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When I first came to hub pages, I will admit that my relationship with God and Christ was less than it should have been, hence when I hit the forums I retaliated to the attacks I got, rather than respond.... hopefully I have leaned now and can respect that the atheists feel as strongly about their beliefs, or lack of it, as I do about mine.
But the attacks from the atheist cabal, and we all know who they are, actually made my faith stronger, so my topic question is to Christians of any flavor or strength....
Do atheists help build a Christians faith?
Cabal? Lack of belief? Seems like you are looking to be provocative.
I suppose my first question is how does it help you to feel persecuted? Does it reproduce a situation in your life that was significant?
Another question- is it easier for you to relate to others in an atmosphere of anger and recrimination. Is this familiar territory?
And one last question- why is it a struggle to stay blessed?
Not provocative whatsoever, because logically speaking this is one topic which ONLY applies to Christians, obviously no atheist will have their faith built by other atheists attacking Christianity... or maybe they would? .... anyhow, who knows, but the topic is specific for Christians to answer whether they find atheists attacks strengthen or weaken their faith.
No offense mean for atheists, but it's a sort of non question for them...
"Cabal? Lack of belief? Seems like you are looking to be provocative."
Not really, just stating what I observed, and we do have a 'cabal' operating here in the religious forums, from both sodes of the fence, for they communicate by email and some attacks seem very orchestrated.
"I suppose my first question is how does it help you to feel persecuted? Does it reproduce a situation in your life that was significant?"
No not at all, I don't feel persecuted, I feel vindicated and reassured that what the scriptures tell me will take place in the end days is being fulfilled.
"Another question- is it easier for you to relate to others in an atmosphere of anger and recrimination. Is this familiar territory?"
It was familiar territory for 41 years, then I discovered faith and gradually gained the fruits of the spirit, which made life sweeter eventually (for you go through long suffering before you reach joy).
When I came to Hubpages and the forums initially I was just out of dealing with the world again, and in reality had more in common with the atheists than the believers, I was in a crisis of faith, a dark night of the soul, and it really helped when I saw how the world treated people JUST for believing in Christ, it made me question whether I was truly a believer, and I came out realizing that having once been in filled with the Holy Spirit, it was impossible for me to turn away from what I knew to be true, so I owe a debt of thanks to all those who attacked me those first weeks, and drove me back into the loving arms of Christ.
Are we done?
Every faith, thought, belief, notion, idea, can help further ones faith. They just have to have the tools and smarts on how to apply it into their own feelings, way of living, and moral highgrounds.
This topic would make a very interesting hub.
I have a couple of hubs that nearly take it here, but this was one question I thought to ask whilst we are all alone, so to speak, where Christians can answer without mass attacks and ridicule in non related areas... but maybe a hub will come from it, by me or someone else?
I mean wouldn't it be hilarious if these atheists were simply driving believers further into faith in God?
Which I suspect is the case...
Well since I am already a fan of yours, I look forward to reading another great hub written by you.
The better question is do some Christians and their actions help strengthen atheists lack of faith?
Indeed a good question, and one which as a believer I cannot answer, I can recall that when I was an atheist that believers were inconsequential to me, so nothing they said mattered to me, indeed nothing anybody said mattered to me, for I was my own god and cared not a jot for anyone unless they were useful to me.
Besides which I'm not sure one can build a lack of faith, maybe they can make someone lose more belief in anything and increase their lack of belief in nothing?
Why not ask your question to atheists on a topic on their forum?
The question is do Christians who mis-represent christianity build anti-christian/anti religious feeling? I suggest tjhey do.
Yes, it can but one must be strong enough. It is easy to be swayed by the cold "facts" and "figures" that are tossed around. If you are not strong enough you will fail to retain the light of truth within.
There was a quote several years back that has always stuck with me and has helped me overcome taking any offense from someone elses words. In essence the quote was, "To be offended is an outward sign of an inner problem or condition which must be calmed and tamed". This has proven true time and time again. If someone attacks you for a comment of faith that you have made the inner problem is with them and not you. Just don't engage in furthering their cause.
If you keep the upper path it will serve to strengthen your faith.
That's difficult to understand.
The facts and figures for any number of things like a physical law or the speed of light will "sway" because they are parts of reality that cannot be ignored. If you're suggesting that you should deny the existence of these physical characteristics or any others because they come close to shaking your beliefs is purposely and selectively deluding oneself.
First of all, you can't attack a persons beliefs the same way you can attack the person. If someone says your beliefs are ignorant or intelligent, this is not the same as saying that you're stupid or fat or ugly. The first is an attack on an ideology, something you learned from someone else, whereas the second is an attack on you personally. See the difference?
Secondly, what you're promoting to do only stifles discussion and engagement, and demonstrates an unwillingness to see things any other way but your own. You appear to want to create a world and push everyone out that doesn't agree with it.
Quite true, believers want to create a world where God rules their lives and to help restore Creation to where the created worships the creator, rather than the creation.
Push everyone out that does not agree with it...
I guess you are correct, for personally as a believer I try to have as little interface with the world as it stands as possible, you are welcome to it 100%, for it is a dying decaying sick world that secular humanism has created from Gods Creation, a world where good is called bad and bad is called good.... 'wicked'
....which apparently means good now a days... (my case rests)
But I would not say push out those who disagree, more let them go their own way and choose to follow what God tells us to do, rather than join them in their servitude to Satan.
It's more a case of those who reject God having chosen their own disassociation from those who do accept God.
Whoa! Hold the phone here!
The world has been under the rule of religions and their believers for centuries. Give credit where credit is due if you're claiming our world is a "dying decaying sick world"
Sorry, but that's exactly the same thing.
Nonsense, it is simply and evidently a case of others not sharing YOUR personal beliefs. You thusly create an "us vs. them" position.
Not MY personal beliefs, but beliefs shared by 25% of the worlds population (to greater or lesser degrees) as they are the stated beliefs of God.
If there was not already existing a 'them and us' situation, we would not be having this debate in the first place, and as 75% of the worlds populace hold different views from Christians, we are the minority so how can we be pushing you out?
As for "The world has been under the rule of religions and their believers for centuries."
Yes it has and it continued much as it ever did until we got to the present times, until the "Age of enlightenment" took precedence over Gods word, and the modern world was formed by secular humanists, a world of rational thought and no reason.
The destruction of our planet and morals and traditions has been on this watch, the "Age of enlightenment" has driven us back into spiritual darkness.
Why on earth would I desire to have anything to do with it?
Yet, within your very own religion, there are thousands of sects who have different beliefs than you (to greater or lesser degrees) but it still doesn't mean you or they are right.
Yes, and we all moved out of medieval times where the average life span was about 35 years and hygiene and medicines were literally non-existent. The fact that those who demanded we drag along the myths and superstitions of those dark ages are what screwed us up in the first place.
Then, by all means, grab your bible and go live in a cave if you feel the "Age of Enlightenment" has done you wrong. You won't, though, will you?
Cave dwelling is a wonderful alternative. Act now.
All adversity helps to build faith and assurance in God and Christ.
If atheists do help build a Christians faith, then it only demonstrates the ease in which one can shake their faith and that the building is done out of spite.
Nonsense, it merely shows that God allows atheists to probe and challenge believers in order that they keep their salt.
Matthew 5 - 11:15
“Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned?
It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Will I missed one question....
"And one last question- why is it a struggle to stay blessed?"
It's not really any struggle to stay blessed, if we stay obedient my profile pic (for this week)has that as a tag line and I use it a lot in comments and emails, it's a reminder to all to stay obedient.
Glad you noticed it, hope you can stay blessed yourself.
To me the division between atheists and Christians is pretty much artificial. Humanists arose in a Christian culture and share 99% of the beliefs of Christians. Though, of course, some Christians and some atheists deviate a long way from the norm.
I asked those questions because I think all people feel a need to belong to a group and often seek to define their identity by opposition to other groups. So Muslims for a long time have been used by Christians (and Humanists) to define themselves- Muslims in this scheme are everything that Christians (and Humanists) are not. And of course for many Muslims the reverse is true.
This route to self definition is so tempting- I am what I am because I am not one of the hated other group.
The hated others might be Catholics, Protestants, Gays, Atheists, Liberals, Conservatives etc etc.
There are a lot of advantages to this kind of thinking. It is easy for the lazy minded. It gives targets for the angry. It provides opportunity for those who can profit from divisions and tribalism.
There are also disadvantages. The truth is a major casualty- human beings are not so different. Populations who accept a tribal way of thinking of thinking are easily manipulated into wars. Inter communal strife ruins lives.
Sorry to dump this on your shoulders aquasilver. I'm not saying you are a bad person and I'm certainly not blaming you for all the strife we find around us. It just happened to be you laying down a (pretty mild)challenge to atheists when these thoughts were running through my mind.
Not any sort of challenge to atheists, the topic and the question is addressed to Christians, atheists need do nothing more than ignore the question as they obviously cannot answer it, being atheists.
Or am I being too logical?
I have never been any sort of joiner, I was singular and not part of the peer group at school, then 'joined' a pack of hairy bikers at age 13 and kinda controlled them (they were all older, but thick as two short planks) so everyone who formerly disliked me (for being the fat wimp) steered clear, because my 'friends' were rough, tough and protective of me.
My family have been self employed since 1841, so we don't get to be good little employees, and until I came to faith Ayn Rand was my role model and Atlas Shrugged my 'bible'.
So I kinda don't fit the standard mold as a member of society or as a member of the church body.
Do atheists help build a Christians faith?
If their faith is real it absolutely does. Every one should have the marbles in their heads shaken up a bit. Something has gotta make ya exersise your thinkin. Gotta turn our thoughts upside down and see what is at the base of all of it once in a while..
Do atheists help build a Christians faith?
All things of faith need to be tested before we gamble our lives upon them. A Roap manufacturer tests its product to its limits before putting it on the market.
Our faith needs this same kind of test (exersise)
Exersise makes us stronger. However; King David as a boy, knew what he could do before he went out and faced Goliath.
We cannot live without yin and yan. Both are needed in this present world.
...agreed ralwus, so long as we have balance....
I accept that the 'traditional church structure' held far too much power and sway in historical record, but equally the current secular humanist agenda has taken 'rationality' too far and needs correction.
i really dont believe in the christian faith, much like nearly everyone i know, even though we went to a christian school, but you know im sure when people say ah its a load of crap, which i have heard people say before, im sure they go back and read more into it, become stronger faith
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