What would it take for people to get along. Thank God that even atheist believe that it is NOT okay to kill or murder etc.
Really I just scratch my head. On Hp, of course Mark and Amanda are just saying whatever, voicing their opinions etc. as we all want to and I wouldn't be afraid of them or think bad of them if I met them out of the streets.
I have talked to Mark away from HP and Misha, and Jenny and Mohit and LG and Mike and Jeromeo (who hasn't been here for a while) and several others and each one is dynamically different.
Mark sides with the notion that the Bible was supposed to make you a stronger better person on your own without God being around. I actually agree, actually we agree on most things and we just chat for the sake of chat (so I think) and no hard feelings.
Misha, I love Misha, did you know that Misha is a saint? He helped me for some time when I was having a very hard time and I am grateful to him for everything he has ever done and all the time he took just to talk to me whenever I needed to talk.
And Lady G. Sometimes I am like whaaa is she saying now. lol. But still I love her, she is sweet and we talk all the time and she helps me too. She gives me practical advise and comfort when I need it and she doesn't hold a grudge off hp.
And of course Jenny! who doesn't just love Jenny. I would think you were strange to not love her. lol.
And Mike, he has a good heart, he is open minded no matter what you guys think about him. He continuously makes effort to understand things spiritually or otherwise and I respect that and I respect his Catholic beliefs and really didn't understand Catholicism until I started to listen to him and talk to him and let him explain.
Jeromeo, Is the local Hp, JW and a lot of people cannot stand JW's and I have heard even Christians say they are the devil and stay away from them, yet from talking to him often he actually shows so much restraint and respect for my opinions and thoughts and I do for him as well because we live under the understanding that it is not about the religion but it is about love and respect and trying to be better people.
And EngM. He has got to be the nicest and most open minded Muslim I have ever had the pleasure of speaking with. He ask questions, he never fights, if he hears something interesting he looks into it yet he will not say he doesn't believe in God either.
So here is a group of diverse people with different beliefs and thoughts and opinions that I just love regardless even when they get pissy with me. lol because each one of them is a good person and each one will take their time to humor or talk to me if I need it... even Mark.
So I can't understand why there isn't a compromise. We know that we are all perfectly capable of getting along and we all know that not every death was on behalf of religion or the lack thereof. Each can plainly see that with or without a belief, we all act the same when it comes to our passions... except for Misha because he just likes to be happy and flirt with the girls and stay on a neutral ground unless of course something is just really funny and he says something sarcastic, but I do to, so...
So what's the deal? Why not at least humor each others beliefs instead of being mean to each other? I aint perfect of course and I have got a mouth on me every now and again too.
I guess what I am saying is that the only thing that changed about me in the way I talk on the religion forum isn't so much that I have changed but because I decided that I would stand up for Christians (no matter how off the wall some can get at times) because at some point I saw that it was a free for all against them and anything was allowed, degradations, humiliations etc. and even though they know this is inevitable I couldn't with good conscious just look the other way.
I have laughed along side most of you at some Christians but that was before I realized the impact that hp was having on them and the amount of "clicks" that developed and how even when they are speaking to themselves... Mark LOL, they just want to do that and if someone says okay I will have a listen, how sad it became to see that more and more people were very uninterested in what they feel or believe but more and more interested in making fun of them regardless.
There has to be a way for us to get along. Maybe we could call a truce or something. I dunno. But you cannot expect a believer to not talk about their beliefs or religion on a religion forum and you cannot expect non believers to not address why they do not believe, however maybe we could work on the things that we have in common and find a compromise so that we are speaking for the causes we find good together.
That doesn't mean because you believe God is good that that is something we have convince someone else about, but if we all believe that killing is bad and war is bad and letting people starve is bad etc. maybe we could focus on that and just accept each others views or inspiration.
-sorry so long.
Weird. I offered you a truce some time ago. - You stop telling me you have all the answers and your god tells you them into your head. I stop laughing at you.
As I recall, that was not acceptable and you argued that you should be able to knock on doors to push your irrational beliefs - because it is for my own good. Hmmmm. Not seeing any compromise there.
How about you stop pushing your beliefs and I stop laughing at them? Sound good as a compromise?
WHAT is your problem RK. This is all Sandra said about Jenny.
I don't agree with some of the things Jenny says myself but it is not too hard to tell that she if very intelligent and well read. I respect her and that is exactly why Sandra started this thread, to try to bring some respect to these forums.
RK I didn't notice your name in Sandra's OP, maybe that is the problem? Or maybe your problem is with a reply Jenny gave to one of your posts ions ago? Whatever the case, you need to grow broader shoulders to post in these forums my young friend.
Sandra this web site talks about dusting off your feet a few times.
It's not my shoulders I'm worrying about. It's not even Sandra's. I just think she needs to be careful. She started a forum post solely to promote herself BY commenting on other people. She made an INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC FORUM about other hubbers. She set herself up, but most importantly she set up those other HUBBERS- messing with their business. That's not cool. But thanks Mike, at least I APPRECIATE what you have to say.
What if it isn't like that at all? I mean, what if Sandra has a clear motive and just really genuinely wants everyone to get along? What if, RK? I mean, it is possible, right. Here's what I think: at least is noble as it is, the motives are however inconsequential.
Yes a compromise is possible.I am a believer and I have made friends or peace with people here who are non believers.We joke with each other today about our beliefs pull each others legs in a nice way
"its through love and not terror does the One get tame."
"The only way you can conquer me is through love and there I am gladly conquered" Krishna
I would add "the only way I can conquer is through love" irrespective of that persons belief.
Nice post, Sandra
It is one of the limitations of the internet, that makes it very difficult to express an opinion, without the cues of body language or facial expressions.
I am pretty sure that if everybody was sitting at a table drinking coffee, that some enlightening conversations would develop.
Not sure if a truce is ever going to happen on HP, but that does not mean that you should not try!
Must agree with you - I like everybody on your list - there are many good people there
Oh smite me for forgetting you Sufi!!! How could I forget the one who dedicated an olive to tree in my name. I am pretty sure that if we all sat around a table we would have some very enlightened conversation as well as laughs.
Thank goodness Countrywoman doesn't drink so she could watch after us.
Screw offering a truce and not having someone take it, Mark.
You've always been willing to work together with those who are willing to work together, right?
So put some pride away, just for today, and say "thanks sandra, that was a great idea!"
Or not, your choice. I mean, you do have some valid points.
I for one, am down with a truce, though, who ever wants to proclaim it, 'cause my name won't live through out time.
I'm of the oppinion our differences are meant to define us, not seperate.
Sandra, your opening statement.
"Thank God that even atheist believe that it is NOT okay to kill or murder etc."
Are you implying that to be an atheist is some sort of handicap when considering morals?
No person has ever offered a sensible answer to any of the hard questions Mark has asked, and quotes from the bible just don't carry any weight with some of us, as we read it and came to different conclusions to you. I for one am not about to believe in any invisible entity either.
Seriously Earnest, you picked that part out of the whole thing? It's an expression. I wouldn't be offended if you said thank whoever that she has enough sense to know that it is not okay to kill or murder etc.
My op already said you don't have to believe what I believe but if we are in agreement about some very important things right here and now, then why aren't we working with each other?
Here's the deal....if I answered any of your questions, and I conflicted, who would be wrong? You, or me? Well, I'd be wrong to you, and quite possibly, you'd be wrong to me. Or vice versa.
Problem is, so many are looking for a fight.
Sandra is not.
And I'm pretty derned sure, Mark is not.
So, next round please, looking for some intriguing questions.
OH, I believe GM (right?), or lxxy, that YOU are not looking for a fight.
The problem here is not about middle ground, either--that's another logical fallacy which draws its power from the fact that a moderate or middle position is often the correct one. For example, a moderate amount of exercise is better than too much exercise or too little exercise. However, this is not simply because it lies in the middle ground between two extremes. It is because too much exercise is harmful and too little exercise is all but useless. The basic idea is that moderation or middle ground is correct because the extremes are typically "too much" and "not enough" and the middle position is "enough."
But this isn't true, either, as, uncritically assuming that the middle position must be correct because it is the middle position is sometimes poor reasoning...I.e, there do exist some Christians who believe atheists can have universal standards of ethics. So that this is not a case for any middle ground to be reached. As some (many) people stay out of the religion forums because of the slightly 2-dimensional scope of the arguments here. Many outside of it just >might< be seeing in 3D, so to speak.
Your prove a lot of points. But your first mistake is assuming I take a middle ground. I take no ground. I am, using you. You are..using me, isn't this how communication is supposed to work?
I'm asking innocent questions, prodding in an innocent way. Or at the very least, so unassuming silly, you'd have a lot to say about my sanity, much less my assumptions.
I've no assumptions, Lita. I've questions, and I think I may have the answer, but so does everyone else who feels like contributing to any line of conversation such as this.
But I'm not taking a middle ground. I am not a moderate, and I've a lot of crazy whacked out views, and I share them in a non-threatening manner, or in a way I hope no one views as a "sane" one.
The problem is, as you're so quick to point out, a person of middle ground is uncritical. I am critical. I'm just not critical of any one person, or their family, circumstance, whatever. I don't care who it is you are, what you look like, or where you come from. I'm critical of society, of actions in general.
So, maybe I'm just that "3D" you mention. Probably not, I suppose, because maybe I can't convince anyone of these very words.
But just know, I'm not here to propagate anything less than honest intention. Apathy is "ehh, well, I won't make a comment.."
I do comment, because I do critique, I just don't bother causing strife..or I try not to, anyway, because again, it's just static.
Rust in the wheels of truth.
LOL. It is the very FIRST thing you say.
If it's an expression, then maybe it's an expression you need to unlearn. It might be what's stopping you from finding a compromise or a middle ground in which to communicate with people who have different opinions and beliefs than yours.
HI Sandra..... I have always enjoyed your comments on the forums, maybe it's just time to wipe the dust off your feet and move on....
As long as it depends on you be peaceable to all men, and you certainly do that......xxxxxxxxxxx
Yeah Brenda may have a point here Sandra. We might as well just dust off our feet, ignore the attacks, offer a prayer for them and carry on undisturbed by it.
I think it was a gallant effort to try to find some respect in these forums though.
It always seems to come down to the fact that the "believers" can't just keep their beliefs to themselves. They have to start "sharing" and, well, the rest is what happens. They are so full of what they "know" and "understand" that they open themselves up to opposition, which then, apparently, requires compromise. My thought is that if religions kept to themselves, there would be no need of compromise on that particular ground.
(I really hope nobody tries to counter this in the dumb way that a surface reading will invite. Not sure I'll be able to hold back.)
So you are saying that the only middle ground or compromise to be found or made is if we believers never talk about what we believe?
If this is a request that you find good for middle ground then what would happen if I asked someone of a different perspective to do the same thing?
But the "middle ground" you want is to be able to keep on sharing your beliefs - but not have any one disagree with them.
I notice a lot of that from believers lately.
"Why can't you leave us alone to spread the love of god?"
"It doesn't matter how many people get annoyed when god botherers knock on their door. It is for their own good."
"OK - evolution does happen, but why can't we have started with perfect humans like it says in the bible?"
"Here is some scientific evidence that a priest made up which proves the big bang did not start everything."
"Why can't we just have a compromise and agree that there are just different opinions here, and although we believers are right, maybe it would be the loving thing to do if you stopped telling us we are wrong, because that is just hateful and negative?"
What you do not seem to get is that the very second you say "This is god's word and I know it is true," you remove all room for a compromise.
I agree we both agree of some key issues. The difference is - I came to the conclusion that it is wrong to murder people all on my own. You came to the decision because it says so in your book from god. And there is a lot of stuff in that book that I do not agree with.
I love it when people tell me what I am thinking. Makes me feel good to be alive. Thank you Ms Troll.
Seriously - I would really enjoy a good argument with you, but you insist on inane one liners with almost no content. If you have something to say - please feel free and I will explain just how ignorant and uneducated you are.
But you really need to give me something to work with. Go on - express an opinion of some kind that warranted a little thought on your part and I will cheerfully educate you as to your obvious failings.
Well then, sorry to disappoint you since I didn't tell you what you are thinking. I said you did not come to the conclusion that it is wrong to murder people all on your own. If you think about it for a second you'll admit that I'm right.
Your fear of any religion other than the worship of your own ego aside, this shouldn't be too hard for you to grasp.
Don't let your fear or your dislike for me stop you from thinking. If you love it when people tell you what you are thinking, you have to actually think first to give them (whoever they may be) something to work with.
No fear - disdain maybe. I have thought about it for a second and you are dead wrong. Judgmental and hypocritical also. feel free to look those words up.
I recommend the Oxford English dictionary. I know, they have big words, but maybe you will learn something. Or not.....
Oh? So you were born directly into an isolation tank and have stayed there ever since? At least you get the internet in there now.
No family, no education, no community of any kind ever affected you in your life. That's kind of sad (and kind of impossible).
Most people would have gotten the point by now, but...
Well, your point is pretty obscure really. Which of these things means there is a god?
I guess you are too ignorant to be able to understand so I will 'splain it simple as I can fer ya.
Me - Mark. Sees and hears other opinions. Makes own mind up what it right or wrong and what is complete BS. Does not blindly follow some other opinion.
Think for yourself. Too hard to grasp? Stick with what mummy dun tole ya not work fer me.
Couldn't have said it better, although, that goes true for some scientists and their theories, too.
Yeah, lol, but GM, you failed to read this:
"OH, I believe GM (right?), or lxxy, that YOU are not looking for a fight."
Exempting you from the fight or fight for middle ground here. But that's OK...you got to point out some crazy, whacked out views. lol (You forget, I somewhat get you already. Remember the 'Buddha' conversation?)
I've just finished reading Sandra newest hub and saw a few comments were posted here. I've never surfed over to forum's mainly because of lack of time or care. Though I am glad I did today. I am of the opinion that there will never be a compromise on the grounds of fanaticism on both sides. I am a fight starter by my own nature. I start fights and trash religion because of my first 25 years of life were hell because of religion. I personally enjoy making people uncomfortable with my views. Blasphemy is a wonderful way of finding out who the true believers are. I don't enjoy making people that don't bother me with their beliefs and respect the true Christian's that lead by example and not shout it from the roof tops. But yes, when you start "praying for me" and trying to tell me that my years of training in geophysics as well as working with bones of things much older than most can imagine are false. I get hostile and enjoy throwing your religious quotes right back at you. Religion for me was the most unhappiest time of my life. From years at catholic school, being in choirs, coaching E.V. free's, leading FCA, and all the other churches and religion's I went towards turned to pure hell. To me, religion and the slavery it instills is the true evil. So to make this incredibly long story short, I will compromise but never back down because the religious fanatics won't either. And to me that is the problem for us all. No respect from either side.
Sandra, I like you. But seriously, why couldn't you have just PM'ed these people you think so highly of, and sent them this thing you've created? Not everyone feels like you. Jenny? According to measure of accountability, I must have something wrong with me, because I don't feel the same way YOU do about Jenny! What were YOUR words, "who doesn't like Jenny?" Do you really want to know that answer? Is it fair to Jenny to be blasted by me or someone else? I take offense. Another thing, Misha? Misha? The hater? Great he's been there for YOU. I'm thrilled for YOU! He ain't been there for a lot of OTHER people here on hubpages. I find this whole text you've written to be offensive and crap!! Are you still in high school? Because that would explain a lot. I'm highly offended by this propaganda you've written. This thing isn't about compromise. It's about you making amends, friends, sucking up - or whatever!!! Next time, keep the rest of us out of it, and YOUR personal accusations that something MUST BE WRONG with US, if WE don't like the people that YOU do!!!!!
By the way, I don't like squaring up with people who demand sides, make personal testimonies such as this crap and make personal innuendos as to "what" must be because YOU think it so!
Thanks, but no thanks. You can check me off your list.
Yeah, I agree with you. I wasn't completely sure about why or what this forum post was even being written for. It sounded like a personal message that should have been sent too. I'll save my comments about these hubbers named to myself. But I'm like you, this post was a little offensive to me also. From what I've read maybe this was an attempt to promote one of her hubs. If so, I think it a poor attempt. Maybe she should use twitter if she wants more traffic. You can clearly see that I'm completely confused by all this, and don't really liked how she was implying that there must be wrong with some of us- if we didn't run in the same circles as she did. Sorry Sandra, for me this blew up in your face. Peace with you and good luck next time at making an attempt to comprise.
Okay RK, you have a point but what do you want me to say? You know I didn't mean it that way. I can't believe it is so offense.
And Intimate Evolution, the only things that blew up in my face are the people that got angry with the op.
Just so you know - I was not angry or offended. You said what you think - I disagree with much of it - but still.
So - what did you think of my earlier suggestion of a compromise?
I forget what your suggestion was. Sorry can you tell me again.
You stop telling me you have the word of god - I stop disagreeing with you.
It's all so deceptively simple, isn't it? Strife and all that..
And I never said I have the word of God. Please find any instance where I have said this then I will apologize with all sincerity.
If believing to you means that I, myself insist that I have the word of god, then that is something I cannot change but those aren't my words.
Ah - so what do you have exactly? Because not so long ago you were asking us to "Give god a chance" and follow his ten simple rules (which turned out not to be so simple after all):
Yes, it was a question, what if? How that thread got to be so nasty too is beyond me. It was a question. But you are right indeed, not so simple.
But still did I say, "I have the word of God"?
Well, there is an assumption here. You are saying "give god a chance, and here are ten simple rules to follow," - what is that if not the word of god?
Well you are basing your assumption off the title of the tread an not the op itself.
Oh really? Gained any fans over this forum post? Lost any fans? How about creditability? Don't care about these things? Then why are you writing posts like this and what are you doing here in the Hubpage forum? No see, I do think you care! I think it blew up in your face. Maybe, you're too blind to see it. That's my opinion and I'm not going to fight over it either. If you can't see this was a really stupid thing to write, then sister I feel bad for you.
well you certainly know how to tell me you hate me. Do you hate me? Oh darn!
What are you doing on a religion forum? Starting fights possibly with people who dont believe like you do? Oh poor baby. You need a tissue for your issue?
Where did they say that they hated you? Don't make up shit Sandra, just to cover your own butt. You have sunk to new level of disturbed. I don't hate you, so don't quote my shit in there ever again. I said I liked you in my first post! Another thing, I don't see where IE hates you either. Man your something else. Maybe you are the hater, HATER! I don't like my name involved in quotes like this. You should have cut it out. Don't you know I am just looking for you to do something else repulsive. Hate? Shit, you should apologize. The only one mentioning words like hate- IS YOU!!! IE is a good person. She has character, whereas you certainly are lacking some of it today. I wish you well. But don't be quoting or putting my name in next with any of your screw ups again. I don't like it one bit.
lol are you telling me what to do, are you putting words in my mouth that you know what I mean. Are you an expert on Sandra now? I certainly didn't start this thread on the basis of hating people but you certainly brought it up because that is all you know how to do is be mean to people different from you.
If you dislike it so much go find another stomping ground! Oh wait, how dare me say get off the religion thread if you dont want to hear what people believe right!
Would you like to oppress people further so that you never have to hear another word about God and what people believe. You guys do a very good job at taking something that was good and making it into something that it is not?
And that post was for the other person not you.
No I'm done with you. So lol back at YOURSELF SUPERIOR SELF! You mean nothing to me, so yeah, why should I care what you're doing? You've just lost a fan. Don't care- that's too bad, because it is fair game on TWITTER!
First thing I saw was RK! That's what I'm talking about. You're so careless with other people's business. You are so careless with your ideology. The second thing I saw was hate! But you know, it doesn't matter, because you have no right to make assumptions and accusations towards IE. If you'd actually get past YOUR pride, you just might of seen that she was TRYING TO BE HELPFUL! Don't worry, Sandra- the next time, I'll certainly blow any thing you write; off!
The only one playing superior being here is you RK people have the right to believe whatever they want to and that includes you but if you really want to treat people with a lack of respect on accounts of something that does not agree with you also then fine, you made that decision not me.
I like people regardless of what they believe but when you start telling people to shut up and to not talk about what they believe because it is better for you then I will say no thank you!
What is this about Twitter?
Your nothing but full of yourself and bad choices. Tweet and find out. Find out what I think people like yourself, who mess with peoples stuff. I'm off, I'm so done with you.
Anger is such a useless emotion...it clouds the waters of trepidation, making too many people afraid to speak up. Alright, back to being the Professor of Philosophy 101.
Perhaps we can use this thread here to open a new line of discussion about the "universal truths" that Mark has pointed out about....and put this "compromise" into actions, because words are worth their weight in gravity on the moon. ;D
Give me a break Sandra. You don't have to say a damn thing. I think you said it all right here and I quote, And of course Jenny! who doesn't just love Jenny. I would think you were strange to not love her. lol. big_smile
What if I didn't like Jenny. You calling me strange because I have a different opinion than you? You think calling people strange or making them feel unworthy is okay? Ask Badcompany about that.
And let us talk about Jenny, is fair that she be put into the middle of a situation like this, where someone is open to really bash and discredit her, because they don't agree with you!!! My, my, my have you been fishing in shallow water too much, or shall I take this a little deeper? THAT IS WHY IT IS OFFENSIVE!
Oh Jenny, whoever you are- I'm sorry YOU have been thrown into this mix, by someone less wise. I feel bad for you. I don't know who you are. But there is alot of shallow people out there. I am not a loner. I wouldn't appreciate somebody using my name in this manner, and potentially setting me up to take a fall. She is messing with YOUR business ALL in order to promote her own business, and that's just not cool. That's not cool at all. Same goes for Lady G, Misha, Mark and whoever else Sandra decided to comment about in a PUBLIC forum.
Sandra that's low.
So you hate Jenny, okay. You think I am strange, look at what you just wrote and tell me who is being low? I love people that you don't love and I am low.
Sure Rk, whatever you say.
And another thing, I don't even know who Jenny is! Try reading all the forum posts written. I don't hate Jenny at all. And see how you just tossed her to the wind again, and mess with her life? If you can't see how wrong that is, and just quit before it's too late, then. I feel sorry for this Jenny character. I feel bad for Misha, Lady G. Mark and whoever else you decided to open a PUBLIC FORUM POST about.
I don't know Sandra. I've always admired you on hp. You're truly a very smart woman, but a truce. I don't know - it looks too much like a sell out to me. But hey, what do I know, right.
To the person beginning this tread........What are you talking about?? It seems more like ranting and purposeless. Move on and accept everyone has their own opinion. Enjoy the interaction..
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