Without the Jewish religion Christianity would have gone the way of so many savior beliefs, relegated to a back room, sitting on a museum storage shelf, collecting dust. And if it were not for one single man, a mortal man and a Jew, Christianity would be on that shelf, molding with the ages, but comforted in the cold embrace of Horus, another savior god born of a virgin. Paul of Tarsus, a Jew with Roman citizenship, the Father of Christianity was that man.
However, it may also be said that without the Christian need for and dependence on Judaism for credibility, Yahweh would be on that shelf seated next to Aten, his predecessor and Aten’s son Akhenaton, perhaps, the original son of god. In the deep sleep of antiquity, I am sure that each recalls the days of glory, remembrances of such power and creativity, of such singular acclaim and adoration.
Yahweh (YHVH), the god of the Jews was probably a volcano, as in Mount Sinai and, in this, can we understand the stories of Moses and the smoke and the fire from a simple people in fear, dread and awe..
Abraham is the patriarch of Jews and from which, Judaism, Christianity and Islam sprang. That all three religions claim a single heritage and yet define themselves in opposing ways speaks to the ambiguity and lack of truth in such a claim.
The story of Abraham, the first foundation of modern religions, is a story, first, an unfounded story and second, a story that is now considered to be a simple construct by a people desirous of creating a history that would provide a claim to land and credibility of being, much, as the modern State of Israel.
The Pentateuch, the vessel for such stories, to include the myth of a godly creation of the universe and the Exodus, was written around the fourth century BCE by a people craving for justification and doing so, not out of knowledge of history, but out of a need to create a history.
Perhaps, one of the most compelling stories of Moses and the Jews, which includes an understanding of the times and an unprecedented insight into human nature, was put forward by Sigmund Freud in his 1939 book, “Moses and Monotheism”.
“Moses only led his close followers into freedom during an unstable period in Egyptian history after Akhenaten (ca. 1350 BC) and that they subsequently killed Moses in rebellion and later combined with another monotheistic tribe in Midian based on a volcanic God, Jahweh. Freud explains that years after the murder of Moses, the rebels regretted their action thus forming the concept of the Messiah as a hope for the return of Moses as the Saviour of the Israelites.
From the manufactured savior of the Israelites, in the 'resurrection of Moses, to the manufactures of the New Testament, Jesus Christ, emerges and the myth continues.
Moses, in himself, is a questionable figure and may even be a construct from the 4th century, but, certainly, with much veracity, Akhenaten lived and is the Father of Monotheism, the god Aten. It can even be construed that Aten continued to exist and evolved into Sol Invictus of, which Constantine was a High Priest 1000 years later. Aten now is still worshiped by Christians, as Sunday, a church day, is the day to worship the sun, Aten. This was imposed by Constantine from the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE.
Gods exist because Man has the capacity to reason that gods exist. They answer the questions of being, as Man, to date, is the only animal with the ability, to ask a question. More importantly, it is we who answer the question that we asked.
10,000 years ago or so, we began to ask questions and we began to answer ourselves, the best way we knew how and, as we are often wrong now, we were completely wrong then, but it was a start, not an ending.
Well, that was good stuff... I think. I'm not sure I got the point.
To say that Christianity would be on a shelf without Judaism is kind of an understatement.
It's like saying bread wouldn't taste as good without flour.
Like a kid *with a brain is smarter than a kid without one.
What is the point?
The question was, what do the Jews offer, as in a chosen (godly) people?
The overall answer, with reference the Post, is superstition and self aggrandizement, as Jews, Christianity and Islam rely on same for credibility. Evidently I failed to bring that through. I will do better with, The New Testament and Egyptian mythology, one and the same.
Maybe b/c of the punctuation usage, I am still not understanding the explanation.
Are you saying all Jews have to offer is superstition and self aggrandizement?
The topic deals with the aspect that the Jews are a self proclaimed chosen people, to that a theistic, perspective. The secular accomplishments by the Jewish people have nothing to do with their theism, other than a bond, which is culturally,enormously strong. Perhaps, you are trying to read more into the piece than what is there.
So you do not hold the Bible as the word of God?
Most interesting topic. While I believe that the bible is the word of God, people misinterpret its contents. In my opinion, God could not be God if he were partial to one group of people. The faithfulness of Abraham allowed God to bless his seed (Hebrews) up to the coming of the Messiah, Jesus. The Jews were special until the messiah and the establishment of a new covenant based on faith in Christ, which was available now to Jew and Gentile alike. Encouraged by current fundamentalist thought particularly in America, we are being taken advantage of by the Israeli Government with the idea that scripture says that anything that Israel does politically or militarily is beyond reproach.
What bothered me about the OP's post was his constant use of the term "self appointed" or "self declared" chosen ppl. (What ever the term was he used.) The Bible makes it very clear that God Himself declares the Jews as His chosen ppl. The fact that he does not hold the Bible as holy explains that. Now I can move on.
There is also a little discomfort contained in there about the continued existence of Israel. I wonder what that is about.
The bible didn't write anything, people did and those people were Jews. They wrote themselves to be the chosen people, self appointed chosen people.
The transformational nature of Christ makes us all, believer and non-believer, the children of God. God says that He will abandon no one - that includes the Jews. There is no preference remaining, except a repentant heart. All, even the unbeliever, will come to know Jesus and God, the Father - all will kneel before the power of Heaven, no matter who.
Let them chew on that one for a while.
You sound like an Islamist or a radicalized Muslim. In keeping with the history of Christianity would you set afire those who refuse to kneel.
You have added nothing to the topic, but continue to spew your vile, your hatred and your extreme lack of knowledge. Wallow in the shallowness of your belief, but please save the rest of us from your tripe and find a choir to preach to.
... good morning my friend ... regarding akhenaton ... have you considered the reverse ... with all the gods of egypt and the warfare caused and allowed by amenhotep when he changed his name ... why did amenhotep become akhenaton ... maybe moses won him over to the one God ...
Good morning doc---Was beginning to worry about you, have not heard from you.
There is no historical indication that the two had any personal contact. Yes, the blood that was spilled by Akhenaten was considerable when he over threw the polytheism of Egypt and even more so upon his death and the Ra's and Osiris's returned. This is historically and currently the nature of such beliefs. My god will always be bigger and better than yours. He told me so.
Interesting question, as to why Amenhotep became the son of god or the living spirit of Aten, since the Pharaoh's were already considered deities in their own right. Probably it was not enough and he wanted more, as many of such rank will ascribe to. It was not enough to be an earthly god, but a god of the heavens was even better. Since it would have been obvious that he was not the sun, the omnipotent force at the time, the spirit or son of the almighty was doable and he had the power to decree it.
This is common to the case of dictators, as is evidenced with Uncle Joe Stalin. Uncle Joe proceeded differently however, he simply dismissed the traditional theisms and enshrined himself, government, as an omnipotent force. in effect creating a secular deity,
There is the fundamental difference between Jesus and Ahknaten, no Jesus leading an army to slaughter competitors.
Now I know that I just woke up and coffee is still in the pot... but I aint see no vile hatred spewing in that post...
Maybe the Lord is calling. One feels "beat-up" by a few sensible sentences, it may be called conviction.
The Lord chastens his own... there is hope!!!
Perhaps your studies of Christianity are incomplete.
... all are creations of God ... but all are not the children of God ... one must be born again ...
(And I don't know if I concur with a lot of what you say. )
The scripture being scrutinized in this fashion, is a stumbling block.
It is given for the scrutiny of self. It is the bar, or it isn't.
If one looks at scripture and sees mythology, he will, without doubt, prove that to himself, time and time again. Principalities and powers in high places are smart. They know what one wants to see/hear.
In contrast, God considers what one needs to hear/see. The rule/history is actually not up for debate. It is what it is. We must choose if it makes enough sense to seek him or not. If dark materials scream a louder "truth" in the ear, then the choice is made. Who suffers? Surely not the man to the left or right.
The Jewish religion was given to the Jews. But when Jesus came, and said, "About face!" They missed the party. The Gentile was then invited. No longer a Jewish faith. Now a Jesus faith, based from the original plan God made for the Jew, who rejected.
Jesus said, "Now come THIS way. Follow my commands." Many of them called him a liar.
Now tell me... Would you follow a perceived liar?
I am sure that you are happy with your thinking and well you should.
I'm glad for the observation and approval.
Should I take that to mean that you'd rather not discuss your matter with me?
If so, I do understand your choice. No hard feelings about it.
Your response felt like a shooing pat on the head.
I have been accused of being an arrogant #$@!% and I can understand that opinion. In, any case, I will respond to and defend anything I write. If you wish to comment directly to or question the credibility of what I say, I welcome it. Although I feel very confident in me and my knowledge, I am always willing to learn or to teach, as the case may be. Being human I do not possess a universal intelligence to say categorically, that this or that is an absolute truth, as you cannot. So, it is a matter of, for me, reason, research, objectivity and conclusion and then more questions. I do not deal with others who simply want to evangelize and not deal with the question or assertion.
The main problem that people run across from my assertions is the fact that I use the bible's many books as my only reference. It is used solely because the conversations that I enter, here, are about Christianity. There is no other resource.
Arrogance does not move me at all. I am grounded in something much bigger.
The Christian questions asked of me, require biblical answers.
Truth is my motivation. Not evangelizing. I am not attempting to "win souls for the Lord". I usually come to say what the truth of the bible is. That's it.
However, I am perceived as evangelical. I guess it's no biggie. It's just misinterpretation.
Your words are far from the truth, they would indicate a simple belief in one of a 1000 gods. They contain no more truth than the one who believes the world is carried on the back of a turtle. Reasonably, your god or gods simply do not exist. However, if you find comfort and purpose in that belief then you should continue to believe, because without it you would be lost and that would benefit no one.
And yet it is not the turtle or the lightening bolt throwers that we debate. They tend to pass into history. We debate the personal God whose desire for humanity is for it to be with Him, so much so as to become human and sacrifice Himself for its sake. It is the God of the entirety of Nature, not just the one in storms or the sun, that we debate, why? Is it because that God and the curiosity with which He imbued humanity are irreconcilable in the minds of those who would limit their thinking just to the material? Is it because faith in the Judeo-Christian God, creator of everything - including space-time and super-strings - competes with a narrow perception of life? It is easy to dismiss the big turtle and the hairy thunder god but what about a God that is immaterial yet omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent?
For the literalists, read John 16:12-13. These are New Testament times.
Well, I believe your response to be a big ol lie, but what does it matter? My opinion is no heavier than yours. vice versa
We pull equally in opposite directions.
My God is around (I told everyone that I have seen him all my life.) No way he's not.
Unfortunately, some do not get the confrimations.
No matter how many times i am called a liar. Facts do not change. I guess we'll have to just wait it out.
I am sure that you have seen and even talked to your god on multiple occassions . You are, indeed, favored and blessed.
Have you heard of personality types who can hallucinate(or has a very low threshold for) and be normal? That is only one particular personality type not possible for all humans especially for those who belong to the opposite spectrum.
I wonder what the count would be, at this point in time, of the ppl who "hallucinate."
I don't know especially considering modern society frowns upon such people. But some religious leaders have such personalities, especially the ancient ones, where hallucinations where considered as divine communication and was even encouraged.
You might have heard stories where people see or talk to loved departed ones but not many can do that.
If you count only the Jews and Christians in the world today it comes out like this.
Jews: 13-14 million
Christians 2.8 billion
That's just this years count. You'd have to look down throughout all time to see how many ppl have "hallucinated."
That's a lot of hallucinat-ers.
Hallucinations are not the topic. We are speaking God. I know they are one in the same to you, but I am not swayed by that opinion.
I don't know Cg, I'm thinking it's an interesting topic.
There must be some *really engaging speakers out there that keep a third of the earth mesmerized... and have since the beginning of time.
That's a lotta Kool-aid.
What are you saying? That a lot of people can be suckered?
I'm saying you must surely think a lot of ppl can be suckered. It seems I have more faith in mankind than you do... and I don't have a lot of faith in mankind.
Odd that you claim that because a lot of them believe nonsense this is something to crow about. Selective faith in mankind as long as it supports your irrational beliefs huh?
The McDonalds argument.
I have not heard of the McDonald's argument. Does their coffee represent the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone?
No. Lots of people believe it therefore it is good. This is the faulty argument you were making was it not?
Wait 'till the Muslims out number you - then what will you say?
I'm not saying ppl should believe in God b/c a lot of other ppl do.
I feel like you're not "with me" here.
Someone said (I don't even remember who now) that Cg's relationship with God could only be a hallucination. I'm wondering what kind of meds, substance abuse, or blow to the head might cause a woman to think she was in a relationship with someone. But then it's not just Cg, is it? It's billions of ppl since the begining of time. Hence the, "That's a lot of Kool aid" remark.
I s'pose if you're going to compare McDonald's to the church, then Morgan Spurlock would be the Atheist. Huh. I'm a big fan of Morgan Spurlock. I love a good prison 'stache.
Yes - billions of people have swallowed the kool aid then. Like you have. Must be good then huh?
There is a profound drop in the world Muslim population about to begin.
See??? I actually pushed out a tear on this one. My side hurts now.
You are the most laid back, enthusiastic person I almost know. I bet you have a lot of fun with your gf's.
I have a blast with all I encounter. I am a big advocate of comedy. My dad was great at it. I studied. He was very witty and it was a magnet for me.
Thus, the reason I move to the edge of my seat when "she" comes around. I know it will be natural and funny with no pressure. "She" who doesn't like to be singled out, reminds me so much of the genius I patterned after.
I am so impressed. The Lord covers all bases. We don't have to be stuffy, snobby, nerdy, boring, finger-pointers to be loved by God.
It is apparent that you know the truth too.
Head of the class!!! I absolutely LOVE your voice.
I got my glass! Cheers!!! Never "thirst" again.
Oh! I wonder how they reconcile that one.
I can hear it now...
Jesus is a liar! I'm ALREADY thirsty! Lol...
We will only be "reasonable" when it suits the other team. Don't go rufflin' feathers.
Hallucination is the topic when we talk about people who can "speak to god".
Don't get it twisted. He's not over for coffee and doughnuts ('cept for Thursdays. Lol...)
It's a heart conversation. Hallucinations happen in the head.
It happens only in the head. Heart doesn't take part in any conversation, it only pumps.
If the hallucination is about vishnu, does it also belong to the "heart"?
I do not know what Vishnu can do; my God is able.
Unfortunately, you have no idea what the heart can do...
Try vishnu then you will know he is no different and is just as able if not more.
Your god is able because you only know about your god and confirmation bias.
Unfortunately you have no idea about heart, try this, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart for a starter.
Ooooohhhhhh... wiki-heart is not the same. I thought I told you...
As a note: evangelists are shunned here. Be careful.
There is no other heart, the emotions you call as heart is a property of brain and hallucinations occur in the brain. Only the brain cannot distinguish it from reality.
Then why are you here, you preach but don't substantiate and say you can't prove.
Now why would I believe you? I mean, what are your authority qualifications???
You seem to be failing in the "heart" category already.
Goto my website.
You can easily prove it just find somebody whose heart is transplanted or somebody whose emotional part is damaged.
I now realize the Godly issue...
No one may fix a damaged emotional part. And it's the WORST kind. Broken emotions can bring out the killer in many individuals. It silently and secretly may fester until all one's classmates are lying on the floor bleeding from gaping wounds.
There are so many
Have you any artichokes on your website??? Have they been beeting??? Lol...
Again off topic. Deception?
Emotional part of brain in case you didn't understand.
You cannot make the connection; realizing that you spoke about damaged emotional parts and transplanted hearts??? I spoke the center of artichokes, (also called a heart; and you have no stern letter to the artichoke people for calling something with no blood or vessels a heart???)
Reasoning takes practice and lack of bias. Keep practicing...
The heart of man is invisible and it affects society more than the bloody, vessel-laden, beating thing ever could.
The Lord wants to clean it up. Fore somebody gets hurt...
What are you talking about? Heart is invisible? I have never heard such nonsense. You asked me how I can say emotions are from brain and I said you can prove it by finding a heart transplanted person or a person with damaged emotional part of brain. I did not notice that "brain" didn't come in type till you responded with that nonsense.
I didn't ask you how you know emotion originates from the brain. It's a silly question to me...
No one gets a headache when they see their s/o with another lover; no one gets butterflies in their head when they are about to meet the love of their lives; no one is familiar with a severe heaviness in their head when tragedies strike...
It ALL originates just BELOW the transplantable thing you call heart and right BEHIND the stomach. The very core of you...
Where emotion lives. Where instinct moves you. Where God speaks.
This core is biblically referenced as "heart" and it seems just about where their language meets ours. We all may understand center. The ARTICHOKE speaks volumes.
It is not behind the stomach but above separated by the diaphragm. It is because the heart rate changes in response to emotions that one feel it originates in the heart. Because the ancient ignorant people didn't know a thing and thought brain was for keeping the blood conditioned they said heart is the center of emotions just like they said earth is flat. Believers brain may be just for ornamentation as you imply but in normal humans brain is what generates emotions and all thoughts.
Such emotions that are mistaken as 'god speak' is called hallucination. It occurs in schizhotypal personality disorder and schizophrenic people.
And to Christians in a more precise manner.
You guys are getting it!!!
Christians are just another bunch of gullible, no difference. Are you telling me that Christian's brain is only for ornamentation while other believers use it?
Not strange that I missed these completely. Gullible seems a demeaning term.
Are you telling me, again that Christians cannot think?
Lol... it is such a funny notion. I mean, I'm Christian, and I think all the time! Lol...
Biblical knowledge is encrypted. The thief is lurking at the window... Do you know what that means? Only faith in Jesus unlocks the DOOR... the only valid entrance.
It is pointless to try any other understanding of him. What appears gibberish to the masses, lies a whole world of clarity. Faith is key.
Would you like for me to try another language? I got about 14 to choose from. Lol...
That was what you implied.
Talk about being not gullible! !!
Believing charlatans blindly is certainly not the sign of "thinking".
Oh you've lost the game jomine. She has 14 languages she can supply the gibberish in. How can you compete with that?
As a side note, I wonder if she counts gibberish as a separate language?
You'd have to give me more on what you assume my implication to be. I haven't the gift of mind reading.
And not believing a word of charlatan speak; I follow the spirit of God. The "charlatan" ensures that I am on track.
The "blind" cannot see. I see fine. But I guess you have started to confess with thy mouth, that the charlatan was on to something when he pointed out that the "blindness" of which you speak, is of a differed sort... be careful to not disappoint the masses with your new revelations. They do not like it when their children utter the mind of God.
You HAVE been reading your bible!!! the bible calls it belly too!!!
I am pleased to see that you can "divide" one portion. you're gonna have to keep at it though, if you want to learn of him. But you are off to a great start.
+1 Rad Man!!!
What else do you expect in a book written by charlatans for the gullible?
They tried to call Jesus a charlatan. now look... we speak of him; calling him a King all this time later!
He is worthy.
Some DO call him King, just as they did when he lived (if he really did). And some do not, just as they did then.
Though I do not get your point; I'd like to say that I did say WE call him king.
But our opinions on the matter weigh very little.
OUR means all of us
He is a simple fiction just like "king" Arthur.
Charlatans are those who made that fiction.
Well Sir, the king is the king if NO ONE acknowledges it. So, not even the yea sways truth.
Indeed, lost, Jomine. Many, many moons ago... but that certain blindness you now acknowledge makes it difficult to NOT have to be told.
And yes! "Gibberish" is my FIRST language. But certain of us here, will NEVER understand it, being blind and all.
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