Most predominate religious countries are more war like, yet Religions claim they have the higher moral grounds. USA has 5% of the world population in which is 85% Religious and they have 50% of the world’s military budget. Nuclear war is the greatest threat to mankind and the USA has enough to blow up the world plus they are the only ones who have used them.
USA has 25% of the world’s prisons. Take Japan for example, the 2nd most non religious country in the world has one of the lowest crime rates, why is that? But religious countries have the highest crime rates...
Show me how religious people have higher morals than non religious people. Even better, show me where they have more ethical and better behavior than non religious people?
Those coutries that have little crime probably have a ten times better economy than ours does. It also depends on the lifestyles in each country,
and how people treat each other. The united States Crime has nothing to do with religion. It's all about greed and money. And, a smart crook knows there is more money in crime, then there is in working for living. That, and our justice system goes too easy on criminals. Mainly because of all the lawsuits criminals file against the police when they are mistreated.
All you have to do is go across the border to Canada, and you see a huge difference in everything. The cities are clean, and people are not afraid to walk down the street at night. Detroit and Toronto are both equal in size, and toronto is a beautiful City, with very little crime. I heard 5 murders in a year, compared to Detroit which is a complete dump, where people are afraid to walk down the street at night with over 2,500 murders in a year.
I think the thing is that the people of Canada feel more that their government is working for them, and their safety, and general health, while in the U.S., It is pretty much every man for himself. If you don;t have money. you don't have nothing, and are nothing to a lot of people. So, people in the U.S. are a lot more cranky, and bitter. Unless of course they have always had money, then they think everything is peachy keen. And, that is the reason why there is so much crime, is because the people who think everything is peachy keen, are running the country, and anyone who disagrees with them or is poor, is a second class citizen, and that makes people mad, and agressive. Some turn to crime out of frustration.
Then you have the countries where there is little crime, becaue the people know that breaking the law, might mean a broken nose, as the police have no problem beating the crap out of criminals, and there are no laws to stop the police from doing it. Some countries have caning laws, and some will even break your fingers or remove them if you steal. So, people behave accordingly.
So, it has nothing to do with religion.
Excellent post with many great points. I'd add that Americans are just following their leaders. The leaders are corrupt. The political leaders are corrupt, the churches are corrupt, the police are corrupt, bosses are corrupt as our members of our own families. Our society has learned to accept corruption.
We keep expecting our leaders to fix things, to prosecute the guilty among them, they offer a scapegoat, we burn it in sacrifice and move on, realizing even as we do it that nothing's changed.
Many of our leaders have made it clear that this is an us vs. them situation, and the them are always trying to screw the us. So the us have to fight back against the them. We have to get tough. We have to choose sides and take action. Against each other. We've corrupted the very spirit of our country.
The powers that be sit back and laugh.
They've corrupted us all in the name of greed. Until we realize we're not each others' enemies, we're screwed. Our whole focus is entirely wrong.
Until our leaders realize that they're our public servants, you're right, we're hopelessly enslaved by that thing called government.
Maybe we need to learn to lead ourselves.
I know what you mean.
But, unless people are gonna all follow the lead of their consciences, then.....
It's impossible for people to lead themselves as a group....
There always has to be a leader in some capacity. Don't you think?
There just has to be a shared will for a common goal I think. Leaders will rise to the top, good or bad based on the peoples' abilities to help themselves. The dumber and weaker the people, the more corrupt the leaders and -- resultingly -- the society.
Hey castle. I think our military budget reflects a shift in policy resulting from the horrors we saw europe inflict on the world during the world wars. Europe may seem all fuzzy and warm now, but they weren't always. Our budget, and stance, has been a deterrent that the entire free world has benefited from, at no real cost to them.
As to crime? Look at America. We are truly unique. We are a mixture of people's from all over the globe united by one thread. The desire for personal freedom. The fact that we live together, in a troubled way sometimes, is a modern miracle. We are not a Christian nation. We are a group of free people. More crime may be a result of our differences, maybe the way it is handled by the courts, or simply with the method it is recorded. I don't know. But if there is more crime it does not negate the fact that we are simply a diverse people getting along in a way most countries couldn't imagine.
I see. Guess you do not get to Europe much.
Who was it dropped two Atomic bombs on a civilian population again? Oh yeah - the religious nation.
You are unique all right. You have the most religious population and the highest crime rates.
The two go hand in hand. Religious people are incapable of developing ethics because they have no moral compass.
Disagree. The atomic bombs were necessary because of a war, not of our making. Try to read history. It's pretty black and white on the causes of that war.
As to moral compasses, I think we are in strong disagreement on that one. Religion has problems that need to be adressed. Strongly addressed. But the lack of belief in a god is a slippery slope, as witnessed by events worldwide after the end of the last world war. If you kill off god, man will surely kill himself soon after. This is the least of our problems. Until you face this fact you are doing little more than contributing to the problem. In my opinion.
Dear me. Sorry you do not understand the causes of the war. Or the fact that the Japanese were on their knees when the first bomb was dropped and had surrendered before the second one was dropped. This is what happens when you get your history from Fox news and the History channel.
Have you ever even traveled to Europe?
Man has been killing himself with God for years. God does not exist. I understand why you are so angry you need to attack my knowledge and education. Most religious people are angry - I don't blame you - but I am not the one put this idea in your head. Please educate yourself before making statements about history. There are probably some good books in that library you keep pretending you go to.
But - great job on distracting away from the proven fact that religious people commit more crimes than educated ones.
I understand why - religious peopel are taught that they are incapable of developing their own ethical system, and they do not actually believe in the Invisible Super Being - they just say they do so they do not have to face actual facts - consequently - they are lost. Hence the high crime rates. But - I am open to you explaining why religious people tend to be more criminal if you think there is no correlation.
Yes Mark, I have traveled outside of my country. So sorry I don't use Zeitgeist a my informed source.
Religion has been bloody. As bloody as man can be. Our problem,in my opinion is Man. I'm simply trying to find a fair way to deal with them. I don't want to get rid of all of you. I definitely find their conversations more interesting than women's. Even when they can't see past the nose on the front of their face.
Women can be as violent and aggressive as men. If you had even been to Glasgow on a Saturday night - you would know this. The cat fights are legendary.
Odd - you do not sound well traveled by your narrow minded statements and desperate need to defend your irrational beliefs in the face of actual facts.
Your news sources are quite obviously Fox News and the History channel. I wouldn't imagine you countenance anything else.
But - once again - well done avoiding the actual subject under discussion.
You can't be telling them to be leaving the US and travelling Europe one minute, then recommending a Saturday night out in Glasgow the next. It's just not fair to our American bretheren!
It will do them good. everyone should spend at least one drunken weekend in Glasgow. Very religious in Glasgow as well - she should fit right in.
Haha. You need to keep your mouth shut better about religion than the people on here seem to manage! You don't want to be drinking at the bar of the Orange Arms and spouting off about how all religions are intrinsically good!
Hey. I resent that. Shame on you for insinuating I would fit into a seedy side, drunken weekend. Real mature Mark. sheesh.
How am I avoiding the subject? I agree with you that religion, as it has been practiced, must change, or it will help kill us all. I have a difference of opinion as to how to move forward.
I have traveled, but do not think that understanding the European mind is the path to enlightenment. I have been on all but one continent. It's a big world out there Mark, with big problems. We need to be open to viable solutions.
odd indeed mark.
The second bomb was dropped because experiments are always done twice to compare data. This was a SCIENTIFIC idea, which you lean so heavily on. Science dropped the second one. So i might conclude that science is a killer and those that follow science are no different. Killing has always been a part of science, experimental animals for example. Napalm used in korea.
Like your reality you need to see outside the box occasionally to get the correct information. This is where your atheism leads you astray and this unsaved limited vision dulls the senses. The reason the bomb was dropped in the first place was because of a MILITARY reason. MILITARY. Japans alleigance to germany could not be afforded. God did NOT say to drop the bomb on japan. This is where dull sight blames christianity and i would like to add that angry people who are angry at God always blame God. I believe you fall kersplat right into this definition. The MILITARY decision to drop the bomb did NOT come from God. And the SCIENTIFIC decision to drop the second bomb did NOT come from God.
sorry to nuke this feeble account of Gods murderous nature.
As for the higher crime rate... lets just say that a little evil undoes much good.
Ah - I see. So MILITARY and SCIENTIFIC over ride RELIGION?
Thus religious people have no morals or ethics - money and power are most dear to them. Interesting. It seems you agree with me that religious people have no moral compass. This is what I have been telling you all along. Why didn't you just say so instead of this rigmarole? All the time your country is so religious - you will keep putting money and power as the most important values.
I don't blame your Invisible Super Being for anything. It does not exist. I cannot be angry at something that does not exist. I blame religionists such as your self. If you delude yourself on this - you can be persuaded to accept all sorts of things. Like it being necessary to drop an atomic bomb on a civilian population.
I don't lean on science at all for my moral guidance. That is just an assumption by religionists who wish to attack something they cannot understand. As you keep telling me - you cannot understand why anyone would reject the complete lack of morals and ethics that go hand in hand with believing in Invisible Super Beings.
when you get off the ropes feel free to actually say something.
I will never agree with you about the moral compass thing. The fact that you consider yourself better than christians make me laugh, at you not with you.
This once again, pompous post shows me again why i never respond to you.
good luck with your management
All countries should be secular; non-discriminating among humans on account of religion, ethnicity or language; church should be separate from the state.
The united states is not a christian nation. There are big churches but with false messages being preached. The rulers of the country are far from christian. Gods rules are not in effect. If we go back in time there were people who said "god bless you" often, prayer was in school, Everybody had a church and the spirit of the U.S (and the world in general) was very different, kinder, a handshake cemented a deal, etc and this was because was dominant in the minds of the people. Prisons have become an institution which employs people and it is an industry in the states; a means of controlling population - a tool if you will.
When looking at natural disasters we see that countries who worship a false God or no God are plagued with distressful weather.
We look at china and see that although it is nonreligious they imprison people for religious beliefs taking away freedom of religion and they have a state church called "the three self church". devilry at work.
Looking to the states again and their military budget. We must remember that being a member in the United Nations delegates roles that countries play in war situations. The UN is not an institute of God and now that land issues are resolved across the globe there is actually little use for war except that greed and other sordid fleshly pursuits fuel the war engine.
We really cannot say that because statistics say 85% religious that a christian country is connotative and certainly not that they follow to the letter the ways of jesus. Surveys are most often inaccurate, assembling this and that and these and those.. and certain percentages of people respond while the ones who should have responded, didnt.
These statistic of War and Crime treaded are well known and easy enough to access. Religion and political leaders have always turned a blind eye, and protected every conceivable evil known to mankind and always hide the responsibly, until Global public opinion and people change it, as always throughout human history.
USA is about 78% Christians, so who will always be voted in as president, not an atheist or Muslim nor a non Christian. In 1965 there were only 65 countries that had USA military bases, today there are 200 countries with US Bases. We know it will all fail soon enough like Nazi's and Roman’s
I cannot let this post go unchallenged.
We are a secular society for a reason. Primarily because of statements such as these. Who determines God's rules? The evangelicals? The Catholics? The muslims? The atheists? The pantheists? Or any of a host of people with diverse opinions on the subject? You cannot ignore what is in the common good, simply because of personal belief.
No one is stopping anyone from praying in school. The problem I see is when people don't want to do something alone, they attempt to force others to do what they believe is right. If you don't feel comfortable being yourself, you do not have a right to shove your opinion of right onto another person, in a free society.
This is, without a doubt, one of the most horrible claims a person who claims the name of Christian can make. God does not punish innocent people through weather patterns, or natural disasters. Nor is a cancer patient paying for some sin. This is the world we live in.
This has nothing to do with devilry, it is all to do with suppression of basic human rights. That is not a supernatural phenomena.
With 7 billion people on this planet and, if I remember correctly, 1.7 billion identifying themselves as Christian, where would be the fairness in letting our personal idea on the nature of God rule this assembly?
I agree with you that greed is the primary problem, but that sin does not elude the average Christian either.
The problem with the letter of the ways of Jesus is that there is apparently a very wide gap in opinon of what those ways are.
God does not punish innocent people through weather patterns, or natural disasters. you forget sodom and gomorrah
If you don't feel comfortable being yourself, you do not have a right to shove your opinion of right onto another person
who says these people dont feel comfy? oh right that is your opinion shoved down on to these people.
Nor is a cancer patient paying for some sin
God is forever and fervently trying to get people to come to him. Whats the saying, "you have to be low to look up". God will use whatever method he has to if he sees a heart that is promising to Him. Many christians face cancer, imprisonment, Paul had his fair share of troubles, with storms and shipwrecks, whippings... think on these things.
the label i choose to put on things is the label i choose to put on things.
If you were acquainted with my hubbery you would realize i do not account satan or devil with the supernatural. They are metaphors. devilry is used quite often to refer as fleshly manifestations of which suppression of human rights is mans doing through the flesh. So you misinterpreted me there also.
a very wide gap in opinon of what those ways are
yes. If we give God a couple of hours on sunday and maybe 3 more in the week we will indeed wonder what those ways are. BUT to the humble few who study to show themselves approved of God and seek His face, they will know and blessed be those who hear the words. The bereans sought the scriptures daily to see if paul was correct. How about a little prayer and searching before you refute me.
Reality refutes you. The reality of the world as God made it to be. I could pray on it, but it wouldn't change the facts. So sorry.
Sorry to hear. you may not recall the flood of noahs time or most of the book of revelation.
A christian life without prayer is equal to a person working under their own strength, which is not a biblical pattern and is not approvable unto God. This is the problem with many who think they are christians, they prefer to lean to their own understanding.
I can only assume the intent of your post is to impy that I only think I am Chrisitan. Although it has always amused me when Christians jump to this conclusion about another, it is not outside of the bounds of what has, sadly, become normal Christian behaivor within the fundamentalist movement.
I will conclude this by saying that your brand of faith is little different from the brand of faith we see espoused by the radicals in the MIddle East. It leaves no room for God to show his Love of this world. It is entrenched in a mentality better left in the ancient world it was born in.
Jesus did not teach this message. If you would open your eyes, and stop letting others tell you what to think, you could see the message of the scripture that was meant to show us a better world.
that wasn't my intent at all. If you want to take the generality personally i wouldn't advise it.
the work of the holy spirits conviction is not devilry. If you think there is no love in what i say, that might be your personal interpretation or it depends on the post i am replying to. The mere fact i bother is love and love does what love does, reprove, edify, teach, correct etc. If i get a post that comes across as negatively factual like beelzy and mark i will respond in like manner. If some people put out something that contradicts scripture i will try to be firm in correcting that.
But to say i tell people what i think is wrong. The truth is there in the word, its just that many simply react and do not ponder long enough or study to show me wrong. I study the scriptures and ask God. Mainstream christianity is wrong in many areas and people who are not catholic are saturated with catholic doctrines. This i have elaborated upon but often people feel comfy with their 'taught' doctrines so i am not surprised. I do not seek a following because that is not my purpose. I tell and i let God speak to those that God can speak to. Is this not the work of the Holy Spirit?
The topic of this thread does not need love nor is it indicative of wanting a better world and yet a better world is getting the scriptures right.
I'm afraid the truth you see has been twisted so much by man that the beauty of God's plan has ben wrung out of it. There was a time, when I first joined these forums, that I prayed for the atheists to open their eyes to reason, but I have found there are blinders enough for all of us. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Always.
I believe, without a shadow of a doubt, if this fundamental brand of Christianity is not forced to rethink their archaic stand they will help to push the message of Christ from the world stage. Which would be to the detriment of all.
God will reveal Himself, in His own good time. Until that time, His interests would be better served if we all stopped fighting over interpretation and took the time to live the message. The bottom line message is Love. Until I see this differently, I will speak out against anything I see as not sharing that with the world at large.
so next time a post comes out we should all just say loudly.. God loves you! and while this is true we must not forget that this is a small part of the christians life. I indeed have a wonderful spiritual life in case you are wondering.
Revelation has always been part of Gods plan. The word of God throughout time has been revealed layer by layer. The earnest man who studies and obeys gets so much of Gods goodness while the rest of the unlearned merely balk at his revelations. This has been the case with every good preacher. Christ had marvellous NEW revelations that he preached and if he was barely listened too, how much less anyone else.
The answers we seek are all in God, so i suggest often, that people go there for answers.
Btw your speaking out against anything you see as not sharing that with the world at large, does not speak tantamount about love. You become the thing you don't like. Since love is so important I might remind you that love is a fruit of obedience to the spirit or living in the spirit. We cannot just run around saying love, love, love. Oh i love jesus.. jesus said.. if ye love me ye will keep my commandments.
I am firm with my love stance but when conversing with atheists it is just best to meet them on their own terms, which is the situation in hubpages. If a change of heart appears, well, one reaps what they sow often huh.
Good luck with this dilemma.
I am signing out of this forum
over and out.
I see from your response that you are claiming divine revelations,. I wouldn't dream of commenting on that. As to your love comment, I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm not well received by the atheists either. Just because I choose humor, instead of hellfire does not make me wrong. It makes me different, which I see is not allowed within your particular brand of religion.
Thank you, for wishing me luck. The best luck I could have is if the message as given by Christ were listened to.
I believe we're still a Christian nation.
The liberal secular element is trying to change that, as are outside influences, but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, I think our foundation is still there. Even though it is being chipped away at every chance the naysayers get...
Why do non religious countries have the lowest crime rates?
Crime is a reported statistic, so I guess it depends on where exactly you are getting your information from to begin with.
Crime rates with regards to religious countries? You're kidding right? All a religious country does is steal from one for the other, so the many can survive. It dictates way of life without letting one to decide for itself, whether or not, which is better.
Interesting post though.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. It's not the religiousness of a country that dictates crime, but the infrastructure, wealth and system of law. In most developed countries, the trend is that with greater wealth and development, the religousity of the country falls - this is nearly always the case.
Quite why the USA bucks the trend is an absolute mystery. Particularly to us baffled observers across the pond! I've no doubt that the religious ferver in the US will eventually subside.
subside...well it would get worse...usa is seeing economical decline and during economic down times , people tend to get more religious , seeking outside intervention...more and more people are talking about end times ,prophesy and such stuffs....
Ah, but South Korea also has a very low crime rate and is generally extremely Christian. I think in this case and Japan's it's probably more to do with the culture of not reporting certain crimes because they will "bring shame upon you".
The non religious countries tend to encourage a rational approach to raising children, educating them, and correcting deviant behavior in their justice systems. This means that the people of these countries tend to focus less on issues of good and bad and right and wrong and more on issues of what works and how to best correct mistakes in a rational manner.
Parents, teachers, and a justice system that are based on punishing people for their mistakes tend to reinforce unwanted behavior. The more people are labeled as bad and criminal the more the labels stick. Parents also use ineffective methods based on their sense of justice rather than a sense of what methods actually work. America imprisons more people than any other country, yet the crime rates continue to grow more and more.
The school system has become one of zero tolerance and children who misbehave are rarely taught how to behave effectively they are simply excluded. Even the term zero tolerance sounds like something that has zero chance of working. Their is little focus on restitution and raising the whole child. Countries that take the time to study what actual works and apply these approaches to parent education, the school system and the justice system will always have lower crime rates and other social problems than countries in which parenting, education, and the justice system are based on simplistic moralistic notions of good and bad and right and wrong
Isn't the Vatican the country with the highest crime rate? And the lowest age of consent (12).
Good question. I think religious ideology is the source of many misconstrued ideas and those who do not conform in countries where it is the social fabric are subconciously deemed sinners and cosequently assume such behaviours.
Not one religious person here has really challenged, if non religious people are less ethical or less moral than them. Yet, Religious types insists the higher crime rate in predominate religious countries has nothing to with Religion. That means religious people here say it’s all coincidences... I say it’s all co-in -sides.
1. USA is 78% Christian, yet many here say it not a Christian nation, and then blame their highest crime acts internal and external on greed. The scriptures in the bible have 7 times more Financial quotes than quotes about heaven and hell combimed
2. Predominate religious Americans, have 50% of the total war budget of the world, is this ethical or co-in -sides with other predominate non religious Countries?
3. Drugs and alcoholic related to most crimes, Sheboygan Wis USA has the most bars and churches per capita than anywhere in the USA. Coincidences or co-in -sides?
4. Predominate religious USA has 5 times (per capita) or more prisons than non religious countries, coincidences or co-in -sides?
People often will become whatever is expected from them, I agree with that. It's a shame really, for all of us.
Not in agreement or disagreement.
I would however like for some sources. Just out of curiosity.
Why do non religious countries have the lowest crime rates?
I don't think it is a scientifically proved thing.
It is generally the case though:
Scandinavia, Baltics, France, Japan, South Korea, UK, Czechs, New Zealand, etc. All have exceptionally low levels of crime and also belief.
There is the odd country that skews theses stats in former communist countries; Vietnam, Albania, Mongolia etc.
I've argued earlier in this hub that the trend in non-religiousity is down to development of infrasture, wealth and law. Religion generally dies out in enlightened and developed nations over time and I think this is what's going on here. I don't think they are inextricably linked.
Just think of all the time, energy, thought, emotion and MONEY wasted in our world over just the last 10 years because of religious ideology. Not just the wars, the legal battles at the state and federal levels, the PACs and special interest groups, the media, us, our elected officials, sitting around, on our dollar, debating whether or not gays can marry.
It's a huge waste of resources.
I'm right with you; I think it's absolutely disgraceful that it's just possible to declare yourself a religion and effectively set up a business without paying any tax, for instance. However, whether it is because people are religious that crime tends to occur more frequently is a bit of a leap from there.
I'd have thought we're putting the cart before the horse. Surely people tend to be more religious whether there is more lawlessness and less enlightenment, rather than the other way round.
If you look at a couple of the countries cited as non-religious; Mongolia, former Russian Soviets, Vietnam, Albania etc. You would see a high level of crime, but a relatively low level of development compared to Western Europe (for example).
On your other points though, I agree that religion stifles development for the most part.
Human being learn from one another; therefore it is perfectly normal to investigate how these countries have been able to control the crime rate viz a viz other countries which have higher level of crime. Humanity is to be saved from the devastations of another Third World War; peace must prevail by all good means.
From my studies, Religion has more cons than pro's wail on earth and I really do not understand the fight club conflicts with everyone else.
That will be another thread later on, towards the whole purpose of Religion.
Don't get started on how negative hell is, the worst concept ever.
I think it has more to do with Culture than religion.
The Japs are so repressed and cold.
Have you ever seen the "fan-service" and "lolly" in their Anime.
Especially the whole sexy school girl image.
The Japanese are emotionally repressed. Even in their homes where they should be able to relax and express themselves, they don't. That is not to say it is wrong, it’s just culturally different.
I've read that once a wife has children she basically ceases to be a wife and devotes all her time and attention to her children. Western men married to Japanese women find this difficult.
The Japanese religion is complicated. I think that before WWII Buddhism was a dominant religion (which espouses non-violence). The Government of the day was faced with the dilemma that they couldn't wage war, so they revived and supported Shintoism. It was made the official religion of Japan. This allowed them to focus on defending the Holy Emperor and expanding the Empire.
I think today Japanese religion is probably a mixed bag of Buddhism and Shintoism.
Maybe the Japanese are just to busy working hard to have time for violence and crime.
I think today Japanese religion is probably a mixed bag of Buddhism and Shintoism.
Asians do consider these religions
Oh definitely, there are just less distinct boundaries. Some rituals are Buddhist (funerals for example) and some Shinto (birth etc). Its like Taoism and Confucianism in China.
i think there is a big difference between being religious and being God fearing!
If such a big difference, can you explain it?
If such a big difference, can you explain it?
Castle- I like to hear it too?
My anwser would be, I find everyone is god, so what is there to fear?
being religious is just following the tenents laid down by your religious leader depending on your religion and being God fearing is just trying to be like him without necessarily following the religious laid down rules.
To me, fear is just the unknowns, it's a matter of time to understand.
To fear God because of wrong translations of Jesus, is sad.
But, that is one and the same. You can't "be like him" unless you have read the "tenets" of your religion. One ultimately must follow the other.
Religious people are NOT more ethical or more moral than people who are not religious. They are just taught that and brainwashed to believe that.
75% of Americans are Christians.
75% of the inmate population are Christians.
3 - 9% of Americans are atheists.
Only .1% of inmates are atheists.
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