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Where did people get the idea that religious people are judgements?

  1. jackclee lm profile image72
    jackclee lmposted 5 months ago

    In discussion here on hubpages, we hear some accuses religion people of being judgemental and more over accuses religious people of forcing their believes and policies on the American people through laws...
    That is not the religion or people I know. Where is this disconnect coming from?
    Could it be the tactic of non religious people to define the oposition?
    This is a common practice in politics. By defining your opponents, you control the conversation and forces the other side to play defense.

    Religion has been given a bad wrap in my opinion.
    We do not want to judge others, God is the only judge and that happens only when we die and meet our maker.
    In addition, our laws are secular. We have the first ammendment to prevent government intrusion on religion, not the other way around, as some will have you belief.

    1. Live to Learn profile image80
      Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      My observation is that religion does attempt to control politics in this country. Religious people have gotten a bad rap but I've read enough religious comments on hub pages which are judgmental and over the top to understand the validity of some of the complaints.

      1. jackclee lm profile image72
        jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        That may be true but it applies to any large group, especially when their are so many denominations. You can't paint a group with a broad brush. In my religious circles, we don't judge or force our views on anyone. We just want to be left alone. We demonstrate our faith by practice. If anything, it is the aclu types who are trying to create conflict. IMHO

        1. Live to Learn profile image80
          Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          I would agree with you and I've always thought some of the over the top (and what I consider slightly insane) judgmental religious posters on Hub Pages are people posing as such to make the rest of us look bad. But, the damage is done and we all have to deal with the prejudices created.

        2. wilderness profile image92
          wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          I think you very badly underestimate the number of religious people, or churches, that will go to considerable lengths to force their belief onto others.

          It may be through constant barrage of advertising (I can't drive a mile without seeing billboards or other signs exhorting church attendance), it may be through fighting tooth and nail for laws designed to force religious dogma onto others (think gay rights, abortion, and blue laws to start with), it may be by using legal power to prohibit free exercise of belief (think the Kentucky woman refusing to issue marriage licenses).  It might be the Texas school book fiasco, it might be teaching ID in schools as science rather than myth or religion.  It might be skinheads or the KKK using God's Word to promote racism, it might be the use of public resources to promote or aid a specific religion.  Religious discrimination in the workplace is alive and well in my area, where workers must be of a specific faith to hold a job in too many companies.

          Wherever we look we can find, if we are honest about it, attempts by religions and churches to force others to abide by the beliefs of that religion or church.  The religious people I associate with take your tack, and leave others alone (outside of an occasional and rare invitation to worship, which I have no problem with), but there are a great many that just can't leave it be.  They may, in fact, tell you that they have a mandate from God to spread his word and worship, and will make no bones about wanting laws to enforce their god's rules.

          1. jackclee lm profile image72
            jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            Wow, you are lumping a lot of groups there. Most christians in my area keep to them selves. I get a few jahovah witnesses at my door once in a while that's sbout it. As far as law goes, the changes have been coming from the left... such as gay marriage and gender neutral bathroom ... the country is not ready for these open liberal policies.

            1. wilderness profile image92
              wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              Why isn't the "country" ready for those open liberal policies?  Answer; because the churches and religious don't like them.  Few people have any reason, outside of a religious one, to deny gay marriage.  No one has a valid reason for blue laws, but they still exist in some places and come directly from religion.  No one has a valid reason, except for a religious one, for not selling alcohol on Sunday, but a great many places don't allow it.  There are still dry counties in the country...because religion demands it. 

              Many of these laws are long-standing, but that doesn't mean they didn't originate in the church, and it certainly doesn't mean the church isn't fighting to maintain them...for no more reason that they think their god wants them to force everyone into compliance.

              And you still have left the religious icons we all pay for, the forced teaching of myth as science, the removal of atheists from textbooks, etc. 

              You might consider that you may be missing much of these kinds of things because 1) they don't matter to you or 2) you agree with them and thus they don't hit your radar.  But they strike that of other people, and it isn't appreciated.

              A possible example of this thing of going under your radar (I'm assuming you are Christian):  A few years ago I attended a rodeo, put on by the city and held in the city arena.  We were asked to stand and I could see the flag entering - I assumed the national anthem was next.

              But no - the horse rider with the flag stopped and we were regaled for the next 10 minutes or so with a "prayer" telling us we needed to teach our children the glories of God.  Then the flag entered and we had the anthem.

              Now you might enjoy this, or not, but I doubt you would actively object.  But this is a government function, in a government facility - a religious observation being paid for by my city is completely out of line and it was very offensive.  It was offensive that my taxes paid for it, but it was also offensive that I was expected to stand respectively and listen to some yahoo fill the arena with his crap about his god as if it were all true!

              Stripped of the emotionalism, does that make sense - why it might go right over your head, completely unrecognized, but be very offensive to someone else?

              Here's another example: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … anned.html
              where Christian literature was allowed in schools but ONLY Christian.  It should be noted that the same woman has locked horns with the same school later on as the school requires prayer at some school functions...Christian prayer, of course.  http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news … y/9643587/

              1. jackclee lm profile image72
                jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                Just because some ideas or traditions were religious based in the past does not make them less valid. For example, the family and the 10 commandments are rules that are benificial to society. Lying and cheating and not honoring our parents... were deemed detrimental to human relationships.
                The secular groups wants to demonize all religion and religious practices because they don't want to be held to some standards of behavior. This anything goes mentality is what got us here with all the drugs and crimes and fake news...
                I think there is more  to religion than just a faith in a higher power. It is a set of rules and behavior that is good for all people.
                This latest gender neutral bathrooms is a good example where modern thinking is out of whack. We have a two gender/sex biology. No amount of laws can change that. Yes, we have gays and transgenders but they are a small per cent of the population. I don't want to discriminate against them but I don't want them setting the whole culture on its head. Children had a right to grow up in a "normal" environment without being confused at young age about their sexual identity.

                1. wilderness profile image92
                  wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  Oh my - I'm not sure where to start, you're so far off what I consider to be "base".

                  Although I don't sympathize with gender neutral bathrooms, I'll start with the quaint notion that there are but two genders.  We know better, whether religious belief agrees or not.  So how about catching up there, instead of remaining locked to centuries old perverted ideas on anything to do with sex.

                  Moving on to these great rules and laws that are good for "all people".  Like the blue laws, or not selling booze on Sunday.  Like discriminating against gays in housing or other matters.  Like not hiring workers unless you like their religious affiliation.  Like not allowing two loving people to marry because they aren't like you.  Like opposing any reasonable abortion compromise.  Like requiring Christian icons on public property, maintained by public funding.  Like removing holiday observations from schools.  Like allowing parents to deny medical care to ill children.  I could add from other religions, but let's stick to Christianity as that is the biggest problem in the US.

                  These aren't "good for all people"!  They fit with the requirements of specific churches, but that's all - it isn't good for anyone to have stores closed because it's "God's day", or to be denied the right to marriage.  It can only cause harm to people, not good, to teach small children that a myth is actually hard science, discovered using the rules and methodology of scientific investigation.

                  Maybe a comparison: would it irritate you, or other Christians, to require any Christian sect to pay taxes on their buildings and salaries?  To classify church bells as obnoxious noise?  To deny street parking outside a church?  To require churches to fulfill all requirements of other businesses (street lights, security, etc.)?  If we allow public nudity (which harms no one), would it annoy you?  If we require nude swimming at public pools (keep cloth fibers out of pumps and filters) would you be happy?

                  These things are "good for everyone" and "beneficial to society" - would they please you or irritate you?  The people having to put up with ancient, ignorant and often perverted rules from religion feel the same way.  Let religion keep their rules behind their own closed doors and the rest of us continue our lives without interference.  The religiously affiliated are more than welcome to keep their culture, but the "whole culture" you reference most definitely includes other people and their ideas; let them live as they choose without imposing useless rules on them.

                  Finally to say the all secular groups want to "demonize all religion and religious practices" is silly - all they ask is to be left alone, out of the religious rules and requirements. 

                  The "nothing goes" mentality is, after all, what brought about the dark ages when religion held absolute control; it's long past time that such was ended.  (Sarcasm, as the "anything goes" mentality did NOT bring about drugs, crimes and fake news.  Scripture itself gives God's instructions on murdering people of different countries, after all, along with crimes worthy of death such as wearing of different cloths).

                  1. jackclee lm profile image72
                    jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    Wilderness, I can probably write a hub to address each of your points. It is biology that determines sex. It takes two opposite sex to procreate. If evolution is the science that you swear by, not me, gays would be extinct years ago. Right?  Having that is not a reason to discriminate. There are other choices such as civil unions for gays. No need to change thousands years of history to accomodate 3 per cent of population.

          2. Marisa Wright profile image95
            Marisa Wrightposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            +1

    2. Don W profile image82
      Don Wposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Yes but you are not representative of all religious people.

      Some religious people believe women should be stoned to death for committing adultery, which is pretty judgemental. Others believe a same-sex couple should not be allowed to adopt children, which is pretty judgemental too. Some believe that almost 50% of the population cannot be religious leaders, on the grounds that they have vaginas instead of a penis. And on it goes . . .

      For me, what you believe is your business. But as soon as you start trying to make laws that force everyone to live according to your beliefs, that's when people start pushing back, and calling these beliefs out as the nonsense that they are.

    3. lovetherain profile image65
      lovetherainposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Everyone is judgmental. Those who deny it are liars.

      1. jackclee lm profile image72
        jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        Perhaps... that's why we are all sinners. Haha

        1. lovetherain profile image65
          lovetherainposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          What is wrong with judging others?

          1. jackclee lm profile image72
            jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            Matthew 7 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

            3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

            1. lovetherain profile image65
              lovetherainposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              Everyone SHOULD be judged.

              1. Live to Learn profile image80
                Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                Not by humans.

                1. lovetherain profile image65
                  lovetherainposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, by humans. I believe we are also judged by God.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image80
                    Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    Then you do not follow the example of Christ? I assume you then don't call yourself a Christian.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image29
                Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                It is one thing to make adjustments for your own error and mistakes in your own life.

                It is another to judge a whole being like Christain America has by killing a million Iraqi children over in Muslim countries. Or banning Muslims countries who have not killed any Americans on their own soil. Bad bad judgment calls and no forgiveness as they continue to get worst in order to rape and pilliage plus pollute the world for the greedy wealthy and control others.  The greedy and religion work hand and hand regardless of what Jesus was an example of, being an intelligent and spiritual person.

                When the purpose of christains is to over populate the earth. Then the Pope fucks little boys and then the church protects him. Or they kill others greater in the name of God with than any other reasons. When punishments are worst than the crimes here on earth and in hell. Who in the world need these kind of judgmental calls.

                I can forgive them, but can they forgive themselves.  Can Christian learn by adjustment of their mistakes rather then count their sins. Christian group as whole are world champions of producing sins.

                Small adjustments about others and big judgment for your own life is healthy. When Religion judges you and your family and the Universe. Who needs to be a slave by outrageous commands in an already over ego group world. I will take more kindness or love from anyone of any kind, every time.

                1. jackclee lm profile image72
                  jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  Your thinking is all over the place. I take offense to your references to Christians and to the Pope.
                  The Iraq war has nothing to do with Christians.
                  The travel ban is not a ban against all muslims.
                  Why do you insist on propagating false information.
                  You have a problem with Christians and I get it.
                  I am totally fine with it. To each his own...
                  But keep the discussion civil...please.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image72
                    jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    Here is a link to Canada's involvement with the Iraq war -
                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War

                  2. Live to Learn profile image80
                    Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    You can't convince him. He thinks Christians are responsible for all that's evil in the world.

                2. lovetherain profile image65
                  lovetherainposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  Wow. That has nothing to do with me or what I said.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image29
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    I am given you a new way of thinking by adjustments of mistakes and errors rather by sins and judgements by God.

                    You said everybody should be judged by your God. The last Christain died on the cross and ever since this amatuer sharman said many vague things. Greedy kings and wizard of Oz like leaders have been hypnotizing people for their greed and crowed control by fear and punishment. Creating more harm than good and keeping our species from advancing.

    4. Marisa Wright profile image95
      Marisa Wrightposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      I commend you for that attitude.   Unfortunately not every religious person takes that attitude.  What that means is that we only hear from the loudest and most judgmental representatives of religion, and not the tolerant, reasonable people.  Therefore we tend to forget that the tolerant ones exist.

      For instance, I have no idea of the religious beliefs of most of my friends and acquaintances - nor do they know mine. 

      The only time I've discovered a friend's religious beliefs is when they've tried to shove those beliefs down my throat, or have reacted in a bigoted intolerant way to myself or someone in my circle. That means my only encounters with religious people are very negative.  The same goes with religious people in the news or on TV.  It's unfortunate.

  2. Castlepaloma profile image29
    Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago

    Religion and politic go hand and hand in controling the people.

    Then Hierarchy and greed has no bound for a new world order otherwise. If not for a few with grounded good sense..

  3. Castlepaloma profile image29
    Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago

    The greatest judgemental people in the world must be Religious people.

    1. If you don't believe you can not be saved, then go to Heaven.
    2. If you don't believe, your tortured in hell for forever.
    3. The second coming takes Christians and non fornicators to heaven. For the rest of us, we are screwed in hell.
    4. About 90% of World wars in human history are predominatally Religious countries.
    5. A Jealous God, must be the most judgmental thing in the Universe.

  4. Oztinato profile image82
    Oztinatoposted 5 months ago

    So why do 50% of atheists  support a religious fundamentalist as president? Isn't that hypocrisy?

    1. Castlepaloma profile image29
      Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      US atheist is a Religion too, where is the faith in that too.

      A vetern artist like me, has no labels.
      Some think we have a screw loose... Prove it.

    2. jackclee lm profile image72
      jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Which president are you referring to?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image29
        Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        You might have a point there too, it would take a lot of thought to reject God. Trump does not have that.

  5. colorfulone profile image90
    colorfuloneposted 5 months ago

    Romans 13:8-10
    8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love and seek the best for one another; for he who [unselfishly] loves his neighbor has fulfilled the [essence of the] law [relating to one’s fellowman]. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,” and any other commandment are summed up in this statement: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor [it never hurts anyone]. Therefore [unselfish] love is the fulfillment of the Law. ~  Amplified

    The Ten Commandments are a measuring stick that shows us we need a Savior.  Whatever is of lover is of God, for God is love.

  6. psycheskinner profile image79
    psycheskinnerposted 5 months ago

    LOL. They get the impression from the religious people they notice the most, the ones being super super judgemental. Just like religious people get the idea unreligious people are arrogant and out to get them, because some proportion of that group are.

    Not need for complicated theories, people are responding to what they are actually experiencing.

    1. wilderness profile image92
      wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Good point - the squeaky wheel gets the attention and the loudest, most obnoxious of religious or unreligious people get the same.

      1. jackclee lm profile image72
        jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        Though, I am not sure some people understand the difference between judgemental and just pointing out inappropriate behavior. If someone mis treat their kids, and I say something... am I being judgemental or just letting him know he is doing it wrong?

        1. wilderness profile image92
          wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          If you let him know he is wrong, have you not judged him?  And found that, in your opinion, he is doing something wrong?

          Understand, "wrong" (in the ethical sense, not something like mathematically incorrect) is not an absolute, but only a relative.  It depends, always, on an opinion, an opinion of the judge making the call between right and wrong.

          1. jackclee lm profile image72
            jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            I disagree. Not everything is relative. If for example, you son is doing math and said 2+2=5. you tell him the answer is 4. Are you judging him or correcting him for his own benefit?

            1. wilderness profile image92
              wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              I said I was discussing "wrong" in the ethical sense, not in the mathematical one.  There is nothing ethically wrong with getting the incorrect ("wrong") answer to an arithmetic problem.  Or in thinking your car won't start because the battery is dead when it is actually out of gas.  Or in remembering that your old house was painted blue when it was actually red.

              None of these concern ethics or morality at all - just fact, and they can therefore often be absolute.  But ethics cannot, for it is always determined by opinion - no fact need apply.

              1. jackclee lm profile image72
                jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                I used that as an example. There are many ethical matters that are absolute. Lying is wrong no matter how you may interpret it or spin it. That is the difference between people of faith and secular athists or humanist. To those, everything is relative.

                1. wilderness profile image92
                  wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  The only thing that comes even close to a universal moral is the golden rule.  Murder, cannibalism, adultery, dress modes of every possible style including nudity, child abuse, human sacrifice, animal cruelty...all have been "moral" by one civilization and time or another and often not only accepted but demanded by the local gods.

                  No, simply claiming that your faith and belief makes morals, specifically your morals, an absolute doesn't cut it.  It is this very attitude that causes the problems you mention in the OP, where non-believers take offense at believers forcing their belief (morals) onto others.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image72
                    jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    There is no force. The 10 commmandment is God's rule for humans. We are given free choice. We can choose to follow or disobey. The consequences is what we live with.
                    If there are no absolutes, then you have chaos. Survival of the fittest... evolution leads to the conclusion that man can become gods in due time...as we evolve and become more perfect.
                    In reality, we see the opposite. Man has gotten more corrupted with each generation without faith.
                    The future is not bright for secular society. Look at Euope today and this would be our future if we follow in the same path.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 5 months ago

    Morals set forth by religions help us stay in touch with our own God-like natures. Morals are guides to human will. Humans can easily go astray without these helpful guide posts. No one says we have to follow them. They are there for our own good.

  8. Castlepaloma profile image29
    Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago

    Hands down from traveling worldwide. Christains are the most judgmental people I have ever met in life.

    GW Bush said Atheist are not citizens. Also he said God told him to invade Iraq and Americans believed him.

    If you don't put your hand on the bible in a courtroom you will be judged anyways for not believing in the bible.

    I no longer can have a lovers relationship with a christian woman because I can not be saved. Because we do not live on tbe same same page.

    Very few christians actually believe only God judges them and other before the vast majority christians judge everybody first.

    1. Live to Learn profile image80
      Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      What I find priceless is a question is asked about religious people being judgmental and we are all privileged to read post after post of judgments passed against the religious.

      1. wilderness profile image92
        wildernessposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        That's how I read the OP - why do religious people make judgements?  And the answer, of course, will be nothing but judgements - the "why" being asked for.

        1. Live to Learn profile image80
          Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          I suppose, watching both sides in the political forums conduct themselves equally poorly, this is typical of any part of life. Doing as you complain others do.

      2. Castlepaloma profile image29
        Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        I am not against anyone.

        Yahweh is very jealous, condescenting and against even family members if they don't worship him. If you don' t agree with Yahweh you can go to hell.Can you imagine anyone or thing more judgmental. I wish your God (diguise as Christians) would stay out of wars and our bedrooms.

        1. Live to Learn profile image80
          Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          My goodness. Judging others and now condemning an unseen God you don't even know. How high handed.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image29
            Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            I am no better or worst than you or anyone. When it comes to your God, your God is better than my God, so you must be, better than me.

            We are all God, or there is going to be a judgment and conflict.

            1. Live to Learn profile image80
              Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              It seems to me to be logical that there would only be one God so we would all have the same one. We simply perceive it in different ways.

              As to judgment and conflict, I don't think God the author of that.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image29
                Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                You are saying, for most of the people on this planet that disgree that Yahweh is the one and only God. Then it is Yahweh or the Highway. Again, I can not imagine anyone or thing more conflicting and judgmental than Yahweh.

                1. Live to Learn profile image80
                  Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  When the voice of God booms down among all of us to agree with your assessment of God's desire I'll be forced to agree. Until then we remain at an impasse.

                  Edit. I will point out that you attempting to speak for God is as ludicrous as the religious attempting to do the same.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image29
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    I can only speak for myself as a God. The kingdom within. The centre of my Universe as I communcate and share with others, who are king of their domain.

                    As far as a million different Gods fighting over who has the right and only God. I allow them to kill each other in the name of their God. There has been more people killed in the name of their right God than for any other reason in the world. I can"t imagine killing anyone or running out of ideas to kill anyone or be dishonest to anyone.  It is your delustion of your imaginary friend. 

                    Yahweh who kills more people in the name of God/Yahweh than any other reason. The absence of reason is evil and killing is a mental illness. Trump will be counting on it too.

  9. jackclee lm profile image72
    jackclee lmposted 5 months ago

    So if your child play with a match, and you tell him it is dangerous, are you judging him or showing him the way? It is the same with Christians. Judgement implies a penalty, since we cannot penalize people, only a court or God can do those things.

    1. lovetherain profile image65
      lovetherainposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      "So if your child play with a match, and you tell him it is dangerous, are you judging him or showing him the way?"

      This scenario has nothing to do with judgment.

      " Judgement implies a penalty"

      No, it doesn't.

  10. Castlepaloma profile image29
    Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago

    Time and time again. I see Christians stumbling in the dark,  looking for the light.

    1. colorfulone profile image90
      colorfuloneposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Absolutely, it happens.  No one is immune.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image29
        Castlepalomaposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        Most people say they are spiritual rather than Religious, today. We are making some progress. That make us more curious and imaginetive about the world rather than repeating an anicent spirituality filled with conflicts.

 
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