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that you see someone eating pork doesn't mean that , he or she doesn't believe in old testament , see what the bible says about the issue of eating of forbidden animals : Act 10:9 On the next day, as these went on the road, and drawing near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour.
Act 10:10 And he became very hungry and desired to eat. But while they made ready, an ecstasy fell on him.
Act 10:11 And he saw the heaven opened and a certain vessel like a sheet coming down to him, being bound at the four corners and let down to the earth;
Act 10:12 in which were all the four-footed animals of the earth, and the wild beasts, and the reptiles, and the birds of the heaven.
Act 10:13 And a voice came to him, saying, Rise, Peter! Kill and eat!
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spoke to him again the second time, What God has made clean, you do not call common.
Never said I do beleieve in teh old tstament and I dont eat pork either
In the old Testament the people were under the law.
the things in the old testament do not apply except as an example to us now of the concequences of our disobedience to Gods Word.
with the crucifiction of Jesus we are now under grace.
And I might add that All of the old testament is valid not just parts and that includes the rest of the Bible. All can be believed.
I don't believe in talking snakes, sorry.
theres a scripture that talks about GOD creating evrything to eat and not to call it unclean and to go ahead and eat it besides what does not eating a certain type of food, have to do with having a relationship with your all mighty savior JESUS christ not eating a certain type of food sounds like a do and dont type of thing,we live under grace through christ jesus.
And how do you determine which bits in the Old Testament to take seriously and which not?
There is scripture that indicates that God cleared all foods to eat(NT). But immediatly there after the Jews are informed to accept the gentiles as equal. So, while I do not fully understand if the vision was to clear meats and/or gentiles, the health message posted by a prophet suggests that many foods are not good for the body.
Science confirms that.
God took the effort to show the bits that need reinforcing by covering them again in the new covenant.
Christ came to fulfil the law, not abolish it, however He successfully demonstrated that the purpose of the Torah Mosaic law was to show mankind and specifically the Jews that it was impossible to keep, and that failure in one law meant failure in all law.
That's why Christ came to offer a new covenant, no longer based upon to old covenant laws.
Hmm, Ok, it wasn't on CNN nor NBC News, did I miss something? The last I heard was that the bible was rewritten numerous times, often by people in power (King James?) to suit their own needs. Not arguing your beliefs, but I cannot accept what you wrote, nor what is written in the bible as proof.
Common practice is that those "bits" that speak specifically to jewish law, no longer apply. To throw out the biblical principle contained in the old testament wholesale would be like saying that christianity was not born of the jewish faith.
Because like Elliot, I am a believer in the new covenant, which specifically states:
Acts 15 24:29
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” - to whom we gave no such commandment - it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.
If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
Nothing else was reiterated from the Mosaic and Torah laws.
This is a pretty feakin' comprehensive answer, if you'll pardon my French.
Is there anywhere that instructs what narratives may or may not be taken seriously? In other words, seeing as it is clear that Christians do not need to follow every single part of the Old Testament, how do you know whether the "story" sections are all to be taken literally too?
Acts 11...it explains the removal of dietary restrictions.....
Mmmm... that wasn't really my question though
What is your question? Are you really asking a rhetorical question? You asked about eating pork....First pork isn't the only dietary restriction mentioned in the "Torah" or the old testament itself. Clearly the book of Acts removes all restrictions on what and what can't be eaten. You seem to imply that if you eat pork you have to ignore the ten commandments.....Is that what your getting at? If thats the case why not ask how to Jews atone for sin since there are no longer blood sacrifices?
There are lots of theological questions that can be asked, but to what end? For what purpose? Will needling anything and everything to death achieve something for you? Many christians and athiest seem so eager to become entrenched in a theological debate. By today's standards I'm not what folks would call a "christian". However I do believe in "biblical principal". You know, the ten commandments, proverbs, etc. I think most would find there lives in much better shape if they simply practiced those principles. The rest is just a bunch of window dressing...
What about what was said right before that? Kind of changes the whole point:
19“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
That makes it say that they didn't want to throw everything at them at once, they would hear more every sabbath. It wasn't that they needed these things to be accepted by God, these were just the instructions from God on how human life was best lived.
Good point TMinut, and yes, just because all things are permitted does not mean all things are advisable, however anything eaten with a clear conscience is acceptable to God, the point being that many if not most people listen to the diet gestapo that tell us daily what can or cannot be eaten, what is or is not good for us.
My rule is that if I am not with a clear conscience about partaking in something, don't, not because the food would hurt me, but because eating when I believed it to be wrong or sinful would hurt me.
The 4 laws that James were not the only laws to keep. Those laws were given as initial laws to aquaint the new converts to Biblical Judaism. One cannot possibly cram the word of Yah down the throats of these new converts. It would scare them.
This is why James said in verse 21 that Moses has in every city, someone that teaches the law. What does this mean? It means that eventually, the new converts will learn all the law so that they could keep it.
To say that these are the only 4 laws to keep for new converts is blasphemous, because this excludes hundreds of other laws, such as honoring your parents, and coveting your fellow man's possessions. Those laws are absent, and so is it ok to dishonor our parents, and covet our fellow man's possessions?
When bringing someone to a new faith, you do not simply give them a 600 page book and say,"You have 5 minutes to read all 600 pages." You will tell them to read 1-3 pages, so that they could learn piece by piece. Basically, this was what James was doing. Give them 4 laws to start off with, and then eventually, they will learn all the law every Sabbath.
Like with any piece of literature religious or not the whole has to be taken. The Old Testament cannot be looked at alone and neither can the New Testament. There is nothing wrong in abstaining from meat if you are called to do so. The Jews were called. But once other nationalities came into the picture it was accepted that they did not have to become Jew to be part of the following of Christ. Therefore, the rule of no pork and other such laws did not apply to them because in the end it is not a matter that determines salvation.
well said. Jesus taught that it's not what goes into the body that defiles a man but what comes out of his mouth. In the New Covenant, the Jews are no longer the chosen people of God, rather the Church, consisting of Jews and Gentiles, forms his family. These are those who have been saved according to his purpose, by faith, not works so that no man can boast. Dietary regulations are not and never have been the emphasis - the goal, in both the New and Old Testaments is a saving relationship with God through faith.
yummm...pork.. dang it I haven't eaten yet either. thanks Adsenses for making me hungry! Oh and you should know my views about the bible...or I think you do....
Look up Peter's Vision.
that is where the confusion starts.
Why do I feel many questions are asked with no intent on learning?
Unless the live pig has received De worming medication; I would not butcher or eat it. I believe that these parasites that all pigs carry was the reason that they were originally forbidden. The ban on pork was a commandment to the Hebrew people that was lifted in the New testament when the Gentiles were included into the faith.
I do not believe that Gentiles should try to uphold Jewish law.
Messianic Jews believe in Christ and probably uphold Jewish law at the same time. On the flip side of that, Christians try to act like Jews. They cannot be as it is a birth right. Jesus rebuked traditions of man. Not law.
Sunday worship is a great example of a tradition of man.
Sure you can become a Jew without being born one. Christians are Christians because they believe in the dogma of Christianity and there are many, many differences between the beliefs of Christians and Jews. Jews do not believe, for instance, that Jesus died for anyone's sins (something called vicarious atonement).
And Messianic Jews are not Jews - they are Christians who adopt some Jewish practices.
I thought Messianic Jews were usually born Jewish, and "accept Jesus", as the expression goes.
Those are "Jews for Jesus."
I don't believe even a majority of "Messianic Jews" were born Jews.
Gotcha (as in "I capiche"). I thought they were the same thing: it's been a very long time since I've thought about these things.
"And Messianic Jews are not Jews - they are Christians who adopt some Jewish practices."
you will find its origins as a Christ accepting Orthodox Jewish movement. The Christian sect came later- under the same name. A Jew is born a Jew - sorry.
That whole thing is tied up with the confusion around: Jew a race, ethnic group or a religion?......Many non-jews, ethnically/racially speaking do convert to judaism....Even within the jewish religion there are differences.
I understand. but that is a birth right. there is no indication otherwise. Gentile or Jew.
Well, you know what Golda Meir said:
"How can we be the Chosen People when God led us to the only place in the Middle-East without any oil?"
Tell that to Ruth.
Funny how Christians can pretend to be experts on Judaism.
I guess people don't know how to study any longer. 4 people have now told you what a true Messianic Jew is.
Messianic = Messiah believing
Jew = Jew
Its even in the name you silly giggle boxes.
I dont eat pork, then again I dont eat any meat at all. There is no reason to eat meat, there will not be meat in heaven to eat so why eat it down here.
We all eat meat if we shop at the supermarket. Meat products are used in so many foods, how the hell would you know if it had meat products in it?
Altoids...the mints...has beef in them, at least it used too.
Maybe we need to ask the question: What was the purpose of the laws?
I once heard from an orthodox Jew that the law was given to keep God in every aspect of their lives. Before doing anything they would have to stop and think on it since it could be against the law.
To a Christian the law would not have to be the point of stopping to see if it was sinful. The Holy Spirit would fulfill that. That was the way Jesus came to fulfill the law instead of abolishing it.
Also: a Messianic Jew is not a Christian pretending to be a Jew. They are Jews who have accepted Christ as their Messiah while still practicing their traditions.
That is, broadly speaking, the same understanding that non-orthodox Jews have, even among those who don't adhere to all 613 mitzvot (commandments). Actions matter to Jews more than beliefs, so anything that can make you think about your actions before taking them is a good idea.
To answer your question, I eat pork because I also believe in the New Testament. God told Peter it was okay to eat the flesh of all creatures, but not to eat the blood. I guess I sin when I eat a rare steak.
Some non-Jewish people fail to realize other foods that were restricted by the Old Testament: shrimp, clams, lobster, catfish, oysters, mussels, scallops, camels, badgers, and hares.
Yeah, I don't think I need God to tell me to avoid eating a badger!
I had several times had pork. It is yummy and full of fat
Hi, Charlie! Everyone sins - some more than others! I hope there are BBQ ribs in Heaven!
Hey Habee. Yeah and pecan pie with vanilla ice cream as well. Jesus said nothing that enters the mouth can defile a man. It is what comes out of his mouth that does that.
Do you all realize that there is truth to what eating pork is and it really has nothing to do with religion. Waaaaaay back then they didn't have the kinds of things that we have today and it was very dangerous to eat such thing. Pork is very bad for dogs or cats, why--go look it up and see why. Now for people there are certain worms and other things that if not cooke properly can be tranferred to the human body. We know how to cooke these things NOW, but they didn't have all that back THEN.
I could never understand how eating certain foods could be "sinful". It only made sense when one understood sanitation and health issues; perhaps that doesn't apply here and now. But those people were still told to avoid food offered to idols so that brings the spiritual part of the issue back in.
The passage in Acts was odd, it clearly stated that it had nothing to do with food, it had to do with Gentiles being made clean by God. Peter didn't eat any of the animals (in his vision). There is a passage that says all things are made clean for you, isn't there? I think that's after God said we don't get to have such long lives so he told us to eat all the things that will cut our lives short.
GG, do you eat meat at all? Is it only pork? Are there really health reasons not to eat pork especially? Too many rumors about what is healthy and what isn't and why. I generally don't like meat at all so it doesn't bother me much.
Well, yes, but aren't there diseases specific to other animals that should take them off the list as well? Naturally I mean, not like things we've caused like feeding vegetarian animals ground up bodies of their own kind.
Pork is by no means the only prohibited meat according to Kosher rules, just the most well-known. Shellfish, rabbit, camel, among others, are also forbidden.
Here is the relevant verse that covers the aspect:
1 Timothy 4.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
The red bits are the relevant parts, obviously if you don't believe in God, then follow the dietary rules...
Love a good ribeye steak , just not too into pork
Rib eye steak brings out the Homer in me. The Homer Simpson that is!
You say that only because you have never tasted my smoked pork steak (smoked with pecan). Smoked for 30 minutes on the ol smoker then grilled for 2 minutes each side over hickory flame kissed.
there is a kabbalistic saying, 'in the time of the messiah, the tools of judaism will no longer be necessary'. I believe we are living in the time of the messiah.
The problem is not the animal!!!
Not to eat everything that has 3 nails
Aquasilver, you quoted:
and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
But we're discussing the ones God DIDN'T create to be received, at least he said he didn't. Seems like Paul said an awful lot of things that God and Jesus didn't.
Have you ever had a smoked pizza. It's good yum
I love my smoker. Smoked brussle sprouts caulyflower with corn on the cob are to die for.
Believe it or not the brussel sprouts are my favorite.
Tell me about your smoker.
One more little sidetrack bit, you guys - is "smoker" the official name for what you're talking about? If I look that up, will I find the appliance/grill/whatever it is? Sounds useful.
If you are talking about smokin vegies, a smoker is kinda like a grill. a big box to build a fire in. has a grill over the fire and a lid over the grill. but that isn't where ya smoke your food. The fire box is attached to another section. the heat and smoke flows through cooking for hours and hours at about 300 degrees a pot roast will fall apart or a spare rib falls of of the bone. Yum Maybe I should write a hub about makin meat fall of of the bone.
Okay about the meat but remember to talk about how to make veggies and other foods come out deliciously tasty too! Gives that campfire taste I assume? Like hobo dinners at scout camp? Or anything cooked in a campfire, guess I'm a cave girl at heart!
Old Testament, New Testament.....Old Covenant, New Covenant..... none of that matters a lick since Mosaic dietary laws only applied to the Hebrews/Jews, not the rest of us.
Getting back on track to the question: Acts 10:9-15 (NASB), "On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, 'Get up, Peter, kill and eat!' But Peter said, 'By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.' Again a voice came to him a second time, 'What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.'"
I think it's pretty obvious.
TMinut Okay about the meat but remember to talk about how to make veggies and other foods come out deliciously tasty too! Gives that campfire taste I assume? Like hobo dinners at scout camp? Or anything cooked in a campfire, guess I'm a cave girl at heart!
Sorry took so long. been on the phone with family.
I bet you would like cooking with fire. Seems like everyone I know around here (Houston tx area)has a smoker. You can Cook anything that ya like eatin in it. Sometimes I just build a fire in it so I can think that I have an outdoor fireplace.
If you do get one I recomend gettin one with a big firebox.
My neighbor calls it his hot box. Big is good. You can put bigger logs in it and cook all day.
I don't eat pork...then again there's alot of meat I don't eat either....I'm more of a sea foody
Yes, we can keep "all those laws." Why would Yah give them a law they could never keep? In Deut 30:11, Yah clearly says that the Torah is not far off or hard to keep. 1 John 5:3 says that the Torah is not a burden. Making the Torah such is the result of man's evil ways, and unwillingness to learn about the Torah.
Did God not say that no one has kept all of the laws?
The ten commandments in and of themselves are not hard to keep when kept in the simple context. Love the Lord God with all of our heart. And Love thy neighbor as thyself.
But when they are expanded as man interpretates them they become difficult.
If You Believe in the Old Testament How Come You Eat Pork?
Cuz I'm a friking sinner!
I do it but; cause Mom taught me how to like when I was a kid.
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