According to the scriptures that I read, until they have reached the age of accountability; Their salvation is dependent upon the salvation of their parents.
Salvation is dependant on the person alone. All your parents can do is tell you(or not tell you) about God. If you die before you can be held accounatcle (child, mental illness etc) God is just and I believe He God will grant mercy. Jesus is the key, not mom and dad.
This is the lie that religionists tell to ensure children are indoctrinated in to their hate filled vile religion.
Christophobe, move on with your evil, fear mongering, hate speech.
Hate speech? I could never match your homophobic religious crud!
The passage that I was refering to was in the Old Testament; I didn't think about how the blood of the lamb would have added to that law as well.
"THANKS" for the correction, or should I say the reminder.
Oh, dear... here we go again -- on with the fun, I guess...
Look, it's ABSURD that an all-compassionate, all-merciful, all-loving, all-powerful God would allow a child to go to hell!
I have a headache...
Are you talking about the same God who will not force anyone to go to heaven against their will?
Not sure, have to think about that one; all I mean is that it is a LOGICAL impossibility that, according to the definition of the phrases "all compassionate" "all merciful" and "all loving" that an all powerful God would just sit by and watch a child end up in hell, never mind millions of children.
I mean, it is simply not logical -- is someone saying that God is not logical, or that Christian doctrine is not logical...
I mean, once we give up logic let's all just start driving east to get to California, and questioning whether 2 times 2 is four...
.. or handling snakes and talking in tongues, all signs of insanity.
But at least these things do not defy logic; I mean, if God is "partially compassionate" or only "partly powerful" then the logic works, but as it stands it is a contradiction
There seems to be two schools of though amongst religionists.
The bible is to be taken literally.
The bible is to be read partly as parables and history
The latter would be fine if interpreted the same way which very few if any do.
It's ok for me, I think, if people interpret different things differently. It's true that we then end up with the conclusion "nobody knows for sure", but there are lots of things like that, things we accept anyway: "what is romantic love?" for example? It's ok to me that different people have different answers to this. Actually, even "What is hell"? or "What is salvation"? are ok questions to ask, I think. But to pretend you know 100% for sure, in the sense that the rest of us should believe you... not into that..
God is completely passionate and loving. As loving and compassionate He is, He will not force ytou to do soemthing you don't want to do.
Everyone has to make a decision. No one is exepomt from making it. Children are an exception, but eventually most children grow to what is called, "The age of accountability."
Most children learn at an early age that there is right and there is wrong. They learn to lie to get out of trouble at an early age also. It isn't something that is taught to them.
Everything you just wrote is completely sensible and logical (I am not debating God's existence by the way - I am just saying what you wrote makes sense with *itself*).
My beef is that an all-merciful, forgiving God would permit something like hell to exist at all! I mean, that's a bit harsh, good lord!
Hell is like a trash dump. God created everything. Hell is where the trash goes. Satan is the one thing God created hell for. Man was never meant to go there, but men choose to go there.
I would say that, if you did a poll, you might have a job to find someone choosing to go there.
Actually, the theology of hell being for Satan and his angels is fine for me. I mean, let's face it, if there is a Devil he deserves a damn good scorching -- there's a lot of crap in the world, and someone should pay!
But the average human being goes about his whole life, minding his own business, trying to make a living, slipping up now and then, perhaps being rude or selfish sometimes. I mean, perhaps he should get some punishment of some kind for that; but hell???? No, that's too much. It's over the top: flies in the face of the basic principle of Christianity, that God wants to forgive mankind, and in fact set up a system to do it...
Sorry, but if God is all-powerful, he should stop people going to hell, (except I guess perhaps the very worst of people, I suppose, maybe).
If you were to do a poll on HubPages forums you would get an LOL from most. Many don't believe it is real. They don't believe God is real. Many don't believe Jesus Christ was a real person.
Who did God poll before creating everything?
I know, I was just yankin' yr chain a bit, really
But my point was serious: you said people choose hell -- I don't think most people would choose hell if they believed in it (and, in the world, if you count Muslims, there are millions and millions of people who do believe in it, after all...)
Then He may as well have created robots with no soul or spirit.
When we go to vote in an election, we have the freedom to choose who we vote for. God gives us that freedom also. He will not impose His will upon your freedom to choose.
What? I don't understand at all. I mean, couldn't we have the whole theology in tact, except hell, and that the punishment for some people is simply, I don't know, that their soul loses consciousness for eternity. Why not? In other words, you choose the consequences of your actions, fine, but to go to an eternal punishment that you feel... it's too nasty. I mean, maybe Hitler could get that, or Dick Cheney ( ), but why should my eighteen year old have to suffer for eternity, no, no, no, that is not a "God is Love" idea -- it is a CONTRADICTION of that idea...
Well, is it truth you are after? If you want truth, then you must accept God completely. If you want the opinions of men, then you will get them.
Everyone has their own opinions. Do those opinions line up with God? That question is of the utmnost importance.
Edited: If truth isn't what you want, then I may as well leave this thread.
Sir Dent , you don't know god and don't have the answers or know the truth.
Wasn't Jesus a man and god? Dont you believe Jesus when he says the kingdom of god is within and I tell ye you are all gods?
Same philosophy in Hinduism but I guess you will only relate with Christianity.
LOL. One question for you. Did God ask your permission to create?
I am god, I am the Light. All is god. Wake up to your real self and then preach.
You earlier called me the son of a devil and now my work is ranked with the Bible, Guess Jesus father was a devil as well.
I figured someone who blows his own horn as much as you would at least be able to answer such a simple question that I asked. You can call yourself whatever you want. Makes no difference to me at all. But why stand in the way of others who want real truth?
You don't have any answers. are you saying Jesus was a lair, since I am saying the same thing ? People like you killed Jesus and will kill him again when he returns.
Hey neither of you know, because you weren't there. I mean, a lot of what Jesus is reported as saying (and doing) makes a lot of sense, but how can you know for sure that some of what is in the Gospels was not put there by someone else? I mean, if there's a Devil, isn't that exactly the sort of thing he might do, for example....
This is turning around to what I am currently working on. I can know because of the evidence. Many believe faith to be blind, but faith is based on evidence. I will not reply any further on this aspect so as not to give away what I am writing about.
Jesus told the disciples that when the Holy Ghost came upon them, He would bring to their remembrance all that He had taught them. He didn't say some of it or parts of it. The word He used was "ALL."
We may not agree on everything (ha!), but at least we can both agree that evidence is very important, in general, in many, many aspects of life.
And I assume you are not against my insistence on things jibing with common sense and logic too, in general, either
It doesn't matter if we agree with one another or not. The main thing is if we agree with God. Common sense tells you that there was a creator. You can see this simply by looking at life.
Mmmmm, maybe. At least I like the idea of deciding this based on common sense, rather than, as you phrase it, "blind faith." (And of course, you are deciding based on some kind of evidence, also, in this case).
Personally, I think a whole lot of hot air is being blown about by the whole Creation vs Evolution debate. In other words, I think that if there is a God, then there is, irrespective of how the universe unfolded. If there isn't there isn't.
For example, if somehow, Evolution "won" (I don't think it will ever convince a lot of people, but let's just suppose), it *still* doesn't mean there's no God, because God, I presume, is not meant to be part of the physical/biological world in any case, but outside/above it. And an evolutionist who says there is definitely no God is a fool (actually a lot of Evolutionists do believe in God, so there you are...).
Anyway, I didn't want to open that can of worms. I just mean that if a person "experiences" God then that is a kind of evidence, in my book. Never mind about who created what; if someone, as I say, has that *experience* then he does; that experience is "real." Period, frankly.
So, that, to me, is quite good evidence. Clearly millions of people have that experience. No scientist worthy of the name should sniff at that (and many of them don't, in fact, but are believers of some sort).
But it is theoretically possible, I suppose, on the other hand, that there is no God....
Well, if you look at life, (and I mean all life), can you see that it was designed? Evolutionists, (from what I understand), believe it just came to be without any help of any kind. Of course they are not concerned about how the Earth was created/formed either.
I would like to conintue this convo, but I will save it for my hub. It is late here also. Mohit will keep you company I am sure.
I am not calling Jesus the "LIAR."
You have written about how enlightened you se since you came here. You constanly write about how you are god also. Now just answer the question I asked before.
Did God ask your permission to create?
I am enlightened , I do know god, while you don't.
"The kingdom of god is within" " I tell ye you are all gods" Jesus
but when I say man is god you say its a lie so Jesus lied as well.
I said I am god the Light so who should I be asking or god be asking.
Like I have just written god is omnipresent is something all prophets and religions say . All is god and Jesus tried to awaken man to the god in him.
LOL. Keep blowing your horn Mohit. Maybe you will blow hard enough to pass out.
Why don't you go and read the whole part where Jesus spoke that.
Stop spreading false knowledge, its irritating.
Jesus is within me I understand him lot better than you do.
You make it sound like its something bad to be ranked with the Bible and I should not mention it to anyone.
"The kingdom of god is within" " I tell ye you are all gods" Jesus
Did Jesus say the above or didn't he?
Read the whole convo Mohit.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
So if the kingdom of god is within man isn't god in man?
What is the meaning of god being omnipresent?
The truth is is you don't now god , reading the Bible is a good start, it is meant to inspire man to find god by meditating."When thy eye be single".
All prophets come to awaken man in the god in them, their source and home.
Ohhhh, that headache's coming on again...
How do you know he doesn't know god/God? Leave him alone!
No, don't leave, it's fun. And actually I think it's important to debate with people who disagree (it helps me, at least, get clear about what I think; and sometimes it makes me reconsider things...).
Naturally, I am more interested in "truth" than I am in believing something that isn't true (though in some cases, I don't know if it's possible to get certainty.)
I am happy to listen to "the opinions of men" but it doesn't mean I will accept them. (I hope that should be obvious).
It is the opinion of atheists that there definitely is no God.
I reject this. Why? Because it is LOGICALLY impossible for some guy walking around on this planet to have looked in every bit of the universe and declared: ok, I found no-one. It is also LOGICALLY impossible for some guy to claim he knows there is no spiritual dimension; how can he know there isn't one: it's like saying there's no China because I have never experienced it... he cannot know for sure. It is therefore ILLOGICAL for him to categorically deny its existence.
So, things have to MAKE SENSE for me. Otherwise, I might as well jump off a building because I've always wanted to fly...
And it is NOT LOGICAL that a completely, 100% Loving/Compassionate/Merciful God would permit a normal everyday person to be punished for his wrongdoings for *eternity* -- it is just too long to be merciful, loving, or compassionate: it is not LOGICAL, God's nature could not allow it if "He is Love"
One thing I forgot to write in my previous post. Your sins are forgiven. All sins were forgiven at the cross when Jesus gave up the ghost. Being forgiven isn't enough. One must believe in Jesus and follow Him.
I didn't want to edit my previous post to add this.
Check your theology there, my man. Pretty sure that's not right. You follow Jesus because you are transformed, his nature transforms you when you accept him; you are not *required* to follow him, that is not a *requirement* for salvation; you *want* to because of your new nature (I am not what you yourself would define as a Christian, as you might be able to tell; I don't believe much of the Bible, for example, but I think I know my onions on this point, all the same....)
Joh 3:16 "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but have eternal life.
This doesn't say anything about being forgiven.
Well, I'm confused -- what on earth is the point of the religion then. That's far and away its greatest appeal to me; you're going to lose me if you're not careful (I'm trying not to sound sarcastic -- it really does appeal to me; if there is a God willing to forgive my past bad deeds, I like this idea very much, I have to say; so don't take it away from me, or I'll never be back in church, because hell, for me, is not a good enough reason; I might as well be a Muslim, in that case (not that I know too much about that faith, but, well, I'm just saying...)
Teaching them they are no different than monkeys etc. . . No wonder so may act like monkeys.
What sort of powerful entity would be such a winger and threaten to destroy people for not worshiping it?
Answer? A psychotic one!
Yeah, I mean, I suspect he's getting a bad rap, frankly. I'm sure his main concern (I mean, I think one could argue that Christian theology focuses on this) is forgiving humankind, and getting people to "enter into a transformative relationship". That is all fine for me, as a reasonable possibility. But, come on, if you're going to threaten me, well, there are plenty of other religions I can go to...
Your question should have been, "What sort of God would pour Himself into the body of a man and die as a man so that I might gain life?"
You know in your heart that it is your choice not to believe.
But I could believe this, in theory, at least. That's just the point! An all-merciful God might do *exactly* something like that. This hell thing is too brutal.
God is within man, man is god, he is making the decision. I am going home to god when I die and not hell.
Man is not god. Man thinks he is god but is not. only God is God.
And neither is anyone else (except, perhaps, Richard Perle )
God is home for all and eventually all souls or everyone will go back home to god the source.
So you are saying you only believe in one part of God?
Hey Earnest! Having fun yet? I don't normally jump in these kinds of threads, but....
Will you go to hell for even asking or thinking that children can be condemned to hell? Are they not the innocent?
Have more fun Earnest!
*leaving this thread for good*
I used to teach full-time.
If there is a God then boys and girls WILL go to Hell . . . or at least be sent there for a nice. long "timeout".
I am also an ordained minister. As an ordained minister I will tell you that some religions believe that if your children are not baptized they will go to Hell.
I wasn't actually talking about religions nor a denomination in religions. God is not about denominations. God is a God of people. Denominations don't mean anything, but what is taught is what is important. The Word of God speaks for itself without any help from me or anyone else.
GOOD NIGHT EVERYONE!!!
And now a word from our sponsors.
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
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