Why would any christian church provide a Certificate of Baptism for a person bap

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   graceinusposted 11 years ago

   Why would any christian church provide a Certificate of Baptism for a person baptized?
   
   What is the purpose for any any christian denomination to provide a certificate of baptism? Is this suppose to show some kind of proof?  Does true baptism require some kind of writen proof?

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   Motown2Chitownposted 11 years ago

   There are denominations of Christianity that require baptism for membership and future access to other sacraments.  The Roman Catholic Church is one example.  I will forever be a member of the Catholic Church due to my baptism.  This allows me to participate fully in the remaining six sacraments of the Church.
   
   Not all Christian denominations require this, and many accept any baptism from any other denomination.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Motowo2Chitown- Your baptism is a step in your relationship with God. Your baptism should  not to be used like some kind of membership card for a Church.

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      PlanksandNailsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The masses around the world unknowingly worship Satan by bowing to a statue of Mary, or the Pope. The clergy convieniently avoid Scripture that exposes their promotion of idolatry. The certificate is simply about man-made perks and entitlements.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      according to scripture all denominations are man made  abominations.   the catholics started it and the rest followed.   Any time a man takes the place of Christ, then Christ stays away and leaves them to their own devices.

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      Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I was answering the question you asked.  I'm quite comfortable in my relationship with Christ.  It wouldn't matter if my baptismal certificate were shredded or burned, it wouldn't change anything for me.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Motown2Chitown- I am very happy to know you are baptized. I do thank you for you answer.

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   celafoeposted 11 years ago

   Several.   The first is it is a church run by man,usurping the place of the Holy Spirit so thet they do not have the ability to hear from the Holy Spirit.   Second is control, since it is a man made doctrine it follows that as all man made doctrines the basis  is control of the people.    If you control the evidence, ( in their minds) of a persons conversion, then you can control the person.  Third, ego, it makes them feel good to be in control of who has a certificate and it looks good to  be able to show the fruit of their "ministry" to their friends with whom they are competing for members..    (look i have signed 1250 certificates of baptism, i am so good)
   And there are many more reasons, all of which have NO scriptural validity.    God Knows who belongs to Him, He does not need to see your man made paper.   In fact it might even get you disqualified instead of being accepted.

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      PlanksandNailsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Certificates make a mockery of God by man recieving accolades by recieving a man-made certificate upon a man-made altar in a man-made building from a man-made salaried clergy member for a work that is solely done by Jesus Christ.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I strongly agree with both of you. Many thanks for you answer celafoe. And Thanks for your comment PandN.

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   Ericdierkerposted 11 years ago

   Grace in us, this is an awesome trick question. Of course there is purpose behind this ludicrous practice. There was purpose to crucifying Christ. There is purpose to the holocaust.
   Here is a great tool -- talk about the concept of Baptism, but do not use the word. That word has become something different than what John taught, but the notion has not changed. Not only do churches have certificates, some folks go around saying exactly how it must be done -- like full emersion versus pouring or if it can be inside or must be outside, whether the water must be moving and if you can use salt water. What human concerns these are but they all have purpose and agenda behind them.
   Here is a crazy one, my 3 year old is already baptized twice. Once in a church with a priest and once in a stream in the wilderness with only family and me. It is an awesome ritual. Jesus did it and it made his dad real happy. From all accounts Paul and John the Baptist were not ritualistically baptized.
   If you saw the movie "Forest Gump" I think the storm and Captain Dan is a beautiful baptizm and life a new.
   
   Wouldn't it be funny if a gal all filled with the Spirit and loving and radiant in peace and grace and without blemish, volunteered to teach children in a "Sunday School" and the Vicar and the Vestry denied her for she had no certificate.
   
   On the other hand God knows all his children and every hair from alpha to omega, but does man? I think not. They used to "brand" slaves with a hot iron, all the way back to Moses and before. Perhaps it is fun/OK for those not blessed with discernment to see a certificate. Yes it is weird and yes it makes no spiritual sense. But perhaps it helps the blind to see. Remember that numb skull Thomas "hey man I got to touch to believe it". And yet it seemed Christ loved him more for his weakness and his need. So shall and must we be; those that need a certificate, need our love even more.
   
   I just designed and a certificate. And it really made me laugh. What in the heck do you put on it. "has been duly initiated" "has been dunked" "is hereby,,,,," "has duly sworn" ??
   
   People are funny. I reckon we should let them do as they will and argue against them by our love.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric-I greatly welcome your answer and thank you. I believe a person's water baptism is an important and private matter between a person  baptized and God.  Certificate of baptism from any church, to me, cheapens the value and purpose of the baptism.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Call it intuitive, but I think you may want to calibrate that idea that what others do cheapens you. Would not that mean you are reliant on others rather than God. Grace, "example" is what gives us value to the Lord or cheapens ourselves to Him.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Eric- Thanks again. Allow me to put it this way. The moment Jesus was baptized. What do you think Jesus would have said if John tried to hand Jesus a Certificate of Baptism. Think about it Eric. God Bless.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I do not know for sure what He would have done --- but I know what He would never have done,,,, condemn John for it!!  Think about it.  That is my point here. It does no harm to God.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      He probably would have said , as he did on another occasion, "get behind me satan".   He would definitely not approve of this fleshly act of usurping His authority.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Like I said, He would not condemn John for it. And your point is well taken. Perhaps that would be for Christ to do --- but not for you.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      He said these things (that He did) and greater shall we do.   So then why would it be wrong for me to do the same as He?   He gave us the right to use His name  and His ways.  And by His stripes we are to be healed.  Why would this be different?

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I suppose Celafoe, that you can make a biblical case for going around condemning people. Westboro comes to mind, as do some preachers. But I must tell you, it does not sit well with me. And folks like me have to worry about the damage it causes.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      cheap shot Eric, you have a  problem with semantics. condemning ACTIONS does not equate to condemning people.  We are required to condemn wrong actions. I did not say anything about condemning the person.just as He condemned Peter's action not Peter.

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       graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Let get back on subject. Baptism is a part of our religionship with God. I don't see any benifit by certifying it on paper. And it's not biblical. And yet it is common amoung most churches and to what end.

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   jlparkposted 11 years ago

   Some religious schools require proof of baptism or christening. A friend of mine has to have a certificate for each of her eight children so that they can attend the Catholic school they all (bar the baby) go to.
   
   I doubt that in this case it's trying to put an accolade or anything on it - it's just the simplest way of keeping an accessible record of baptism for things like schooling.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      jlpark- I have to agree with you on this case that it is not a matter of accolade, but it is a matter of that church maintaining it's control. Thanks for your answer.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      of course the certificate has no value.   It says they were baptized, but most that are baptized by the  apostate churches do it for show, it does not prove a heart change.   It is not proof of Being actually born again.   therefore useless.

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