Existence of GOD...?

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   suraj78posted 15 years ago

   "God is formless, because if He possesses a form He could never be Omnipresent, nor, therefore Omniscient; since a finite substance can possess only finite attributes, actions and nature. Besides, He could never be free from hunger and thirst, heat and cold, disease, imperfections and injuries. This proves, therefore, that God is formless. If He were to possess a body, another person would be required to make the different organs of His body, such as eyes, ears and the like, for He, who is the product of the combination of the different parts, must have an intelligent formless maker. Here if it be argued that God Himself made His own body simply by willing it, this too goes to prove that He was formless before He made His body. It is clear, therefore, that God is never embodied. Being without a body He is able to make the visible universe out of invisible (subtle) causes... Nor can the incarnation of God be demonstrated by reason, just as the saying of a man, that space entered a womb or was put in a closed hand, can never be true, for space being Infinite and Omnipresent can neither go in, nor come out; similarly, God, being Infinite and All-pervading, it can never be predicated of him that He can go in or come out. Coming and going can be possible only if it be believed that there are places where He is not. Then was not God already present in the womb and was not He already present outside that He is said to have gone into and come out of it? Who but men devoid of intelligence, can believe in and say such things about God? Therefore, it should be understood that Christ and other were also not incarnations of the Deity — being subject to fear and grief, births and deaths, they were all men."

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      skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Pure assumptions. Just like religion. Religions assume lot of things on behalf of god by assuming that god is answering them.
      
      Why god has to be formless to be omnipotent ? Have we tested the power of omniscience  to say that it requires no form ?
      
      One more escaping theist statement is god is beyond logic, in that case you're praying to something that is beyond logic ? Err, it's like sending Mobile SMS-text to radar beacons. And that way people even want to be with god ? Holy Pamela-anderson how come one can be with god by assuming he's beyond consciousness and logic?
      
      If you keep on answering questions on these lines you'll see that unless you test and verify you can't prove anything. Mere assumptions are personal opinion and we can chew lot of bubblegum with it.

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         suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         you are saying this by denoting to only religion. But one thing I have to clear that God is beyond the religion. Because no religion is so perfect to prove it's theory, personally i don't believe in any religion.

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            skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Well first assumption here you made is god exist,which you can't prove. If we're created from god then there is creation for god as well. You can't assume that he created himself or he's without creations. If you moving with that reasoning then those are again your assumption.
            
            One point you need to think about is if god exist, he gives damn to what is going on in universe. Any intellect that created this universe will not waste time accepting prayer emails and species management on any random planet. if he's cause of creation of species then he can create similar like us any time he wanted, he's got no reason to accept prayers or have time for thinking about us.
            
            Besides anything we assume for god is  just mere assumption, cause we started with assumption that god exists.

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               suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               One thing I have to mention world is the combination of three things- God, Soul and Matter. These three things are eternal, they can't birth or die. God means if you take example of any object in world have some reason. like chair made by carpenter by woods for other. this principle applies to all universe.

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                  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Lol, those are your assumptions. For starters, let's bring in Empirical evidence of soul ? is there any ? If you come up with that evidence then expect Nobel from Dr.deepak chopra who failed measurably to prove this many times 

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                     suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     no dear now you are thinking about soul which was explained in many religions, means souls that become ghost or can be seen with eyes. But i don't believe the souls like that. soul is so micro that it can't be seen by naked eyes. and anybody is trying to prove it then i don't think this is possible. every body cell have its own life they who are we? means we are different from body. we know that body become unconscious after death means the consciousness is the property of soul.

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                        skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Any test to validate your this piece of info ? No.
                        
                        In our india, we play lot of word-salad for things like soul, consciousness and spiritual blah blah. and when it comes to empirical evidence all goes down.

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                           suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           so are u a indian, then you have some knowledge about Vedas.

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                              skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              yes i do have and don't throw vedic s*** to me for cosmology and physics discussion. vedas are poetic and not meant to be for science(if you are going to bring ayurveda then it's placebo while charak/sushruta content was never part of veda as people in india preach).

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                                 suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't think you have more knowledge about Sanskrit language. Because if you are saying the Vedas are only bundle of poems or something then you are wrong. you don't know  Ayurveda traces its origins to the Vedas, Atharvaveda in particular

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                                    suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    First read some books about Vedas then say that Ayurveda is not related to Veda.

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                                       skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                       Lol, i like it when people get offended for their ignorance.
                                       Rigveda and ayurveda are related to call it part of veda ? Ayurveda is placebo pharma text while rigveda is just piece of poetry,chew that even if it hurts.

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                                    skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    Do one thing for me. Find any data in Ayurveda about DNA and genes.

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                                       suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                       This not reason why are you going offbit are u saying that Ayurveda is not good for us.

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                                          skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                          Do you understand meaning of placebo ? Or you want to make up your mind based on my post ? Did i said it is not good for us or is it good in any of my post ? Read the word and not in between.

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            Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            If God is omnipotent, then God can, if God so desires, take on a form.

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               earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               and if he was any type of potent we would not be in the mess we are in!

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                  suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  We will in mess if we do or done any wrong activity, like disobey the natures law, so it is wrong to think that if God is present then will be alway mess free or happy.

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               suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               God is greater than us so thinking that doing odd things by God is impossible. Because then you will say that why he is alone, why he is not creating another God for help and many other questions. If God take a form then he will not present in all universe, he became from only one region then it is impossible to him to handle all universe.

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               (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, apparently he took on the form of a carpenter who got himself crucified so that he could fool the people into believing he died for their sins and then rose from the dead.
               
               Silly people.

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                  suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I will say that God never take the form.

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      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hogwash. There is no god.
      
      There is no creator of the universe. No singular individual created the universe.
      
      You want to get in the creator debate, you better bring more than your sad assumptions.
      
      The Earth wasn't created by any singular individual either, nor was humanity brought forth by the power of any individual entity.
      
      The Earth progressed/evolved on it's own. The Earth came to be because of the universe exists. Human life came about from Earth's progression/evolution forward.
      
      To say anything else is simply unsupported by an facts/truth.

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         lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         However this comment is true

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         suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I think you haven't read my full article I am not saying that god is single individual who belongs to any religion or country. I believe in God who is formless and present in every particle of the universe. Don't relate my views with any religion because i also don't believe in religion.

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      waynetposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You expect us to read all that text clumped together? and when it's about that G word!! you must be crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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         suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         ??

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            waynetposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            

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         suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I am not expecting that you must read whole my thoughts, I am just saying what I think it is totally up to you to be agree or not.

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      qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Suraj:
      May I ask what this "god" thing is you write about?
      I cannot accept opinion or conjecture as a credible response.
      There is no definition that can be produced in ref to this "god" thing in any other than in opinion or conjecture.
      If you cannot factually define "it," I must consider you to be just another imaginative person who is easily led.
      TY...:-)

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         suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think that this is conjecture and it is important to see that no religion can prove the existence of God at this time. But we don't know what will be found after some days.

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            qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Suraj:
            You misunderstood.
            I asked you a question: "What is this god thing you mention?"
            I didn't ask you for proof.
            What is it?..in terms other than opinion and conjecture.
            Ty

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   alexandriaruthkposted 15 years ago

   Hi, a very interesting topic philosophically, metaphysical, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, finite, infinite
   HMMM< this is a never ending debate  -- we are just self centered human beings always curious about ourselves--BEING and BECOMING, existence, LIVE and LET LIVE,
   
   Good day to you and good luck on your thoughts!

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      suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you so much dear. It is my pleasure to to read positive response. I think this topic is so challenging, but we have to share our thoughts with different views to know more about it. I believe that if any one it trying to prove his theory, he must prove it with some scientific manner.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         This is total nonsense. Why even mention science if you are postulating a god from nowhere? Are you going to scientifically show us this god?
         
         And - does this invisible god have any instructions for us? Do you have a message from it? Will I go to a special place when I die if I believe? Will it make any difference if I pray to it? DO I need to do anything at all?
         
         If not - who needs it?
         
         If so - it sounds awfully like religion to me.....

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            suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            let me explain God is not person link stated in many religions, it is one type of energy which is maintenance all universe. You can say this energy God, Means he is formless, and if you are thinking about how he do all natural activities then the answer is simple that by combining smallest particles in the world, science is also going towards this concept and call him Nanotechnology.

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               skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               How you know that god is energy and it is maintaining universe. any test that validates your claim ?
               
               Besides this question, what made you say that universe is maintained ? I see lot of out of order things ..... and nanotechnology , LOL man you're going rhetoric pseudo science way

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                  suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  if not then can you explain me how the all processes in universe are taking place.

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                     skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Define process in the universe first. Big-bang theory and inflation model is good for starters instead of approaching universe from spiritual side.

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                        suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        if you think that all universe created by one big ban or some thing else then you have to prove that all the matter in the universe is created after that. But this is not possible because nothing can be created from zero.

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Meaningless garbage. Because your next argument is going to be that matter can be created from zero - but only if a magical invisible super being does it.
                           
                           What are you arguing for? To prove that you do not understand the big bang? That much is clear. Not a big fan myself, but it certainly does  not say that something came from nothing. All the energy required was already there.

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                              suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              then if you are  saying that then I am also saying that matter is eternal and always present there.

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                                 Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 What has that got to do with an invisible super being.

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                           skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Let's start with spelling "big-bang". Another thing you have no clue about Big-bang. It starts from singularity, All matter and energy existed in an infinitely small point of infinite density a long time ago, and has since been expanding as our universe.
                           
                           
                           This is where God concept fails and not big-bang. As even god requires creation as it can't come from zero.

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                              suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              I didn't said that big ban theory. I know matter is alway there. But to happen this cause there must be some reason like use of it and the Processor who will do that. According to me this is done by God for soul form matter don't include any religion in it.

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                                 suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 I didn't said that the theory is wrong.

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                                 skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 Lol again you are thinking of big bang as explosion in universe. You're wrong. Big-bang is explosion of universe why it will require any processor if it is process itself ?

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               Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               If this god is not a person - why do you refer to "him"? And what difference does it make if this non-person exists? None? Why bother wasting your time assuming this exists? What are you going to do with this knowledge exactly?
               
               It exists and in no way interacts with us. Great. What use is that?

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               Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Suraj..if you say God is energy, then the lighter I use to lit my cigars is also God, the Tube light in my ceiling is also god, nd any source of energy would be god..it doesnt make any sense

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                  suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  what do you mean by energy also, are you considering only fire and electricity are the form of energy? suppose if you have to move any object then you have to use some type of energy. Like that some type of energy is present in the universe which is maintaining this universe. I think there will be some time to know more about it scientifically.

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   topgunjagerposted 15 years ago

   God's an a hole=)

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      suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What do you mean?

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      suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      @ skyfire but what do u think Vedas are not worth of knowledge.

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         skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Not knowledgeable ? Poetry has it's use for those in faith. So it's not waste for those who follow religion. Ayurveda has it's uses same goes for charak/sushruta text. But if you want to get answers for cosmology then sure it is dated and has religious touch which helps it go down more.
         
         Vedas are part of santan dharma for describing universe and our lifestyle. But taking it too ahead for the sake of flaunting ancestors by calling as ALL-knowledge in competence with science is far fetched in my opinion. (i don't fall for those RSS propaganda of saying everything was there is veda and science is now discovering it part)

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            suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            you can't say that before reading it. contact me on email we will talk there after 15 min

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               skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Lol another assumption from you that i haven't read it.
               
               Typical indian thinking that hints" if you disagree with vedas then you've not read it.

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                  suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  oh where did i said that i haven't read it, i know good as comparing to my age about Veda. By the way from which resource did you got info about Veda?

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                     skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     You've problem with comprehension. When i posted this statement "if you disagree with vedas then you've not read it. " that means it was YOU who made this remark to me in earlier posts. duh..
                     
                     Bhandarkar Institute Pune, is the place from where i've got enough info for vedas.

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                        suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        According to me you must visit any Arya Samaj for more knowledge about Veda because at this time Arya Samaj have more than 6000 branches in World. And I know no other organisation have more knowledge about Sanskrit and Veda.

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                           skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Sorry, i don't trust PRO-religious organizations who pretend to know veda. I prefer work of credible government institutes like bhandarkar institute and national mission of scripts(because of these two institutes rigveda was honored by UN).

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                              suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              here peoples like you fail dear. I think you don't know about Arya Samaj. we clearly say that we are not any cast or religion we are on movement that are trying to spread knowledge of Veda and our Indian history before 3000 years. It is not any religion!

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                                 skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 I like this. As i said earlier, if i disagree with you then i have no idea about it ? Bravo

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                                    suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    This is not answer, agar aap kisi chij se sahem nahi ho to apko pahle use janana chahiye aur phir asahmati vyakt karni chahie.

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                                       skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                       See i told you, You assume lot of things about others and have your own prejudice. If i disagree with you then your answer is that i have not read vedas or i have not gone through it ? You mean if anyone agrees with you then they've gone through vedas and have idea about it ?

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   topgunjagerposted 15 years ago

   exactly what I said=)

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      suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      But I don't think this type of discussion is worth. Please if you don't believe in God then feel free to tell your thoughts, so we can make good conversation.

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         topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Look at the world today=)

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   Hokeyposted 15 years ago

   I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't.

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      suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      @skyfire  I am not saying that you must agree with vedas after reading it but have no right to refuse it also.

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         skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Why i have no right to refuse it ?

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   errum fattahposted 15 years ago

   hey mate! its good topic but sorry i m not having any idea this time. I just like this so am leaving this little comment.

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      suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you so much dear! Have a nice day.

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   quicksandposted 15 years ago

   ... are we in a mess?

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      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yep. Too many starving.

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         suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         what type of mess?

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         quicksandposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Just feed 'em! That should "unmess" it up!

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            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I'm doin what I can. Need more money!Lots of kids out there hungry.
            I really like how Bill Gates is building his fight against disease and hunger. I heard an interview with him on the BBC. He will get to spend it all but his family, especially his dad are working very hard to get money past the crooks and in to communities. He is now showing other organisations how to do the same.

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               suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               ?????

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               quicksandposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               The main task is to get it past the crooks. However my hats off to all those (including you) who are involved in such noble projects.  I wish I too could participate. Cheers! 

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                  suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I think this is one of the great noble work than any other, to help other is greater than any religion.

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                  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  Bill has still got a big dollar coming in too! I wish there were a lot more like him.

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   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   I still don't see any god fixing aids, or malaria, maybe Bill Gates is god?

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      suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      It is true that we are facing some problems, but if we think about that why these all things are happening then we will find that there must be some mistakes made by human being against the Nature that arise some problems.

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         earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         or that if god made humans he made a mess of their minds!

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            suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            soul and God are two different things, God made only bodies from the matter not whole human, so God can't control the behavior of human being, if we think in positive manner then we find our self more blessed than other animals, God gave us basic things like air and water then food, so it's up to you how to think positively or negatively.

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               earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               We agree on one thing. It is up to myself to feel positive or negative.

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                  suraj78posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  

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