Have You Ever Wondered This About Christianity?

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   CrescentSkiesposted 11 years ago

   Have You Ever Wondered This About Christianity?
   
   So in one of our weekly religious debates one of my friends brought up the idea that Satan may actually be the good guy. His logic is that Satan punishes sinners and therefore creates a situation where doing bad things is discouraged and doing good things is rewarded. Have you ever thought of this and why Satan seems to be more of god's jailer instead of his arch rival?

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   manatita44posted 11 years ago

   Satan is the adversary, the impediment or obstacle standing in the way. You may chose to walk around it or remove it. The art of doing this, is the lesson that will elevate your consciousness and take you towards the Light. Perhaps that's what your friend meant. Satan is part and parcel of God's plan.

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   Larry Wallposted 11 years ago

   The only reward Satan can offer is eternal damnation. He may cause things to happen to your life that may seem rewarding, but the ultimate payoff is eternity in Hell.  To answer your question, no, I never gave any thought to Satan being the good guy. Satan encourages sin. He does not every truly reward sinners in a manner that will cause them to do good.

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   calynbanaposted 11 years ago

   Satan does not punish. Satan does not rule over Hell. Jesus does. Hell was not made for people but for Satan and his fallen angels. People do not go to Hell because of Satan, or for Satan to punish them. They go to Hell because they willingly choose separation from God, Hell. They are not there to be punished at all. Just read what the Bible has to say about Hell and Satan and you will have a clear answer to your question. The Satan and God portrayed in your question, are not the Satan and God described in the Bible.

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      SPIRIT n TRUTHposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Calynbana, great answer, thank you. What do you mean specifically that people are not in hell to be punished? Could you say more about that? Thanks.

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   Lady Guinevereposted 11 years ago

   Satan is an Angel and as such cannot do anything.  Angel are only messengers of God.  Satan was sent to earth and that was where he is supposed to live.  Why would God send his very favorite Angel to somewhere that is as beautiful as this planet is?  We punish and reward ourselves by our thoughts and deeds.

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      ViolinByCourtneyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      What? Angels are more than just messengers. Each has a specific purpose, and the only named angel who serves solely as a messenger in the Bible is Gabriel. Michael is a warrior. Lucifer (i.e. Satan) made music before he was exiled from heaven.

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      Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Lucifer made music before being exiled from heaven? Where exactly in ther bible is this story given?

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      Lady Guinevereposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Satan was the most beautiful angel there was.  There were man, many more angels in that bible but were taken out in the 5-6th century AD

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      lady g -- you need to stop believng fairy tales.  satan never was an angel, that story is a lie.
      and VC  lucifer is not satan, he is the king of babylon

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      Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Celafoe - Agreed.

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      Seek-n-Findposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Check out this link for some scriptures related to the origin of Satan before his fall:  http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-music.html

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ladyg-- you really need to stop writing this foolishness and learn truths

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      seeknfind--  That site is not scriptural and is garbage.   read and study the bible not what men say and you will find truth.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      celafoe, That is what it says in the Bible and if you don't believe it then you don't believe it.  Stop trying ti instigate something I want no part of.

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       ladyg-- no where in the bible does it say that  if yu read 14 verse 3 it tell you its talking about the king of babylon--i can lead you to truth but i cant make you see it  it is for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear

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       Larry Wallposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Satan as a messenger can have tremendous influence because of the message that he might deliver. Humans do bad things. They are often led to do those things because of the message delivered by Satan.

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   12. 52

       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       larryw-- true but that is no excuse, it is not his fault the follow their flesh and not the Spirit  James 3 verses 12 - 16  makes it clear who is responsible.

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       Seek-n-Findposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       It's not about the site--its about the verses referenced.  Easier to paste a link than all the verses...What are the mentioned verses in reference  to then, in your opinion?

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       seek-- not my opinion it is worthless but scripture.   go back to eze 28 verse 1 and you will see this is speaking to the price of tyre-- go to Isiaah  14 vs 3 and you will see this is about the king of babylon-- the churches are lying about this

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       Seek-n-Findposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, I've read them.  My understanding is that scripture has layers of meaning.  Like Psalm 22 being a Messianic prophecy, for example.  Wasn't Hebrew thought circular and with layers of depth?  Literal truths with deeper spiritual insights beneath?

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6. 71

   Seek-n-Findposted 11 years ago

   Doing good as motivated by fear of punishment is not something I'd call truly good.  This is not love.  Love is good.  God is love.  God is good.  God invites people into a love relationship in which the motivation is love and free will is fully operating.  What your friend speaks to, I think, is the way in which no matter what happens--even the bad things--God can still work it for good.  He may not cause it, but it still serves a higher purpose that fulfills God's plan.  So, for example, justice is a good thing.  If a mass murder who killed lots of innocent children went into court and the judge said, "Ahh...no big deal.  I'll let you go back out there" people would be outraged because justice did not prevail and now this person is a danger to self and society.  Our morality longs for justice.  So the price of sin is death and Satan and hell play a role in this.  Yet perfect love (God) desires that none should perish but that all should have eternal life.  So this God, who is a just judge, must allow the payment for sin to be served, but in an act of radical sacrifice he gives us son to be our ransom and to pay the price that ALL of his sons and daughters would be saved and reconciled unto him.  Satan choose to fall from grace.  The angels that follwed him chose this as well.  Hell was intended for them--never for humans (as I understand it) yet those who choose to remain in sin also remain in the fullness of that sin which is death eternal.  Satan does not motivate people to do good--he only tempts them to do bad.  Even people who try to do good when motivated by fear, guilt, or shame (such are the tactics of Satan) are not actually doing good.  Motive matters.

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      ViolinByCourtneyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. Doing good out of fear is not good at all, for it involves acting in one's own best interest rather than that of others. I believe evil would exist even if Satan didn't, for good is best defined by what it is not.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      in answer to the one where my comment was deleted below--the bible is clear if you read the full scripture for context that neither of those scriptures refer to satan as it says there they are a rebuke  to two MEN

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   anancelesteposted 11 years ago

   This reminds me of the story of Job. Where God and Satan were taking a walk and talking. ( weird Isn't) People read the bible and see movies and only absorb what they want. After 26 years of studying theology and theosophy, is clear that there is reason why people are so confused. Satan means "The Accuser ", meaning he points out to God, our sin. But, I think is easier to say "the devil made me do it" instead of taking responsibility of our own  faults.
   
   Many scholars have proposed that this figure in the Hebrew bible is mainly the PERSONIFICATION of evil. I can see his point. We are imperfect beings that we have to be told what is right and what is wrong. And on top of that threatened to spend an eternity in a fiery pit so to keep us in line. Is not that we are not good, but is puzzling how we spend most of our lives weeding out our hearts from evil.
   
   Is he God's  jailer? If that is the case, then we are in trouble. When judgement comes, we have no alibi, no excuse. If he is "the enemy of men" is still bad because free will gives us accountability. I have thought about it, specially since reading the scriptures. Is presented as temptation, not a rival of God. Why would an all knowing God would create his own nemesis?
   
   Isaiah 46:9
   
   "I am God, and there is none like me,
   declaring the end from the beginning
   and from ancient times things not yet done."

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      CrescentSkiesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Probably the best answer i've gotten here, everyone else either rejects the idea completely without allowing for an assumption or just downplays the comment to try and attack my nonexistant beliefs, thank you

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   Disappearingheadposted 11 years ago

   Satan as understood by the Church today is entirely a Christian manmade fabrication. It is based upon 4 centuries of inter-testament superstition inherited by the Church, wilful misrepresentation of the Old Testament, and embellished over the centuries by pagan mythology to provide the Church with a means to mind control the great unwashed.
   
   To find out who or what Satan actually is you simply need to study Jewish theology and read the OT. Satan is a generic term for anyone human or angel that opposes the actions of men or accuses men before God. It is not a name of an individual. For example, according to the Hebrew, David was called a satan by the Philistines when he hid in their country from Saul; they though he would turn on them. In Numbers 22:22 the Angel of the Lord is a satan in the Hebrew, meaning an angel sent by God to oppose Balaam. In 1 Kings 22:19-23 and 2 Chron 18:17-22, God sends a lying spirit to speak from the mouths of the false prophets in order to deceive the king.
   
   Angels cannot rebel against God as they have no free will. God will send a satan to oppose men's actions, and in all cases this satan is a faithful servant of God.
   
   The problem came when Judah was exiled to Babylonia. After the Persians invaded, the Jews were influenced by Zoroastrianism which has very many similarities to Judaism; one supreme creator God, and a future messiah to put the world right. However whilst Isaiah stated that both good and evil come from God; Isaiah 45:6-8 "So that they know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides Me, I [am] Jehovah, and there is none else, Forming light, and preparing darkness, making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'", Zoroaster said that evil originates from an opposing force called Ahriman. Thus Zoroastrianism is dualistic not monotheistic. To the Jews this became a more satisfactory explanation as like Christians today, they didn't like the idea of  God bringing evil.
   
   Ahriman led a hoard of evil spirits in opposition to God (Ahura Mazda) and the concept of these evil spirits or demons became part of Jewish superstition. However search the OT and you will not find a single occurrence of a demon or an evil spirit in opposition to God. By the time Jesus came along, an evil arch fiend called Satan and demons had become completely ingrained into Jewish culture and beliefs, but as the OT was the only scripture available, these beliefs were entirely unbiblical.

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      anancelesteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This is completely accurate.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the truth and the history of Satan.  Most Christians or religions teach the parishioners or followers not to do research other than that one book that isn't even what it was in the beginning

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   peachpurpleposted 11 years ago

   i don't know much ,about satan. But i do know that satan deeds are everywhere and it's up to us to decide whether to follow the satan footsteps or go against it. If one fears God , bad things don't happen. People just love to take challenges to end out seeking for forgiveness.

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      CrescentSkiesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This is more of a conceptual question of why satan punishes evil if he himself is evil.

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    JThomp42posted 11 years ago

    Satan is a liar and will convince people of such ideas. Satan has been damned for his actions, this is his reward for turning his back on God. People should take this as a lesson. Turn your back on God?

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       Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       When did Satan turn his back on God? The Hebrew Scriptures make no mention of any such thing, or demons either. In fact Job tells us that this satan and God had a nicely friendly chat, catching up on news about what was happening.

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       O come on DH. Satan rebelled against God and was cast of of Heaven.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Satan didn't like that God told him that humans were above him.  Satan got sent to Earth for his kingdom.  Earth is NOT hell and Satan wasn't damned.  A fit punishment to take care of humans from the place they are to live on.  Not turn back on God

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Where do you all get this stuff??

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       Lady Guinevereposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Where do you?

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       The holy Bible.

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Jthom & LG you are both wrong.  God created satan for the job.  He never was angel.  "ALL angels that left there abode" are in chains until the judgement.  Read the bible.It clearly says ALL things were created BY HIM. dont listen to apostate men

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       Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I'm sorry JT, but just where does the bible speak explicitly of satan rebelling against God and being cast out of heaven? Don't quote Revelation now as that contains Babylonian astrology and took 300 years of arguing over before being canonised.

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Of course you do not want me to quote the scripture that proves it. Typical!!

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        celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Jthomp-- I would like to see the scripture that proves it taken in context.  No one has been willing to show it to me in the last 40 yrs, so how about you do it.

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        JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Celafoe nothing could be shown to you that is even concrete evidence, because you have your mind made up that you know it all.

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        celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        jthomp-- that is a lie.   if you can give scripture in context to support your view I will publicly repent and change what i teach.   but if you cannot then you must do that.  what are you afraid of? being proven wrong?  Give them to me if you can .

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        Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Celafoe. Like you I have wondered why people push a 'beautiful gemstone musical angel that got proud and wanted God's throne, so got thrown out with a 3rd of angels' story, but singularly fail to prove it from the bible.

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    celafoeposted 11 years ago

    Actually I have written about that.   Satan was created by God in the garden and is  an agent of God.   His job is to test us.  For the Christian , since Jesus defeated him, he has no power other than to tempt us as shown below in James.   He only has power when you follow your flesh instead of the Spirit and do what you know not to do.   In the Garden, if Adam had done his job and said "no i will not eat that" there would not have been a fall.    The fall was because Adam shirked his responsibility and ate along with his wife.   As the authority he should have said no, the fall was his fault.  .  He listened to his wife instead of God.
    So you could make the case that satan is doing you a favor by showing you the areas of your life that have not been fully given to God.
    James makes it clear that "the devil DID NOT" make you do that.
    James 1:2  2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, 
    12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.  16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
    Do not mistake what I am saying, he is a bad guy that's why he ends up in the lake of fire.   But if we learn to use him and not let him use us then he can actually be useful to us..

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
       8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
       9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       JTHOM   this scripture is to occur at the end and has not happened yet so it does not fit here

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       Seek-n-Findposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       What would you say is the difference between being tempted and being tested?

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       seek--- being tested is to prove you are who you say you are, its purpose is redemption-truth.   tempting is designed for condemnation, to make you fall away

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       @celafoe... So you believe we can "fall away?" Meaning you do not believe once saved always saved?

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       jt      yes that is correct.  and again you throw up a smoke screen by changing   the subject--  instead of proving what you espouse   how devious!  I was talking about the scripture about the devil being cast out has not yet happened

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       There is no need in debating you celafoe. I have ran into very many like you and it would be a total waste of time. Let's just say our beliefs are very different. Salvation should not be used as a scare tactic. God is love , so is salvation.

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       jthomp42
       I have put up with your fooishness long enough.  and your false humility and snide remarks.
       I am tired of you nipping at my heels like a little puppy .  I am also tired of you calling me a liar.  I am not.   I do not know everything and h

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       JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Just agree to disagree and stop picking everyone apart that does not agree with you (which are very few) Just leave it alone. See you in Heaven.

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        celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        more words==no scriptures and no substance.    I pick no one apart.   I do check what is written against scripture and correct the errors .   that is scriptural.    Because some  do not agree does not make the truth a non truth.  Like I said grow up.

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        JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        LOL.... I must laugh celafoe. Just stop speaking to me please. If you need your ego to hear you are right? I must disagree.

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        celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        jthomp.  .sorry but i have no ego, just love for scripture truth
        Prov 9:8 Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you;Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.
        , 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man,But its end is the way of death.

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    taburkettposted 11 years ago

    as usual, someone wants to portray bad as good.  Bad is not good because it does not present good, but rather the lack of it.  Satan does not punish, but simply accepts the rejects.  In all dual operations, there must be an opposite in order to account for the entire group.  In this case it is mankind being split into Heaven and Hell.  Those who go to Hell to join Satan are rejected from Heaven, therefore, the good is only portrayed by those who reach Heaven.  God accepts all who believe and live through his teachings.  Those who do not, end up as the default workforce for Satan.

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    Say Yes To Lifeposted 10 years ago

    I've never thought of Satan as being God's Jailer.  I've always seen it as, whatever side you choose, you deal with the ruler.  Choosing evil, you reap the evil Satan provides.
    Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor, wrote a book called "God on Trial", in which there can't be a trial because God can't find a lawyer.  Eventually, someone volunteers - and it is Satan.  I should read it; it sounds very interesting.

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