So is every man and everything in this universe, the meaning of omnipresence, in all things.
There is only One God and He is also Savior. Jesus is the Savior, the God (not god), and there is NO WAY to heaven (to Him) unless you believe (entrust your spiritual well-being) in HIM. It is His righteousness, His sacrifice, His holiness, His resurrection, His Holy Spirit, His BLOOD that saves us. We do not save ourselves and will never ever be righteous enough for Him without accepting and becoming part of Him. His name is JESUS (in every language, however it is spelled) and there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven by which we can be saved. That is the truth. Jesus said, "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." He is either a true prophet or a false prophet. He is a true One, the Only begotten Son of God. Those who reject Him and His only way of salvation are not saved and will go to hell for eternity. That is what He said, and it is the truth. There are not many truths, or many salvation gods, and we do not become gods....ever. We are children of the Most High, not gods.
Satan told Eve we would be as gods, and Satan is a liar and the father of lies. God says we are to have no other gods before Him and that would include MAN, his creation or anything else.
And regarding the LIE of evoloution, the truth is all DNA goes back to the SAME KIND and that is how God created everything, according to its kind.
If anyone needs Bible scripture to prove this, which is the Word of God, whereby we will all be judged by it accordingly, I will be happy to provide the exact text.
AMEN.
Very Protestant viewpoint. I guess all the Catholic's might disagree; but hey what do you care? Your an absolute extremist, unlike that of Jesus Christ.
I can confidently say that true Catholics (Christians) do know this is the truth. There is no other name than Jesus whereby we are saved. If someone attends a Catholic church or was raised Catholic, but has adopted a more universal approach (anything that deviates from the Word of Truth, the Bible and what it says) have turned away from the truth. The Bible says, if this happens, they crucify the Lord Jesus again and put Him to open shame, and there remains no more forgiveness of sins, as it is impossible to renew them to repentance (Hebrews 6:6). And this doesn't just apply to Catholics, but any follower of Christ (aka Christian or Messianic Jew, etc.) ~ any follower of Christ.
So all those in the world born where they never heard of your god ain't gonna make the gates eh?
if you blame god there is no difference between you and the one who spreading god in false way. both of you same but identifying yourself as believer and atheist.
Here's the truth about the innocent that have never heard of or have any guilt of knowingly rejecting the gospel (not proclaimed igonorance, but true innocence): John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin." Everyone that has heard the Word of God is without excuse, for faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. This is why the apostles and every believer is to go into all the world and preach the gospel. It's over every airwave all over the earth (tv, radio, sattelite, missionaries, etc.). The sick, the disabled, the young ~ God knows who they are and will show mercy to whom He will show mercy and not to those He knows the hearts of that are against Him. Amen.
they will be accountable for what they did as far as their conscience is concerned. God is a righteous Judge.
So on this basis all those who die horribly, it is their own fault? That seems ridiculous to me.
Did Jesus die horribly because of His own fault? He was innocent. We are in this world, but not of it. He says we will be hated because He was hated. This life is but a breath compared to eternity. Satan is the "god of this world" and followers of Christ will have their faith tested until the end. God says that faith is more precious to Him than gold that is refined by fire. Our rewards are not here on earth, where moth and dust corrupt and thieves break in and steal. Our reward is incorruptible and is for eternity in heaven. He who hates his life will save it; but he who loves his life will lose it. Those are the words of your Prophet, your God, your Creator, your Savior and Lord. His wisdom is not our worldly wisdom. Our wisdom is foolishness to Him and to those against Him, His wisdom is foolishness to them.
And how would someone know if they were against him or not with hundreds of different interpretations? Crazy.
Someone needs to show you how to study the Bible. Hold your teachers accountable. Use the Holy Bible and study tools (i.e. the Strongs Concordance, Bible Dictionary). Your heart, by the Spirit of God, will know truth from false. You must pray to God and do so in the name of Jesus Christ, by the "blood" of the Lamb. No other Jesus died for you (and the spirit of antichrist calls himself Jesus, too). Your faith will save you. If you truly seek, you will find Him, for He's already at the door of your heart, knocking. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For by [His] grace [unmerited favor] are you saved through faith, and it's not of yourself; it is the gift of God, not of works, so no one can boast." It's that simple. Believe, receive in His holy name, and He will come to you, send His Spirit to live in you and will lead you into the knowledge of the truth. You will know true from false, good from evil. Because of your faith in Him, you will be saved. Just don't turn back. He will never leave you, nor forsake you. His Word promises this to you.
So out of all the religions only yours is the way to a god that is invisible and apparently useless! Do you realize what the odds are of you being the one who knows this, while others beliefs are wrong? Your megalomania is showing again!
If you continue to reject Him, His Word says He will give you over to believe a strong delusion and there will be no hope for you. Don't harden your heart. He died for you and loves you more than you will ever know...until you see Him face to face. If I didn't feel His love for everyone, I wouldn't be here, spending time, doing my best to share the Bible (not my Word, but His Word) with all who will read and receive it. Please don't harden your heart...ever.
No hardness of heart here JD, just a logical thinker who has seen the religious machine from the inside over many years and have arrived at different conclusions. I do not like religiosity as I see it here often, and I esecially do not like being told that only your god is right out of the thousands of available interpretations of a book full of lies, written by controlling mainly old sexist racist men.
Clear?
There is only one God in the Bible, and He's Spirit, who came to us in the person of Jesus Christ, who gave His own life, His own blood shed on the cross for your sin and mine. He raised Himself from the dead and gives you all of this ~ He will save you and raise you. He sent that same Holy Spirit to give us power and be with us as a Comforter and Teacher until we see Him face to face, which has been imminent since His resurrection. He's waiting for as many to have the opportunity to make a decision for Him before He comes back, for there will be no more opportunity then.
don't spread god by sympathy here, its his duty to die for you and its his duty too to make sure you are death, no one here accept his message. you accept only his religion and gaining support amongst humans. all of you religionist racing to spread the religion, not the message-GOD
Let's see...this thread is called "Millenial Reign of Christ". Shaul, Mike, Sanctus V, Jerami and I all believe in the same God. You seem to be the one on the outside of the fold ~~ and so bold of you to make such a statement that no one hear accepts this message? Do you have blinders on or something?
yeap im outside the fold called misunderstand. and you have no rights that to tell that i dont believe as you said the god you believe in
I am also outside the fold and Chukra is correct you are trying very hard to gain support for your ego which makes you say Jesus was the greatest prophet and only son of god.
You have no idea who god is because if you did you would never make such a statement.
No, there is no god, the bible is a book, there is no proof at all of god, not even a little bit!
My bible knowledge is in both Hebrew and Greek as well as English.
Foundation member of CBNC etc. No sale!
You've spoken it (written it); God sees this and you are accountable to no one but Him. Satan knows and quotes the Word of God. Demons believe and tremble. Goes to show everyone that book knowledge and belonging to any religious affiliation does not save a person. It is by faith someone is saved. Our works are as filthy rags to Him, the Bible says. It's truly a change of heart and faith in Him that saves you.
Once again you assume you have the only correct version.
I do not believe that the bible was written for or though any deity.
You do have that choice, and I am just thankful that your outcome will not be on my hands when I stand before my Lord. Are you really that confident, that if you were to die tonight, that you are ready?
Yes absolutely! I have been to the door before
I wonder then, why Jesus didn't keep you ~~ a second chance maybe?
The love of my family I fought for my life, so did the surgeons I died on the table during a 5 hour op. long time ago now
Don't you think that might be a tad condescending?
Only God knows what your heart needs; not I. I wish I did. Since you don't believe in "god", as you call Him, you don't believe in salvation. I did my very best to share the gospel with you, and I pray it stays in your spirit as long as you have time to hear Him.
Your not hearing me. My heart has what it needs, I am content with my lot, and am a spiritual being who cares about others. I'm doing fine thanks
Well, then you can understand that I also care about others. The difference is, the truth is what sets a person free, so just be sure you are confident you are spreading the truth to others, not a "tickling of the ears" that leads to destruction. That's your heart's call.
Is that a "christian" way of saying you have the truth and others are spreading lies?
There is no evidence at all for your god, so who would be spreading lies?
I agree with you that the truth will sit us free. BUT The truth will not be found in the interpretations of Man. By definition of Christian, we are to believe in him and believe what "HE" said. If a disciple says something that seems to contradict what Jesus said, I WOULD REALY REALY THINK ABOUT THAT !! to interpret what Jesus said would be tickling the ears of those that do not want to believe what Jesus said because someone else said something else. Again we should REALY REALY THINK ABOUT THAT ?? do we believe (serve) in JESUS or do we believe in the disciples.
Well, Jerami, the majority of Christian scholars do not believe the rapture has already happened, that the antichrist and false prophet are in the Lake of Fire with Satan bound, and that the millennial reign has already ocurred. You believe Jesus has already returned and no one recorded it anywhere. I realize you are dead-set in your interpretation of what Jesus said, but just rest assured you and everyone else who are His are doing their best to understand prophecy.
With all the love and respect to you I want to say, If I'm not goina believe what a disciple says above that which the RED letters say, I'm not going to pay a lot of attention as to what the "Christian scholars" say,concerning the "Rapture" And I hope I never said that the beast and false Prophet has already been burned cause I do not believe that. They Have been among us for a long long time. And Yea I think that We missed the Rapture, and later we missed the First resurrection ,The 1000 years ago !!
BUT GOOD news,........... there's many more buses going home. We are telling the same story in a diffrent way and My calander is dated many many years diffretntly than yours
If I figure it this way; I do not have to interpret the RED WORDS in order to get my ducks in a row, and through the door. That's just my openion. God Bless
If you read Revelation, the antichrist and false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire when Satan is bound for 1,000 years ~ the same 1,000 years of the millennial reign of Christ. No evil present. This is also the time of the first resurrection. So, if the beast and false prophet are still around, and Satan is still rampant (because he gives power to the antichrist), the millennial reign has not come to pass yet, which means the first resurrection has not taken place either. Again, you can claim you are the one who knows all this has already happened, or some out of sequence from the book of Revelation, but the majority of Christian scholars are not with you on this. If Revelation were completely out of order, the seals would not be in numerical order, as well as the trumpets, and subsequent plagues...and that's just my opinion. God bless you, too.
The beast and false prophet are cast into the lake in Chapter 16. In 16:17 God spoke from his throne and out of the temple of heaven .... "" IT IS DONE"" I choose to not interpret those words, they made sense to me exactly as written. Imagine hearing a strong voice declaring "IT is DONE" Say that to yourself loudly three times with a strong voice and then interpret it for me. This is the same battle as when Satan is thrown into the pit.
Jerami, this battle hasn't happened yet, so if you think it has, you're quite alone on this view.
Again I do not believe that this battle has happened. I believe that all of these battles are one battle that was described for four different times to make four different points of interest. It is the harvesting of souls described in Chapter 14 that I believe to be past tense. That is what brought in the first resurrection and the 1000 years. Or at least that is the way that I analyze it. And we are watching the kings gathering together as we speak.
My friend says:
Love is complete in love and content in love and that nothing can move love away from love.
That is why love reigns supreme and always has.
Love in the king means, love in the reign.
My friend says:
Love needs no defense and nothing can defend against love.
Did he say this to you?
Jesus says in Luke 2:13-14 that he came to bring peace on earth. Matthew 10:34 Jesus back peddles and says he did not come to bring peace on earth.
I'm glad to see you're reading your Bible. I am greatly encouraged. Those who believe are filled with the Holy Spirit, made possible by our King's death and resurrection. He brings peace to our souls that passes all understanding (Phil 4:7). The sword is the "sword of the Spirit", which is the Word of God (Eph 6:17), and is sent to divide the false from the truth. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth. The truth sets you free and brings peace to your soul. Amen.
Finished reading it 30 years ago. I know it all quite well.
You amaze me in not feeling the need to examine such blatant discrepancies in the only reference you have for your god
According to your tome jesus also said "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you"
He also said
Matthew 23:17 ("Ye fools and blind"), Matthew 12:34
and Matthew 23:27 (" hypocrites . . . ye are like unto whited sepulchres"
Total hypocrisy from your god!
Do a study on the word love: God so loved the world, love your neighbor, love your enemies, love your wives...all of those is agapao (social, moral, principled). Love the Lord your God with all your heart, the way God loves His children and the way we love our brethren is agape (friendship, attachment, to kiss). God says friendship with the world is hostility toward God (no agape love for the world). God loved Jacob and hated Esau. God loves His children and hates evil. If I lived near you and were open to it, I would show you how to use the Concordance and Bible dictionaries to help you understand scripture meanings more. This is the problem with twisted doctrine: people often take what is written at face value...remember to look at the original languages, as English can be limiting.
My friend says:
Love knows when to be silent to draw you in.
I forgot to nention also that I agree with your statement concernibg the cronoligical order of the seal, trumpet and visal judgments. The only one out of order is the 7th trumpet. It is sounded with the pouring out of the 7th vial judgment.
If the harvesting of souls has already happened (as you say) then none of us living in this life will inherit the kingdom of God.
May I ask, are you an amillennialist/Nunc-millennialist?
In my opinion Chapter 14 describes Jesus and two angels harvesting the souls. This is the first resurrection!! And from that time forward ...Rev 14:13... And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, "Write , blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth; Yea saith the spirit, that they may rest from their labors and their works do follow them". I believe that the first resurrection has already happened and from that day forward when a person dies they go to heaven right then. Those that do not go to heaven will sleep until the second resurrection. I could be wrong but that is my understanding when I read this chapter.
If you believe Jesus when He told the story of the rich man in Hades and Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham, that would indicate the blessing of life after death even before the resurrection of Christ. I believe the "blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth" meaning that they will die a horrific death of martyrdom and will receive greater reward for their faith unto death.
Hey - if you believe that, I have some great time shares in Florida that would be perfect for you.
For what fellowship has light with darkness? Mark, I will be ignoring your ignorant comments from now on. You seek attention from put-downs and they don't fly with me. You show your own personality loudly and clearly to all who read. Again, this is the last bit of attention you will ever get from me.
Aww. really?
Too bad. You mean I am not worth saving? Yes I do show my personality - and proud of my personality I am.
You on the other hand? If I was you, I would hide behind an imaginary persona. That is probably best..........
I must not understand all of the meanings behind the story concerning Lazarus in the arms of Abrahams and the rich man being in hades. I do not want to get too carried away trying to interpret it except maybe to say that hades must be a stones throw away from Heaven. And you can not go back and forth between them. I believe that this story about Lazarus does not necessarily cross reference, interpretively with prophesy. It was said that when king David died he slept with his fathers, and Samuel was awoke when the sorcerest. Maybe all of the people that are asleep can be said to be alive?
First of all, Jerami, you have not run me off. I am still here. I will fully ignore anything posted by Mark.
I am familiar with what you're saying about David and Samuel. Let me add this: David wrote prophetically about Jesus that "Thou shalt not leave my soul in Sheol (Hades)" (Ps 16:10), confirmed in the New Testament (Acts 2:31 and Acts 13:37). I believe his soul was in the bosom of Abraham based on what Jesus said about Lazarus. I believe the body that sleeps is our dead body that will one day be resurrected; therefore, because God is not done with our "dust", He is going to raise it incorruptible on that Day He has appointed.
A very firm point on this matter is that of Paul's statement, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." If our soul NEVER leaves our body until resurrection, this statement of Paul's would always be false, no matter how one looks at it. Personally, I believe Paul, but also looked at what happened with Jesus when He was placed in the tomb:
Jesus is said to have first descended into the lower parts of the earth and made "proclaimation to the spirits now in prison" before He ascended (1 Pet 3:19). This would indicate He left His body in the tomb while He did this and was reunited with His earthly body, then raised glorified: for He appeared in the room with the disciples while the doors were locked (John 20:19), and also appeared in "another form" (Mark 16:12), as the Bible states ~ all before He ascended into the heavens.
Regarding Samuel, when you translate what the spiritist saw coming up out of the earth, it is "elohiym" (the name of God), and it was an old man. Saul could not see what the spiritist saw. Samuel's prophecy was given to Saul and Saul was killed right after that. The Lord says that spiritists defile us, and that they are liars. God's prophecy, of course was not a lie and came true. This is also a passage of mystery.
I didn't say tha I ran you off. I said that Mark did. I'm glad that he didn't.
Yes, I'll never understand as with two religious forums I'm participating in now, that those who don't have anything to contribute to the topic, but rather cause disruption and distraction from the topic, continually show up. I have no respect for them at all, and simply won't show them any, as they are obviously very disrespectful. It's one thing to show opposing and respectful arguments about a topic, but when not one iota of what they say has anything to do with the topic, it's detrimental to the progress of the topic. Amen.
I hope this previous post answered your question also about those that are on the earth now DO get their inheritance when they get there. All that I have ever intended to say is that the first buss has already left. We don't get to ride in "IT" but the station is always open.
I just love repyling to Religious forums...they keep me laguhing.
I was reading Isiah and Mic ha concerning their beating their swords into plow shears trying to figure out when that was to take place. It seems to me that it is to take place after the New Jerusalem comes down to the earth from heaven. I believe this because when they do this they will NEVER study war again. They evidently do study war when Satan is loosed out of the bottomless pit and prepare for battle against the Lamb and Holy city. Just a thought.
If you could provide the scripture references in Isaiah and Micah, I can also look into this. There doesn't appear to be an actual battle when Satan is loosed from the pit. Revelation states he will gather the armies and surround the holy City, but that fire comes from heaven and devours them all. We don't see an actual battle defined as ever actually taking place then...I mean, even the battle of Har-Magedon ends by the Word of Jesus' mouth.
Based on Revelation 16:15 the rapture happens. Verse 16 is the gathering for the battle of Har-Magedon. Verse 17 is the "It is Done" from the throne (could this be the rescue of the church and the beginning of the wrath of God?). Verse 18 is the lightning, thunder, earthquake and hailstorm (the fall of Babylon) verified in verse 19. I'm going to have to do some more studying because it appears, based on the sequence of these verses, Har-Magedon may happen before the fall of Babylon and subsequent outpouring of God's wrath. My brain's a bit tired today...
The verse was Micah 4:3 concerning beating the swords into plow shears and I think Issiah 4 something? As far as Rev. 16:15 goes I believe that this is also talking about the 1st resurrection. Concerning these four battles of Armageddon I did write a hub about this. It is too long and complicated to go into here. I believe that all four descriptions are describing one event,The Battle of the great day of the Lord. except for C, 14.
I still don't believe the first resurrection has happened yet. I know someone pointed out, Matthew 27: 50-53 as proof that the resurrection happened, but the way it's written, I just can't buy it.
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
If read literally then it indicates that the dead saints rose from the dead before Jesus. We know this isn't true.
The way those verses are written, it's like an afterthought. "Oh and then Jesus died, and btw a bunch of saints rose from the dead and went into the holy city, right after he died."
These verses are more a prophecy of what will happen because of Jesus' death and resurrection.
I agree with ya on that. I don't know but I just always felt that those were probably the very ELECT of Gods prophets or it could have been one of Satan's tricks. I've heard some friends of mine who were preachers say that every time that The Lord does something that Satan is quick with a cheep imitation??. My understanding of what Gabriel says concerning 69 weeks unto the Messiah, makes me think that the 2nd coming comes first, before any rescurrection; which I believe was around 94 AD. I think that The Rapture as described in Daniel 12:1 & 2 came when the 14 emperor of Rome died. Exactly as Gabriel said that it would. (The Little horn that replaces three after the first ten)This is when that Hebrew Nation ceased to exist(138 AD) the 70 weeks would have been finished before this. "I think"
We don't ever see that these saints that were resurrected from the dead ever ascended into heaven. Lazarus and others were raised from the dead when Jesus was fulfilling His ministry on earth. All of them had to have died again ~ just like people today that are pronounced dead and yet somehow come back to life. They die again. In other words, this would not be THE Resurrection, as when that happens, we will have glorified and eternal bodies that will never die again.
I agree that this is not "THE" resurection, And actually noone says that the secondcoming, the Rapture, first rescurrection are all the same event at the same time.
Yes, all we read is that Jesus is to return as He left (in the clouds), and that the dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds; our bodies will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
We cannot assume this happened upon Jesus' resurrection because of Paul's statement to Timothy in 2 Tim 2:18 "men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some."
The next account of the return of Christ is on a white horse with the armies of heaven (so this is not to rapture the church), but to win the battle of Har-Magedon, then resurrect those who were killed during the tribulation period that will reign with Him for the millennial reign (the first resurrection). The second resurrection is after the millennial reign, and is of the unbelievers who will face the judgment seat of Christ and because their names are not written in the Lamb's book of life, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire at that time, along with Satan and his armies.
This brings in the new heaven and new earth and eternity. No more deaths, resurrections, nothing but eternity.
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. This would be as it is written ~ after His resurrection.
Your "word of god" Does not even agree with itself about the "resurrection"
Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him."
John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.
The passage in John is where they are discussing the crucifixion of Jesus, and in Mark it's stating when they crucified Him. The crucifixion and resurrection are two different events. Crucifixion is death on the cross; resurrection is being raised from the dead on the third day.
Oh yeah this is a scriptural statement bcos it is written in the bible.
kaybum, if you are referring to the resurrection of the saints after Jesus' resurrection, we know this cannot be "THE" first resurrection Revelation talks about, because the Apostle Paul never knew Jesus when He was alive. He was saved much later. Paul tells Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:18 "men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some." Therefore, it is only common sense to think that those who were raised from the dead may have died again, as there is no mention of them ascending to heaven. Lazarus and others that were also raised from the dead during Jesus' ministry on earth remained with their families. People today that die and are brought back from the dead medically or miraculously die again. In other words, if they're brought back to life and are in a physical human body on earth, they're going to die again. If they're raised in incorruptible bodies, they will be spiritual and live forever, not amongst their family members ~~ do you know of any such thing? I sure don't.
1 Peter 4:20 is speaking about the predestination of the coming of Christ Jesus to die on the cross. This is His appearing, in order to die and be resurrected from the dead. He now dwells in us through the Holy Spirit until He comes again. Chapter 4:7 states that the end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
All believers await the second coming of our Lord ~ the rapture has not yet taken place, as it would have been historically recorded somewhere, at least as an alien invasion (what the non-believer may, most likely, assume).
It is "historically" recorded. In your own tome! Now scatter off and find it!
Really? Where? You think His first coming is His second? That's a bit off, don't you think?
Judah's daughter, I thought you knew your bible? There are several contradictions on this alone, and thousands of them throughout the bible.
You've shown me nothing. Start showing and I'll see what it is you claim ~ thousands of contradictions throughout the Bible? Are you the only one who makes such a claim, other than cults and false religions that don't study the Bible based on this lie? We have to study thoroughly, using the original languages and cross-referencing other passages that confirm and explain.
Let me share some important insight with you. There are two scriptures in the King James Bible that appear to contradict themselves. One says if we say we love God and hate our brother, we are liars. The other one says, unless we hate our brother we are not worthy to be His disciple. If you wish to read this in English, you can then claim a contradiction. However, if you do a study on the word "hate", you will see that the first case is to despise and the second case is to love less. There is no contradiction.
Earlier, you were comparing the crucifixion to the resurrection. You seemed a bit confused. Confusion is not of God. Just pray before you read and continue to let the Spirit of God reveal the truth to you.
You're joking ,right ??!!
you said:
if you do a study on the word "hate", you will see that the first case is to despise and the second case is to love less. There is no contradiction.
hate less ? when you hate, you hate. More ,less... It's hate nonetheless. And It's a terrible thing to say, that to follow Jesus you have to hate your brother if he doesn't believe ??!!
you're crazy !!!
To LOVE LESS is not to hate. To DESPISE is to hate. English is the problem when it comes to reading and understanding the Bible. It should be translated using the defining meanings of the English words based on the Hebrew and Greek.
So, if we say we love God and despise our brother, we are a liar. If we don't love our families less than our Lord, we are not worthy to be His disciple. That's what it means.
What do you find so funny? The Bible has been translated into Japanese, but even they must go to the original languages to properly understand their Bible as well. If you think this is funny, and you are mocking our Lord, you may as well have been laughing at Him at the foot of the cross with the others. We have no more to discuss.
2 years full time in English Hebrew & Greek, as a devout christian.
I source my biblical knowledge and knowledge of religions the same as everyone does.
Outside these tomes there is no god.
Apart from the earlier gods they are based on, religions all follow the same path.
A fear based entity supported by a book full of psychotic threats from a hate filled psychopathic and powerful entity.
It is a nonsense to assume that any entity with even earthly intelligence would handle his own creation in this way.
The devil in the corner mentality does nothing to further understanding or responsibility for sub consciously driven actions that harm others.
It is patently obvious that there is no god in the world, and the evil is made by men and women, not some other entity which is only needed to dodge a whole lot of questions that should be asked about morality!
There is a "god of this world", the one Adam and Eve made their god. It is Satan. 2 Cor 4:4 states, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
Now, I don't know if you were ever saved, brother, but you said you were where I am 30 years ago, so I assume you were saved. The Bible says in Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." I hope this does not apply to you...
You really need to read what John has to say about it! There are thousands of obvious contradictions as I said.
Well, I've answered the three or so you've claimed as contradictions, to the contrary. If you wish to remain twisted, it's the god of this world that is blinding your mind. God is not the author of confusion. There is no way I can take the blinders off you. You are the only one who can submit your soul to the Lord and let Him restore your sight. If you want me to explain what you think are contradictions, feel free to email me and we'll go from there ~ why? Because I care if you care.
you should e-mail her earnest. Maybe is the only way you would stop being blind
No thanks tantrum! I have seen enough here to know that she interprets her bible in a very special way without the terror and hate, incest and rape, murder and torture,Jealousy and pettiness of the supernatural deity described in the bible.
Really scary how someone can't realise the hate that this kind of god brings. But when i think she's believing that the unfaithfull will rot in hell, or when she feels superior becuse she's not !!! How could someone live so full of hatred !! And immerse in such incredible lie !!!!
come on, earnest. how will you ever see the god-instilled beauty of of the paintings by the reliously transformed young girl posted in one of the 16 dozen other religious forums here on hub pages, if you don't open your eyes?
i always knew organized religion was a disease. it completely blindsided me to discover it's origin was in these forums.
I tried to see 'god' in those paintings, but I only saw acrylic
What I saw was a thread leading to a forum stating the bloody obvious. She was bought up in America. No exposure to religion? Gimme a break! The story is old and controversial to some.
Really it is only about four or five fundamentalists. Most have never written a hub, or contributed anything other than their particular gods hate of those who don't believe the same tripe.
The zealots have all sorts of conspiracy theories and so cannot show who they are for fear of being killed by "The Zionists" or the Freemasons" hit men!
Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." We as His children do not fear God or being killed by mere man. We have the victory over death in the end.
Which makes you a dangerous zealot, because that is what you people do. You run out of belief for your lunatic beliefs so to reinforce them you run amok and kill some "sinner" in his name. Your god never killed anyone.
I realy shouldn't say this but........You two are both on two diffrent extremes of the .same. rainbow But I don't know anything but that is what I think that I see, but I wouldn't swear to anything. but that I came from somewhere and that is where I want to go back to.
Jerami, earnestshub and I aren't even on the same rainbow; what are you talking about? He doesn't believe in "god", as he says, and I do. I'm not sure where you're coming from? He claimed to be saved 30 years ago, and thus he's now into viewing *** and doesn't want to give it up ~ so he now says there is no "god". I have hope that the Lord will bring him back home.
I'm realy not sure where I came from either but I do think that I know where I'm going...??? and I really do know what I've come through to get HERE
You don't know where you came from? God created you. It appears you've given Lordship to Jesus Christ and therefore, you know where you're going ~ to be with Him for all eternity. I believe the same for me, because I also have made Him Lord of my life.
Yes I know that I came from him but I don't know where that is , I think that it is right here but I cant see it because it is on a different time continuum ???? Maybe we really do not have to go anywhere to get to where we want to be ????
That's deep, Jerami. We do know people physically conceive children (though your Mom probably knew your name before you were born, like I knew my children :-); people literally live and literally die. Their bones can be dug up. There appears to be spiritual activity in some other dimension and all we know is, there is a spiritual dimension (which I believe will be heaven or hell, based on the Bible). We don't know about that spiritual dimension on earth, just that spirits existed in the time of Jesus and they were cast out of people...so, they still exist, as they were not destroyed in those good 'ol Bible stories. Their day is coming ~
Funny, I consider myself a follower of Christ, and I have never gone out to "KILL PEOPLE FOR JESUS!!!!"
*coughs*
I'm hoping that JD hasn't either.
This post nearly slipped away from me I went to the store quick came back you probably submitted my reply seconds after you. Yea I lost my earge to kill like I used to.,?
The Bible says what it says, you can choose to believe it or not! I think this is absolutely true, just as the bible says it is.
I notice that on several occasions there is an angel standing with one foot on one side of the river and the other foot on the other side of the river? Is this symbolic. I think so! one foot is on the physical side of the river and the other foot is on the spiritual side of the river?? (Interpretation) Tha river is in Arkansas I think ???
I don't live in Arkansas, so I must be out in la la land...just kidding. Jerami, our spiritual man is everlasting. Our flesh will die, but our spirit lives forever, either in life with Christ or torment with evil ~ the wheat and the tares. So often we read "on earth as it is in heaven" ~ "bind on earth will be bound in heaven", etc. They are inter-linked, even now. The kingdom of God is in our hearts and will never be taken from us who believe.
I think that yu just admitted that heaven is here!!!! I believe that the 1000 year reign came just like that!!! Nobody on this side of the river recorded it though. And Jesus said that if ya turn it loose on this side then its gettin loose on my side too, so be careful will you please????
I didn't say heaven IS here; I said they are inter-twined. We still live in the flesh and our flesh will die. During the millennial reign, the antichrist and false prophet are in the Lake of Fire and Satan is bound. I do believe the millennial reign will indeed be on earth, not in heaven (but will be like heaven on earth, as the new Jerusalem will come down from heaven to the new earth after the millennial reign and judgment seat of Christ). But, again, the antichrist, false prophet and Satan are still busier than ever right now. After the millennial reign, it's only Satan who will be the busy-body, and only for a very short time.
"The fires of hell are contained within the spirit of Man".
Man is on the earth. For every action there is an equal but opposit reaction. I believe that is one of GODS fundimental rules???
Do you have a scripture that says this? I tried to look one up about the fires of hell being contained within the spirit of man, but nothing came up.
I've thought about the beast that rises up out of the sea (representative of peoples, nations, tribes and tongues) ~ makes me believe that the beast is within the people, who then give power to the antichrist system. The antichrist is obviously man, and so is the false prophet ~ all done through man. However, all of these are to be cast into the Lake of Fire on the day of judgment. This obviously hasn't happened yet, as the wicked still love their lives and don't claim to be in torment in the flesh...
It has been too long now since I have read it that I can't tell ya. It was in the bible that I read all the time in my youth. Might have been a Teasdale version, Dont' know.. It sounds good too !!! Gotta be true. Know I read it a 100 times! I believe that the Beast was and is a political and religious force to be reckoned with. The False prophet is his counterpart, The bible never says that these two are friends but that together they get er done.
I thought this was just a forrum Watch me put my puty face on. Not.
I know, every word we write ends up on google
Well I guess that we should be more responsible for our selves from onw on. I don't think that I've said anything that I didn't believe or feel at the time.... so.... I'm good. I do honestly believe what i believe. And I believe that Interpretation has buried the true word.
Can you imagine the conviction you just felt ~ that all you ever said is written forever on google and you are responsible for every word you typed? Now...bear with me...all those who oppose God, mocked Him, tried to tear down His children, the Bible...every one of their words is recorded and they will be held accountable for them by GOD ~~ Amen.
No god, just a bunch of intellectual pygmies and mental dwarfs talking about something in an old book of bulldust! !
Despite what your your massive ego would like to believe, you do not scare grownups with stories about sky fairies.
You say that you "hate it" when Christians disrespect Atheists point of view. We should be cautious of the things that we hate, and how we go about hating them, lest we become worse than the things that we hate.
No chance of that. All people should have a view on hate. I hate others ramming hate down my throat from their book fairy like this one.
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
Why would anyone want to follow a god that is more psychotic than Hitler?
The Old Testament, which you continually quote, is under the Law of sin and death. Death was always the penalty for sin, as God's Law never changes. That's why He Himself came to pay that penalty for us, so the madness would stop ~ at least for a time. We are in the age of grace. Hate wars at this point are not of God. However, those who do not receive salvation through Him are still under the Law of sin and death. That's why God's wrath is yet to come on those who are not made righteous by the blood of Jesus. He does not change, just made the Way, the Truth and the Life. Jesus is called our Savior for a reason! Our penalty is paid in full!!
J.D Great answer, I couldn't have said it better
Bless your heart, Jerami. Thank you ~ I am humbled when the Lord gives me the words...
Bless your heart, Jerami. Thank you ~ I am humbled when the Lord gives me the words...
Bless your heart, Jerami. Thank you ~ I am humbled when the Lord gives me the words...
Jerami, are you referring to this passage of Revelation?
Revelation 10 1-4
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not
That is one verse and have several others I think. Thought one was Daniel 12: 5 & 6 but after looking at it again there were 3 angels one on this side and another on that side and another that was upon the waters. I'll have to look for others but I may have gotten sidetracked with my versions of Interpretation. I gotta quit doing that! but yes the verse you quoted is one of them. Do you think that this may be symbolic of something?.
It is symbolic of something, but of what I don't know. This is the only part where John hears something speak, and is forbidden to write it down. This is curious, because we know that the seven thunders spoke, but we don't know what they said. Also interesting is the way the angel is described (Clothed with a cloud, face is like the sun, a rainbow surrounds him, and his legs are like pillars of fire.)
This angel is also noted for having a small book.
Actually, this name isn't the Bible, but this angel really sounds like it could be the angel Raziel (secret of God). The small book (who knows what's in it) along with the seven thunders speaking.
The myth goes that Raziel, as the angel of mysteries is always right by God's throne writing down everything.
Strange coincidence that the seven thunders corresponding with this angel say something, and John is forbidden to write it down. Making the whole thing a huge mystery.
...sorry, went on a tangent there.
New testament hate? Glad to oblige! :)You guys are fast to agree, slow to learn!
Matt.5.43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Matt.6.24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
Matt.10.22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matt.24.9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
Matt.24.10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
Mark.13.13 And you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Luke.1.71 that we should be saved from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us;
Luke.6.22 “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!
Luke.6.27 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
Luke.14.26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke.16.13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”
Luke.19.14 But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’
Luke.21.17 You will be hated by all for my name’s sake.
John.3.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
To sum all of this up ~ darkness hates light. God hates darkness. We covered the word hate already, in that it means either to despise or to love less. Matthew 5:44, which you left out, clarifies that we are to be different, in that we will love our enemies. Let me give you a summary of my study on these passages and more:
We are told that God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16). Some say this means that God loves the world and saves the world without question. However, the Greek word for love here is agapao (a social, moral or principled sense). This is the same love we have for husbands, wives, children, enemies, neighbors, the world.
The love that God has for His children (believers) that we share with God and our fellow believers is not agapao, but agape (friendship, attachment, to kiss). God says that friendship with the "world" (unbeliever) is hostility toward God. It's the agape of money that is the root of all evil. Money is not the root, but the LOVE (AGAPE) OF IT.
We are not to hate (despise) our brethren in Christ, for then we are as guilty as committing murder. However, God forgives all sin when we repent of it and turn from hate to forgiveness and love. However, like our Father, we hate evil and darkness, not the person. We love (agapo) the world, as He does.
Jesus says we are blessed by Him when we are hated by the world (by evil) as He was, for we have a great reward in heaven. He was hated and we will be because the world hated Him first. We don't lose heart because this is only a temporary condition for us as believers.
Now, with this knowledge, you can re-read your passages you quoted with understanding.
Psychologically this is just as sick as the old testament.
You denied there is hate in the new testament, I say it is full of it! I can read thank you, and how any of this crud could be seen in a way other than written is beyond me.
How about this from the new testament, or does this need your interpretation as well!
The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil.
John.12.25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John.15.18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.
John.15.19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John.15.23 Whoever hates me hates my Father also.
John.15.24 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father.
John.15.25 But the word that is written in their Law must be fulfilled: ‘They hated me without a cause.’
I added a paragraph to my previous response about how being hated on account of His name is a temporary state here on this earth for believers. We serve a higher purpose and our reward is great in heaven. Yes, we will be hated by the lost, but many will be saved, and that's why we endure it, for their sakes. So, I invite you to read my hub by that title: "Hated On Account Of My Name" to have a better understanding.
Not a better understanding, I can read very well thanks! You mean your understanding.
I did look at your hub. nothing to add.
John.15.24 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father.
I have studied the same as you, but I know how to keep my own council, this is very important especially in the light of such rubbish and bias.
The verse in John 15:24 shows us two things: one, that those who have not heard the gospel are not guilty of sin. Two, those who have heard the gospel and rejected it are full of hate for the Lord and His children. Therefore, they will remain under the Law of sin and death ~ the wrath yet to come in a much greater sense. You still have time to receive the gospel and repent, earnestshub. We are still in the age of His grace. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Amen.
The truth is anyone who read the bible without being totally indoctrinated first, would see the immature nature of the psychological concepts that you miss.
Hate and intolerance are just that. hate the prostitute, hate the homosexuals, hate non believers hate hate hate.
What a crock! smile A god that size could live in an ashtray as a three bedroom home! I do not worship entities that are worse than Hitler.
By the way, Jerami ~ sorry my earlier post posted three times. My computer got hung up and I tried to post three times, and it posted three times!! Sorry about that :-)
The truth is anyone who read the bible without being totally indoctrinated first, would see the immature nature of the psychological concepts that you miss.
Hate and intolerance are just that. hate the prostitute, hate the homosexuals, hate non believers hate hate hate.
What a crock! A god that size could live in an ashtray as a three bedroom home! I do not worship entities that are worse than Hitler.
You're doing a better job of hating than I am. My message brings life; your message brings death. I have no more to converse with you because of this attitude of yours.
In line with your approach is to dump if you can't sell your pathetic hate-filled doctrine you mean!
With all due respect, I beg to differ that your message brings life and another brings death.
It's only an ego that would make such a judgment statement, leaving another "brother's" opinion valueless. I think this your opinion, claiming it in the name of God. Surely Christ would not act in such a way.
Esteeming (loving) another as one's self is prime Christian directive.
Surely you do err in your assessment. Perhaps you'll want to reconsider this position when your heart softens toward your nonbeliever brothers and sisters.
Be at peace.
If Jesus is God, as the Bible clearly confirms, and Islam merely sees Jesus as a "prophet" of God, which Jesus brings life? To them, their Allah and their Mahdi are their salvation. Mahdi is even above Jesus! Will that road lead to eternal life? Jesus Christ (meaning Messiah) said He is the Way, the Truth and the LIFE and that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him. I happen to believe Jesus is God and is the Messiah, our only road to salvation and life. So, which Messiah brings life? Outside of Jesus Christ, any other "Messiah" does not lead to life, which means death. Now, you might understand my statement more clearly.
My point is that you esteem your brother's opinion as nothing, therefore, he becomes nothing.
Not so in God's eyes. It's not your call, it's God's.
I make no argument about the standing and position of Jesus Christ. Only you do that. My focus is not on the Son-ship. It's on the devalue you place on others of a different opinion. That's not a very Christian behavior. Really, it isn't. It's NEVER justified from the God who said. "love one another." (No exceptions....)
Have you done a word study on the word "love"? To love our brothers (that are unbeliving) is agapao (social, moral, principled sense). To love our brothers (believers) is the same love we have and share with God, which is agape (friendship, to kiss, attachment, personal relationship). The Bible says that agape (friendship) with the world is hostility toward God (James 4:4). In Revelation 2:6, God praises the Church that "HATES" the deeds of the Nicolaitans. Yes, God loves (agapao) the world, but loves (agape) His children in the saving sense. Those who do not receive the Savior, Jesus the Messiah, are condemned. It is God's call, and His Word says that the Word of God will judge all on the last day. Why would I waste my time sharing the truth with unbelievers? Because I have agapao love, as I am supposed to. AMEN.
I don't need a words study on "love" when I can feel it effortlessly. I felt no love in your comment toward earnestshub. That's all I'm saying.
Be at peace. My intent was to help you realize the error of your way so that your sin would not come up to God and count against you. I was hoping to keep you in his grace. No offense intended.
And have you read back to see earnestshub's comments? They are very much against Jesus as the Christ. As I tried to post earlier and yet, for some reason, it is not showing up, I appreciate your exortation to show more love in my comments. It is hard to do when someone rejects the very God of heaven through His Only Son, Jesus Christ. Just as when we love our brethren, we are loving God; when someone rejects God, His children feel it and are defensive of Him. I appreciate your heart and understand your message, and I thank you for your grace.
Then all is well.
And, Jerami, as for the particulars of the millenial reign, I've gone through these writings for years. There is a list of prophetic occurances yet to happen. While we can say they are about to happen, that has been true now for a few decades. However, they have not completely unfolded. These particulars are like the parables. They are veiled to those unprepared or unwilling and only a blessing and shout of warning preparation for others.
After all is said and done, the writings are meant only as a preparation for those who accept them. They are not meant as a condemnation to anyone. At least that's my understanding from my own studies.
You said that those who have heard the gospel and rejected it are full of hate for the Lord and His children.
What sort of rot is that?
"I read your book and thought it was full of hate"
You know what the rest of the bible says about those who hate god!
Nice.
This is an exerpt from my latest hub where I find it interesting to compare the two in regard to the seven-year rulership of the Mahdi and "Jesus" of the Qur'an and the Antichrist and "false prophet" of the Bible:
"Interestingly enough, many Bible scholars deduct, based on the Biblical prophecies of Daniel, the Antichrist will arise out of the Middle East (possibly New Syria). He is predicted to arise among the major Muslim nations. Now, look at the obvious difference in the Qur’an and the Bible about the seven-year reign of this end-time ruler: The Bible calls him the Antichrist. Muslims call him the 12th Imam, the Mahdi, their “Messiah”! The Bible says two beasts will be active during that seven years: the Antichrist and false prophet. Muslims not only expect their Messiah (the Mahdi), but also Jesus (who is no more than a prophet to them) to appear together!"
Don't you find this interesting? Who's correct? Is it not a matter of spiritual life and death? This should certainly be something we acknowledge.
But who is truly qualified to decipher such symbols, shadows and dreams? And where is the difinitive, unquestionable source to know these things?
If there is none, then let each govern himself to know who God is, and his relationship. There will always be those who will compartmentalize the symbols so that they can believe them, then sell their goods to the world.
It makes more sense for the message, symbols, and meanings to be understood from the inside, not hammered into a person from the outside.
Just my take.
And of what "root" are you? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Or Mahdi?
I know my root. No need to justify that in public.
I make my points because although you make many appearances of being Christian, and I daresay you are quite a one, neither you nor I always look at things as they really are. My ONLY point is that to esteem another person as anything less than yourself is a sin. Period.
You did that in public, on this forum.
I just kindly called you on your crap. That's all.
I have no other argument.
To know what is real is a personal journey. It's a vastly internal journey of coming to an awareness. That is where truth is derived, from my experience. I know of no other definitive source. It is where God is, and unless we tap into it, we cannot comprehend the consciousness of God, nor esteem any other person as we esteem our ownselves. It is through this process that we become aware and gain the witness that we are all connected.
That is what I believe. If you believe differently, then you are at peace to do so.
Or Vishnu Avatars
The Buddhists expect the Buddha, the Parsees expect the twins.
it is all related and linked so stop build wall in the name of religion
There has been turmoil that we should get past.
Now that that ruckus is past?????
I would like to re-direct this thread back to its beginning????
The millennial reign of Christ. The story actually begins in the ninth chapter of Daniel
v. 1 identifies the year as 538 BC
v23 at the beginning of thy supplication ........
"THE COMMANDMENT CAME FORTH"
v. 25 "Know therefore and understand ..." from the time that the commandment went forth it will be 69 weeks unto Messiah the prince
V. 26 and after 62 weeks they are goina kill the messiah.
some where between 26 and 30 AD they did.
Can we believe that what God told Gabriel to tell to Daniel is the truth??? If a Christian believes that this simple statement has to be changed to mean something else that is in totally disregard to its simple meaning. Then the truth that you say in written in the bible is hidden forever.
If Gabriel wasn't lying ??? this gives us an equation comparing the Earthly time line with Prophetic time????
If that statement "MIGHT" be true, I think that understanding of all scripture including the millennial reign of Christ "Might be revealed?????? I think that it does but that is just my opinion!! I would like to be proven wrong, but ... not with Interpretation of scripture but with what the words actually say!!!
While you would like to believe the seventieth week has already happened, most of the Christian world believes this period has not yet ocurred. That's why we are expecting a seven-year reign of the antichrist, the mark of the beast, etc. as prophecy yet to be fulfilled.
Then what does it hurt if every one examines this chapter and verse?????????????????????????????????????
The Messiah was cut off (crucified) as prophesied. Jesus has not returned yet, for the prophesied Antichrist, mark of the beast, and battle of Har-Magedon has not come to fruition.
I just ask a question !! Wasn't making a statement. I would like to see where 10 or twenty open minded believers might thank in regards to my question, uninterrupted by me. The TRUTH has nothing to be "asceard" of. All I ask is do not jump to conclusions based upon "INTERPRETATIONS" What does the Bible ACTUALLY SAY!!!
Well, I hope other Bible scholars will take up this debate with you; I have stated all I possibly can. I'm sorry for your frustration, Jerami. I wish I could agree with you or even help you in some way. You are convinced in what you interpret, and obviously, no one has given you enough information to keep your mind more accepting of the fact that the resurrection of the saints hasn't happened, nor the return of Jesus, nor the millennial reign. Peace ~ but I'll leave this up to anyone else that's willing to participate :-)
My original question has always been Was GOD, Gabriel Misinformed or lying when this chapter was written. I do not want to interpret anything!!! Can anyone else say that God and Gabriel was lying??? Why does this chapter need Interpretation?????????????????? WHY
Who's claiming the Bible a lie? Nothing in the Bible is a lie. If you claim to have the absolute interpretation of what the Bible says, and then claim that anyone that has a different interpretation is calling the Bible a lie, is a really offensive statement, Jerami.
I did not mean to insert the word else, When I was thinking it I was not thinking specifically about you but everyone that thinks that we HAVE to interpret these verses. I ask Why do we HAVE to interpret these verses My belief concerning these verses I do not believe is an interpretated view. They say what they say. Why don't we interpret John 3:16 or any of a hundred other verses that are writen no simpler than these? Who tells us when Gods word means exactly what he said and who tells us when we "HAVE" to Interpret his word. I guess everyone gets to do it whenever they want to. No wonder there are 10s of thousands of interpretations. I believe that the only reason that those verses HAVE to be interprated is the necessity for keeking so many other interpretations alive.
Well, I know some that think because God so loved the "world", they think He saves the whole world. That's why we have to take all of scripture into account, as well as the word study on "love". We all want to know how to prevent following after false doctrines and we are told to "study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth." We are also told that the Bereans were noble because they did search the scriptures daily to test everything the apostles told them, to see if they were true. The Lord tells us to abide in His Word, so we must at least be reading the Bible, and study inductively to protect ourselves from false doctrines. However, some things like this are not a matter of salvation and really don't need to be interpreted. The Bible is full of prophecy and mysteries, that we seek to have some sort of understanding, by His grace.
Jesus tells us to stay alert and keep watch for His return. To think we've all missed it upsets our faith ~ you see? To think all we have left is to die and wake up to eternal life would keep us from the excitement and hope of knowing His return is imminent. It's not over ~ I hope you will keep in the joy of looking forward to seeing our Lord, and also have the burden to keep witnessing the gospel with urgency, as no one is promised tomorrow to have that opportunity to receive Christ as Savior.
Or look at it with a bit of logic and common sense to see why you have trouble understanding it! With thousands of interpretations spawning hundreds of religions believing different things from it then killing each other over the meaning of a mis interpreted fairy story written by a bunch of old psychopaths! Your beliefs are so ridiculous that they could never be believed by any sane person who was not indoctrinated, and even many who have been!
Now, ernest, was that said with the love our brother suggested we practice in our communications?
Absolutely! I speak with evidence, millions of years of it. thousands of gigs of it, all ignored by religionists who only read selectively from scientists who are religionists.
I have seen Hawking misquoted many times as being one of them, which he clearly is not.
It is always loving to state facts in place of irrational fear.
I think that I'm going to C C'S pizza tomorrow and tell everyone oner there how stupid they are , don't they know what that cholesterol is doin to their heart and look at their fat bellies and tell them how stupid they are. Then I'm going to the army recruiter and tell them how war mongering they are , and I'm not going to forget those police officers at the donut shop either.. Did I miss any one . Who else do you think that needss to hear my openion? Yea pregnant teens let me go find some of they does anyone know where they hang out at.
What do you mean, tell them the truth and offend them? We can't have that, now....
I see your point clearly Jerami, but a pizza joint is not a forum. To be honest though, anyone selling sky fairies on the street get short shifted by me anyway!
I think that If I could gather a dozen brave souls we could go to every city, start at first and main going up the street and makum quit being offensive. We will get um all. I think if I could get you and ... (Better not mention any names) We could fix this mess that the world is in. Do ya wanna join us?
wanna join?
So then we are both "loving" each other :-)
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