without help from Noah. If fact, all plant life would also perish; no plant or seed could survive being under 5 miles of water (15,000 PSI) for months on end. Noah not only had to carry animals but samples of all the plant seeds as well.
The reports from those ancient peasants barely touch the difficulties Noah faced; we have to understand that was just the beginning of it all. For instance, water fell at a rate of over 300" per hour - the sheer weight would have swamped the ark in only minutes. Automatic pumps, BIG ones were necessary...probably powered by elephants and/or whales. That much weight (a Billion cubic miles of water) added to the earth would have changed the rotation period drastically; can you imagine the winds that would have brought about? The ark was probably a submarine, hiding beneath the waves as storms not seen for millions of years raged overhead. A garden hose for each pair of animals, up the surface, could provide air.
It's amazing that those peasant eyewitnesses even left reports at all. Think of how Noah had to keep all of those reports organized and on his hard drive. And I'm not even sure hard drives were invented 6000 years ago. Maybe the one on my dinosaur computer....
Well, I picture the eyewitnesses quickly sealing their record in a zip lock baggie, attaching a small balloon, and letting the rising water have it. Noah found a few thousand of them and compiled the story - the only problem was writing it down before writing had been invented. Probably borrowed a computer from the dinosaurs, or used yours.
lol....they can HAVE my old beast, not just use it:)
I don't think they had balloons back then. Maybe they used puffer fish. (Also explains why we still have puffer fish around).
Again right on top of things. Yes, puffer fish; the only thing that could float through the maelstrom of 5 miles of water falling in just 40 days. They would just float right up the stream.
The only thing left is to provide some light; with that kind of "rainfall" it will be black as the ace of spades on the surface. The earth will cool very rapidly, with the last mile or so being just snow instead of rain. (It also means the elevation of the ark is well beyond breathable air, but a blue whale has a lot of air inside.) Things are cold and things are dark; Noah needs some firewood, quick...and the ark grows large holes...
Angler fish (again, no wonder we still have all these species from Finding Nemo, they were all on the ark.) Bioluminescence , no real fires involved. Perfect.
And should we wish beauty, a squid can provide colored lighting. Perfect indeed.
But we still need heat in the frozen wasteland that will persist for months before all the water is transported back to the Enterprise (no other way to get all that water off earth). Suggestions? Could Noah have invented fusion, hydrolyzing water into hydrogen and oxygen and then fusing the hydrogen into helium to make a miniature sun on earth?
Or did God do that, with the helium then floating away into space (lighter than air, don't you know) and solving the water disposal problem at the same time?
I'm sure there's a fish for all that, right? There has to be.
I don't know...not too many fish carry fire around with them. The environment isn't really conducive to that.
But if a big fish can carry a man around for several days in it's belly, maybe it can carry a fusion reactor, too.
Sure! A little instant re-piping and the water being strained by the baleen is now hydrolyzed by (modified) baleen strips into hydrogen. And from there to the reactor, where it is fused and put out the blow hole.
I bet that's exactly what was done! Good job!
I give most of the credit to you. I might have had the idea, but you came up with the details that makes it work:)
Well, that's what teamwork is all about isn't it?
Perhaps, instead of a mere movie about drowning out the world, we should flood it all ourselves? I'm sure we could find a modern "Noah" (Obama? I'd send him on a goose chase to find microbes any day) somewhere - shall we start it raining?
NO! I live in Oregon, and it was a miraculous 75 degrees today....just wait a day or two, and the rain will come back:)
Well...a few months, then. Say in August, when temperatures run 110 degrees for weeks at a time, without a drop of rain. Cause I'm a bit East of you and summer is not nice here.
If this all fell around Christmas time, then the colored lights would be useful.
Wait, Christmas wasn't invented in Noah's time, so never mind on that one.
At least it now explains, biblically, how same-sex marriages came into being. Now the Christian haters can shut up about it.
Noah was busy building; not traveling. Why confuse things?
Confuse things by asking relevant questions? Gold TOLD him to get the animals. Where did he get them, and how did he do it? Ask them politely?
Come, come! Focus!
It is truth we wish, not conveniently "forgetting" or "ignoring" important facets of the tale. Noah had to collect buffalo, Kangaroo and polar bears: he traveled as necessary to do so. It says so right in God's Word because Noah DID collect those things (2 mosquitoes; male or female?).
Eh? You are wondering about mosquitoes?
I am wondering how he collected and stored AIDS virus, gonococci and Treponema pallidum (organism causing syphilis). [Syphilitic organism cannot live outside human]
*waves hand airily* Details, details. God's magic could have done it easily. Or maybe Noah had a daughter somewhere that could carry all the ugly diseases; the loss of another mere woman would not have been of much impact and would not have been recorded by the peoples of the time.
theres a replica of the ark in sweden i think. the builder used the biblical cubit .the length from wrist to elbow when building it. i saw a discovery channel show about it.
First of all, those who take the Bible entirely literally are missing the Truth (spirit) of it. That's like watching exercise videos and expecting to be stronger. Duh!
Was Noah's story a retelling of an earlier flood story? Who knows? Perhaps it was. That doesn't make it any less real, if it was.
Consider this: A new biblical timeline has been found which is compatible with those of mainstream science. The new Flood date reveals, through science, the target of the Flood. That target was a species which went extinct at the new Flood date. That target was described in Genesis 6 as the "daughters of men."
Perhaps it's not much, but it's a start. It's evidence that Noah's Flood may have been a real event.
Rod Martin, Jr.
"The Bible's Hidden Wisdom: God's Reason for Noah's Flood"
There are hundreds of flood stories. I don't think it points to a real event. I think it points to something deeper. What, I'm not really sure. It seems to be a metaphor for something, in my opinion. I honestly don't think the stories are copying each other, either (in some cases they probably are, but I wouldn't even say most). There are many "themes" such as the flood that are found in myth and religion world wide. Those themes are important, I think. They tell a story about something. Us? Life? who knows. There's certainly something to it all, that is deeper than the literal interpretations.
Could you please provide the articles showing this new species discovery you call "the daughters of men"?
Was just inspired to reread the story. A few things to note.
While the story first says that Noah is to bring 2 of every living creature on board it somehow changes to 7 pairs of every kind of (clean) animal and 1 pair of (unclean) animal.
And then after the flood…
"Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood."
He sure loves a needless slaughter. Without sin?
Then of course Noah curses his grandson for his father stumbling upon Noah naked and drunk.
“Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers.”
This was the one guy that God thought was a good guy? What's up with that?
The Noah Movie with Russell Crowe, did not show Noah's Wrath toward his grandson.
Noah tried to kill off mankind and even two baby girls, born on the boat. The family did not eat meat and the rock people represented over mining, and a few other enviromental messages, unBible like.
With all of our ideas, Wilderness, you and I could make our own Noah movie. Except this one would be Biblically accurate.
Don't forget entertainment. Everyone's going to get bored that long stuck in an overfilled boat. We have to think of morale.
That's where the Clownfish comes in (again, more Nemo) and fits right in with your flea circus.
Everything's falling into place!
It's finally making some real sense now.
Obviously the real story went like this:
The alien race who had dropped off the first perfect humans onto earth couldn't believe the hideous creatures the humans were producing through multitudes of genetic engineering and cloning experiments. There were giants 15 feet tall and hideous ogres crumpled and crawling. There were large headed, spectacled geniuses who were close to finding the secret formula for power and immortality. (Sure enough, in that time, humans were living to be 900 years old!)
There were those who were half horse and half goat and those who had de-evolved into Neanderthals. And all these had begun to overtake the genetic pool of mankind. So the aliens built a craft… like the one in the bible? No. A space ship designed for the mission of extracting the DNA and RNA of all creatures large and small, including cockroaches!
They wanted to destroy mankind altogether, but managed to find some pure and perfect humans, (Noah and his relatives,) so they brought them on board too. Then they manipulated the weather, melted the polar ice caps, and washed out all life on earth…
Noah and his relatives were brought to the planet of Altair where they lived for 500 years. Meanwhile the aliens were busily reseeding the earth with the plant and animal genes and codes which they had extracted. Eventually the abundance of plant, insect, bird and animal life once again flourished. Then, the perfect race of humans were reintroduced onto beautiful earth. They lived out the remainder of their time which was about 120 years. And of course, these descendants had great sex and produced more perfect people. They promised to keep it that way for eternity.
And lived happily ever after. The end.
You could very well have it down, except it wasn't Altair, but Betelgeuse III. Altair is still uninhabited but for a handful of dinosaurs, mostly Triceratops, that are slowly dying out. Betelgeuse, however has been producing radio and TV signals for many decades; it's where the original "Lucy" series came from, along with "The Waltons".
Why are the triceratops dying out! We need to go to the rescue! Why have we not contacted Nasa JPL, Cal Tech about this matter? Forget Mars! I suppose they are too busy with their dune buggy on Mars and writing witty script for the The Big Gang theory, unless it was broadcasted from Betelgeuse III too. Yes???
Their horns are too heavy, and it is weakening their neck muscles to the point they cannot hold their head up. We COULD remove those horns, but the ivory trade is illegal, including collecting horns, so that is out.
No, the Big Bang Theory comes to us from Sirius IV, a relative newcomer on the list of inhabited planets. It is only recently that the "people" there have managed sunglasses strong enough to see past the dog star's -1.4 brightness.
Nope. just a good line from one of the Batman movies that seemed to fit here
If Aliens did came down and gave Religion an enema, we would be down to 15% of the population. I like that way to wash our sins.
So much of life is unknowable. Jesus gave hints and clues.
If life was not a mystery, life would not be fun.
And the reality show of Life would be boring.
And the soap opera of Life would not be worth watching.
But, I wonder just Who is watching?
...he said He would return… he does have a lot of explaining to do!
(I'll stop discussing the NT now.)
I hope the christian hide their crosses.
Jesus would not want to see crosses anymore than JFK wants to see another gun, which so many American are proud of.
Yeah, cuz its all about them. (Jesus and John)
PS We are supposed to be headed back to the OT or the epic. which I have never read by the way. Where is that epic found?.
Christian had to borrow from the Jews OT to explain their History, they don;t even want to talk Hindu's stories they borrowed or stole from.
How can they possible explain dinosaurs?
How do you?
More importantly when was the flood of Noah?
Most date relate to about 2350BC, give or take a few hundred years. Noah took 120 years to build the ark. That’s really tough for a 600 year old man. His grandfather was the smartest man ever, he lived to almost 1000 years old, give or take decades. If this were true, he would be my all-time hero, if he could have sex at that age, he would be the greatest GOD on earth to look up to.
If a man could live to a 1000 years, why was not one man living back then, smart enough to build a himself to survive. If they were so wicked back then, anyone of the many had 120 years to think or steal the idea from Noah
Another- “you gotta have blind faith”
"The story of Noah's Ark and the Great Flood is one of the most famous from the Bible, and now an acclaimed underwater archaeologist thinks he has found proof that the biblical flood was actually based on real events.
"Four hundred feet below the surface, they ( Robert Ballard and his team) unearthed an ancient shoreline, proof to Ballard that a catastrophic event did happen in the Black Sea. By carbon dating shells found along the shoreline, Ballard said he believes they have established a timeline for that catastrophic event, which he estimates happened around 5,000 BC. Some experts believe this was around the time when Noah's flood could have occurred.
"It probably was a bad day," Ballard said. "At some magic moment, it broke through and flooded this place violently, and a lot of real estate,150,000 square kilometers of land, went under."
The theory goes on to suggest that the story of this traumatic event, seared into the collective memory of the survivors, was passed down from generation to generation and eventually inspired the biblical account of Noah.
Noah is described in the Bible as a family man, a father of three." (He was 600 years old.)
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/eviden … d=17884533
From site listed above:
"Ballard's track record for finding the impossible is well known. In 1985, using a robotic submersible equipped with remote-controlled cameras, Ballard and his crew hunted down the world's most famous shipwreck, the Titanic.
Now Ballard is using even more advanced robotic technology to travel farther back in time. He is on a marine archeological mission that might support the story of Noah. He said some 12,000 years ago, much of the world was covered in ice.
The water from the melting glaciers began to rush toward the world's oceans, Ballard said, causing floods all around the world.
"The questions is, was there a mother of all floods," Ballard said.
According to a controversial theory proposed by two Columbia University scientists, there really was one in the Black Sea region. They believe that the now-salty Black Sea was once an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland, until it was flooded by an enormous wall of water from the rising Mediterranean Sea. The force of the water was two hundred times that of Niagara Falls, sweeping away everything in its path."
If had enough money, even I could find the Titanic, so many witnesses and real stories
Ballard isn’t suggesting that Noah’s ark is real, however. His team suggests that the story of this traumatic event, seared into the collective memory of the survivors, was passed down from generation to generation.
Did you read the article?
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/eviden … d=17884533
Yes I read , it's all over the map written by someone else, very little matching story to many of the other proclaimed finding of the ark
...well, it is backed-up by carbon dating… you are not impressed by that? Maybe I am too easily impressed. What about the process of gathering and taking care of so many animals? Unless they just brought on board what they could in their limited area. How can anyone accept the story of Noah's Ark? It is definitely baffling.
Nevertheless, I think that the flood referred to in the Gilgamesh story referred to Noah's flood as it happened in history… before the days of King Of Uruk. It was a lesson for the King of Uruk and served to temper his blind ambitions.
"The 'Old Babylonian' version, dates to the 18th century BC and is titled after its incipit, Shūtur eli sharrī ("Surpassing All Other Kings"). Only a few fragments of it have survived. The later "Standard Babylonian" version dates from the 13th to the 10th centuries BC and bears the incipit Sha naqba īmuru ("He who Saw the Deep", in modern terms: 'He who Sees the Unknown).
The first half of the story relates a friendship between Gilgamesh, king of Uruk, and Enkidu. Enkidu is a wild man created by the gods as Gilgamesh's peer to distract him from oppressing the people of Uruk. Together, they journey to the Cedar Mountain to defeat Humbaba, its monstrous guardian. Later they kill the Bull of Heaven, which the goddess Ishtar sends to punish Gilgamesh for spurning her advances. As a punishment for these actions, the gods sentence Enkidu to death.
In the second half of the epic, Gilgamesh's distress at Enkidu's death causes him to undertake a long and perilous journey to discover the secret of eternal life. He eventually learns that "Life, which you look for, you will never find. For when the gods created man, they let death be his share, and life withheld in their own hands". However, because of his great building projects, his account of Siduri's advice, and what the immortal man Utnapishtim told him about the great flood, Gilgamesh's fame survived his death... " Wikipedia
I wonder what the immortal man told the king of Urik about the "great flood?"
Because, clearly, Noah was able to gather animals from the other side of the world without any means of trans-oceanic transportation, and he conveniently herded all the marsupials into Australia and all the lions/hyenas/zebras/wildebeest into Africa with no crossover anywhere. And he managed to fit all 1.5 million animal species (plus dinosaurs, because God did say "all") into a boat one-third the size of the Titanic (which, need I remind you, barely held 2300 people).
And he did this at the ripe old age of who-cares-because-it's-over-150-and-that-should-instantly-raise-red-flags-to-anyone-with-a-working-brain.
Get it through your heads, people. It's an allegorical tale that has been embellished to ludicrous extremes over the generations.
I made a point earlier about how there were much fewer animals then. The world was smaller.
Also, all the animals could very well have meant all the animals in close proximity. Which would actually decrease your numbers dramatically.
And when we add the wondrous acts of God, we know all things are possible. The Arc story is nothing in comparison to all possibilities.
Genesis 6:19-20 - "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. / Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive."
'Every' is a funny word...
Also, marsupials are pretty much exclusive to Australia and South America, which means Noah wouldn't have been able to go there and grab them, according to you. So you're telling me an entire classification of animal branched off, developed several prototype species, and then thrived to the numbers we have now in less than 4,000 years? Yeah, okay. Seems legit.
Every IS a funny word. Every last one you see... fits, yes? And only includes close ones. Marsupials can swim. Penguins, polars, even most cats.
And one more time...you are making much more of the number of years since the incident than humanly possible. We cannot know...
The dang flood probably changed things around forever. air and water most likely has never been the same. Our tests are most likely based on what we think we know. Assumption... and you know what "they" say about that.
If you took a calendar year to represent earth existence for over 4 billion years. Dinosaur would have existed 3 months and Man would have existed 10 minutes, dinosaur were far more successful
The great thing about man, is the size of his brain (which we abuse often). The only thing grandeur than his brain is his Ego. Christian believe the creator of the Universe created Man in his image. Christian also threating other groups that another end of the world is near.
Man may go existence. like the other 95% species that ever lived on earth. If Man did manager to off myself , then the waters and sky would be blue=er and many other species would have a better chance.
correction , Man may go extincted, (not existence)
WHO knows, what planet man may moved to.
Now if THAT aint gibberish, I just don't know...
It's funny how people like you take a fairy story, only a few paragraphs long, make up "facts' (based on nothing) on how this or that could happen to make the stupid story work! Put the biblical coloring books away and pick up a science book and maybe you might learn something. Or maybe not because you're so brainwashed that you'd find any piece of hard evidence faulty or unbelievable but have no problem believing in talking snakes!
Talking snakes are around every corner. So that's not so hard. However what's funny to me is how people like you take the story and try like hell to disprove it; if only in their heads. And "highly convincing" gadgets.
Either you believe it or you don't. You cannot definitively say that it did not happen. Make up what you wish. I am pro bible. It says rain; rain it is...
You needs hard heavy drugs, when your high on the lord, to the point of seeing snakes and demons around every corner.
Young Earth Creationism is contradicted by scientific evidence from numerous scientific disciplines that shows the age of the universe is 13.798±0.037 billion years, the formation of the Earth was 4.5 billion years ago, and life first appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago.. I assure you, that the scientific community knows better or closer how old the earth is, than you
None of us have a clue about the age of the earth. We guess away. And STILL cannot get it definitively. Drugs may help us to think we got it... but we don't got it. We won't.
It is a lie to say that the bible pinpoints an age to refute. It is confounding material. Rat on wheel style
The Bible doesn't spout out a date, but it does list off a genealogy which, when you sit down and do the math (as Mr. Archbishop James Ussher did), comes out to the earth being created at 6:00 PM on Saturday, October 23rd, 4004 BC.
Which, I'm sure, would have been a big shock to the Sumerians, who had already been around for--give or take--1500 years.
They build the worlds largest Creationiat Museum upon that assume fact
Those who seek clues, shall find. The Bible is often clueless about a lot of details of events.
Religion is mix with Politics which really screws thing up for the poor who get less and helps the rich get richer. Then generally people are smarter than the rich and there nothing the Government can do that the private sector can not do better.
You take away the measuring stick of science and use it to threaten and beat people with hell, you got hell on earth. Noah story is a example of that.
Those who seek clues shall find more clues. That's it!!! those who seek God will find God.
The measuring stick of Science is not as long. We gotta beat people right!!! lol...
Hell on earth has nothing to do with Noah. It's all them darn talking snakes.
Your one of the most one-sided person have ever talk to. Lets say you pick the incorrect God out of the millions of Gods to choose from. It can happen , since the spiritual world is totally unknown to everyone of us
From all the Hells described, your Lords hell is the worst, is it because he loves you and all of us soooo much. or I'll never get Religious good sense.
If you took any calendar to represent any number for the age of our earth's existence; there was more than likely a huge error. There are too many things that cannot be known. You speak with assurance. How can you be so sure; and I cannot???
Maybe we should ask the science guy on YouTube, he is a Christian scientist because he wears a white lab coat.
And the more interesting aspect of the reality show would be over.
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