Can you give it time or prefer to remain busy in your daily working routine.If so should we
arrange some time for worhip.What you have to say in this regard?
The religion I subscribe to is a lifestyle, so I practice it 24-7.
Religion teaches a life style.Any religion in itself is not a lifestyle.
Don't you think there is a possibility different people have different opinions on this?
Yes, I have a different opinion
My religion is a lifestyle. You can't separate the two. They're interdependent.
No,its not about opinion nor i am talking about any specific religion.Religion and lifestyle could not be synonymous words.There are also lifestyle trendsetters.
Well the time for concentrated worship is during the nighttime before I go to bed. But usually throughout the day I say a prayer or thanks to God.
It all depends what you define as "practice".
Since I should have died twice already, I consider my entire life to be a gift, and I consider whoever is in front of me right now to be my opportunity to serve.
My work is entirely dictated by my spiritual practice, as are my relationships.
If I stop living in accordance with my highest values, I may as well be dead, anyway.
The only way to be fully alive is to be in spiritual practice.
That's how I see it.
But then, my definition of "spiritual practice" doesn't include going to a designated building several times a week and doing the required "good works" according to the dictates of an Earthly religion, so my version of spirituality doesn't interfere with (or compete with) real life the way organised religion can.
i agree with you,Talem.Most spiritual personalities found night a perfect time to be close to their God.
''Cowards die many times before their deaths but the valiants never taste of death but once.''Shakespear said.So what made you think you are already dead.Why not the practise you are affiliated with cannot give you a feeling of an alive person.
I think you misunderstood what I said.
I said "If I stop living in accordance with my highest values, I may as well be dead, anyway."
If I betray, go against, my highest values, then I have stopped practising my spirituality, and I may as well be dead physically, because I have killed my soul.
To go against your own deepest truth is to kill yourself, psychologically.
Of, course, it is better to restore congruence by returning to my highest values and being fully alive than by killing myself! That's what I usually do, anyway ....
I can't tolerate the "living dead" state for very long these days.
Sorry,but i donot think i misunderstand you,infact i have not understood you yet,how can i msunderstand.what are the highest values,set by you or set by some religion.i mean some people have their own boundaries and others follow or try to follow the limits kept by the religion they believe in.
Religion is a lifestyle for those who run the church like priests. But you may be right about the average practitioner, who
observes religion once a week or year. However spirituality as distinct from religion may be a 24 hour a day thing.
What's the point of posting on forums and reading them if the only possible opinion is yours, and all other opinions are not just wrong, they are not allowed to exist? It's kinda puzzles me...
I think religion (both official and internal) or a lack of it do define a lifestyle to a great extent, sometimes completely like in a case of monks and religious fanatics...
La religion, opium du people et protestation contre la misère réele (religion is the opium of the people)
Of course, you could draw a distinction between religion (the outward performance of rituals practiced by a particular community) and spirituality (the inward attitude, if you will, of the individual). It is, I think, an important distinction to draw.
I think the practice of religion is an inward dedication that becomes manifest outwardly. Some practice their religion in a congregation without dedication on the inside, it becomes a nothing more then an empty choice that has no freedom, however when full of dedication to God, you can practice 24-7 without effort because your free from confindes that dictate when or where or how you should practice.
But when manifest in it's purest of heart and intentions, it comes out as a group practice that others adapt because being together with other people who feel the same way as you do is very powerful, and it strengthens the root that is inside.
So using the term practice is a futile word, because its not a practice at all.
LOL that exactly what communists kept saying while planting their own religion substitute
topstuff, that's a pretty terrible thing to say, and not really in the spirit of how we want to behave in this forum.
It may or may not be.i cannot take religion as an opium.Who doesnot cosider religion more than opium.Thats their say and their way.Let the world go.is it ok
I think she used opium as a metaphore. No one is letting the world go that is something very primitive I think in your own mind. It's more like people tryng desperatly to come together so that the world doesnt fall apart.
No one gets on you about your practices because thier right for you and what you believe and it is the "opium" in which brings you life. This is the purpose right of life right? To find God and have life?
A congreation couldbe the best way to keep people united.I cannot see anyone compelling the other to practice,yes i have seen some advising others to obey religion.i am not saying 24/7 practice means to adapt isolation from world.
We're wandering into the region of one of my hobby-horses - jumping to the result, and skipping the practice.
Here's how it goes, over and over.
Someone has a spiritual breakthrough, and starts living spiritually. As a result, their behavior shifts. They are compassionate with others. They no longer crave and pursue material satisfactions.
Other people get to hear about this person, "gurufy" them, and observe them.
"Oh, they say, what a spiritual person, see how contented they are, how at peace. I want that! How do they get that? Well, they behave differently from most people. They turn the other cheek. They live simply and celibately. IF I BEHAVE THAT WAY, I WILL GET TO FEEL THAT WAY, TOO."
And the capitalised bit is of course there the fundamental error of cause and effect is made.
Guru person BEHAVES that way BECAUSE they feel a certain way, not the other way around.
Relinquishing attachment to material things happens naturally once your focus is at a spiritual level. Trying to "get spiritual" by avoiding and resisting the trappings of wealth is totally counterproductive, and will only strengthen and perpetuate the imbalance which makes you chase them, by driving it underground and thus making it harder to dismantle.
Likewise celibacy - naturally, or not at all, please!
Some of the sleaziest people in the world are the ones who are "white-knuckling" celibacy or monogamy.
Forcing yourself into a practice of self-denial by an exercise of will pushes you further away from true, grounded spirituality, IME.
Thanks, you formalized the fuzzy feeling I had for quite some time already, but never been able to put into words! This post of yours is something to put on the wall right at the desk and remind myself about on a daily basis!
Wow, coming from you that is high praise indeed!
P.S. Maybe I should write a Hub about it!
Yes - I think you should.
I do have a couple of problems with what you are saying ....
I think the main problem is that we don't have an accepted, all-purpose definition of "spiritual" and "spirituality". Many people view spirituality purely as a manifestation of religious belief (I know you don't do this), while others use "spiritual" as a synonym for "supernatural" (I don't think you do this either.)
I suppose I am finding it difficult to accept your premise that spirituality (whatever it is) is only possible if we relinquish material things.
As a "materialist" (in the philosophical sense) I believe I am still just as capable as the next person of experiencing transcendent thoughts and turning my mind to matters of a higher, or "spiritual", nature.
Indeed, it is often the physical, material world which inspires such thoughts and feelings in the first place.
I struggle therefore to accept the total dichotomy (which you seem to be implying) between the spiritual and the physical.
Or I have simply grasped the wrong end of the metaphysical stick (as usual)?
Actually, Thom, I was criticising those who assert that "the path to spirituality is to reliquish the material".
I assert that is a confusion of cause and effect.
I am supremely unconcerned with most material things WHEN I am in a state of spiritual awareness, BECAUSE of the state, ie the state comes first and causes my attachment to dissolve.
I am without attachment, but I still HAVE material things. And my path back to spiritual awareness when I have had a moment of forgetfulness if often through becoming intensely present to physical sensations.
However, if I WANTED material things, and got anxious about acquiring them, I would not be in a state of spiritual awareness.
What I am saying is that the spiritual state causes the behaviour (eating sparingly, being content with periods of celibacy or monogamy, enjoying the simple pleasures of life as much or more than the luxurious ones, etc) - if you try to leap to the behaviour by willpower, thinking it is the path to spirituality, you will only drive yourself (and everyone around you) mad.
I probably should start a religion. I'd probably get a lot of converts with the message "if you want sex, have sex", LOL.
I'd love to practice a religion, but the fact that they're all just made up prohibits me from being able to suspend disbelief long enough to really believe in invisible sky kings and eternal tortures. The arbitrary rules are pretty off putting as well, you must wear this ...X...., or you should never eat ...X. food. Then you look at pictures from the hubble telescope and see the sheer vastness of the universe and the mind boggles at how it could possibly matter whether or not I ate fish today.
(That probably sounds disrespectful, but I don't intend it that way, I seriously envy those who can have belief in such things, I even have a degree in the subject because of my fascination with it. Also, once again, I am up way too late posting on philosophical forums.)
no disrespect taken, have you ever gone out and visited with the people of different religions themselves? I mean, going out and understanding these people for yourself? Without doctorines, or books on how to yadda, yadda..just an open mind.
true, though I look out and space all the time and wonder, what effect did I have on anything, but then I think, well...if we are the only things capable of the things that we do, then we must be pretty special, and if we are alone with or without God, then our purpose in life is for each other.
Religon may be made up, but it was inspired by something or someone for a purpose, just like I believe we have purpose. So while I believe in evolution, I don't believe it was an accident. Some say, well we are the only planet with life, so compared to the vastness of the universe, we are just an anomoly. And I say, if it wasn't for people and our ability to comprehend, think, to have consciousness, then the entire Univerese wouldn't exist if it wasn''t for our observation. Theoretically, the universe could exist without us, but then it really would mean nothing because no one would be around to gauk at it and give it names and wonder about why and how it got there in the first place.
So we mean everything to something or someone or just to each other.
You keep fascinating me with your system of beliefs. They are so - umm - unusual and so complete and consistent, and resonate with my yet unspoken feelings so much - I have a great urge to join your religion if you happen to start one.
The problem is - I feel about Jenny's beliefs similar way. Why don't you girls join and found a new religion together?
You can count me in then
flattering, but I think we already have and I think you already have as well. lol.
You could not catch the point,its a point made to you going to introduce another religion.Notice the word '"unusual".Well,i think there are already many.One should try to choose from them.Maybe you think now its a common impression about your beliefs.
In what sentance did I say this is my religion? In what sentance did I say, I made my own religion? In what sentance did I suggest to anyone that they should convert? In what sentance did I give it a name?
The answer is none. Topstuff, seriously, if something is bothering you to an extremist point, where you feel angered enough to reply with negitive insight, then why don't you help us understand you? I have asked you a few times, to explain, but yet you don't and for what purpose?
So how can anyone understand you if you aren't first willing to share what you know?
Have you read my Goddess Answers Hubs?
I think the Goddess would be my deity of choice. I like a Deity who says "my words mean nothing, don't listen to me", LOL.
P.S. Now to design outfits for the acolytes ...
topstuff, you are misinterpreting what Jenny said. Please stop being insulting to others, in this forum section especially. Keep it nice, please?
Oh, and I completely agree with Sandra that without human consciousness none of this exists, hence my agnosticism and the analogy of fish trying to understand the waves while being completely submerged.
I think Sandra is right - the "new" religion has been around forever, we all feel it, sometimes fuzzy, but we feel it. And it is the same for all of us.
My sister is a Buddhist, my brother a born-again Christian, my aunt a purple-wearing, crystal-waving New Age mystic, and yet the four of us agree that we have the identical experience of spirituality.
Nobody can accurately describe it, which is why we can the ever-expanding array of religions.
But the actual experience is ineffable.
I like to say that organised religion is dedicated to effing up the ineffable ...
exactly, but I don't think the intentions of religion were to effing the eneffable, I think rather, that organized religions were with the best intentions until someone with bad intentions exploited the groups as a whole and made it something it was not meant to be. Via: the "devil" if you will, so because we can never put a name on what we know, it is always protected.
I figure as soon as you give it a name, then it's open for exploitation and with regards to that, people should listen first to the things that aren't spoken, in that way we keep it safe inside and "undefiled".
It's not a new religion, nor an old religion or a religion at all. What it is, just is. and the only way to know it is to know it yourself, and no doctrines not even the Bible can tell you how to find it, how to seek it, and how to know it.
Yip Jenny, I know exactly what you are talking about.
I suspect topstuff struggles with English, or at least reading and writing it. I'm not sure we can have a deep philosophical exchange without a better shared platform for communication.
Thanks to everyone who shared their views.Ok lets switch to another point.Another day i was thinking that mostly people affiliated with adsense program keep trying to new different techniques of placing ads sometimes in the middle,at the end or corners.Different pallets and colors are matched with the content color and muchelse that perhaps i donot know.Perhaps its because even an uninterested reader in the ads couldnot escape.Much probability is created so a reader also could click mistakenly.Is not it an attempt of snatching a readers right Or this is all for the conveience of a reader,or injustice with the reader or cheating or somethingelse .Now please take it lightly im not referring to anyone
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