Aliens

1. 58

   Odhiambo Ouma Srposted 9 years ago

   In your honest opinion, do you believe that aliens are real? If so, is there any biblical explanation for their existence?
   

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      BuddiNsenseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Aliens?
      Biblical gods and angels are all aliens.

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      Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I think there is a consensus here- the universe is too vast and potentially habitable planets too abundant to dismiss the possibility of alien life. As far as a biblical explanation, I'm not sure what is being asked. I think an interesting question to pose to those who believe in the Bible is: "Is a belief in intelligent alien life compatible with the Biblical doctrine of atonement through Christ's death?" I think that is a valid question because it would seem that Christ would need to die for all of those aliens just as he did for humanity if both the Bible is true and intelligent alien life exists.

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      Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      ____________________________
      Yes, I believe they exist, but in other dimensions.
      The bible is about Earth, and mankind, so there would be no biblical explanation for their existence
      I imagine after man disobeyed God, that he created higher lifeforms in other dimensions.
      I don't think UFOs have anything to do with Extraterrestrials. Since they are in other dimensions, it is also how they would get to us
      
      On TV the other day Scientists said it is probably where Aliens reside (in other dimensions). I can't find that on the internet, but here's something
      http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013 … e-on-earth

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   4. 0

      markbennisposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      In an infinite reality there must be an infinite probability of extra-terrestrial life out there, so why not here among us?

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         Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Hello mark
           Especially when we consider the solar systems out there three times older than our own.
         Almost 12 Billion years compared to just over four billion.
            What kind of abilities might we earthlings have after we evolve another 71/2 billion years.
             All we would do is to learn to not destroy ourselves and our environment.
             When we get past that hurdle there are no limits.

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2. 95

   wildernessposted 9 years ago

   There is nothing but conjecture and imagination to indicate that ET's have ever visited the earth.  Which includes the biblical insistence that they exist and have been here.

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      Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I have heard an analogy about an advanced race of extraterrestrials putting forth the effort to travel great distances to observe Earth or a comparable society being like a human going through great pains to view an ant farm. There just would not be much to see for a highly advanced people here on Earth. Humanity is simple and probably uninteresting.

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         wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         The question is why would they come that great distance, not knowing we are even here.  Just because they detected a planet?  Seems unlikely.

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            Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            That's a good point. The only reason that makes any sense to me is that the aliens' biology is similar enough to organisms on Earth for Earth to be an attractive new home. In that case, they would be coming to inhabit the planet. Given that we are alive and having this conversation, that has not happened.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         and yet here we are! I guess its pretty interesting to US!

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            Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Of course we are interested in ourselves. Self-interest is a necessary human trait. Natural selection favors organisms that are self-serving because those organisms strive to obtain resources and are careful to avoid threats.

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   2. 58

      Odhiambo Ouma Srposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      For a long time I believed in what you say but after watching : Alien-Worlds-Extraterrestrial-National-Geographic, I am beginning to think otherwise

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         wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Why?  I haven't seen the show, but what was presented that makes you think aliens have/are visiting us?

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3. 73

   crazyhorsesghostposted 9 years ago

   I don't really think the Bible has anything to do with it. I think aliens have been visiting the earth and I think the U.S. and other world governments are covering up their existence. We would have to be fools not to believe that other planets don't have intelligent life. And I think they may look pretty much like we do.

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      seveniddiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      If aliens managed crossing all those millions or trillions of miles to the earth, they must be both, millions times more intelligent than us, and so civilized that can not be fierce  and coward. To most cases the aliens are regarded as cruel without any confidence, because they don't intend friendship with humanity.
      Those other planets and space objects you see were not specialized for life but to serve us in a right age as we see how the moon work for us. We have enormous ages in the future in which all those plates you see as if waiting in vain will play parts.
      Look! how many thousands of years did the atmosphere wait before it was used to traffic electronic waves...which makes it possible to transmit this massage to HubPages?. Now the Mars has been reached and I'm assuring that after a half century the nations will conflict for Mars divisions, not for colonizing aliens but developing means of communication.

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4. 38

   ChristinSposted 9 years ago

   I would say there has been some compelling evidence, but no concrete proof of their existence and visiting Earth - however, that being said, it would be very arrogant of humanity to assume that we are A. the most advanced beings out there and B. alone in this ginormous universe. 
   
   My personal inclination is that yes they exist and that if "Angels" really did appear to early man, they were likely beings from another place that were helping our civilization get established which makes far more sense to me than supernatural beings that we just can't see anymore for whatever reason. 
   
   I'm open minded enough to say I don't know - but it's interesting to ponder.  I do enjoy the ancient aliens series it's always intriguing. Whether one believes it or not - they do pose some interesting questions and theories.

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5. 84

   FatFreddysCatposted 9 years ago

   I'm open to the possibility of alien life forms -- but as I'm so fond of saying, I'd rather not find out for sure that they exist by bumping into one in the middle of the night!

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6. 60

   Jeramiposted 9 years ago

   Consider for a moment How much the collective knowledge of mankind has evolved in the past 65 years compared to the last 6000 years.
        There has to be an explanation for the sudden explosion in scientific technology. For 6000 years the amount of horse power was directly related to how many horses you had pulling the plow.
        Imagine if you can how much farther our knowledge will advance in the next 500 years.
   
        There are many things we can not imagine , or even consider being able to accomplish even if were able to imagine it; that some day will become commonplace.
   
        now consider that there are billions of solar systems which are 10 billion light years away which are older than that.  Those solar systems are three times older than ours.
   If it is possible for a civilization to not destroy itself  every 6 to 10 thousand years , How much more advanced than us do you suppose they might be.
   
        Seems to me that the odds of there not being other civilizations out there, capable of traveling in some way to our outpost to be about 10billion to one.
   
      Who knows ?   If our collective knowledge were to double that which we have achieved in the past 65 years, who knows, we might even be able to create a new universe grander than the one we now inhabit. 
   ==========
         "In your honest opinion, do you believe that aliens are real? If so, is there any biblical explanation for their existence?"
   ==============
       I can't imagine them not being real.
   I don't believe every story. Doesn't mean none of them are real.
   The best way to cover up a true story is to make up multitudes of similar stories.

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      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      "Seems to me that the odds of there not being other civilizations out there, capable of traveling in some way to our outpost to be about 10billion to one."
      
      I would agree, although I imagine your odds are way too short.  More like 100 trillion to one.
      
      But that doesn't mean they are here, or that they are even coming.  Do they wish to go to space?  Do they wish to meet other life?  Do they simply search all the trillions of planets on a constant basis, and if not why would they come here?  How would they know we even exist, with radio waves having traveled only a few light years?
      
      Just of a few of the questions that should be considered.

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         Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with the trillion to one being better odds. I generally attempt to be conservative in my testaments.
         
         With the possibility of their civilization being a billion years (or more) more advanced than ours, I couldn't begin to imagine why they would want to come here.   We could (?) be just a refueling station.
         They may have overpopulated thousands of other planets closer to their mother planet?
         They may want to stop by here for the same reason I might want to climb Mt. Everest, or trap bever in Alaska for one season.
         
           According to ancient text, they came here to mine gold.
         There is plenty of evidence that they have been coming here "IF" we choose to accept this evidence.
         There are plenty of pictures that can not be proven to be altered or fabricated.
         There are lots of otherwise credible people who who profess to have seen them, including past presidents, high ranking officers in our military, Air Force pilots from many countries, etc etc.
         
             But I agree with you; none of that is proof unless it is you or I who has the experience.
         Again ...  what are the odds of Every One of these thousands of reports being false claims?
            I can come up with any reasonable explanation for the sudden surge in technology that began in the mid 1940's; other than it being given to us from out side courses.
         Except for electrical and gasoline motors, what other breakthroughs in technology can we brag about before the 1940's.
             Then suddenly in the next two decades------- Kaboom !  and about all we've been doing is improving upon them since then. 
             Just seems to me that there is a bunch of stuff going on that we are not supposed to know.
         And I don't know much!   But I suspect a bunch.

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7. 60

   Jeramiposted 9 years ago

   OOPS   Forgot to answer 2nd half of the question.
   
     Is there a god?    ...    Is there a God Like entity out there someplace ?
     I think so!     Did a God like entity introduce itself to Abraham ?   I think so!
     Can I adequately describe a God Like entity ?    No, I don't think so ?   
   I can only reiterate  what I think I am reading about, when I read scriptures.
      I can, if I wanted to; describe what I perceive to be interactions between myself and an out of this world intelligence.  Is  it an entity ?  I don't know. that depends upon what you believe an entity to be.
   
     According to the bible, God is extraterrestrial.
   Are extraterrestrials Gods?    Not necessarily.
   A Mustang is a ford, but a Ford isn't necessarily a Mustang.
   And a mustang is a horse, but that horse isn't a Ford.

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8. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   http://www.csicop.org/si/show/skeptical … doscience/
   
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MQ356o5nCk
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_9cb37090A

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      Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Many christians have very little written knowledge about other earthlings. What could they see outside of their bible?

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9. 61

   mishpatposted 9 years ago

   One of my all time favorite movies, "The Day the Earth Stood Still."  I'm talking the original with Michael Rennie not the recent yawner.  Why is it one of my favorites?  The theme centers more on attitudes, the fear and greed of man, rather than the alien.  Anything of real importance changed since 1951?  I don't think so.  If there were such things as aliens, would they change things?  I don't think so.  They would be killed on the spot, which is, of course the end result of Jesus trying to foster changes.
   
   But it always strikes me as odd that the "less than normal" of Hollywood can zero in on the ills of mankind, make money from it, cause dialogue, etc. and yet the only thing man learns from it is that man learns nothing from it, as evidenced by the change or lack there of.  And Hollywood gets richer.
   
   Presently we are in the celebrity "abuse" era having given up on the "attack weapon and gun violence" and the "sudan and starvation" eras.  "Say, you mugs," maybe the MIB movies are correct!  The "less than normal" of Hollywood are writing about themselves.  They are aliens and they are trying to fix things but nobody is listening.

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      Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, no alien on earth have been proven to exist.
      
      Yet, most people prepare their whole life to go to this unknown spirit world, and think if it's not done correctly, they will be tortured forever.
      
      BEAM ME UP  Scotty, there is no intelligent life here.

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10. 57

    seveniddiposted 9 years ago

    No, the aliens don't exist since there's no biblical explanation. The bible doesn't only mention about earth and mankind but even mentions about stars, planets and moreover the life beyond the universe where is the residence of more powerful creatures, the angels and devils. It's aliens only who have not been mentioned. Why?, because they don't really exist.
    The aliens existence is only a humanly  everlasting wish of longing fellow neighbors like them to share the universe over its enormous vacancy. It's hard to believe though how should the universe be resided with human only. But it must be remembered that when God creates He doesn't hold a thing but wishes and His wish comes into being, so the existence of only humans in the universe is not wasting of His strength and space, but just an indication to prove that He is totally different from human in theory and practice.

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       Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       ____________________
       God wishes and his wishes come true?
       Give me a break

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe you don't like the word "wishes." God imagines and his images manifest. First they manifest in quiet thought, then as life-tronic forces and then organized as blueprints of light which finally manifest as concrete reality on earth…
          
          - or beyond.  WHY NOT?

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             Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             _____________________
             Actually, God spoke everything into existence. To say God wishes, or imagines, implies there is someone higher than God, and there isn't
             
             Genesis 1:3
             "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light".
             
             According to this, It was instant, and went through no process

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                Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                According to Eastern Belief, Aum is the word of God… The initial vibration...

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                   Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   ________________________
                   The word of God, and God's spoken words, means two different things
                   Aum, Om, and Omkara is a Hindu Mystical word, not the word of God
                   
                   Aum is known as Praṇava, meaning "sounded out loud".

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                      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      Not all the same thing?

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                seveniddiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                You can't have a word or imagination before wishing.... that means imagination and a word are reactions of  a wish
                Who denies that?

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                   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   wish, hope, will … which is the most powerful?
                   God apparently willed all into existence based on desire. Will can be understood as intention and wish as desire.
                   For instance, after one wishes for something, intentions make it happen.

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                      Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      ___________
                      That's true, as far as people go, but God did not have to wish, his spirit hovered, and his words created as he spoke them..let there be..and their was
                      It takes effort on our part, but not God's

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                         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         It takes WILL… you are really arguing with me?

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                            seveniddiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            Will is made for purpose...you can't have Will without purpose. You can't have purpose without Wish.

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                               Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               I wish means I desire. I want.  I would like. It is an urge to some type of action.
                               The saddest thing is to shut down (valid) wishes in children. I know an eleven year girl in my neighborhood who loved to come to my house to draw and do artwork. Her parents and grandmother, my neighbor, dissuaded her against her natural interest and love of doing artwork because it is not relevant to earning a living. Now, her easel sits untouched.  Humph.

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                            Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            ________________________
                            If you see having an opinion as "arguing ", I guess I am
                            Are you arguing with me?
                            See I don't mind when someone sees things differently,
                            
                            When people feel they know certain things, and want others to see, they give their opinion
                            Some are even simple debaters

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11. 61

    mishpatposted 9 years ago

    What about that big clam theory and life experience auditing?  Maybe that can satisfy some?

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    bBereanposted 9 years ago

    Universe = Uni (0ne) + verse (meaningful grouping of words)
    
    "Let there be" (and there was).

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

    ...well, thats true: We sure do obtain resources and avoid threats. 
    
    - and thats an understatement!

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14. 60

    Jeramiposted 9 years ago

    Looking at what the bible says about God, And reading the dictionary; God seems tofall under the definition of an extraterrestrial.    That is not to say that the definition of an extraterrestrial falls under the definition of a God.
        Like saying Jerami lives in Texas, so anyone in Texas is Jerami ... NOT.
    
        The bible says there can be angels standing next to us that we do not see. According to Elijah 
    they seem to be in a different dimension.  Evidently according to the bible, they are able to cross over into this dimension.
      So, I don't understand why any person believing in the bible would not believe that extraterrestrials would not be coming here.   
        Ezekiel describes, as best as he knows how,seeing an Object Flying through the air which was not like anything he could identify with, except that  Ezekiel believed it was God because God told Ezekiel that he was going to fly by at that time.  Otherwise, Ezekiel would have just said he saw a UFO.
    
        So it is quite simple, For those people who do not believe in what the bible says have no reason to believe in extraterrestrials except for whatever evidence is presented of which they chose to accept or not accept.
        There is an abundance of evidence for and against any real issue we want to address.

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    1. 0

       Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       ______________________
       I also believe the Garden of Eden is in another dimension
       That man was kicked out, and was put in our dimension because the effects of time on us, would bring death. I don't think we would have been able to die in Eden

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          Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I too believe that.
          Seems to me to be saying as much in scripture.

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             wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Why?  And along with that, what does "dimension" mean?  We know, of course, what it refers to in our world; three spatial dimensions with time being a  (possible) fourth. 
             
             But the garden was not one-dimensional, existing on a line in one of those three dimensions.  So what does "dimensions" mean?

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                Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                I believe that according to Quantum Physics scientist there are at least ten dimensions. 
                
                It just seems natural to me that Time would be an element of them all. Transcending all being effected by each. while having an effect over them.
                    Kinda like turning the knob on the radio.  Adjust the frequency and hear one particular radio station on its own frequency.  While turning the know, some frequencies have no radio broadcasting on it.
                   
                     If you could insulate yourself within a bubble sort of apparatus, having a knob to turn which slowed down or speed up the electrons within the matter outside the bubble you are in, You would come back having a story to tell.  But no body is going to believe you. Because it is not real within that time frame they never left and you didn't see during the experiment.   
                
                   I know that isn't an answer , but it is the best way I can explain it.
                
                   That is just conjecture.
                How does one explain something which is not within our place in the space time continuum?
                So I say kinda like.

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       mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Jerami, be careful you don't get caught up in all this cosmic creatures, new age and kabbalic nonsense, filled with cryptic messages and unscriptural doctrines.  As you read the Bible note that God talked directly with man before and after the expulsion for the Garden.  He came in the appearance of a man and spoke with Abram/Abraham just before Sodom was destroyed.  He may move back and forth between Heaven and Earth as He wills.  And yet He has done this all within the unsearchable realm of His ability, and man's need.
       
       Angels are His messengers.  They abide where God abides.  They go where He directs.  They are neither man nor God.  As ancient man was want to make design and pictographs of those things that they did not understand completely, lets also be aware of present day man's innate passion for elaborating and embellishing.
       
       And, as to God, He is the creator.  Therefore, He is not an extraterrestrial but an omnipotent being with out limits of time or space.  Dimensions and other worlds are but confusion to draw the believer and seeker off track and toward the realm of the wicked one, satan, the prince of this world.

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          Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I've not been reading any of what you call "cosmic creatures, new age and kabbalic nonsense".
          About 30 years ago I did read Diane-tics by L.Ron Hubbard. 
          
          Since then, I've been reading the bible, attempting to understand what is actually written, unabated by previously held interpretations of what is written. Interpretations which were taught in sunday school and later in church.
              As we read scriptures we are not actually reading them with our mind, we have a preconceived idea as to what we are about to read which superimposes what we are actually reading.
                 I spent over a decade clearing my mind of those superimposed interpretations before I could actually understand the words for what they are actually saying.
          
               By the way; I don't understand what exactly you read in the words that I wrote that you are objecting to.

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             mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I am not objecting only cautioning you about the words of others, including mine.  We are responsible for our own decisions whether they be legal or spiritual.  I would hope that your personal studies will lead you in a proper direction. 
             
             Any previous beliefs will, of course, hinder you as you are probably learning.  But with the Bible, prayer and the direction of God by His Holy Spirit, you should do all right.

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                Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                It is those words of which we have already heard and believed in error which misleads us the most.
                It was those personal interpretations others that I accepted as truth way back when I was 10 through 30 that we need to go back and examine.
                
                     All too often when we can not see what the words in scripture are actually saying ; no more or no less than what they actually say because we are blinded by other peoples interpretations which we learned decades ago. Nothing can lead us as far from the truth as those untruths which we have already accepted as a foundation of beliefs.
                
                   The words of Jesus are difficult to misinterpret. Though it can.
                  Take for instance, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believeth  in him shall not parish...
                   This verse does not say everyone else will perish.  We might assumes it does but it doesn't.
                    If I say, The turtles will crawl out of the sea.       
                    I am not saying the crabs and other crawly things won't crawl out also.

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                   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   So Jerami, Turtles and crabs and other crawly things are going to crawl out of the ocean?
                   WHEN? !
                   Aliens too??

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                   mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   If we take a progression of verses in the Bible from John 3:16, which you quoted, to Revelation 20:15, we would find that God has laid out a simple plan.  We would find that "everyone" that has not come to God through Jesus Christ will "perish" (Greek "apollumi").  There are several equivalent words in English, none of which could be construed to mean a pleasant eternity.
                   
                   So the word "perish" is definitive meaning eternal punishment and is inclusive of all that do not accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior.

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       Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       ___________________________
       That's why regardless of how long, and hard they've searched, they've never found Eden.
       God took Adam and placed him in the Garden of Eden (Gan Eden in Hebrew). It doesn't say God told Adam where Eden was, and he walked to it....
       Genesis 2:15
       And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
       
       ...That's because Adam couldn’t get there by himself, because it was in another dimension,
       
       Gan, which is garden, in Hebrew, really means an enclosure. The Enclosure of Eden was another dimension. I've never met anyone else until now, who believed this
       
       When you have OBEs,  you sometimes go to/ enter other dimensions..
       
       In one place the Bible speaks of three different heavens. ..the word heaven's... implies dimensions
       ..and even more heavens are implied
       Nehemiah:9:6
       6 Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host
       
       There are dimensions which are abodes for angels (the angelic realm), which are higher dimensions still, and these are a part of the heavenly dimensions, and they are higher than Eden
       I have written about all this on my website..so if you would like to have my site address Jerami, email me

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    Deborah Sextonposted 9 years ago

    A dimension is simply the measurement of movement of some kind.
    The movement that we as humans are aware of is
    
    Up and down or Height
    Back and forth or Length
    Side to side or Width
    By this definition, physically we live in a three dimensional world, with time as the fourth
    Eden would have been in a higher dimension

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       So, while turtles, crabs and crawling things are coming from the ocean, aliens are coming from Eden in a higher dimension? !

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       wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       "Eden would have been in a higher dimension"
       
       Eden is in a "measurement of movement" then.  In an inch, perhaps.  But what does "higher" refer to if not to one of the three dimensions we know, labeled "height"?
       
       Truthfully, it sounds like you're making up definitions for words, definitions that have no correlation to the English language or even the mathematical/physics language where the term "dimension" actually resides.  Worse, you are unable to define the term outside of a meaningless jumble of other words.

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          According to Genesis, Eden was on Earth:
          
          1. Mighty Triple O made man out of MUD. ( He breathed into the mud-man's nostrils causing the mud-man to have a "living soul.")
          
          2. Mighty Triple O planted a GARDEN "eastward in Eden"  where he PUT the now breathing mud-man."
          
          3. Mighty Triple O planted beautiful and fruitful TREES…
          
          4. Q. WHERE?
              A.  Somewhere near Ethiopia, Assyria and the river Euphrates.
          
          So, I do not know why anyone would think Eden existed in another dimension!

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             JoelMcLendonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Where did you learn this garbage? Adamah does not mean mud man
             He was created on earth, and taken to Eden
             
             Genesis 2:15-And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
             
             and then he was removed from it and put back where he came from
             
             Genesis 3:23-Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

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                Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                ______________________________
                Mud man
                Edit: I might add, Adam was formed from dust/dirt
                He was taken from earth the day he was put in Eden
                When he was kicked out of Eden, he was returned to where he was taken, not to where he was formed
                Genesis 3:23-Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

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                   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   Its all right there in Genesis!
                   For gosh sakes! God made man out of MUD!
                   He breathed into Mud-Man and presto he had a soul!
                   Maybe he looked like Gumby!
                   The mud could even have been green back then!
                   
                   Repeating:
                   4. Q. WHERE was Eden? According to Genesis:
                        A.  Somewhere near Ethiopia, Assyria and the Euphrates river.  Not another dimension!

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                      Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      __________________
                      No, not hardly. You are believing what someone else says
                      The bible doesn't say where Eden is

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                         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         Where do you think I got this information????

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                         Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         Actually, if we are operating on the assumption that genesis is literally true, let's look at genesis chapter 2 in which the author describes the location of Eden. It's important to first establish context. The chapter makes it clear that the story is recounting the generations of "the heavens and the earth." From that we have two locations to choose from to establish the whereabouts of Eden. It must be "the Heavens" or "the earth". Now, the very next verse of chapter 2 removes the guess work. Genesis 2:5, "... God had not caused it to rain upon the earth And there was not a man to till the ground." So, we learn that earth is the setting of our story. If there is a shift in setting, it happens without warning or mention. To further illustrate that we are indeed looking at an earth centric story, let's examine 2:14. This verse corporate Kathryn. It uses Assyria as a geographic reference point as well as the river Euphrates. If the author is relating a story about an event that occurred in an alternate universe or another dimension or another planet, his choice of words are terribly misleading. Now, I appreciate the level of thought that has gone into conceptualizing some transdimentional paradise. But if Eden was inaccessible by reason of it being located off of earth, why did God put angels with swords of fire to guard it?

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                            Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            Corroborate not corporate

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                               wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               Tip: if you will press the "more" link under your post you will find an "edit" button whereby you may edit your own post.  It is only available for a few hours, though, and after that will not be present.

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                                  Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                  Thanks, Wilderness. I'm learning the ropes. I appreciate you advising the new guy.

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                                     wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                     

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                               Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               <"why did God put angels with swords of fire to guard it?">.
                               
                               
                               "So, he drove out the man and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden, Cherubim (angels of the highest order) and a (One) flaming sword which turned every which way to keep (preserve) the WAY of the tree of life." Genesis 4: 24
                               
                               
                               I guess this flaming sword is still over there shining every which way somewhere near Assyria and the Euphrates river… along with the Cherubim and a tree of life.
                               
                               What is a "tree of life," again?
                               What is the way of the tree of life?
                               
                               Conclusion:      NONE of this can be taken literally.
                               
                               TWISI

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                   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   As you know, one cannot form anything out of dust or dirt. Try it. I dare you: Go out into your garden and gather up some dirt…
                   Therefore, one must add water to make a kind of clay…
                   fine...
                   Clay Man.

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                      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      He probably started with a beaker of water, not dirt.  We are, after all, more water than anything else.

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                         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         Exactly. But you do need to add the clay.. Ha Ha ha!

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                            wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            Naw - a little dirt mixed with gorilla glue will do better.  And add in the monkey genes as it does.

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                               Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               But, would God breathe into such a mixture?
                               Gross!

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                                  wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                  Don't know - I've never used gorilla glue.  My wife is going to, though, to glue a show back together and I'll watch to see if she blows on it.

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                                     Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                     If the shoe comes to life you will have to refer to her as Goddess. You could handle that, right?

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                                        wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                        She already is.  Not only IMHO, but she has given life to two children as well.

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                                           Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                           ... well, it takes more than that to be a Goddess! But, she is Your Goddess! So, she is lucky.

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                      Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      _____________________
                      I'm not God

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                         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         No, but you are a bubble of the Ocean of Mighty Triple O.
                         
                         TWISI

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                   seveniddiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   Surely mud man he was...made of dirty mud. When mentioning dirt it relates watery or wet where all bacterias and other rubbish by nature end up to.
                   Look! dust is not dirty element ...that's why most pregnant women and children  are so, so fond of its smell....or aroma.

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

    I do not agree here, Jerami, in the least:
    < What kind of abilities might we earthlings have after we evolve another 71/2 billion years.
        All we would do is to learn to not destroy ourselves and our environment.
        When we get past that hurdle there are no limits.>
    
    There will ALWAYS be limits on the earth plane of existence.
    A L W A Y S !
    
    TWISI
    
    PS We need those aliens coming out of Eden in a higher dimension to show us how to get back there!

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       Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       < What kind of abilities might we earthlings have after we evolve another 71/2 billion years.
           All we would do is to learn to not destroy ourselves and our environment.
         Our physical bodies don't have to change in order for mankind as a society to evolve.   
       For thousands of years man has dreamed of flying. To enter a dimension of reality which we were denied. 
       You in a way are correct that we need to go back; ... back to that place in time before we built the tower of Bable. Before we stopped truly communicating properly with each other.
       Didn't God say that unless he did something, there would be nothing we could not achieve ?
       
       ====================
       
       "PS We need those aliens coming out of Eden in a higher dimension to show us how to get back there!"
       
       ================
       
       Maybe  the only way to get "Back there"  is forward?  As the wedding is said to signify completeness and the circle of life.  How often in life after completing a long hard journey, do we find ourselves right back in the same place we began? 
           The barrier standing in the way of eternal life might just be a doorway into that other dimension.
       But for now, the only way through that door that was once open, is to reject these bodies which we occupy. 
       Kinda like that monkey with his hand in the jar. Until he lets go of the peanuts in his hand, he can't get his hand back through the opening of the jar.

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          Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          _____________________________
          Our bodies restrict the movement we had in Eden
          
          And of course I didn't say aliens were coming from Eden, but that the Extraterrestrials, and Eden are in different dimensions that are higher than ours. The dimension Eden is in is most probably a different dimension than the ones Extraterrestrials, are in
          Everything has a mathematical equation
          Dictionary Help which agrees with what I said about the movement
          dimension |dɪˈmɛnʃ(ə)n, dʌɪ-|
          noun
          1 a measurable extent of a particular kind, such as length, breadth, depth, or height: 
          • a mode of linear extension of which there are three in space and two on a flat surface, which corresponds to one of a set of coordinates specifying the position of a point.
          • Physics an expression for a derived physical quantity in terms of fundamental quantities such as mass, length, or time, raised to the appropriate power (acceleration, for example, having the dimension of length × time−2).
          2 an aspect or feature of a situation:
          
          Dimension also mean a way of movement, up, down, side, to side, back, and forth. They are directions of movement, not inches. These movements are the only way that we can perceive anything, in our dimension..We can not ordinarily perceive higher dimensions or their movement..the same way a two dimensional person could not perceive us. We are to ascend our bodies with our spirits.
          This is why in the NT Jesus tells Thomas to thrust his hand into his side, to show that the body can be ascended too
          In Eden we would have had other ways of movement, dependiing on what dimension it's in
          
          

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

    "So he drove out the man and and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 4:24.
    
    "Cherubim: A winged angelic being described in biblical tradition as attending on God. It is represented in ancient Middle Eastern art as a lion or bull with eagles' wings and a human face, and regarded in traditional Christian angelology as an angel of the second highest order of the ninefold celestial hierarchy." Online Dictionary
    
    Q. Is a cherub an alien? !

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    Jeramiposted 9 years ago

    . Is a cherub an alien?  I would say definitely!    Which doesn't mean all aliens are  cherub.s

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    sparksterposted 9 years ago

    The bible speaks of God, who is not of Earth - therefore he IS extraterrestrial, or ultraterrestrial, or hyperdimensional, etc. The bible also speaks of the Nephilim and the Elohim. Those who claim that the bible doesn't mention extraterrestrials need to read it again.

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       Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Jude 1:6
       And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
       
       This is speaking of the angels who left their own habitation (realm, dimension), came to our dimension, and saw the daughters of men, and stayed here with them..Gen.6
       
       Ezekiel 31:16
       I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
       
       Nether means a lower position, a lower place. and the lower position of a place.
       
       The nether parts of the earth, aren’t in, or under the land/earth, and it isn’t hell or the bottomless pit. It is the world, the land where humans reside. It’s an ordinary three dimensional place. It’s here.
       
       Hades is a Greek word used in the New Testament to denote the realm of conscious departed spirits ... Evidently it is another dimension-the underworld

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          wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          But that implies a "non-nether" part of the earth and the only thing left is the atmosphere.  No angels, gods or demons up there or we would see them.

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             JoelMcLendonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             No, it shows the earth is a lower dimension, and that there are higher dimensions
             Nothing like twisting what someone says

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                Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                ____________________________
                Some people can't make sense of what they read

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Nephilim: " Offspring of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" before the Deluge according to Genesis 6:4;
       Bible Reference:
       There were giants "IN THE EARTH" in those days ... when the sons of God (had sex with) the daughters of men, and (these women) gave birth to the "giant's" offspring. The offspring became mighty men of renown.  (Or maybe they just had large brains?! The original aliens who had landed…? See OP Image.)
       
       This passage does not indicate that these big brained beings(?) were from heaven. In fact, "IN" the earth might refer to these beings living in caves or underground. Perhaps this is the "nether" reference.)
       
       Elohim: "A name for God used frequently in the Hebrew Bible." Dictionary
       
       Extraterrestrial, "of or from outside the earth or its atmosphere. Noun: a hypothetical or fictional being from outer space, esp. an intelligent one." Dictionary

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          JoelMcLendonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          You're copying other people's words, try thinking on your own

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             Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I agree

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             Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Okay, here is my conclusion based on my research:
             
                 Aliens arrived from another planet BCE. Sure enough, they actually did have large heads with big brains. After they arrived, they lived underground or in caves. They observed the horrid cavemen and women from a distance. They figured out that to improve the human race, they would have to infuse their superior genetic code into theirs. In time, they crept out and charmed the cavewomen. In this way, they created offspring which were not only beautiful, but very intelligent and creative.
             But, unfortunately, the offspring were smarter than the cave women… what was a dumb cave mom to do with such smart conniving children! The Fathers were not very goods Dads or very good Husbands and these  hybrid humans were running amok… no boundaries, no rules… in fact anarchy reigned. Things went from bad to worse.
                 And finally... "God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he…" had even bothered to breathe air into Gumby, uh, I mean, Mud…uh, Clay Man in the first place!
             
             How did I do with my own thinking?

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    mishpatposted 9 years ago

    This is such fun.  All this dimensions and doors and magical stuff.  Its like watching a cosmolo-spiritual  tag team match; Carl Sagan and Ayn Rand versus Ron Hubbard and Mary Eddy.  And I am quite sure some of the lines are from Men in Black!

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Which lines?

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

    sigh… so much keyboarding…
    Genesis 10-15:
    And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted and became four heads. The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; and the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
    And the name of the second river is Gibon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. and the name of the third river is Heddekel: that is it which goeth to the east of Assyria and the fourth river is Euphrates.
    
    And then Mighty Triple O put his Clay Man (which possessed a "living soul") into the garden to take care of it.

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       Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Kathryn, I want to clarify that on several points I think you're merging mythologies and terminology across time and culture. Furthermore, I think you're making several assumptions. However, since this is a forum that asks for your opinion, it seems fitting. Now, to the point. It seems your assertion that Eden is on earth is supported by the proof text that both you and Deborah are relying on.

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          <It seems your assertion that Eden is on earth is supported by the proof text that both you and Deborah are relying on.>
          
          I know!

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    Afterlifeposted 9 years ago

    It is interesting that you should mention that.  There was the Biblical Nephillam which were fallen angels.  We have so many manifestations of Aliens on the ground and in the air, but never in outer space.  It is thought today that our world is made up of more than 10 dimensions.  What might it look like if a being came from another dimension and not from the physical place we call outer space.  For more info on the  Biblical Aspect you can search for info on http://khouse.org/

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       -well... How do you know the Nephillam weren't aliens? from another planet in the solar system or beyond? We don't know what happened so long ago on earth.
       I have never met an alien from another dimension.
       Have you?
       What do they look like?

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       Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you for your input. It's very interesting

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    Deborah Sextonposted 9 years ago

    You would think when someone is old enough to be great grandparents, they would have matured a little. Maybe an alien hasn't run into the Empire State Building, but that doesn't prove they don't exist.

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Does anything prove they do exist here? How do we recognize beings from other dimensions?

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          bBereanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          "Shifty" eyes.

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             Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             - oh, I see...

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    Castlepalomaposted 9 years ago

    Why were Mexican call illegal Aliens, when they lived there all along?

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    Afterlifeposted 9 years ago

    Well, in science there is what is called empirical evidence. It is viewing a sequence of proofs over time.  Evolution for instance has no empirical evidence because the missing link has never been found and the more information we get from genetics, the study of our blood and what the physicist are now saying that the Universe may be digital keeps it a theory.  What most people are unaware of is that the Bible is not one book.  It is compilation of 66 books written over thousands of years by different people who lived in different times and didn't know each other, yet they all tell of an encounter with a being who writes history in advance.  The prophets in the Old Testament prophesied over 300 times about Jesus Christ  that came true up til now, and that He was God's provision and Savior.  We have more documentation of the Resurrection (over 5000 copies to compare for errors and 500 witnesses.  As for that nonsense that his discilples "stole" the body.  The Bible reports a company of Roman soldiers guarded the tomb.  That is at least 100 men.  Pictures show two.  There were 500 witnesses many of whom gave their lives for their witness.  One hardly will give his life for a lie when scattered and not under the influence of a David Koresh.  The point is that there were reported in the Old Testament giants and men of super power.  As for Aliens building some of our structures...who knows how long Adam and EVe were in the garden before they sinned.  It is likely a long time, because there had to be people for their children to marry.  It is just as likely that what we call Atlantis is the product of that garden than to blame it on Aliens.  As I said before...we find no radio evidence of Aliens...only earthly visiual and personal contact. So, if you have a book with empirical evidence for its historical value, you need to look into its reports.  Try Josh McDowalls Evidence that Demands a Verdict.

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       wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Can you provide links to just a dozen of those 5000 non-biblical copies of the tale of the resurrection?  And just a dozen of those non-biblical witnesses (names, locations and verifiable reports they existed and observed the resurrection, please)?
       
       Yes, the OT reported giants - can you verify those reports from independent documents? 
       
       Adam and Eve had no children in the garden - their children married their children in incestuous relationships and the bible makes that quite clear.

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          Andy Lee Lawsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Independent? Verifiable? Uh... Can I interest you instead in some YouTube videos by Ken Ham?

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             wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I'll watch when my nap time rolls around.  Sometimes I need a little help getting to sleep...

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                Deborah Sextonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                You never did prove wind exists, and you didn't even try
                
                First reported in the May 4 1912 issue of the New York Times the 18 skeletons found by the Peterson brothers on Lake Lawn Farm in southwest Wisconsin exhibited several strange and freakish features.
                
                On 10 August 1891, the New York Times reported that scientists from the Smithsonian Institution had discovered several large "pyramidal monuments" on Lake Mills, near Madison, Wisconsin. "Madison was in ancient days the centre of a teeming population numbering not less than 200,000," the Times said.
                
                
                    1. John Haywood, The Natural and Aboriginal History of Tennessee, McCowat-Mercer, Jackson, TN, 1958
                    2. Cyrus Gordon, Before Columbus, Crown Publishers, NY, 1971
                    3. David Hatcher Childress, Lost Cities of North America, Adventures Unlimited Press, Stelle, IL, 1992, p.509.
                    4.Cyrus Godron, Before Columbus, Crown Publishers, NY, 1971.
                    5.David Hatcher Childress, Lost Cities of North America-M, Adventures Unlimited Press, Stelle, IL, 1992, p.509.
                    6.Indianapolis, News News, November 10, 1975.
                    7.Cyrus Godron, Before Columbus, Crown Publishers, NY, 1971.
                    8. David Hatcher Childress, Lost Cities of North America, Adventures Unlimited Press, Stelle, IL, 1992, p.468.
                    10. St. Paul Pioneer Press, June 29, 1888.
                    11. Chicago Record, October 24, 1895.
                    12. Humboldt Star, May 13, 1928.
                    13. David Hatcher Childress, Lost Cities of North America, Adventures Unlimited Press, Stelle, IL, 1992, p 494.
                    14. Ibid., p.496.
                    15. Ibid., p.497.
                    16. David Hatcher Childress, Lost Cities and Ancient M, Mysteries of South America, Adventures Unlimited Press, Stelle. IL, 1985, p.199.
                    17. The Hot Citizen, Expedition Reports Nine-Foot Skeletons," August 5, 1947.
                    19. David Hatcher Childress, Lost Cities North America, Adventures Unlimited Press, Stelle, IL, 1992, p.526.
                    20. Malcolm South, Mythical and Fabulous Creatures, Peter Berick Books, NY, NY, 1987, p.303.

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                Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Wilderness 
                
                Most earthlings do not like the taste of human, so aliens mostly will not eat us too We can use our media to teach aliens lettuce taste better and show them the cries of the screaming lettuce.

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                   wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   I truly hope and believe that you are grossly wrong.  That most people don't have the faintest idea if they like the taste of human flesh or not.  The alternative is not something I would enjoy contemplating...
                   
                   On the other hand, there are far more mosquitoes than people and we KNOW they like the taste - are they to be considered "earthlings"?

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                      Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      Most people who are alive?

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             markbennisposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Her species is very real and true:

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                markbennisposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                This still image taken from my UFO Footage is the real deal:

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                   markbennisposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   THERE IS ALWAYS A STORY BEHIND EVERY LOGO:
                   A pencil drawing by mark bennis (ufowatchuk.co.uk) that depicts an actual event that had occurred to him whilst in the garden.  Was it a UFO or was it a satellite?  Whatever it was on that very day it would be a precursor to another historical event in his timeline. When he witnessed what he can only describe as either a tall blonde or annunaki female extra-terrestrial? With whom he had an instant and very deep connection with.
                   

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                      markbennisposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      Are (Aliens) Extra-terrestrials Real?  Well Yes they are.  Are UFOs real?  Well Yes they are too.  So what’s with all the biblical quotes when there are ample parts of evidence already in existence in this century uploaded by numerous people all over the world?

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                Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                "It's" species, you mean, as it is "both male and female…"

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                   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   PS I think this is actually a wax bust of Uma Thurman shot with weird lighting. Probably exists in the Wax Museum here in Hollywood.

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                   seveniddiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   Hey, listen , listen
                   All of you, and all those who ever search about aliens are unknowingly search the god. Why do they always expect creatures more powerful than they are, because their hearts are not ready to live in huge comfort without bothering to worry about  some kind of invisible power  watching them. They have no idea that what they fear is GOD not aliens.

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Some have Bibles other than the one we refer to, I think. They brought them from THEIR planet.

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       mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Well put, and know that some here agree with you on these points.  But now prepare for the onslaught of the unbelievers and mystics with their "weird science."

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          "weird science" is based on the science of metaphysics. It is a valid science whether you want to accept that fact or not.
          
          "Mystics" utilize God-given powers of intuition.
          
          Don't You? Maybe you are a mystic too!
          
          mystic |ˈmistik| noun
          "a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect." Dictionary

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             wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Science requires testing, observation, conclusions and publication followed by peer review and retesting of the experiments.  Which metaphysics field includes those?

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                Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                I would tell you, but you would mock it.
                ...so, never mind.
                - if I believe my sources, it is good enough for me.
                
                Its my life.
                
                I bring it up here to inspire the search of valid options for those who are interested and/or searching for options.
                
                PS Anyone may read one of my hubs which references my sources.

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                   Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   Mystic's can bring you  towards a closer understanding of the truth. If not, they are not any closer  of being a mystic.

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                      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      If a person who claims to be a mystic does not put you in a position being able to directly perceive reality, that person is not a mystic.
                      Exactly.
                      The proof is in the putting.

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                   wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   Mock?  Or just point out that the tests were invalid and without peer review?
                   
                   Certainly your choice is your own and no one should question it unless the choice is adversely affecting them.  When you present it as a known truth, however, the story is much different.

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

    Regarding Other Dimensions in Hyperspace:
    
    http://mkaku.org/home/articles/hyperspa … verything/
    
    "The theory of hyperspace, however, languished for many decades for lack of any physical proof or application. But the theory, once considered the province of eccentrics and mystics, is being revived for a simple reason: it may hold the key to the greatest theory of all time, the “theory of everything.”
    Dr. Michio Kaku
    http://mkaku.org/home/
    
    Does Heaven and the Mansions of the Fathers House refer to other dimensions? Are they located in hyperspace?
    If so, how do we get there?
    ... merely by being good?
    If aliens are from other dimensions they must be good!

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    Castlepalomaposted 9 years ago

    Mosquitoes perfer biting on cows and chickens and their on the dumbside.
    I'm sure we sell aliens on tasty dumb animals or even share with them. We sold dumb humans

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    Castlepalomaposted 9 years ago

    If we were smarter we would eat alot more greens.

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    mishpatposted 9 years ago

    Since mystics are and always have been familiars of the occult, it is not reasonable accept them and their "abilities" as Biblical.  This would class them with the crowd know as the un-Godly.

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       Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Mystic's personal experience are more important than doctrain. Making claims of religious gods uncomfortable

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          mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Not sure what doctrain is.  Nor am I sure what the rest of this message says, means or implies.

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             Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             See... I'm uncomfortable with the word- doctrine.
             
             Perfer experiences
             rather than fairytales
             toward knowing
             something that exist.

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                Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                - exactly.

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                mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Well we all have a "doctrine" and because of this, none is of perfection or virtue.  And we know very little, as much as we huff and puff about our accomplishments.  What many fail to accept or recognize is that the "experience" of another is to one a fairytale but to the one who "experienced" it is attained knowledge.

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       wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       What is the difference, if any, between the "occult" world and the "spiritual" one?

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          mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          IMO, none.

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             wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Then why are the followers of the spiritual (occult) ungodly?

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                mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                I understood you to ask if the "spiritual" world and the "occult" world were the same.  I believe they are.  However, that does not mean the players in that world are of the same leadership or purpose.

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                   Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   Key differences between a religion and a cult have to do with size and history. Cults are more secretive. Occult, in contrast, is even more secretive than cults, and includes the use of supernatural powers.
                   
                   Personally I don’t take sake in any group yet share and learn from all groups to explore the spiritual 99% unknowns. For any group including ancient spiritual groups to claim all spirituality is under a God, I must question. For any God religion, Cult or occult do they really have the source of good intentions claiming every single soul on earth. Also who claims to know the afterlife. Unless they have died and come back with the experiences.  I think not, and they don’t like hard questions, very curious me loves hard questions.
                   
                   Mysticism plays an important — and often essential — role in all the world's religions, mysticism itself is not a religion. Religious teachings keep you in a small box, not allowing you to expand yourself. A mystic is essentially a person who pursues a truth or understanding beyond those normally associated with the human experience. I can only aim to be a mystic who explores the spiritual unknowns until it’s manifest into my ego self, where beauty is truth. If there is one true Religion it's nature and in the nature of Galaxies. In which stars are born, live, and ultimately die within billions perhaps trillions of galaxies in the observable universe. Aliens are 3 times more probable to people than any one God

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                      mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      There is really nothing secretive to a cult, except maybe a physically locked gate or door.  There is only a lack of recognition on the part of some, for a variety of reasons.  But, the bottom line is, it is a choice.   
                      
                      As to the occult, there is nothing secretive here either.  The Bible is quite clear on this.  And mysticism is a part of the occult.
                      
                      As to the last, its kind of diametric isn't it; to seek the spiritual yet depend on the natural?

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                         Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         I agree the real reality is choice and everything has reason, the absence of reason would be evil, there are reasons why we've evolved out of that. ... in religion the Absence of good is the same as absence of evil: Who defines what is good?
                         
                         I define spirituality as the 99% unknowns and nature is more known base.
                         Secrets are power. The Family: the Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, is in the best tradition of American kept secrete. None of the bogus punditry and bad sociology that often passes for informed discourse about the contemporary role of religion in public life. Presidential politics mesh with the shell game and mess with Religion like it’s a tool of mystery.

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                            Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            The Family: the Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, is in the best tradition of American kept secrete.
                            Wow, CP!

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                   wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   The evil ones reference their activities to the occult and the good ones call it spiritual?  Seems a pretty petty difference if that's all there is.
                   
                   Of course both sides also condemn the other as doing bad things in that place, but then that's been done since time immemorial.  If you're not like me, and live like I think you should, doing the things I think you should, you're evil.

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                      mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      The reference guide is the Bible.  It references that which is good, bad and occult.

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                         wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         I don't recall the bible ever referencing the occult outside perhaps of fortune tellers. 
                         
                         As far as good and bad, right and wrong - the bible as a whole gives a very poor example IMHO.  While Jesus, for the most part, gives us a good example (and never mentioned the occult vs spiritual world) the book as a whole does not promote what I find to be good and right.  Indeed, the major tales of the OT are mostly about abhorrent and evil instructions and acts from the God it says is all about love.

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                            Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            I want you to write a book, wilderness: The Bible According to "Wilderness." That would be quite fascinating! 

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                               wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               I's already written.  Few people read it with a discerning, questioning eye, though.  It isn't the same when read through the rose colored glasses of belief.

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                                  Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                  LOL! I see nothing wrong in the NT… what do you see?

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                                     wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                     Very little wrong, although it is a little idealistic.  Forever turning the other cheek will eventually result in a badly bruised cheek, for instance.  Christ's example is a good one to try and attain.  Although Revelation is another story...
                                     
                                     No, it's the OT that presents a devil for a god; the god that suddenly does a 180 degree turnabout through His son.

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                                        Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                        So many questions… so few answers. (both Books.)
                                        - if you ask me.

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                            mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            In deed Jesus and the NT dealt with the occult in many verses.  As to OT, most issues I understand, others are still a puzzle, but study continues to illuminate.  Choosing to not believe is a personal decision.

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                               wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               As is to twist the actions of the people and their gods into something that sounds reasonable when it is not.  To "forgive" the god for immoral actions and write it off because we don't know His plan.  Murder, genocide, slavery; these things are unacceptable today and as a result they must be either ignored or bent into something else, something they never were.

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                         Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         Yes everyothergod is  a cult

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                            mishpatposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            No, every off-beat none scriptural sect is a cult.  The occult has to do with other gods and such.

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                               Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               There all a form of sub cultures

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                               Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               sub cultures

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