A Reason To Believe

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   A.Villarasaposted 9 years ago

   The geography and topography  of human existence, like that of the moon, (if one looks at it literally) has been pock-marked by the consequential impact of the  credulity and incredulity of the human mind.
   
   So what is the human mind exactly?  According  to naturalists/materialists/physicalists the human mind is but the result of biochemical reactions that occurs in the dendro-axonal structure of the brain. Purely physical processes that  leads to consciousness. Somehow, I think, something got lost in that translation.
   
   The translation from purely physical processes to consciousness has a significantly more important consequence, than just  those pockmarks,that now dot the human llandscape based purely on the physical interpretation of human existence.
   
   Those pockmarks, are roughtly hewn and their edges so sharp, that if one is not careful enough, could lacerate and eviscerate. Thus the value of smoothing those rough edges with spiritual perseveration. Perseveration that could lead to a reason to believe.

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      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Is "spiritual perseveration" the same as making up stories and believing them without having the faintest idea if they are true or not? 
      
      How will that smooth the assumed rough edges on the assumed pockmarks?

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      1. 60

         A.Villarasaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         The perception  that human existence is purely physical is  as roughly hewn as anything that has been put upon the altar of ideas. Rough  because it was formed on and around the edges of human consciousness, not on its center, where the  formulation of ideas is more settled and secure.
         
         The non-physical human mind is what settles and secures  effectively the rationale of whatever bio- chemically occurs in the human brain

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            wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            As always, I ask for evidence of that.
            
            But is  "spiritual perseveration" the same as making up stories and believing them without having the faintest idea if they are true or not?  That WAS the question you (failed to) reply to.

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               mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Reading the BBC this morning and found that one of the latest theories is "The Universe is Flat."  Nobody started a page about it yet so I thought I would get your take on this.  Have we come full circle?

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                  wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Hard to see a 2 dimensional surface holding a 3 dimensional object imbedded it with other objects on all sides.

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                     mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     It is an interesting concept.  There is also a contest in the writing regarding the total of angle in a triangle may be more or less than 180 degrees.  I understand some of it but have not studied it.  Thought you might enjoy looking at it, if its still on the BBC network.

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                        wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Seems like I proved that in college geometry, but it would have been over 40 years ago and I could easily be mistaken.

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                           mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           I'd give you a big smiley emoticon for that one if I knew how.  Seems we must have gone to different schools together.

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               A.Villarasaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               @wilderness:
               The human mind's perseveration of the spiritual component of human existence has nothing to do with what you term as "made up stories". The mind, and in this context, consciousness is nothing short of a miracle considering that as you and your cohorts would claim, both are just the result of what is happening in the brain bio-chemically. So what gives?
               
               Should or could purely physical prrocesses  on their own be responsible for thoughts and feelings and memories and ideations, and imaginations and creativity. Or is there a common thread, that weaves through  all these permuations and manifestations  of  brain physiology that then ultimately is entwined in an entity we call  mind/consciousness?
               
               IMO that thread is the spiritual component of human existence. It is the spirit that engulfs all those biochemical procesess that then animates us, to the ultimate point of consciousness.

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                  wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure they should - why not?  You have exactly zero idea of what "spirit" is, so why not be physical?
                  
                  But if it is there at all, then find that spirit.  Weigh it, find it's color and atomic weight.  What material is it opaque to (photons, neutrinos, matter, etc.)?  Describe it in at least some kind of detail instead of using words with no fixed meaning.  If it is there, as you claim it is, surely you can do that as you MUST have evidence of its existence.

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                     A.Villarasaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Webster define "spirit" as  "a life-giving force; the animating principle". Nowhere in that definition would you find physical characteristics, as in weight, color, materiality. So if you are waiting for me to give you the physical attributes of "spirit", don't hold your breath, coz if you do, you'll be cyanotic as heck.

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                        wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        A force, eh?  There are four in our universe we know of, all with fairly good descriptions of their effects.  As you know about spirits can you give us some of the effects of this force?  What does it move?  How is it measured?  How strong is it?  What causes it, or where is it found and how can we tell if it is there?

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                           A.Villarasaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Again physical parameters does not apply to the spiritual force. What it ultimately does is separate us from the merely animal to the firmly human.... and becoming human allows all of us, with varying degrees of sufficiency, to cerebrally elaborate, what individually we could aspire for.
                           
                           As aspirations go, we are all different, but each one contributing his/her share to the altar of human experience. Collectively, as a specie, humans were meant to be witnesses to God's creation and in the process come into an understanding of his place in that creation.
                           
                           Now you and your materialist/objectivist/physicalist friends may deny the existence of such a force, but does that mean it does not exist.

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                           1. 89

                              wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              OK, it isn't a force at all.
                              
                              It is, instead, something you can't (or won't) define and that you wish to use the term "force" to describe.  But that term is well defined as being something else, making communication impossible. 
                              
                              Or will you take another shot at whatever it is you are using the term "force" to describe?  Something beyond describing the effects of this "force" in that it somehow makes us indistinguishably different than other animals.
                              
                              We cannot witness to creation as we were not there to know what happened.    If your god needs a witness He will have to go elsewhere.  We can come into an understanding of our place in the universe, something we have already done - or at least our place in our little corner of it.

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                                 A.Villarasaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 Of course humans are witnesses to God's creation.... we may not have been there at creation's beginning, but we are in the here and now witnessing the progression of that creation. Now if you are denying the fact that you and the rest of humanity were allowed to develop the cerebral capacity to as you say" come into an understanding of our place in the universe" then the human mind is, as they say," a terrible thing to waste".... if it is not allowed by us, who possess them, its potential for understanding, not only the physical nature of existence  but also its spiritual underpinning.

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   Jomine Joseposted 9 years ago

   "A Reason To Believe"
   Whom?

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      A.Villarasaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      A reason to believe that man's appearance on earth was not incidental, and that his existence is not inconsequential. If, as atheists/objectivists/secularists strongly argue, there is nothing spiritual in man's nature, then the nihilism that would naturally follow the promulgation of that idea, could be devastating.... not only to man's continued existence on earth, but also to his perceived destiny ie to give manifest credence and therefore  be witnesses  to the perplexities and complexities of the cosmos.

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         Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Everyone sees the world through the prism of the their own behaviour. Without spiritualism if you turn violent keep spiritualism by all means but don't insist that everyone should keep that veil.

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   lone77starposted 9 years ago

   A.V., ontological considerations have long been a concern of mind, starting at about age 3, when dreams of effortless flying made me wonder about faith, doubt and self.
   
   The switchboard called the human brain is temporary. It holds the current personality, memories, attitudes and beliefs. At body death, these disappear for all intents and purposes. But they are not entirely gone.
   
   Christ said that salvation leads to everlasting life. I've long wondered what that meant. In recent years, I think I may have come to understand exactly what that means.
   
   The true self -- the spiritual child of God -- is asleep in most of us. Awareness depends solely on the flesh and its switchboard. But I've tasted the spiritual awareness of the everlasting. I've been outside of my physical body, seen without human eyes and thought without a human brain. If such a state can be made permanent, then consciousness moves from the physical switchboard to the spiritual source of creation. Because spirit is eternal, consciousness becomes eternal, no matter what happens to the physical switchboard.
   
   Within all of the miraculous events I've experienced, there is one common denominator which yields this "everlasting life" viewpoint. It is an attitude of selfless love. Self-concern disappears and there is only concern for the wants and needs of others. When I have strayed from this, life became pockmarked. When I've returned to this, bliss became perpetual.

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