What if God does not exist?

1. 71

   stanwshuraposted 10 years ago

   What if God does not exist?
   
   What if there is no God.  What if he was the invention of humanity trying to control humanity.  What if God is to people what Santa Claus is to kids - somebody not to piss off because you just wanna get your loot (or place in "Heaven") in the end.

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2. 71

   dashingscorpioposted 10 years ago

   I believe God made man and man made religion. :-)
   My guess is we'll learn the truth after we die or transition. I was raised in the Christian faith however I begin to have "questions" about the legitimacy of some stories. Adam lived to be 930 years old, Samson killed 1000 men with just the jawbone of a donkey. (Did they come at him one at a time? Did he take any breaks?).
   Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, (and this was before the invention of Viagra!), and then there is the whole bible "canonization process" where a group of men decided which books to "include" in the Holy Bible and which ones to "exclude"  I find that to be very fascinating. If a group disagreed they simply created their own denomination. There can only be one truth.
   I believe there were (religious leaders) back then just as we have today who were mainly out to control large groups of people. I suppose if it turned out that it was the disciples who moved the stone along with Jesus' body and made up promises of his return to keep the believers faithful.... that would be the biggest scandal, "cover up" or scam of all time!
   As I said I do believe in God or superior spiritual intelligence based upon things I have witnessed in my own life. However I'm not certain that man got everything right during the "dictation process" of writing the bible. :-)

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   1. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The Bible is a mixture of symbols, parables, history, poetry and even humor etc! If we take a symbol literally we miss the meaning.

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   2. 71

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Oztinato, you make an excellent point. Unfortunately most "believers" see the bible as being completely literal. From their point of view it's (the) "historical document" of the beginning and future ending of mankind.

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   3. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      They do this like children might. It only becomes harmful when it leads to bigotry.

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   4. 74

      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      D, you might be pleasantly surprised to know that the scribes got a lot right. There's a biblical timeline compatible with those of science.
      
      Rod Martin, Jr.
      author of
      "The Bible's Hidden Wisdom: God's Reason for Noah's Flood"

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3. 0

   Sri Tposted 10 years ago

   It depends on what word you choose. If you say nature, there is no denying that. If you say life force or energy, that is a given. If you say consciousness, mind or the thought process, few would deny that. A powerful, creative energy is obviously creating things and we apparently have access to that power. The problem is in the philosophy. No one can really say what that power thinks or why it is doing all these things. So religion steps in to explain it. But men create religions so they still don't really know the motives of the power. The power is here, that is certain. What that power is, nobody knows. They can only tell you what they heard from others.

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4. 60

   jstfishinmanposted 10 years ago

   If God does not exist, then as a Christian, I have lived a good life and I die. I have lost nothing. The moral standards I have lived by, has made the world a better place and helped prevent a chaotic society with no rules and no authority.
   The consequences of believing in God and dieing, when there is no God, is just dieing.
   The consequences of not believing in God and dieing,, when there is a God, is eternal torture.
   Believing in God has always been the choice with the best of outcomes, as far as I'm concerned.

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   1. 0

      sheilamyersposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I totally agree with you.

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   2. 83

      M. T. Dremerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If God was real, wouldn't he dislike such a choice? Wouldn't he want true believers rather than people who chose to believe because it was more attractive than not believing?

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   3. 60

      jstfishinmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That is not the reason I believe, but for many it is a good starting point. When people can logically look at the pros and cons, and get away from our pre-conceived prejudices. It is just a chance to look at a bigger picture of life and after life.

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   4. 83

      M. T. Dremerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Even as a starting point, I feel like the modern portrayal of god would dislike someone who chose theism on the off chance it was right. It is my understanding that religious gospel is supposed to be a model to live by, not insurance for the soul.

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   5. 56

      RichardLionHeartposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If God did not exist there would be no life. We would not exist because this material world and universe would not be as matter cannot create or produce itself. Like as Paul said if there is not resurrection, we are of all men to be most pitied

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   6. 74

      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      MT, believing in God is shallow. Knowing even a piece of God is profound. Knowing is transcendent, like walking on water or moving mountains in an instant. I have seen miracles this powerful. But depending on miracles to believe is upside down

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5. 100

   chef-de-jourposted 10 years ago

   Life will go on as before. Life is life in all its beautiful, dreadful manifestations, with or without any god or gods or goddesses!

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6. 74

   Oztinatoposted 10 years ago

   For the atheists out there:
   try reading Kurt Godel's "God theorem" about the math proof for God! And before you put your foot into your mouth you better have a look at both,
   1.Stephen Hawking's comments about Godel in his free online essay "Godel and the End of Of Physics" (!)
   2. Einstein's comments about Godel in the latter years of Einstein's life (he was only interested in talking to Godel and more or less bequeathed Godel his mantel).
   If you "believe in science" it would be hypocritical not to believe in math.

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   1. 83

      M. T. Dremerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It would be inaccurate to say his theory is math proof for god. It's complicated philosophical analysis, far distant from what the bible would have us believe.

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   2. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The definition of God according to Godel (ie Perfect) has the same repercussions as a believer without higher math might perceive. Other physics dimensions now can be seen as potential "other realms" etc.

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   3. 83

      M. T. Dremerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      But it's still a philosophical 'what if', not concrete evidence that can be tested, measured and recorded. If such an equation were enough, anything could be proven to exist.

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   4. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      String theory is a "what if" theory but everyone takes that very seriously.

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   5. 83

      M. T. Dremerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      String theory is an attempt to explain a part of the visible universe. Godel's theory is an attempt to justify a dated superstition.

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   6. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If you were a maths great equivalent to Hawking or Einstein you have a right to can Godel: both these maths greats pay him the highest respect.

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   7. 83

      M. T. Dremerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not disrespecting Godel, I'm saying that if the bible was never written, his theory wouldn't exist. Where as string theory would because it is derived from the observable universe.

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   8. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That can't be true as there are many other religions to draw from. Many prominent scientists studied the Ancient Hindu scriptures too.

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7. 72

   manatita44posted 10 years ago

   Fair enough.
   
   Then we die like everyone else. Punto.
   
   What if God exists?
   
   Then you may chose to love, serve and find joy and fulfilment in seeing the Light in your brother and sister: mankind. Do this, and you will fill a profound sense of gratitude which you will carry with you to the grave as a rich reward, even if it turns out that God does not exists after all. Joy and peace.

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   1. 74

      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      And, of course, God exists. God is love. Because of it, Noah's Flood was an act of love. Only someone of the spirit can understand this. Blessings.

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8. 83

   M. T. Dremerposted 10 years ago

   Science has progressed to a place were we no longer need god as a placeholder. Yes, there are still gaps in science, but we have to think of it like a dinosaur skeleton. When we first started to discover them, we arranged them to look like humans, which usually resulted in weird monster-like giants. We were forcing them into our worldview of what they should look like. After more information was gathered, we started to get a more accurate picture of how dinosaurs were actually structured.
   
   It's no different for life and the universe. We may only have fragments of the whole, but we have enough now to start building the skeleton without forcing it into one particular shape. It's true that god can never be definitively disproven, but if discovery after discovery is made without him, it gets to a point where belief in him is unnecessary.

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   1. 56

      RichardLionHeartposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      God calls every one to repentance as Paul says in Acts 17 verse 30 because He  will judge the world in Righteousness by the man He has appointed. Of which He has given assurance He has provided proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.

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   2. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I advise you to read Stephen Hawkings free online essay "Godel and the End of Physics" which outlines the impossibility of science getting all the answers.

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   3. 71

      stanwshuraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      But what scientific *proof* exists that some man named Jesus Christ rose from the dead some 2014 years ago?   Was His grave under 24 hour watch?  Did some image of Him reappear on that 3rd day and preach to a jaw-dropped assemblage of sane witnesses?

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   4. 0

      Sri Tposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Science can deny the word God, but they cannot deny the power in nature. They are a part of it. Can they deny themselves? There is a power creating us and everything that is unseen. So what do they want to call it today? LOL

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   5. 74

      Oztinatoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There is a lot of written anecdotal evidence and also historical evidence that a remarkable event occurred in the Ancient Roman Empire; that same event eventually conquering the Empire. Words limits here stop further info I could offer

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   6. 83

      M. T. Dremerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Science will never have all the answers in much the same way we will never find a perfectly preserved dinosaur. But that doesn't mean we can't paint a mostly accurate picture of dinosaurs based on the evidence. The same is true of the universe.

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9. 56

   RichardLionHeartposted 10 years ago

   If God is Not God and He didn't exist the simple answer is that there would be nothing! Psalm 14 says that 'The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."

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   1. 74

      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Pure wisdom. Like a blind man saying there is no color.

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10. 74

    lone77starposted 10 years ago

    If there were no God, then we would not be here. We would not have thought. There would be no energy, mass, space or time.
    
    The universe exists, therefore He IS.
    
    Certainly some myths have been created by humans to explain things or to control others. And even Truth has been co-opted by those who are evil in order to manipulate others. For instance, people who mention facts about 9/11 contrary to the "official" conspiracy theory are called nuts. Facts = craziness? Curious. Someone's hiding something.
    
    Anyone who asks a question like this, I immediately feel a sadness for. Why? Because they are so blinded by physical existence and ego that they do not see the spiritual. They are a bit like Helen Keller before her "miracle worker." They are merely action-reaction automatons.
    
    The physical is temporary. The spiritual is permanent. I can remember a time when the physical seemed solid and forever. Not any more.
    
    I have studied the sciences. I have seen the mistakes of the "creation scientists" and groaned at their clumsy inaccuracies. But I've also groaned at the literalism of the atheists; they remain clueless. And I've seen dozens of miracles -- the extraordinary, cause-and-effect coincidence kind.
    
    I remember one atheist saying that "miracles" are merely accidents observed by some lucky individual. Perhaps some "ordinary," accidental miracles fit this description, but walking on water could never be explained in science as any manner of accidents. This kind of miracle transcends physical law. And the only way to do that is to have access to the "control board" -- creation. This happens only through spirit, not the body, the brain or misfiring neurons.
    
    Some skeptics give skepticism a bad name. Michael Shermer is one of them. He jumps to unfounded conclusions all the time, betraying the purpose of skepticism. It's sad to see a grown man make such a fool of himself on such a regular basis and other "skeptics" cheer him on, like the Emperor with his invisible set of clothes.

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11. 60

    Penny Gposted 10 years ago

    Well lets say he doesn't and for the record I believe with all my heart he does, what have you got to loose by believing verses not believing? It's a win win situation by believing. If he doesn't then what is it that you've done that didn't create a good life for you and those around you?

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12. 0

    christiananrkistposted 10 years ago

    if God does not exist, then we live in a very sad world. that would mean all the heart ache, troubles, and disappointments, not to mention all the horrific evils in the wold are truly meaningless. it also makes all the good in the world and joys of our life meaningless. what good is any of it to just die and become slabs of meat in the ground? character building and honorable living are meaningless. science and advancing the human race is meaningless. suicide at an early age, cancer, living to be 120, all meaningless in the end. what good is it when we are all extinct? what good is it once you alone are gone? what a pointless meaningless wold we live in without God.

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