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Would you torture one of your children or loved ones forever?
Eph 4:6One God and Father of all,
who is above all, and through
all, and in you all.
absolutely not. I cannot conceive of an eternal punishment for any finite crime. The entire basis of it is immoral and contradictory. If one of my children truly deserved to be punished for an action or behavior, that punishment would be finite - like their behavior was. An eternal punishment is contradictory to the idea of love, mercy and forgiveness.
In the case of god, I would say, the standards are even higher. If he claims (as he does) that he wants everybody in the world to follow him, but will send to hell the 2/3 of people that have not throughout history and today in the present, he's exacting eternal damnation for the finite actions of a single lifetime. The idea of a god who is perfectly just is irreconcilable with the idea that he is perfectly merciful. Justice is getting what you deserve, while mercy is the suspension of justice.
JM.. If we are to live by the Old Testament why are we not still sacrificing animals for redemption, why is divorce frowned upon, do you have an alter in your backyard for the sacrificing of animals.
Divorce is frowned upon? Then why do Christians have the highest divorce rate in the country? Malachi 3:6 - god doesn't change. If his laws were moral in the OT, they're still moral now. That IS your book, right? Again. Atheist. No sacrifice.
The only grounds for divorce are adultery in which too many people choose to do so. Christians, atheists, etc. In the Old Testament you could divorce for no reason. I thought you would probably know that?
I do know that actually. You think that all christian divorces are because of adultery? Nice try. Divorce rates are the highest among baptists - and the lowest among atheists and other religions aside from christianity - in this country, at least.
NO, I said the New Testament says the only grounds for divorce is adultery. I didn't say that's why everyone divorces. People from all walks of life divorce for many reasons. You just want to argue for the sake of arguing don't you?
You just like to make silly assumptions, don't you?
SOM...... Respectfully, you need to stop quoting from the old law. We are now living under the new covenant since the sacrifice of Jesus.
this is a part of the "new covenant" as well - all though the "new covenant" is a christian invention - and not one that is biblically based.
It is biblicaly based. Jesus Christ talks about this in the New Testament
oh yeah? Where is that? Jesus says that calling on him is not enough. Prophesying in his name and doing miracles and believing in him is insufficient - unless you do the "will of his father in heaven" If god created the OT and god does not change
And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
21. 21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had
and where in that verse does it say the Old Law is out and irrelevant - or is that just your personal extrapolation?
It claims the new testament as well as universal salvation being false.
It claims the new testament is false? Good - did all the work for me.
No, not what I said. It claims the new testament is true and universal salvation is false. I suggest you do your homework and read the new testament. Apparently, you have no knowledge of it whatsoever.
my professors that gave me my degree in theology at Biola would kind of disagree with you, especially since I read it in three different languages. Don't make stupid assumptions. It backfires.
I would have to question this, especially if you do not believe the New Testament is the new covenant? Unless you are Jewish and live by the old law?
Actually, my time studying the NT and the bible as a whole turned me into an atheist. I don't believe in any of it anymore. Doesn't mean that I don't study it though. The idea of a New Covenant came much MUCH later to avoid conversions to Judaism.
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised e
the tradition of the last supper (or the lord's supper, according to Paul) does not at any time state that the OT law is not to be followed. Matthew 7:21
It's right there for you to read. But, you are an atheist, you don't believe any of it so why debate it?
I am not obligated to take direction from you J, especialy when it is my question. If you dont like my questions then stop answering them. You are a spiritual terrorist promoting the most destructive image of my Father.
do you have to believe in something to enjoy discussing it? That's silly. Is your view of the world really that closed-minded and narcissistic? According to the bible, god doesn't change. Why, then, do you assume his laws do?
Just interjecting my opinions as you so often do on my questions. Why do you say this? Because i don't agree with you? I know my personal relationship with Jesus and God the father and am quite comfortable with it.
Interjecting an opinion is one thing, but telling me to do something or stop speaking about the nature of my Father is another. I see you and your friend CJ battleing me, but I come prepared. I have my Father with me.
fortunately for the rest of us, J, being comfortable with something does not automatically mean that you are correct.
JM... You just explained yourself and SOM. God Bless!!
oh! Was that meant to be an insult? How christ-like you are. Yes, it applies to everyone - even you. Nice try. Takes more than that to get to me. What gives you the ultimate authority to decide what's true and what's not. Are you god?
NO, no insult at all. I am only human as we all are.
@J, instead of posting your opinion, just answer the question. If you have children, would you torture them for ever for the same reasons God will?
I am not God. That is not my decision to make. I would hope all of my loved one's will be saved and spend eternity in Heaven. Everyone on the face of the earth for that matter. This is why we are to spread the good word.
like always you cower and hide behind the image of God you believe in. I find your like the most selfish of all people. You believe in hell, yet you have children. You gamble their destiny so that you can have them. Purely selfish.
Think about what I just posted if you believe in hell and decide to have children.
you want everyone in the world to be saved, and you think that the best method to bring that about is to ridicule them, insult them and rush to judgement of people that don't agree with you. Sounds like a good plan. How is that working out for you?
@J, Your spiritual cancer does not work.
Ah, the typical way a christian blesses his enemy
No, we are both children of God, no matter our difference in beliefs.
So Christ commands you to insult and ridicule those who think differently? You seem to be little more than a closed minded egomaniac. This is why I enjoy contradicting you. I don't respect those who have so little respect for others
I agree, but that also includes the reat of all mankind Eph 4:6
Let me turn your question around. Would you torture one of your children forever? What on earth made you think of this question to ask. Geez Do you torture little animals too?
This is my answer to my question. I would never think of harming my child, as my four year old son is a blessing and a sweety. But even if he turned out to be a rebel towards his mother and myself, we would never abandon him as his our son and we will always love him. This is why I know that God would not do so to any of His children. But I will say this. If hell is real and my little son ends up spending an eternity there alone, I would rather be with my son than with a demanding tyrant of a deity. At least my son will not be alone. This is love.
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