What a relief. We are not in charge of everything.

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Shaul Steinposted 15 years ago
God created all things. He created them and called them what He wanted.
All of it. It is His creation so He can call it whatever He wishes.

He make the boundaries, sets the limits, just like we do if we create a game or if we own a business. It belongs to us. Nobody is going to tell us how to run it. If they do not like it, they do not have to be part of it. They can name call, blame, complain and blah, blah, blah!!! So what! They can just "clock out" (if you know what I mean) if they don't like it.

He is sovereign and can do as He pleases. He can take one lump of clay and make whatever He wants to with it and place it anyplace He wants. He owes nobody and explanation about it either.

When an artist creates something, be it a painting, a sculpture or a piece of music. Who tells him what to do with it or how to create it?

If you tried, he owes you not a single answer and can just laugh at you.

If the artist wants to destroy his creation, who can stop him? The artist does not answer to the observer for what he has done. In fact, he might find it rather offensive and insulting for you to try and find fault. It is not yours to find fault with.

Nobody can blame him, he is not subject to blame. It belongs to him.

Any thoughts?
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Beautifully put.
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you could argue that you had the right to voice your opinion if you were an art critic. lol
  
  But then again, I think there are some on here who find themselves to be experts in the fields of universal creation, human creation, justice, love, hate, fear, whats good for mankind, whats bad for mankind, how to fix a world gone bad, etc. I could go on and on but you get my point.
  
  They obviously see themselves as knowing far more about it all than God Himself since they so willingly offer their so not authoritative critiques on it all.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do I know more than the god of your book? Of course I do. I actually exist and my existence can be proven.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, goody! Existentialism!
  
  Prove that you exist.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hubs Written:
  
  Ron - 17
  The Artist Formerly known as God - 0
  
  Age of first intimate encounter with opposite sex:
  
  Ron - 18
  The Artist Formerly Known as God - TBA
  
  Number of people who learn something from his posts:
  
  Ron - >1
  The Artist Formerly Known as God - =or<0
  
  I smite therefore I am.
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  Michelle McD.posted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very true I am just a puppet in his hands , he commands and I obey.As a poet he works though me, no ego can be involved with an artist and you are correct no one has the right to change a single word from my book.
  Then he loves me more then anyone ever could so I gladly listen to him and his signs as he cannot harm me.
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Humanity values the individual too much. Does a kernel of corn blame the creator because it has to fall to the ground and ferment in order to produce a stalk of corn
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly
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lrohnerposted 15 years ago
I get that God is the boss. I also know that I've worked for bosses who thought they were God. Ironic.
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I get the tongue in cheek.
  
  Sovereign is more than a boss though.
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  lrohnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And I worked for a CMO who would tell you that HE was higher up on the food chain than a sovereign!
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is a word for that, but I cannot say it here!!! ROTFLMBO !!!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The word is megalomaniac sock puppet!
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I worked for a couple men like that. Told them if they rank above a Sovereign they can just speak to the truck and it will make the delivery itself.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As I have pointed out elsewhere on these religious forums, you are a man like that sock puppet!
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So I see you have no reply to the topic, OK cool.
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Shaul Steinposted 15 years ago
Puts an end to the need to answer the others.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
I have a reply sock puppet. Your god didn't make anything. He is a figment of your gullible mind, no doubt caused by early indoctrination, so maybe not your fault. What I do see fault in is you constantly trying to sell the same fairy story over and over on forums without one sign of evidence for your delusional beliefs. Not one spec of evidence.
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  early indoctrination?
  Ok, heres one for you: A young girl born to two atheist parents. Never been to a church in her life. At the age of 4 she begins to draw. Making drawings picasso himself would be proud of.
  By the age of 8 she is painting. She paints massive oils of who she says is Jesus.
  Her parents who do not believe in God, yet alone, Jesus cannot believe this.
  The girl insists He is very real and that God speaks to her.
  How do you explain it?
  
  Evidence?
  Speck of proof?
  The evidence you speak of cannot possibly be assertained in this life.
  You seek physical proof of a being who is not here in the physical sense.
  And you know that so you try to use that as proof that he does not exist. But what you fail to realize is that God could very well exist in a realm not of this world and still have created it.
  
  An artist for example does not have to live within his painting to have created it and its contents/. The artist stands and creates from where he stands. And if one or more of the subjects in that painting were to ask for proof of his existance, what could any other of those contents offer as proof?
  
  Oh they could say, "well look at all the complexity, the order of things held here, someone or some being had to have created us." But no physical proof could any of the subjects provide as to the actual artist himself. So would that then make it that the artist did not exist?
  Or is it rather, that the subjects being limited to the canvas cannot provide the proof of him.
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  how about the speck of proof of this girl's work?
  then, while you're providing specks of proof, how about seeing if you can get your pal shaul to provide a speck of a hub. oh wait, to borrow a phrase from a fellow hubber, it's the bible vomit that won't give him the time of day to write anything creative.
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL ok you want proof of her and her work, here it is:
  
  http://www.artakiane.com/gallery.html
  
  Be sure to check out pics of her creating them as well on that site and also read her story there.
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  fantastical. now maybe you can get your pal to write a hub. let's make it easy: something not related to bible vomit.
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Shaul Steinposted 15 years ago
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
No atomswife you can only be using "christian talk" and referring to me.
Thanks for painting such a clear picture of your thought processes or lack thereof. You can only make stupid "inside" jokes that a frog could decipher, and quote from a book full of contradictions and lies. Your full of it!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
If you have read your book, then read another you already know more than your book! simple!
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  lrohnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest, I don't usually follow religious threads, but I have an affinity for Shaul. I never saw this side of you before! I'm not overly religious or anything, but I am slightly disappointed in you. Hmmm....
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  beautyroseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh you just noticed it now? But I have noticed it before when he was posting his comments on some religious topics I post.
  But I just said I will just Ignore people who don't believe in God anyway its there loss not ours. Don't waste your time convincing people who don't believe God because they think they are already God themselves. Believe me when this kind of people become sick or there families encounter troubles that's the time they look for God and it has happened to many.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Beautyrose, I do not give a flying fart what you think. I hope that's ok with you?
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Shaul Steinposted 15 years ago
Well, good to know none of you can argue against the point.
A Creator can do as He wills.
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  rosariomontenegroposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What people here have been trying to say is that a Creator that can do as He wills cannot be at the same time all powerful, all knowing, and all good. They give as proof the pain of the world, the unspeakable suffering of beings.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
So you do admit there is no evidence of god.
I stand by what I said about early indoctrination, and your story is the same as thousand other stories that have been "christianized" You have nothing.
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If she has nothing, why do you argue with nothing?
  I think they call that _________? You pick!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey sock puppet you're still here? Why don't you let the good people know who you are really so they can start on you about your other crazy forum inputs?
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I said there is no physical proof of God.
  Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. I believe that there is substantial evidence as to assert there is one.
  
  So evidence I can supply, though not physical proof.
  
  I know for example that cells are created from other cells. A living cell is created from other living cells. So, if in this world we have living cells which we know we do, then where did the first living cell come from? what gave that cell, life?
  
  And in all the complexity and order to which the universe, living creatures and the like share, it is most obvious to me then that they were created/designed. Dor example: if I went outside and placed leaves in a a shape, lets say a square. And lets say, you came outside and seen the leaves, you would probably wonder why it was I placed them there like that. You would reason that, things in nature do not just "fall" or happen into place like that. You would logically reason that someone had created that shape with those leaves.
  In much the same way, I believe God created the earth. I reason that in all of the complexity even in just one human eye, someone had to have created or designed that.
  
  And of course, you totally ignored most of my post about the subjects questioning the existance of the artist. You want and are asking for any one of His "subjects" to produce physical evidence of His existance in order for you to believe and we cannot possibly do that being confined to the canvas (earth).
  
  But
  You, cannot provide physical proof nor any evidence not one shread, that he does not exist. There is no evidence abywhere to assert God does not exist and there is no physical proof he does not exist.
  
  You have not traveled the universe and beyond nor has anyone else for that matter, to assert such a claim. You are then put into the position of just not knowing either way.
  
  If science were to proclaim that someone would of had to have scavenged the entire vastness of space, every inch of it, in search of Him and when not finding Him may possibly assert that. But to no avail as that has not happened.
  
  But there have been those to which God has revealed Himself. It is documented. In ancient times there were scrolls which men used to document events in history.
  In one of those scrolls was written about how God had told pharoah to "Let my people Go!" Moses told pharoah this and of course much like you pharoah did not believe in our God. As a result pharoahs kingdom crumbled, his son was killed, his army defeated being crushed after God showed His awesome power and parted the waves only to have them close again down upon them.
  
  And countless other miraculous events which provide evidence to the existance of God and which were documented well before Christianity took root.
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lrohnerposted 15 years ago
Shaul, still no hubs from you? You're going to lose an admirer, and fast if you keep on the way you're going.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's a shame that someone I thought to be intelligent!... You should read the threads of your 'Friend', SS more closely, and you'll see earnesthub is right
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  lrohnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have read them, thank you, Tantrum. I admire his intelligence and his belief in making people think without being a fanatic himself. I don't admire his "holier than thou" attitude.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You don't know what you're talking about! He's no fanatic ? You have read all his threads... Really?'!!. then I don't have anything to say.... Bye !
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atomswifeyposted 15 years ago
http://www.artakiane.com/gallery.html

here is another link for that girl
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goodfriendiamposted 15 years ago
How can we say there is No God, for when I look at say the stars and the open spaces, and my mind begins to wonder, Like for instance, Why if there is no God, and we just ended up here then why doesn't the other planets in the sky have life? Or who keeps everything in order, the cosmos, the atmosphere, gravity? I just don't get how someone can go all day long and not wonder about such things. And what about all the different insects, poof they just happened to appear or where passed down some how through trial and error. I can't fathom that. I mean look just look how unique each insect is. How about the birds that fly, if we have just always been, then what need is there to have so many different species of animals, I don't get it. just my opinion.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is a huge and complex, minuscule and immaculate, but as we discover daily, it requires many great minds to understand it.
  To think it was created by the biblical god is way too big a stretch for me, but I am seeing it all unfold from medicine to the universe, nanotech to brain chemistry, the world and the universe (at least this one) is becoming understandable. We now know what causes aging it is yet another disease caused by a tiny structure that goes amiss.
  To understand this as creation is interesting and a valid standpoint until dissected.
  Then it has trouble explaining who made god.
  Once you go there, the next step is to quote the bible as god's word. A dicey decision in my view.
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  hi goodfriend,
  
  my guess is that spirtiuality outweighs organized religion in what you've just described. just my opinion.
  
  nice new look, btw.
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well said lady
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atomswifeyposted 15 years ago
well Im outta here

Too tired to debate too futile as well

Nite all
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Shaul Steinposted 15 years ago
If you read this topics first post, you will notice that it leaves no room for all the crying and complaining over all the stuff that normally is done by the atheists and agnostics and others who typically like to complain, blame, talk about how unfair everything is, whine and snivel about how God should do this or that or He is not fair or He has no right to do thus and so and they move right to getting into "your God does not exist"!!!

That is why nobody among the unbelievers had a reply and the usual ones did not show up and shout all the normal trash except for e.s. but even he just kept saying "God does not exist" instead of addressing the topic.

And the rest of you just stayed out because you had nothing to cry about so you took your ball and went home.
So still nobody replies because they have no answer when it is put to them like the way it is on the first post!!!

If you tell the unbelievers that GOD DOES NOT answer to them...they soon have nothing to talk about.

They hate knowing Someone else is in charge and can do as they will without consulting anyone.

Read the first post. Nobody an refute it when they have no say in the matter.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago
OY!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Still floggin the same ole horse I see sock puppet!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Yep. You describe a god as if it exists. It simply doesn't.
In thousands of years. Not one piece of proof!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have never seen him. Not even among 10000000000 african children dying of hunger
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ... and that is the evidence that is so damning. We have a sentient life. We know a lot about it scientifically and psychologically, yet the hateful religious wars continue, children die needlessly, while religions fight over which book is true! I know many religious organizations give time people and money to good causes, but the basis of belief is crazy. As long as all the religions insist that such illogical and fanciful stories are to be understood as literal truth, nothing can change.
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is believers who are the ones who ship the most food and medicine.
  Often stolen by evil men and YOU KNOW IT !!!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  MEN CREATED BY GOD !!!
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  With a freewill....individualism !!!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And doomed to hell, by your loving God !
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, you know what your problem is .... you hate rules.
  You like freewill and individualism.....but not rules.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Rules??? what's that ???
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The rule is....you are not that stupid....
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't try to be smart! there are no rules for me. I'm my own creation. I think I said this before
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is obvious is you like rules. For other people. That is almost as crazy as your hate filled god!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And he's so transparent !
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I follow plenty of rules....I cannot make anyone follow them....not my bus.
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  right, and which of the rules of nature do you not follow?
  or the rules on the road?
  or at work?
  or of the government?
  or pick whatever, you know what i mean, you do not make all your own rules.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I do. And the other rules I make them work at my own convenience
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  oh ok.....like what? ;lol:...
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  like every rule
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  but you told me that you love anarchy.....you cannot have rules and anarchy
  
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where did i say that ? anyway I can have whatever I want as I'm my own creation. Isn't that clear ????.
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ahhhhh.....been caught in a contradiction.....you say you love evil too.....evil has rules....
  
  so you want anarchy....unless it's in your room when you sleep....
  and you want rules too???
  
  and evil....unless it's done to you??????
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know what's wrong with you? You don't know how to read between lines. So you'll never get my meanings. And I don't love evil, that was a joke with another hubber called beautyrose. I have a wonderful memory and I know what I said. Anyway I can't care less what you think . You in your world, I, in mine
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Shaul Steinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  as the men the food is shipped to....have it stolen by evil men, very sad.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And who created this men ??
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Typical of a religionist. No humanity! The "individual" is someone's child, sister, brother, not a disposable item!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is an individual more valuable than all of his posterity?
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quietnessandtrustposted 15 years ago
Man do y'all always fight this much?
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  rosariomontenegroposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of course!
  You should go and have a peek at the other discussions ... hell, god, free will ... sound like interesting subjects ... just pretexts for fighting.
  They adore each other, can't live without one another, can't stop fighting, just like siblings.
  I love their bickering, if everybody could do this instead of crashing planes or sending suicide bombers it would be great.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Seems like a strange kind of adoration.
  I think if tantrum was his sibling he would slay him.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That id hilarious coming from you sock puppet! I recall your previous non-identity arguinig that you were going to wipe all the non believers out. You failed then, so you put on a more "lightweight" persona and pretend to be someone else.
  Tiny!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did you actually have a mother?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, I do not. My mother died 10 years ago.
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