Atheists, can you make an argument for god's existence?
They say that, in order to understand both sides of an issue, you must know enough that you could argue for the other side. It's a common practice in speech/debate classes. So this question is for atheists; can you make a convincing argument that god exists, even though you don't believe it yourself?
nature is so wonderful and complex, it had to have a super-intelligent designer. something has to be the uncaused cause. i believe it is god.
Keep in mind that we're the ones who have defined intelligence, which doesn't exist without our involvement.
Also keep in mind that "God" failed as a "super-intelligent designer". And no, there is no such thing as an "uncaused cause". A god did not create itself out of nothing and then create everything else.
you aren't in keeping with the intended spirit of the thread. you're supposed to be an atheist arguing FOR god.
LOL! You are correct. I just can't psyche myself up to "believe" or present a case for "belief" in a god or gods. Once one recognizes the invisibility of these "supreme beings", it's just too funny.
It all depends what sort of God you are looking for; as for me God exists because life exists. This is based on the assumption that for life to exist there must be something on earth or the universe that makes life possible, whatever it is, for want of a proper name we call this something God. So, God exist because life exists.
Sure! I can list ALL of the arguments that believers have for their gods. I could debate them all day long.
It still wouldn't be convincing though, because proof of a god or gods does not physically exist. There is no supernatural event that can be proven by natural means.
Anyone with a google search bar can come up with all the statements that believers use. And repeat over and over and over. They memorize all of the dogma that was given to them from birth. They believe sheer repetition makes it all true.
But the only argument worth holding on to is that belief in "God" is a state of mind. And once a believer is thoroughly indoctrinated in the "God Thought", there is no way to argue against it.
God actually exists - in their thoughts and brains!
austin
what is the meaning of state of mind?
State of mind is the status of ones consciousness, as in their perception of the outside world, their perception of their own intuition, and the function of their brain.
Some kind of malevolent, evil being had to create the Brazilian Wandering Spider, among many other natural horrors. Might as well be God.
And bone cancer in children, and the ebola virus, and well, just "everything", right?
No, you can't. You run into an unsolvable paradox.
The unsolvable problem that arises when believing in a deity, like Lord the Almighty, Yahweh or Allah, is that if this creator created the Universe - who created this deity then? Believers argue that the creator is eternal. He was always there and will always be there.
But the moment that believers states this, then why would Humanity have to be created then? Because like Jesus said "the kingdom is inside us", which means in other words that Humans are potential Gods.
And if Humans are potential Gods then they are eternal too - hence not created. This is in my view an unsolvable paradox. Arguing with believers is not possible, because many are not open for this kind of logic and reason.
There's much to say for a fully self propelling fully mathematical Universe, that needs no creating deity at all. This doesn't mean there are no God's in this Universe. There are, but this are no deities one should worship, like the Demiurge - a dark mighty deity that likes to be called Lord the Almighty, Yahweh or Allah.
If Humanity would recognize that every Human being is potentially divine by definition, the world would look far different. That means not worshipping evil deities, but worshipping their fellowman - red, yellow, black and white.
Finally, Atheists do not recognize the mind as a part of divine fabric. Atheist only believe in matter, the sensory tangible, and are therefore in my humble opinion not on the right track as well.
It's true that some atheists only believe in the natural universe, but that is not true of ALL atheists. The only thing ALL atheists have in common is that they don't believe in a god or gods. But should some type of verifiable truth comes along...
Not really no. There are a few concession points for the potential existence of a god/creator/higher being, but none that point to a specific being that surpasses all others thought to exist.
A god could exist. A god could not exist. Creation itself is a convenient excuse for the existence of a god since there seems to be no other evidence that is on par with creation, which in itself could have happened entirely by chance.
I wonder why it matters so much that people obsess over HOW and WHY the universe exists. It obviously DOES exist. Why not live in harmony with the universe?
austin,
I guess people are not obsessed with how the universe existed. But how when or if it will end? people are looking for answers because they fear death. We want to make sure where are we going.
Soraya - there are no guarantees in life. Mankind has no power over the beginning or end of life. And very little control over the present. We are born, we live, then we die. It's the circle of life.
Which god? The Christian/Jewish god (this being a primarily American site, other religions somehow get ignored)? The Islamic god (same character apparently, one that often gets lost in thought while supporters of Islam are seemingly obsessed with their prophet and murdering anyone who is supposed to have insulted him)? How about the Greek pantheon? The Norse Pantheon? The Babylonian deity, Marduk? The Aztec gods, Quetzalcoatl and Huitzilopochtli? The Fijian shark god, Dakuwaqa? The Inca god, Inti? The Indian pantheon?
And that is just a handful. There are thousands of them - those worshipped once by native American tribes, those worshipped by Australian aborigines among them.
Living in Germany, I have recently been reading up on the deities worshipped by the tribes living in what is now Germany between 200 and 700 ADA (the last A stands for the Middle Ages Latin word "allegati" - no need for translation). An offshoot of the Norse pantheon actually, with some variations.
But - to use the vernacular - you can see where I am coming from, can't you?
There isn't a single logical scientific reason why any one of these god or gods can be distinguished as existing if the others don't. It then boils down to belief - and nothing more.
So making any argument for the existence of any god has this problem that cannot be logically resolved. Even if a god exists, a believer would be wrong most of the time.
More importantly for me though is the single word "evidence". For a god to exist we need one of two possibilities:
1. Existence can be proved by sense data.
2. Existence can be proved by testing in a science lab - there we can test for the existence of all sorts of gases which cannot be identified by sense data (even inert gases like helium, radon and neon for example).
To date no evidence for any god has come close to satisfying such tests. All we have is the illogical nonsense about a "supernatural being beyond space and time". Go read Stephen Hawking's works some time (and that will require a long time!), and see how likely that possibility isn't!
So to answer your initial question, my answer is "no", and at the age of 67 I am not expecting it to change during the limited time that I have left before I disappear into the void where we all end up - even the believers.
That's an incredibly tough one, M. T.! Believe me, I've tried this mental exercise many times -- both to test my own conclusions and to try to see how clever I can be. But each and every time, I find some fundamental flaw that undermines the premise.
The closest I've come is when delving into the mysterious world of quantum mechanics, where some of the interactions (such as quantum entanglement and the double-slit experiment) make it seem like there's some external force dictating the behavior. Yet, in the end, all that really constitutes is a "god-of-the-gaps" conclusion which, as history demonstrates, is doomed to eventual failure as science inevitably finds the answer to the mystery.
Of course, the failure to fashion a compelling or convincing argument for the existence of God/gods shouldn't really be that surprising. If I (or anyone else) COULD come up with such an argument, I'd be more inclined to believe!
by Apostle Jack 12 years ago
Atheist say that they can't prove that God do not exist,so.......that make them just as ignorant about the matter as those that they say can't prove that He does.That is a clear view of the Pot calling the kettle black.Do you agree.There is more proof that He does exist than He doesn't.They don't...
by M. T. Dremer 4 years ago
Why would god create atheists who can't be convinced of his existence?
by FootballNut 6 years ago
No matter what way you look at it.If God created life, then Satan the devil was born through God's creation, this makes GOD responsible for Satan's existence. So blame GOD for all things bad, instead of just shouting hallelujah and praising him or her for typical life results.If God did create...
by Keith Schroeder 12 years ago
How would you approach an atheist to talk about God?The goal is to help them find faith.
by ngureco 12 years ago
To You Atheists, If No God Exists To Be Obeyed, How Do You Expect Us To Be Obligated To Be Good...To Other People?
by Mahaveer Sanglikar 4 years ago
Many believers like to say that Atheists should prove that there is no God. Believers should know that existence has to be proved, not the non-existence. If a thing exists, it is possible to prove its existence. So believers should prove the existence of God if he exists. But if they want to do it,...
Copyright © 2024 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
Copyright © 2024 Maven Media Brands, LLC and respective owners.
As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.
For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy
Show DetailsNecessary | |
---|---|
HubPages Device ID | This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons. |
Login | This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service. |
Google Recaptcha | This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy) |
Akismet | This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Google Analytics | This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Traffic Pixel | This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized. |
Amazon Web Services | This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy) |
Cloudflare | This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Hosted Libraries | Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy) |
Features | |
---|---|
Google Custom Search | This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Maps | Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Charts | This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy) |
Google AdSense Host API | This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Google YouTube | Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Vimeo | Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Paypal | This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Login | You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Maven | This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy) |
Marketing | |
---|---|
Google AdSense | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Google DoubleClick | Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Index Exchange | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Sovrn | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Ads | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
AppNexus | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Openx | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Rubicon Project | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
TripleLift | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Say Media | We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy) |
Remarketing Pixels | We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites. |
Conversion Tracking Pixels | We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service. |
Statistics | |
---|---|
Author Google Analytics | This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy) |
Comscore | ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Tracking Pixel | Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy) |
Clicksco | This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy) |