Is the law of the land Gods conception?, if not whos is it and why should it be followed?
Please dont comment if you are going to suggest that one must take solace in the idea of heaven.
Law of the Land is made by our constitution a man made if not obeyed we get punished by the law keepers,our corrupt law keepers.God's Law is nature law if you disobey you suffer like smoking and getting your lungs coated with coal tar like film which makes you breath with difficulty.
If one accepts the Bible's teaching on this, then, the Law of the land is God's conception. The primary biblical teaching is found in Romans 13:1 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." That is an absolute and universal statement. According to the Bible, whatever government exists anyplace in the world is by God's choice. They must be obeyed. The Law of that government is the Law of the land. I for one do not accept the Bible as the Word of God, so I do not accept that every government of this world is equally legitimate.
Law in the USA is based on English law, and that is based on the Judeo-Christian traditions, both of those based in the Ten Commandments. Now, not all law 'of the land' is based this way, and even the laws we have today are far departures and refinements of the Commandments.
The view I hold was developed by Henry David Thoreau (an American citizen of the mid-1800s), Gandhi (in India and in response to the British Empire), and by Martin Luther King, Jr.
The laws of God are just and merciful. To the degree that the law of the land (the laws, and constitution behind laws, and legal systems) of any nation are just and merciful, they are indeed in harmony from, and derive their authority from, Divine law. To the degree that humanity in its fallen or confused state has created misguided, unjust, selfish, or violent laws, these are not in harmony with God's laws.
In those cases, what are our options? First, a decision must be made as to the seriousness of the problem with the law. On one hand, if there is a trivial law on the books (such as the apocryphal, "it is illegal to eat tomatoes in the state of New Jersey"), and it isn't enforced anyway, then it is best to simply let it lie. On the other hand, if the law is creating suffering (death, torture, silencing of the truth, injustice, inequality, etc.) then it may be it is time to do something. But the cost of action can be high. So the non-violent practitioner chooses his battles carefully.
One must also explore one's personal relationship with that law. Gandhi forbade people from one state in India traveling to another state to address a local injustice. He felt that the local people must each purify their own government.
1) One uses all the legal means to get the law or governmental system corrected. In a democracy, there are many options - voting; meeting with political leaders and influential people; running for office, and more.
2) If all the relevant options of #1 are tried and lead nowhere, then it is time for non-violent opposition. There are a series of stages to this. The one introduced by Thoreau is Civil Disobedience. One keeps to Divine law and breaks the local law of the land, and then accepts punishment. After all, local law does not say "you cannot do X." It only says, "If you do X, you can be arrested and punished." So the person seeking to purify the law says in return, "Okay, I agree. I believe the law is unjust. I will break it, and abide by the law of the land, accepting punishment." On such a basis, Gandhi led the Salt March and broke the moral authority of the British Empire over India, by showing that government violence against peaceful protesters could not be just. MLK did the same by boycotting buses that made people of color sit in the back.
It is, if He exists, NOT his conception. It is driven by man's desire to govern man, for better or for worse.
Among the worse(st) is history's (and today's!!) disgustingly and sinfully rich tyrants ruling over a dirt-poor populace, as well as, for shameful American example, a legal and cultural acceptance of the whipping post or gas chamber.
The better being a desire to help bring about (and sustain) peace, order, and a democratically determined, or even better, logically AND morally proven idealistic AND administrable code of conduct that may not be perfect, but which eventually solves and breaks the heretofore unbreachable catch-22, of being fair, just and *RIGHT* (factually and morally), to absolutely every single individual member of those so governed.
The current "law of the land" should, regretfully, be followed inasmuch as it does not violate one's seriously studied, DEEPLY thought out, and down *deep* and dug *IN* best and seriously held righteous values, until such time as (and SO that said historic moment can and indeed) comes that "law of the land" which is THE fairest, LEAST fallible, and absolutely most JUST and PERFECT as can be conceived, administered, self-governing (checked and balanced) and "deep down in their (our) guts" fair and honest system of jurisprudence as we mere humans can fathom comes to miraculous fruition!
hahaha, wow. that was a mouthful stanwshura. I THINK I agree, but I'll have to read it again a couple dozen times. Just a suggestion. Discover periods. Other than that, well done.
LMAO! Yeah, I've been given similar opinions and advice a few times. I admit quite the addiction to paranthetical asides, and the stringing together of multiple independent clauses, each of which, by definition, can stand alone as its own sentence!
The law of the Land is based upon God's Law, Individual Freedom.
The Rule of Law is the next best thing to God's Law; Boundlessness, Randomness, Absolute Freedom of Motion; “God’s Law” however is only applicable to a Singularity alone in the Emptiness of Infinite Space, to God.
Man practicing God's Law, Boundlessness, Randomness, Absolute Freedom of Motion results in Chaos.
Moral Law is a dismal failure when it come to bringing the Chaos to order; would that I could I would destroy Moral Law; Moral Law being born of Self-ish Righteousness, being the Law of the Pharos, Pharaoh, the Pharisees; Might is Right.
Man's Law, the Law of the Land, the Rule of Law, is based upon God's Law, allowing for Relative Freedom, resulting in Greater Freedom, brings the Chaos to Order.
That is a nice comment, I pray that everyone gets on the same page and accept God's law and not mans. Man's law is chaotic.
Yes, this is good and if we review history, can we not find men studying law finding one requirement to be that of using the bible which caused some lawyers to become preachers?
Moral Law, is not God's Law, Is Man's misconception of what God's Law might be; is based upon Man's Selfish Righteousness.
God's Law, is the Law that governs God himself,
God being Amoral.
The law has nothing to do with any God, including the gods in the Old Testament.
However the law relies on religion for internalisation of the law. It is always easier to get the people to obey the law ( and to screw them) if you can get some power mad priest, or a religious nutter to say it is God's will.
I should like to answer this but I believe I will let a Great man of God from the Bereans answer it for me. Although I do not agree with some of their doctrine I really am blessed by their teachings.
This is a recent issue and can be found on their site.
Quote: "Laws are stated and have penalties. Rulers enforce them, but that does not stop people from breaking them—in many cases with impunity—especially if they feel no government representative is watching them. The government's power lies largely in coercion, meaning forcible constraint or restraint, whether moral or physical. In other words, it is government by force.
For instance, most people flagrantly disobey the speed limit on freeways and interstates, especially when they are not crowded, until they spot a patrol car with a trooper or two in it. Suddenly, the speed limit becomes the norm until the trooper is again out of sight. That the law is on the books, prominently displayed and common knowledge are insufficient motivation for many people to obey.
But love toward God, the love of God, can motivate us to do what the law says to do but cannot motivate us to do. We can conclude that Paul claims that if one exercises God's love in paying his debt to man, he will keep the commandments.
We could also conclude that Paul says that if one does not break the commandments, he is acting out of love. This is the weaker of the two. Within this context, then, every phase, every facet of our responsibility to God and man, is covered if we make sure love has its place as the motivation for all we do.
If we really love another person, we cannot possibly injure him. Love would immediately stifle any thought that leads to adultery, murder, theft, or any form of covetousness because love cannot harm. Since love cannot break the laws designed to protect another, it is supreme in providing the right kind of persuasion UnQuote".
— John W. Ritenbaugh
Laws are made by men (and women) but are influenced by culture including a religious tradition of that culture. I remember from a graduate international business law course, that religion, law and culture are all intertwined and influence each other. Western society's laws are based on Judeo-Christian traditions. Sharia law based on Islamic tradition. Whether any of these laws are God's law requires two questions to be answered: 1. Is there a God? 2. What religious tradition is God's?
On the question of obedience to laws is subjective. Most people in society believe that laws that protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness such as criminal laws against murder, assault, theft, fraud, etc are societal rules to be obeyed and those who cannot follow them should be punished. On the other hand, traffic laws are generally accept to be followed for public safety but most people break the speed limit. Some people believe that civil disobedience is justified for unjust laws such as segregation laws or laws the deny rights.
Hi Propemortem seems either u are secular or that u don't believe by ur questions about God's law
From your posts, I can tell you take a Cavalnistic view of God's law and I take an Arminian view of God's relationship with man. I believe God gave man laws. I don't think all of man's laws follows God law. I don't think Sharia Law is God's law.
hay u do not think islamic law is good all the law from God is the same a llittle bit of difference here and there because of who the group of people were
See, this generalizing and "sloppy" scholarship (as in the opposite of differentiation and analytic scholarship) leads to all or nothing thinking. As one with (once crippling) OCD, I dare say I'm an expert. 99.9999 is NOT=to 100. Alas for all.
You miss the point. For many Muslims, Sharia Law is God's law. For many Christians the law of the land is based on Judeo-Christian law--hence God's law. Think many Western laws and Islamic laws are not all of God.
This is a really cool question. I hike way off trail sometimes, like a day, or sometimes just serious backcountry trails. Out there you find the law of the land. Poisenous snakes bite, get bit and you may die. 200 ft cliffs make for a decisive landing after misstep. Harm the land and it will harm you back. Conserve. Preserve. Stay out of sun in summer and find it in winter. Stay hydrated. Do not eat questionable berries of leafy plants.Never eat the skin of anything. Catch and release unless you are hungry. You are worth less than endangered species. Sleep well for nothing in and of the land can disturb your peace, only your thoughts can. Be super duper careful with any flame. Treat water.
But there is a organic Law that comes from man. The laws themselves are always cool to the rule but our application of them sucks in too many instances. Abraham Lincoln said to the effect; "Obedience of the Law is the greatest freedom" I think in Plato's republic you will find, something like "Our duty to a state that provides for us is absolute, we can work within to change, we can work without to change, but we must obey it until it is changed"
thank you everyone for your comments, I have read and have tried to understand most of what has been posted here, thank you for your participation in this discussion:).
No, the Law of the Land is man's conception. Sometimes it might be based upon his interpretation of God's law. If the law of the land is in harmony with God's law, then it should be followed.
For example: That you shouldn't kill is from God's law. And we have laws of the land against murder. So far, so good. But what if you see someone murdering thousands and the only way to get them to stop is to take them out, permanently? I suppose I would opt to murder in order to save thousands.
Nazi soldiers were order to murder people in the concentration camps. Perhaps they should've disobeyed that law. After the war, they were found to be war criminals for "only following orders."
One American soldier, Bradley Manning, has been a whistleblower revealing crimes by the United States. He broke the law, but the government and military are breaking the whistleblowing laws which protect whistleblowers. Who's right? I suppose it depends on who is lying. God's law is against telling falsehoods. And when the falsehoods are used to defend secret murders, it's a double crime against God.
The GOP in the run up to the RNC committed multiple acts of fraud, many of them documented on video. They broke their own laws (rules) in an attempt to ensure their golden boy, Romney was nominated without a hitch. They even ignored votes on the RNC floor, again breaking their own rules, just to shove through rules changes they thought would help ensure no more dissent. The DNC did the same thing.
America and its political parties have started down the path to the Dark Side. They have changed the laws of the land to allow murder, theft, coercion and falsehoods.
Take 9/11 for instance. The government committed a felony by destroying crime scene evidence starting on the very day itself. The government lied about 9/11 and blocked independent investigators to cover up their crimes. America is no longer a land of God's law.
Here's Bush looking guilty:
That does not convict him. Perhaps only facing God himself, will he have to face his crimes. I know I will have to face God for mine.
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