What is the purpose of religion?
The purpose of religion is to try to figure out why life isn't fair. Actually, the answer is pretty simple: the universe doesn't care.
Thoughts?You just wanted to get me off the other forum so you'd have more room over there to chat. Next time just tell me to go away.
Not true. I like having you around, no matter where you are.
The true meaning of religion is establishing a relationship with the Ultimate Being. However, organized religion's purpose is instill superstitious fear into the masses which results in the latter giving away their power to an authoritative figure to even amass more political and socioeconomic power. Another purpose of organized religion is to take away spirituality and replace with mindless conformity to religious dogmatic rules Religion as we know it presently is merely a fear inducing conformist conglomerate. The mantra is either one goes along with the program or face societal and/or spiritual disapproval/ostracism.
Not aware of any such thing as non organized religion. How does that work? You collect money from yourself?........
Not actual facts across the board. Maybe your experience with a specific church or denomination? There are many churches who exist to serve God and their fellow man in love. These churches make an amazing and beautiful impact on the world. I'm sorry if you have not experienced these churches.
@ S.-m.
I think he meant God doesn't care.
Q. What is the proof that He does?
@ P.
Q. What is the purpose of religion?
A. To give us a way to guide our free wills toward happiness and actual purpose while we are here.
Purpose:
- to get out of here.
( It wasn't designed to be fair.)
TWISITherefore, whoever designed it is a pr!ck.
Do you mean b/c you have problems, God is at fault?
Are they first world problems or third world problems?
Just curious.Actually, I've been watching The Guardian on Netflix for the last several days.
I saw that. It's just a movie, right? Not a series?
I didn't know about the move. I'm watching the series. I started at Season 1; Episode 1. Am now at Season 2; Episode 21. It is not pretty.
Huh... Ill have to check it out. Though I don't know if Id like it if it made me angry at God.
Im watching The Black List right now. It's pretty good.For me, not anger. Just confirmation of my resignation as to our lab-rat-ness. And gratitude as to not having so many of the awful problems that so many others have.
I've been noticing that title. I'll make it next on my list.You're not a lab rat. You are loved. Rats aren't loved.
Im not. Im just ok for the most part. But my God is good and His love for you is never ending. I want you to know that someday. <3
He is welcome to drop me a benign note any time. Failing that, maybe He can drop a note to whomever it is that treats our species like lab rats.
Life feels like that sometimes, believe me, I know.
But this isn't the final destination. I believe there's more to come, and in Heaven, the pain and suffering will be left behind. That's where my hope lies. You're in my prayers PDS. Hang in there.Thanks. All things considered, my guess is that I'm probably better off than at least a billion other people, http://www.census.gov/popclock/ . My concerns are more of a metaphysical/philosophical nature.
Leaving the body is in the cards.
Transitioning to having no body, except for the light blue-print, is an eventuality.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing, do you think?
I keep changing my mind.Life after death. That is the question. And if there is indeed life after death, what is the logical basis to assume that it is better? It could actually be worse. Perhaps before-life and after-life are one and the same. And our life here is something that for them is comparatively heaven. After all, if the universe doesn't care about here, then it is logical to conclude that it doesn't care about there either.
This is as bad as it gets. If you are awake here, you will be awake there. If you are asleep here, you will be asleep there. The universe does not care. The universe just holds us. It is neutral.
God, however, is positive. When we receive that charge, Bliss.
...something like that.Sometimes we spin an issue till it's a whole new thing.
Either the Bible is true or it isn't. Either God is who the Bible says He is or He isn't.
If the Bible's not true and God's a liar, then this is all there is.
To me... you gotta be kidding me.
All this? From the beginning of time? Cavemen, dinosaurs, Romans, space travel, you and me here talking... all for nothing? All b/c some fish grew legs? No way! There has to be meaning to it all. I read the Bible, it is historically correct... we reach out to one another and make a connection 'cause the cosmos expanded? No. There is a plan. There is a creator and you are loved. You are loved."Either the Bible is true or it isn't."
Why?
Some stories of the OT are teaching stories and may not be true.
Only the basis of the message of the Bible is true.
What is the basis of the message?
One God.
One Source of all creation and consciousness.
Energy of Life
(which never dies.)
TWISIJesus shows us how to live forever. Jesus shows us the way out of here.
It is holy science.
"The kingdom of God is within you."
Why did he say this?Either every word of the Bible is true or it can't be trusted.
I believe every word and that's why I trust God.
If I can't even trust His word to be true, how can I trust Him with my life?
He is perfect or He is a liar.
He loves me or He deceives me.
He values me, or He dupes me.
I have to be able to trust all that He says is righteous and true.You do not take the Bible literally do you? I cannot take it literally.
The Bible is intended to be literal and metaphorical. Maybe we differ on the metaphorical scriptures.
How do we find heaven (kingdom of God) within? I do take this literally. Do you?
The verse you're referring to doesn't come to mind. Can you post the scripture?
Luke 17/ 20-21:
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; neither shall they say lo, here or lo there! For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.The pharisees wanted to know where the kingdom of God was, as many today might wonder. "Is it beyond the clouds? In the bottom of a volcano? In the east or the west? Where is this place of splendor?" If you remember the men of the OT building the tower of Babble to reach heaven, as if they could climb there. I believe what Jesus was trying to tell them was that Jesus himself comes to live within your heart. Heaven is the dwelling place of God... when we give God reign over our hearts... we become the dwelling place of God. He is on the throne of our hearts. Is heaven a reality? Yes, we know from various verses it is a real place that can be defined, but I think Jesus was trying to tell them, it's not about going to a destination as much as it is becoming the dwelling place of God that matters most.
You're going to have to use more sentences Kathryn. lol
God is residing where? Heaven is residing where? I am residing where?
What do you mean?
I believe we do not have to *become* the dwelling place of God. I believe we already are the dwelling place of God… (a small portion). We just have to increase our knowing of the truth of this reality.
We are all angels when we sleep.
Good night and thanks for your input. It always enlightens me.I understand Kathryn, but that is where you and I differ. If I came up with my belief system outside of the Bible, then what can I be sure of? You say you believe that we all are filled with God... but based on what? A puzzle you have put together for yourself? What if you were missing a piece? What if you had parts from several different puzzles and you made them work together, but they were never intended to go together. The word of God is infallible. It is inherent, breathed by the spirit of God. Not a tittle or a jot will be changed that was not intended to be there. I do not put my trust in men... or in the works of their hand, I put my faith in God, that He knew, from the beginning of time, the things that would take place here on earth... the paths that men would take, even (and especially) in choosing what would be part of the canon. I cannot create for myself a mystical kind of religion that is based on what I feel, or what makes sense to me. I must base it on something flawless. I have no doubt that God is who He says He is, exactly, and that His word is true.
Maybe He can point me towards what to write that would contribute to society.
To better society, remind poeple of their inner lives… their interests in life and the world, their own creativity, their hopes, dreams and ambitions, their own purposes for being here. Remind them to not waste their lives, their talents or their potentials and all the glorious aspects of their beings AS THEY ARE! Tell them not to give in to destructive habits or the temptations of alcohol, overeating, drugs. A second of pleasure disregards negative effects in the future. The path which leads to the true self is the one to stay on…
something like that…
I would, but writing long articles really irritates my eyes.
The bible was written by humans. And thus is basically as messed up as humans are. However, just because the bible is a mess doesn't necessarily disprove the possible existence of a higher power or of before-life and after-life. It is all still possible.
Btw, my previous post about before-life-after-life was merely one of my more grim speculations. Nothing more.Most of those who have placed their faith in God, believe that the Bible was written by humans, but inspired by God... but yes, we are all sinners, even those who wrote down the words God gave them.
The Bible is a very long history book. The earlier portions were passed down through singing and oral tradition. Much of the NT was tossed aside.
The NT was cast aside? Do you mean b/c some books were not canonized? I would argue it is not a part of the holy Bible if it is not a part of the holy Bible. Do you know what I mean?
Im sorry. Again, I don't know what you're referring to.
Hi Beth. I know you attempt to live a good life and I think that attempt, in and of itself, is the primary good associated with religion. But, Kathryn is right. The Jesus movement was huge. Those who had known him had different ideas as to what his ultimate meaning was. Each collected followers and the movement splintered quite quickly.
With what we now know about the history and evolution of the movement it is difficult to believe that the Bible, as we know it, is anything more than evidence of the result of a grab for power within that movement. A grab sanctioned by the Roman government.
If we assume that what you claim is true then it follows, logically, that any step away from that beginning would be heresy. We should all be Catholics, if Christian.
Anything tossed out by the early church , under the advisement of Constantine, is shrouded in a cloud of suspicion but should not be dismissed, out of hand. The same holds true for what was included. imho.Hello lovely sprite.
My post to Kathryn, I hope, is a good response to your post as well... though about the Catholic part, I would have to disagree. Here is why. Many religions/denominations use the word of God. The Mormons have their own version, but they have changed it some, which changes entire meanings. Take this for example. My husband picked up what he thought was a Bible, but it was the book of Mormon.
He read John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."
He noticed, in his spirit, that the verse lacked the power that it usually had when he read it. This is an incredibly important verse as it proclaims the deity of Christ and proclaims that the word itself is God in written form. But in the book of Mormon, one word of that text is changed. It says "In the beginning, was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was a god." There at the end... "the word was A god." It brought the claim that the word of God was not God, Jehovah... but (A) god. Entire meaning changed.
So who can claim the Bible? David? Paul? The Catholics? Where in God's word does it say that Mary is the mother of Heaven? Where does it say that praying to a saint, dead and gone will yield me a listening ear in Heaven? That is not found in scripture. (No disrespect to Catholics.) Why would God tell us that Heaven is within and that He doesn't even want us searching for a physical place and then create a denomination as if that were the destination? God, the Bible, is about man's relationship with Yahweh. This is what He wants us to take away from the reading of His word.
The Bible belongs to no man... to no sect, no denomination. We belong to God.But. You claim the Bible, as you accept it was handed to us by God. Correct? If so, that was handed to the Nicene Council first. Which was the beginning of the Catholic faith. They chose to label some books scripture and some heresy. There has been a clear and documented succession from that point. If those who began it were the accepted arbiters, why are their successors not?
I'm not attempting to be difficult. I simply think people put too much faith in a book that history shows was compiled by power hungry people. Entire sects who saw things differently were slaughtered for it. Who knows? They could be true martyrs and those who suppressed their books could be the true heretics.I don't think you're being difficult (and thank you for not winking). It is my belief that God knew about the Nicene Council. He knew when and where the dead sea scrolls would be found. He knows about the "papyrus garbage" that they've found recently. Nothing is a surprise to the Alpha and Omega. So my understanding is that what we have is what He wanted us to have. Of course He spoke to men and women throughout the ages. Im sure quite a bit of that was written down. He was/is big into markers... or... memorials to remember the things He has said and done. I don't think we were to discard all memory of Him outside of Gen-Rev. I just think that only what He has allowed in the scriptures to be called His holy word. He said not a tittle or a jot would be changed. I don't picture God having the word "Doh!" in his vocabulary.
Then he must have known about the Quran and the Book of Mormon as well, but with all his power he did nothing to prevent them distracting people from the Bible? How do you explain the people who feel as strongly about the Quran and the Book of Mormon as you feel about the bible? How do you know those books aren't as valid as yours? If you were born to Mormons you'd be a Mormon and the Book of Mormon would seem silly to you, if you were born in Saudi Arabia you'd be a Muslim women unable to drive a car, but you would think it's Allah's plane. If you were raised as a Catholic you would be praying to Mother Mary and it would make perfect sense to you.
How do you reason all of that?And when I take the time to answer you will be satisfied?
Will you be able to comprehend the reason?
Every day it seems someone finds a new way to cast dispersions on God and the Bible.
The difference between discussion and what you and RA do is only enjoyable for the ones who cast those dispersions. As I've told you before, I don't enjoy the game.Okay then you don't want to even attempt to answer the question, that should be a clue to you, something to think about and attempt to properly reason as to why your book is right and there's is wrong.
I find certain arguments boring and repetitive to say the least. And I find certain audiences less than apt at actual discussion. When I come upon individuals that are capable of discussing or even debating subjects that have actual merit, I am happy to participate. Until then, I find it rather like hitting my head repeatedly against a wall. Why would I do that?
You guys never answer the hard questions. You ALWAYS just talk around them.
I'd like to know your answer to why the Bible is correct and the Koran or other religious books are not."You guys" ... You claimed only a few months ago to believe and now we are "you guys". Makes me sad. But I appreciate the question as I feel you might possibly want an honest opinion, not a game and I respect that.
These questions have been asked and answered many times, but I will give it my best shot for you Jane.
What makes the Bible unique from other books considered holy, is the prophesy. Here is a list of 353 prophecies that Jesus had to fulfill in order to be the Messiah, the son of God, the salvation of the world. http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org … ecies.html
There are many wonderful books written about how to live a moral life, but I would not place my faith in any unless I felt certain that the author was worthy and to me, only one who was without sin, could teach me how to live a righteous life.Thank you for answering.
I change my mind a lot because I am confused when it comes to religion. I think about it all the time.I know, you have discussed it before and I totally understand. It still makes me sad. You remind me a bit of myself. I have memory issues at times. My husband and I joke that Im like the girl on 50 First Dates (a movie about a girl with amnesia.)
I see you go thru your changes and though I want to duck at times, I want to put my arm around you and tell you everything's gonna be ok eventually. Hang in there Jane. God loves you. If you can hold on to one truth, hold on to that.
Seems I answered this question a few days ago on another thread.
Religion is man seeking to find God, who is undetectable and indescribable. All religions of the world have this one thing in common, except for Christianity.
Christianity has the Bible, which is the Word of God, which is God seeking man to have a relationship with.But the bible isn't the Word of God; it is the writings and cultural memory of men, interpreted, twisted and carefully chosen by the church to support it's aims instead of a god looking for people He already knows He can have a relationship with.
But the Koran IS the word of god; just ask any muslim.Well - you got one thing right. This God is undetectable.
Have you learned NOTHING from the atheists, Beth?
Your thoughts are only your thoughts. If someone else chooses to think that your thoughts are not valid... for themselves, then that is to be allowed. You cannot expect that just because you "THINK" something, everyone else will fall in line. We all have our own fancies, fantasies, imaginations and ways of understanding. In the end they are just thoughts! THOUGHTS!!!!
PS Have you ever just sat and focused on your love for God for oh, say... about twenty straight minutes????
That is an act of perceiving God directly without all those thoughts bombarding your awareness. It is called meditation... which Jesus taught.
TWI (and certain others) SIWere you under the impression that sharing my beliefs controlled the thoughts of others Kathryn?
I don't believe when I answered the op I was asked to give an Atheists thoughts on the matter, that is their job. I can only give my thoughts on the matter. Any thing else would seem a bit absurd.well, Good! Righteous Athiest's question was interesting to me as well. You saw it as an attack. He is philosophical and often valid. I agreed with his response to what I said:
KLH "And I have learned from you that everything is reality.
Thank You. No more talk about illusion."
RA "But some reality is only reality to you."
This is so true.
What is also true is that there is a reality common to us all.
That's what we have to find.
TWISI
It's after 1 am here. I'm gonna have to hit the sack. See you tomorrow... God willing.
Sweet dreams to you both.One can be religious about very nearly anything.
Christ taught that relationship between man and God was the goal.
If you look at God and you see Him for who He is... you will want to enter into relationship with Him, as He is good, just, merciful and loving. If you look at God and see a distortion of that truth, you will avoid Him. But you are right, religion in and of itself is lacking.its not just lacking i personally believe that it has corrupted the image of God for many people and distorted how God truly is. I believe in God but don't think im religious.
That may be best. I think you're right. Because of religion, many fear God when they should embrace Him and many laugh at Him when they should fear Him.
If only we would seek to understand Him, who He is and what His desires are, we'd be fully better off.
In the OT God rebuked those who had religious festivals, but didn't know Him. And in the NT Jesus rebuked whole churches for their lukewarmness and lack of understanding. Religion yields nothing. Relationship is the key.yes Relationship is the only way to go. Religion doesn't do any good other than teach doctrine that may or not be beneficial.
Ill tell you why I think doctrine is important.
If your child was doing a report on the assassination of JFK, you might not send him to wikipedia, right?
Everyone knows wikipedia is a version of the truth, but it's not 100% reliable.
You could have your kid interview ppl. Some may remember the day JFK died, some may have lived in the same town etc. but still... did they see with their own eyes the things that took place when the shot was fired or have they come to their own conclusions over the years?
I would think talking to an insider would be helpful. An FBI agent in the know, maybe Jackie? But what if they had something to hide?
Wouldn't it be amazing to speak to JFK and to the shooter?
That's what the verse John 1 claims when it says "the word was God." If you want to know who God is, if you want to get into His head to some small extent, there is only one book that claims to be the very word of God.
So would I want to be tossed around by every story I heard? Or would I want a solid foundation I could trust to stand on? There is nothing wrong with doctrine, but you must choose wisely.yes true but there are those people who only take one or two verses from the bible and don't agree or read the entire bible. i was raised on christian beliefs but tend to see so many "christian" claim certain verses of the bible just to benefit them. i also know some Catholics that are way better people than christian. so as i said before i dont claim to be a christian but much rather a follower of Christ.
I think what you've said is right.
And of course, there are probably many better Catholics than protestants.
Denomination does not declare your righteousness.
Denominations are a distraction, if you ask me.Deleted
She is not claiming an affiliation such as the word Christianity might imply, but is instead engaged in a relationship with the son of God.
She seems to me a lovely young woman that should not be attacked for her faith. I hope this is not your plan.Much as I think it is fantastic that you know what she is thinking, I think I would prefer if she answered my question herself. I have never actually found out what this means and am interested to find out.
Why the need to attack me?Did you perceive an attack or just make a counter claim to distract?
I feel a bit protective of her and may view some posts/arrivals as somewhat of a threat.Oh dear. Maybe you should ask hubpages to ban all non believers. Maybe you could define "attack" for me as well.
There's a whole lot of kind and respectful non believers here. I am friends with a lot of them. I just got thru looking at your FB page. According to that page, I would not say you fall under either of those categories. But that's your business. Aysleth's choice to follow Christ is hers.
edit: you went back in a threw a winky in there. You know how much I hate it when you throw winkies in there. If there ever was a bannable offense, it should be that one.Respectful of what exactly? Nice attack though. I am nasty and disrespectful. This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
edit - Maybe you could ask hubpages to ban emoticons that you don't like as well?Worth a shot.
Im deleting your winky in the reprint. lolThere you go. Now you can stop telling me what I should be doing.
Think you have obscured the question I asked well enough now?
Are you insinuating that I buried it? I hadn't even thought of that. If it weren't for the notifications that would bring said poster to the very post you're referring to, I would say that was ingenious. Stop winking.
The purpose of religion? To forward the purposes of spirit -- Love!
Ego, the great corrupter, has changed all this. Ego corrupts everything, religion, science, politics, government, industry, commerce, family, etc. Ego is the attitude of self-concern (opposite of love).
For those who think they are the meat body they wear, this will be completely "Greek" to them.
For those who have grown dissatisfied with the ever expanding greed for things, they will feel this other world -- this True foundation which underpins reality. If this is you, then you might be interested in this short video:
Perceiving Reality
For the rest of you,... bye-bye...I found it.
pretty easy. I know the avatars not to bother to waste the time to read. I just scroll faster.
I'll be honest. I think the tittle and jot were satisfied upon the resurrection. Jesus fulfilled the law he was speaking of. I get what you say about getting what you were supposed to. I just think maybe now is the time this gnostic stuff was supposed to appear. It really couldn't have before, with the Church maintaining such a stranglehold. A lot of it makes more sense than some of Paul's bs.Hey! There is no bs in the Bible! (Pardon my umbrage.)
What about the gnostic stuff?
Also, nice job finding my post. I was afraid it would be lost forever.Oh. Come on. It isn't an offense against God to admit some of that is crap. In today's age, anyway.
God is not a chauvinist or a bigot. So if the Bible is true, and God is 1) just and 2) love... then it would be my assertion that it is up to the reader to seek greater understanding. God *is just and God *is love, so what have some readers missed that others, equally intelligent, have not?
That's right, no just god would be a chauvinist or bigot, that's how we know the bible is BS.
This reminds me of a line out of The Princess Bride. "I would not say such things if I were you."
It is so incredibly unwise to mock God. SO incredibly unwise.I'm afraid you don't understand. One can't mock some that doesn't exist. Can you mock the tooth fairy? One can however mock someone who believes in the tooth fairy.
I wish you luck sir, though it will not factor in.
Actually, I was not referring to hell. It is a fearsome thing to stand before the living God. I will hit the floor on my face, I would imagine. I would hate to meet Him after having spent my life mocking Him for no reason other than I didn't show an interest in video games.
How could you possible know that. Stop making stuff up please.
Same way I know He loves you Radman. Ive read the Bible.
"It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
Heb 10:31So you've read the part that says women should preach to men then?
Do you mean like when Pricilla taught Apollos?
Acts 18:26
"He began to speak out fearlessly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained the way of God to him more accurately."Yet more conflicting information. It's almost like everyone had their own opinion.
It's like the Bible has to be read as a whole to understand it all. You cannot read a few verses and make up your mind about the creator of the universe. Like the saying goes, "It's kind of a long story."
Well, there's the problem. If we assume God is just and God is love then one almost has to accept that some of the Bible is bs. Imo. Because some of the things written cannot be resolved with that assumption.
Good point. One can claim that they believe in a just, loving God, but they then (if honest) have to admit that the bible's description of God something is wrong.
If they can't be reconciled, you need a teacher. A mentor. Then you could ask your questions and say, "This doesn't make sense to me. Show me every time I have doubts, then let me decide."
Are you saying here that if the words can't be successfully reconciled at face value, then you're not understanding them properly, so you have to find someone else to justify or spin it in such a way that it tricks you into thinking it makes sense?
Is the Bible the word of god, or isn't it? Shouldn't it stand or fall on its own merits? You're talking about an all powerful deity here, that you seem to be saying is such a poor communicator that sinful, fallen humans have to try to make his word say something it doesn't in order for it to make sense to someone who has the courage to actually look at it openly. I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. You can't have it both ways.It's funny how it's so simple a child understands, but sometimes we leave that little child somewhere far in the past. Somewhere no one can reach... or at least we like to think so.
Our intellects that we think serve us so well become a little tangled. Suddenly nothing's simple and everything's complicated. When you come to the realization that God is love... that He loves YOU... everything just starts making sense. But if we can't take off that adult hat with all it's angry little tentacles and suckers of doubt, none of it makes sense.
So if so many millions of ppl are able to read the bible and reconcile those things that seem to trip up the doubters, then you have to wonder why. You could, as many have expressed, assume it's delusion. It's a quick and easy answer. Or, you could look at yourself and wonder if there isn't some kind of disconnect. Something that once understood, but now appears to be broken.
You will scoff, I know. Don't worry about it. I'm just offering the clearest explanation I can.This is why you need to indoctrinate them young - right? Once they reach the age of reason - they can see it is not reconcilable.
That actually wasn't an explanation at all. That was avoiding my questions, and you flipping it around to project your perception of me onto my shoulders. Would you like to try again?
That is your perception of my answer... and it is my perception of mankind as a whole, not just you.
Contrary to what you may believe about me, Beth, I am actually interested in discussions and answers and evidence. When you approach this with accusations, judgements and word games, we're never going to get anywhere. I'm sorry for that, because sometimes I actually truly appreciate what you have to say. I don't think, however, that you can say the sane, and that's a shame. It's unlikely we will ever be able to get past our differences of opinion to actually communicate.
Im trying very hard to communicate. I apologize if I am falling short. I am sharing my beliefs and my understanding to the best of my ability. I am not playing games with you, though if you started winking a lot, I might.
I am being myself and if you can come to a certain comfort level with that, you may not feel as defensive.Just curious, why do you think I'm defensive?
I'm trying to get past some of the contentious conversations we've had in the past and move forward, and I don't understand where you're getting defensiveness from?I guess b/c I am answering quite honestly and you see it as some kind of ruse.
I am not playing word games. My answers are quite sincere.I know what you think of me based on what you've previously told me, and you think that I'm damaged and have never said a single nice thing to you, I'm rise, etc. Based on that knowledge, having you say in response to me statement that you were projecting what you thought of me onto me that it was simply a projection of your projection seemed like a word game to me. If that was incorrect, I apologize.
Please understand there is a LOT of room for misunderstanding in this medium. So it makes me nervous when you say you know what I think of you. I don't think we've had enough actual conversation to ever iron anything out. As far as being damaged, I don't know a soul who isn't... and if they appear to be undamaged, they are either magical, their time has not come yet, or they've done a fine job of masking their pain. About 15 years ago I came to the realization that no one is getting out of this world unscathed.
From my perspective, there's a difference between surviving traumatic events and weathering storms in your life and being damaged. Damaged seems to imply that there is something wrong with you that makes you different or less-than "normal" people, and I see it being tossed at non believers often. If that was not your intent, I apologize again. You have said those things to me on more than one occasion, so I thought it was a fair representation of what you thought of me. There was nothing to counter balance that with for comparison.
I understand. I don't know if I've ever used the word damaged to describe you, that seems a bit odd, but I can totally see how one might think that was some sort of superiority judgement. Not at all a pleasant thought for anyone. It would make one kind of terse to say the least.
But damaged to me, is a good word. Life beats the hell out of us, though hell may look like first world problems for some and third world problems for others. Either way... we hurt. We get hurt. We all find ways to cope with the pain.
I've tried to share with you before that I am so sorry that what should have been a lifeline for you was a rod of abuse. So much pain... it's unbelievable what ppl endure. I have my own pain. Of course I don't share it all here. I made the mistake of sharing one heartache, I don't think this is a great forum to share your hurts. lol
I do wish you well. I do pray for you, I hope you will not find that insulting, but loving. Maybe if you were still engaged in prayer, you would do the same for me. I'd like to think so.
So, it's because we are broken because we use our angry adult minds. Adult minds are not angry and if God wanted us to not use our adult minds he would have made us with the minds of children (not fully formed yet).
Listen to yourself telling us to not think at all.
The truth is most people never read the bible, they have others read specific parts because if they read it themselves they'd be atheists.That would be a shame if you didn't think.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste... and other slogans.I believe your response here is exactly what JM was referring to. Games.
I will be honest with you. Your responses elicit little else than this effort from me. I would prefer to have real discussion, but your motives are obvious to me. I don't have much time, but consider this as an example of my perception of our usual back and forth.
Me: I believe God loves us all.
Rad: Not the slaves.
Me: We've been over this many times, you do not accept my response. I have posted verses that prove that to the contrary.
Rad: God wipes out whole races.
Me: We have discussed this too. I thought you did not believe in God.
Rad: He also believes in making a woman marry her abuser.
Me: Rad, I've answered all these questions for you. We all have. What is the purpose in rehashing the same 3 arguments everyday?
Rad: So you wont answer the questions? I guess that means you agree with me. Thank you for admitting you agree with me.
Do you see? It is, to me anyway, a game that you play. You do not want answers. You do not want discussion. You want to win an argument and it seems this is the argument that matters most to you. That's why I avoid you, b/c is is so elementary and repetitive.It's funny because you never really answer or even look at the problems these questions put forth. You admit that we should think like children and so since I think this is a bad idea I attempt to help you to think by asking you questions that you don't want to look at. It's like trying to help a child with his homework, we ask them questions that will hopefully lead them to the correct answers. You seem to think we are here to listen/learn from you, and if we aren't we shouldn't be here.
So you are the child doing his math problems as you have admitting that you think like a child and I am the adult trying to guide you to the correct answer and then I'll show you how to check your answer. But to do this you must stay focused and answer my questions, unless of course you have ADHD in which case we can take breaks.
Now, I asked you a question a while back (may have been another form) but I didn't see the response. Would you kill someone if God told you to? I ask because you've said the God of the bible did this often and loyal followers would kill if told by God to do so. It's a serious question, so focus.There in lies the problem. Those with beliefs think they are right so feel compelled to attempt to convince others to agree with their beliefs. Everyone wants to 'guide' others to what they believe are the correct answers without bothering to listen to the other person, or allow them their beliefs; while demanding the right to their own.
And, still we wonder why the world is so messed up.It's not the beliefs I have a problem with. People can believe whatever they want. It irks me when people with beliefs go on to assert that their beliefs are absolute facts without evidence, but that's just me. But it's problematic when people use their beliefs to justify actions that infringe on other people's rights.
I don't try to convince people atheism is true, at least not intentionally. I don't care. I'm interested in knowing what they believe and why, and discussing the facts and the evidence and everything related.OK. But, if you approach me and tell me you are the adult, I am the child and I should follow your lead you will understand if I roll my eyes?
And, maybe, laugh behind your back?Absolutely, but if you were to use the metaphor on me first (or at least imply or allude to it) will you understand if I roll my eyes and mock you first?
Well, I would consider it incredibly childish. I'm not really into the tit for tat thing. But it is a free world.
I'm not sure I would automatically see it as tit for tat in order to continue a metaphor that the other person introduced. It may be, but I don't think I'd automatically write it off as such. But I concede that it could appear that way, or even could be that way.
Sure, roll your eyes. I've not talked to you that way because you have not made comments like these.
"If they can't be reconciled, you need a teacher. A mentor."
"You need a teacher... stop winking."
"I am not playing games with you, though if you started winking a lot, I might."
"I am not playing word games. My answers are quite sincere."
"That would be a shame if you didn't think. A mind is a terrible thing to waste... and other slogans."
"I personally would let someone else speak for math."
"I don't know if I've ever used the word damaged to describe you, that seems a bit odd… But damaged to me, is a good word."
"But if we can't take off that adult hat with all it's angry little tentacles and suckers of doubt, none of it makes sense."
"Me: Rad, I've answered all these questions for you. We all have. What is the purpose in rehashing the same 3 arguments everyday?
Rad: So you wont answer the questions? I guess that means you agree with me. Thank you for admitting you agree with me.
Do you see? It is, to me anyway, a game that you play. You do not want answers. You do not want discussion. You want to win an argument and it seems this is the argument that matters most to you. That's why I avoid you, b/c is is so elementary and repetitive."
Tells others they need a teacher, says she doesn't play word games and does in the same post, and then the next and then the next in a effort to avoid conversations. Says she's never called JM damaged and then says we are all damaged because she is damaged, then tells us to stop being adults so we can understand the bible as she does. Then makes an immature fake conversation and claims it's evidence that I'm playing games.
So if she claims we need teachers to be like her and them claims to think like a child and behaves as such, I'll talk to her as a child. If you talk to someone as a child they will respond as a child, we just don't know if it will be a good or bad child. I imagine it will be something like "A mind is a terrible thing to waste... and other slogans."
Just trying to make a point. When someone acts and pretends and admits to being like a child, it's easy to treat that person as such.
Are you suggesting that I let someone else speak for God? Is that truly advisable?
I personally would let someone else speak for math.
Not me. They get me too confused. I have to look how it's done and figure it out myself. I was an ace at math, in school. My teacher was sooo proud and I didn't have the heart to tell her she hadn't taught me a thing.
lol. You're awesome. I am not fit to tie your tennis shoes.
What my point was in my response to... was it Radman? Uh... I think sometimes we forget to simplify. There are answers, but if we have a hard time with the fundamentals, we'll never be able to grasp the full picture. You are no doubt, very intelligent, but you can't skip over the basics. Most might think the basics are John 3:16 and so on. But to me, you gotta start with the question, "What if this is real?" and take it from there. It might clear away a few of those gnostic cobwebs and open a few window... let a little light in... and a bunch of other metaphors.I would think the thing to begin with was......What type of God is worthy of worship? Then, if the interpretation deviates from those attributes, you either think you are interpreting wrong or, if you believe that the deviation is its true nature.....you refuse to participate.
First you have to start with "Is God real?". No need to worry about the "What if" as that's pascals wager. If one decides there is a God then he/she can decide which version seems right if any. You've decided your God is loving and just, but the God of the OT is none of those things, so you tell us not to think about that, ignorance is bliss I guess.
Instead of having to start with "what if this is real" why don't you start in a neutral position of "how do I found out whether or not this is true" and line up all the evidence and examine all different positions and ideas? Doesn't starting with the potential of it being real beg the question? Doesn't that show bias?
He shows that he is just AND loving throughout the Bible. We may not consider some of the events in the Bible as God being just but when you look at the greater picture .....He sent His only Son to die for everyone....even those who hated Him...thats love . On another scale our children are always telling us we are not fair or just when we discipline them in ways that we know will help them in the long run. Al A lot of the things God did before he sent His Son were just in a time where lawlessness and wickedness were rampant.. Worse than today if you can imagine it
"On another scale our children are always telling us we are not fair or just when we discipline them in ways that we know will help them in the long run. "
Do you think, then, that Lot's wife learned from being turned to salt? The children teasing Elijah that were then ripped apart by bears? The firstborn of Egypt, murdered for the (God created) actions of the nobility (murder being defined as killing of the innocent)?
Seems to me that your god's "discipline" is used more to scare a third party into obedience rather than to help someone. Like beating Johnny (to death!) because Jerry was a bad little boy.Only one son? What a weenie.
Died? You mean died for 3 days and then came back to life by majick - surely? Hardly a big sacrifice. 2nd best death for 3 days out of billions of years.
This stuff only works on uneducated peasants. Sorry.
What goes on in the mind of someone who does't think beating slaves and killing non-virgins isn't BS? This simply amazes me.
So many times it has been explained to you about the laws of the land, but you choose to ignore the fact that they had laws back then as we do now. Why not consider (again) the whole Bible and not just the parts that you think prove your point... like some NT verses concerning slavery.
Colossians 4:1 ESV
Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
That's the thing about trying to discuss these things with you. You do not listen. You just ignore then bring up the same incorrect arguments over and over again.Oh, does it say somewhere not to keep slaves? The laws of the land? Really? So God shows up and tells people what to do, but doesn't mess with the laws of the land? Too funny! Have you read that book yet?
Ay yi yi. What is all this to you? Either study the bible until you understand it and then discuss or stop wasting your time. The things you say do not make sense. It's like you picture this as a form of entertainment. It is not a form of entertainment. It is my faith. If you don't understand/appreciate it... you've got to find a new form of entertainment.
I was walking by a church last Sunday.
Suddenly a bunch of people started pouring out.
I asked one of them, "Is Mass out?"
He said, "No, but your hat's on crooked."Keep working on it. This particular joke is literally almost a 100 years old.
Oh no, I got it... kinda proud of myself, kinda ashamed.
Be proud, girl, be proud. I just figured this thread needed some lightening up.
At least 2,500 Gods known through history of man. Even serpent worship, the oldest recorded worship. The real question is, what do you mean by God?
The universe makes fun of us all.
Why exactly would the universe make fun of us all?
Maybe it's insecure.The above is from a series I just discovered at Netflix. If you like Zen and humor, it might be worth a watch. The show is called Life.
Fairly Legal, 2011–2012, just might keep me occupied for awhile. Thanks!
hey! I watched that show. It's only 2 seasons... apparently the writers had a writer strike during it and it kinda lost what had made it special, but I still really liked it. It was the lead actor that made it so good. Good music too as I recall.
Ya we are all uneducated like saying that dying for 3 days is an easy death....what does the amount of time that he was dead have anything to do about it...His death however, meanging while still alive being crucified His body stopped functioning, is the sacrifice He gave. Would you get sacrificed for people that hated you and spat on you?? Easy to say its not a big sacrifice.
Ya we are all uneducated like saying that dying for 3 days is an easy death....what does the amount of time that he was dead have anything to do about it...His death however, meanging while still alive being crucified His body stopped functioning, is the sacrifice He gave. Would you get sacrificed for people that hated you and spat on you?? Easy to say its not a big sacrifice.
Body stopped function, which function, eating talking and having sex? Venitlator patients do none of this. Or is it heart beat, doesn't matter either.
If staying put for 2 days is enough and if the reward is greater glory and eternal life who wouldn't want to do it? Isn't it what the martyrs did?
Hated?? The christians says the reward is only for those who believe him, so the ones who hated and spat is eternally damned, isn't it?He did it so those people would have a chance, change their wicked ways. For those living for the rest of time, for ALL to have a chance....There was a thief on the cross next to Him who repented right there and right before his death Jesus said your sins are forgiven , a testament to the ease of having all your sins forgiven after a life full of it...
So he didn't it only for those people who will follow him?
Where indeed is the sacrifice? What did he sacrifice? 2 days from an eternity? Where was his soul, by the way, then? Was it dead too?His life, He did it for ALL people to have a chance at redemption....look at the world around us , filled with wickedness... I know Im in need of redemption. Its like saying "all you have to do is follow the law and you wont be arrested. All you have to do is follow Jesus and your forgiven from judgment like following laws of the people and you won't be judged. He wants us to have a better life on earth too, all his speeches and commandments lead to a better life if we were to truly follow them...look at them. Don't steal, don't murder, don't covet, which leads to anger and other wicked things. no ones perfect and God knew we would never be able to follow his laws perfectly so he sacrificed Himself. It doesn't mean you can't ever sin because that's impossible, but Jesus gave us a way to redemption. That's what I believe I have no hate towards anyone who doesn't;t believe in it. So believe what u believe and Ill do the same.
RED HERRING.
I will state it ones more so that you can listen.
What did jesus sacrifice?
Wasn't he "sacrficing" only for those who follow him? Those who spat at him has no redemption unless they ask his forgiveness and follow him. So on what basis you say that he died for those who hate him. Those who hate him has no redemption.
And I guess by your observation, we believers are all poor also seeing as we're peseants for believing in God. Education does not garentee you the truth.
Read the Bible and see how truly amazing rather than embarrasing it was. He knew we would never change our ways so He sacrificed Himself out of Love..... To God per the Bible He gave us freedom of choice , and salvation was earned not simply given. It would have never been earned so He gave Himself for us.Not silly, magnificent. Yes he could have just made us robots and said ok all is fine and forgiven but life as we know it would not b the same, and God didnt create man that way. We tear each other apart when tells us to love , when the world is like this how can people not be judged just as we judge people for their wrOng doings
Read the Bible and see how truly amazing rather than embarrasing it was. He knew we would never change our ways so He sacrificed Himself out of Love..... To God per the Bible He gave us freedom of choice , and salvation was earned not simply given. It would have never been earned so He gave Himself for us.Not silly, magnificent. Yes he could have just made us robots and said ok all is fine and forgiven but life as we know it would not b the same, and God didnt create man that way. We tear each other apart when tells us to love , when the world is like this how can people not be judged just as we judge people for their wrOng doings
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