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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
Greetings to all!

I am currently beside myself and am in deep reflection. It has come to my attention that my posts contain hatred and intolerance. This troubles me as I have always remained open to someone else's opinions and beliefs. In fact, it uplifts me because I love to learn and hear from others.

It is troubling that when views of my faith are presented in response to a forum the waves and tempests of people's emotions come crashing down around my stance. I've literally been called a liar - which is totally fine. Conflict and walls of pride prevent learning and compromise. This should have no place among a group of people who share a love of writing.

We live in an age where we have been given a great gift. This is the gift of speech and the expression of ideas. This is awesome! We now have the ability to exercise this gift across the globe and it is truly a wonder. I enjoy expressions of Christianity as well as expressions of pure science. It is my rounded view that the more ideas are out there, the better. Whether right or wrong it gives the people greater ability to choose, for themselves, patterns of thought and living - greater liberty.

I've established this forum for the exclusive purpose of enabling anyone, who feels any of my comments have been aimed toward hatred or intolerance, to come forth and say so. Conflict is hurtful and creates sadness so there will not be any backlash from me - ever. I want to learn why and from where my words have created this mindset and hardship in the hearts and minds of others. I really want to know that I may better myself.

I now leave myself open to the critiquing of others. Thank you in advance as I appreciate all evaluations - good and bad.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  yenajeonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Golden: I've always felt you've remained pretty tolerant in all your 'religious-opinion' posts. Yes, religion will always remain a highly volatile topic and sometimes we have to expect people to speak 'passionately' about it. I myself am religious as I am a dead set believer so I do understand where your passion comes from.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Many thanks. It gets lonely when you are a lone voice in the wilderness.
  
  I thank you for your kind words of counsel.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  persecution/martyr complex...
  
  and identifying a discussion with nonbelievers as "the wilderness."
  
  Disrespectful and insulting.
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  Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think identifying a discussion with nonbelievers as "the wilderness" is a good metaphor for an unknown territory.
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  Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  goldenpath --
  
  I can't say I agree with your religious views, but you've always been polite in our conversations and I've never experienced you lying. You're obviously a kind, well-meaning man and that's all you need to be concerned with.
  
  Religious views (extreme or otherwise), the existence of God, the interpretation of the Bible, etc., can and will be debated forever. Just continue to be a good man and no one can ask more of you, even if they hate you and hate your beliefs.
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  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I always find your words very enlightening goldenpath!
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Goldenpath:
  It is not YOU that we hate and disparage, it is the arrogancy, which is based on abject ignorance that you portray in your trite responses that we hate.
  The bigotry you portray in your responses is abysmally obvious.
  To those of us who have done our "homework" in ref to the evolution of man and his propensity for believing in the "supernatural," you are reminiscent of scenes of muslims dropping to their knees and touching their forheads to the floor several times a day, or catholics, ritualistically, genuflecting before a statue of jesus or the mother mary...etc., etc..
  Your beliefs which are based upon the asinine activities of joseph smith Jr and his, alledged, gift from the angels of golden plates engraved with a chronicle of ancient American peoples, makes you out to be an easily led, sycophantish fanatic who spews the fiction of his cultish beliefs as truth.
  If I tell you that light travels at a speed of 182k mps, I can back that up scientifically.
  When you speak, adamantly about your religous belief as being "truth," you lose all credibility as being a "learned" person.
  Why? Because your belief is founded 100% on myth!
  There is no way you can deny that in other than opinion and conjecture.
  It is not you I hate.
  I hate the abject, self imposed ignorance that guides your life, comments and actions.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well quack you're wrong again as usual. Sorry you have this problem with religion but if you're nice we'll be glad to help you!
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sneak:
  lolol...I function "light yrs" beyond your ability to help.
  I'm not into "regression." I know you mean well, but you must accept the "fact" that I am the "one-eyed" man in the "valley-of-the-blind."
  Thanks for the oh-so-kind" offer.
  LMAO
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  angelrose18posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Arrogant - Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's SUPERIORITY toward others.
  Pride - An excessively high opinion of oneself; conceit.
  "I function light years beyond your ability to help."
  Now wait, who was calling who arrogant?
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So basically this is stating that unless Goldenpath changes his beliefs to that of yours he will always be so disdained regaurdless of how he exemplifies "we all are free to believe what we chose"?
  I understand why Goldenpath started this thread, and I am glad that he did for it shows how clearly some with a differing opinion are intolerant. Just because he disagrees and believes something different - others are uncomfy. And for the record - I am sure there are numerous degrees of differences to which Goldenpath and I would disagree on beliefs, but I sure don't think his belief should be silenced.
  Holly
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I bet you would have responded the same way if Jim Jones were to have posted here about his beliefs. Yes, let these people write pages of false history and convince others they are right. What's the harm, eh! Care for a cup of KOOL-Aid?
  
  And yes, I realize this is a bit harsh, but there were people just like you taking up for Jones and his right to convince others HE knew the right thing to do. I wonder how those defenders feel about their actions now?
  
  I do not equate anyone here with Jones, but this is an example of tolerance of irrational beliefs and those who promote them.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Has goldenpath poisoned anyone? Has he refused the request of a starving child to fulfil some unknown aspect of his beliefs? Does he advocate leaving starving children to their fate by doing nothing to alleviate their suffering? If so let me be the first to condemn his callousness.
  
  If not, then why do you compare him to a murderer? Why do you imply that simply by believing something you don't that he is likely to murder someone? Intolerance? I show you intolerance reflected in the mirror of your own words.
  
  What crime has he committed? What injury against humanity has he inflicted? So far all I've read is that has certain beliefs relating to why there is suffering in the world, but at the same time does everything he can to alleviate that suffering and from the sounds of it possibly more so than the average person.
  
  Show me the wrong goldenpath has done and I'll gladly lend my disapproval for whatever that's worth. If you can't show me any wrong other than him believing something you disagree with, then I suggest the "wrong" lies with those who cannot tolerate beliefs that differ from their own.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently you chose to ignore the last sentence in my statement, Don. Or should I have not posted the disclaimer at all?
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh don't get me started on rational/irrational beliefs, justified beliefs and theism. I like the subject, but people's eyes tend to glaze over whenever I mention it.
  
  Anyway, I did see your disclaimer but it implies that certain beliefs deemed irrational are non normative which I don't believe to be the case. Indeed I believe it's quite impossible for a human being to function practically in the world without assumptions.
  
  I also thought the points I wanted to make challenging certain attitudes towards certain beliefs were worth making in a broader sense, and not just in response to your specific disclaimed comment.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry too much about my eyes glazing over Don, you knew I just read your hub I quoted from.
  
  I'm sorry you assumed as you did about my disclaimer. I do agree about assumptions being necessary in lieu of facts in some instances, but only when facts are not evident. In some cults facts are not wanted. In some they are fabricated and taught to children as the truth. Hopefully these are harmless lies, as this is what they are, lies. You do not care it seems which is your right.
  
  But if you believe your own writing, this whole thread may just be a figment of your imagination anyway.
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what a sad person you must be,sounds like you get rained on every day!
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  qwark
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well at least qwark would recognise it was rain!
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  thevoiceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This the type of hate that feeds hate human separation in all life by God Jesus belief is human freedom choice
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I daresay, I stumbled across this thread quite by accident. But never have I been so entertained. I would prefer reading this than watching a Bob Hope "Road" movie. Sorry to interrupt. Please continue.
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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WriteAngledposted 14 years ago
Hello goldenpath,

I certainly have very different views on religion to you and disagree with a lot of what you say. However, I have no problem with the way you say it. I have not noticed hatred and intolerance in your posts. You state your point firmly, but, as far as I've seen, you do not engage in personal attacks nor do you belittle people.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I sincerely appreciate your comment. I am also grateful that despite our separate views you and I are able to engage civility in our exchanges. I believe it is a great wonder and ability to have different viewpoints on life. May seem weird but it is good!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How odd. Just yesterday I explained why your use of words was guaranteed to offend - and you told me (politely) that you did not care because you deserved automatic respect and TOLERANCE of your ridiculous beliefs.
  
  Now you are asking for criticism?
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/35371?page=2
  
  Or are you just showing us hoe T O L E R A N T you are?
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I respectfully differ. I said everyone deserves respect and tolerance. I care not what you do to me. You deserve these things every bit as much as I do. Not one above the other. Never - have I ever given such remarks.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And still you argue. LOLOLOL
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not arguing - trying to understand your loathing of my words.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt you'll ever understand, goldenpath. Your religion has destroyed your mind, your compassion and your life. It is deeply saddening to observe such a loss.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I respect you to, and acknowledge that you are an upstanding citizen and a contributing member of society because you have freedom to express your ideas and that you have compassion for those around you. What is sad is that the same courtesy cannot be reciprocated with the same level of civility and understanding that I have strenuously extended to all of you.
  
  It's always hate, hate, hate and not one ounce of understanding. It's as if I was in Desert Storm all over again.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't hate the religious, I hate the religion.
  
  Shouldn't you be thriving in the persecution? Oh yes, I see, you are.
  
  You may not be overtly insulting, you've cultivated a well modulated speaking voice, I'll give you credit for your showmanship, but your beliefs are still innately offensive. Despite your poor little persecuted me act, I still reserve my right to express my disgust with your inhumane and ridiculous beliefs.
  
  Yes, they are ridiculous beliefs. I say so not because I am intolerant of you yourself, or being disrespectful, but because your beliefs are ridiculous and inhumane.
  
  You, in turn, have the right through argument or discussion to try and persuade me that your beliefs are worthy of respect. It's not my fault you have failed to do so.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then, you should stop hating and begin to understand the world around you.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with Q on this, you keep demonstrating your total lack of empathy while promoting your boundless love!
  Most are not objecting to your religion specifically either, it is just the way you and your god show "love" that worries many.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agree ! It's really annoying !
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is almost a source of amusement.It remains totally invisible to the religious eye!
  A bit like their entity!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Invisibility everywhere !
  It makes sense.
  Very amusing !
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q, are you a psychologist, and is Goldenpath your client? If not, then who are you to say religion has destroyed his mind?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think Q is at least a good amateur.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello there, how about a nice apple? It'll make you smart!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One does not need a degree in psychology to synthesize the words of an insane madman.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps if you read what I wrote? No? Too much work. Sadly being deliberately obtuse is actually making things worse. Lying offends people.
  
  But - that is OK - because you deserve respect - right?
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am very sorry you are unable to read my clear words of mutually beneficial comments. I've always said that everyone deserves respect. I wish everyone would strip the walls of pride and accept the sincerity I am always putting out there.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Most of those children do not die for any other reason than they were born in the wrong place at the wrong time. Adopt one. One less dies. How the hell does that work?
  Your explanation is nonsensical to me and totally without reasoning.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The original point was that I was callous and without compassion. I have explained my point. Regardless of whether you believe it or not you cannot say that I have none given the beliefs I have extended. It's an opinion which places these precious one's on a very high level.
  
  Let's not debate the doctrine. We've done all that before. Let's get to the point of the indictment against me. Based upon my "fairy tale", as you would put it, one cannot claim I have no compassion.
  
  You are entitled to your opinion and that should be celebrated, but address the accusation, please. Resolve this.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, you can add callous and without compassion I have no problem with that. What I see is having adopted a child myself and bought him up, he has a totally different life to the one he was going to. If I can change the circumstances for one child, that denies your belief does it not?
  One evil non god fearing person can do this for one child, yet your god has to leave them there to rot in an earth-hell?
  Nobody gets to decide where they are born. Why do I have all the luck to be born in Australia? My ancestors were convicts!
  This is where the circumstances come from. Does your god makes the decision when and where everyone has sex too? Even extra-marital sex or rape during war that results in pregnancy?
  
  You see, it is a nonsense.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would suggest that if all the money wasted on maintaining and perpetuating the LDS belief were devoted to such causes, then quite a good deal could be accomplished. But I guess it's more comfortable for you to just maintain your delusion that these dead children you raise up so doubtfully high in your underwhelming compassion are dead for a purpose for the glory of your god.
  
  A parasite on society. Why should I respect that?
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let's not go there. Billions are spent every year in humanitarian efforts. We have Church farms of thousands of acres solely devoted to the needy across the world. We have poor members who gladly give of their time to sew blankets for children here and abroad. Hundreds of thousands of supplies have been sent to Haiti from the Church. The same happens all the time. Billions are spent in mobilizing such efforts and it's all done through volunteer manpower efforts. How is it funded? The membership from the child to the old adult who is impressed to donate to this special fund do so willingly and by glad choice. That's how it's funded. I used to work for the Church Finance Department and I swear that not one penny is pocketed by anyone. It's all donated by those in the name of faith. And so it's passed on, by faith, to those who need it around the world.
  
  And it's said we have no compassion.....
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  those church farms sound cool. thousands of acres? wow. i never heard of that before. are they in the US? i'm just curious about that. can i Google map it? sorry but i am sincere in asking. i think things like that are interesting, especially since no one talks about it.
  
  thank you for all that you guys are doing. i know bunnies aren't humans, but i only buy stuff for my bunny from the bunny rescue because 100% of the money goes right back to the bunnies, so i consider it money well spent.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is why there is no "paid" clergy in the Church. One should not be paid for filling a calling to serve the people. Tithing funds offered to the Church go to buildings and maintaining those buildings, primarily our temples. Our Fast Offering funds are donated to the Church and are "specifically" earmarked for the aiding of the sick and afflicted.
  
  I honestly don't know it they can be Googled or not. I know we have massive farms in Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, California as well as other US states. I know we have many abroad but I honestly don't know right off where they are located. All these farms are cared for through volunteer efforts and by our missionaries assigned to these areas.
  
  We also have thousands of "Bishop's Storehouses" in operation. These are basically not-for-profit outlets where the needy are sent by their local minister to obtain food and the necessities of life. These are stocked with food from the church farms and non-food items from our church factories.
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just one question: Do church help just to increase count of followers ? Yes they do that for reason. There is no such thing like humanity. Everybody works or help others for some return be it for profit, for sake of religion or to avoid seeing somebody in trouble or even to kill boredom. We all are selfish and don't do something if we don't get anything in return.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, you'd be surprised. I vouch nothing for other faiths but for mine it's all done silently without flashbulbs or newsreels. When the need is identified we act and go with no thought of personal reward or recognition. Just as cosette said that you never hear of the LDS farms and factories. It was never meant to be a glamour shot or media circus. It's all for relief of the suffering. For the most part even the membership doesn't know a fraction of the efforts undertaken for relief abroad because it's just not widely publicized. In light of this, no, it's definitely not for membership numbers.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that supposed to make everything better? Will it wipe clean your hateful and intolerant views? It is irrelevant to your words and actions that speak louder than, and merely demonstrates your lack of empathy and compassion for others as you attempt to mask it with rhetoric.
  
  If the members of the LDS think and believe as you do, then there is good reason to rid the world of this dangerous cult as it will clearly do great harm to mankind.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely unethical and reprehensible are the words that come forth from the heart filled with hatred. If you cannot show even a fraction of common civility than please demonstrate you have better things to do and please do no associate with my words. I will not sink to such levels of a condescending attitude.
  
  I respect you but I don't deserve such egotistical remarks from anyone.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  persecution/martyr complex.. this whole thread demonstrates a persecution/martyr complex.
  
  But I guess that's okay because it fits your religious self-image.
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kephriraposted 14 years ago
The freedom of expression you value includes not only expressing your own thoughts and opinions, but also expressing your thoughts and opinions on other people's thoughts and opinions. Conflict like this should not be seen as a bad thing. Nobody really learns much if you just nod and say 'that's nice' about everything other people say and then move on. It may seem, particularly in religious topics as you say, that nobody learns and everyone just gets more entrenched in their own viewpoint, but perhaps they are learning more about there own opinions by facing the challenges even in these scenarios. I'm not aware of anything you've written that you should feel bad about.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very reflective. Thanks for your input.
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livewithrichardposted 14 years ago
Hatred and intolerance? They sure they have the right guy? I don't participate in the Religion forums because of the hatred and intolerance, definitely not by you. Plus, this may sound harsh, but I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks about my belief as I don't give a rat's ass about their beliefs. The forums are not a place to seek fellowship that's what we have congregations for. For me, that's the only place I will seek it.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here Here, This says it all!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. I must admit I get myself in trouble by replying to posts. My problem is that when someone is being sincere in asking me a question - I want to answer it. My answers, though, are NOT well liked or received by many who live on the forums. For that reason they seek to strip me of my own liberty to answer questions in the way that I do.
  
  Thanks for your reply. I will try to utilize your suggestion more.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ignore them and move on....
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, ignore them. Shove your beliefs down everyone's throat and then ignore them when they show their discontent. Bravo!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q,
  
  Honey, this is not about you....not this time.....
  
  This is about goldenpath and his emotions....we'll get to you later. Just let us give goldenpath some attention right now.....O.K??
  
  Love ya,
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ladies and gentlemen! Please! Can we avoid these verbal fisticuffs?! At the very least put on gloves to soften the blows! Please, continue . . .
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i just fanned you because you are obviously very smart and thank you
  welcome
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Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago
Your just a BIG Intolerant Meany!! (grinning).

All joking aside, putting yourself out there to be criticized is a humbling gesture, one that I respect.
I don't agree with all of your beliefs. I think, but am not positive, that your of the Jewish faith?

The firm belief that the Bibles hold all truth is where you and I differ in opinion. There are truths in the Bibles but they are not infaliable.

You have never come across as arrogant to me nor as hateful or disrespectful. Sometimes somewhat misguided would be the only negative adjective I would attribute to your interactions in the forums.

Peace and Love, Mikel (and I am always open to criticism, or being told I am wrong because...)
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your evaluation. There is nothing wrong with people who differ. What's important is that both sides listen to each other without the walls of pride. After that make your own judgement. At the end of an exchange both retire with good feelings of one another.
  
  Thanks again for your counsel. Peace as well!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No one can feel good after they've read such sickening selfish things like this gem:
  
  "I have explained that by and large the dying children's salvation is all but assured. Their primary purpose is for the rest of us to learn charity, action and compassion."
  
  How unbelievable callous and hateful. One can only reel in disgust and vomit at such words.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I read this and felt it sounded very callous as well.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  if that's the case, why don't we just corral starving children into an enclosure and put them on display in a sort of zoo or something, because the world has seen images of famine-stricken, emaciated children in third-world countires for generations and people aren't becoming more compassionate.
  
  it is comments like these that upset people. starving anguished people put on display as an object lesson for unbelievers? oh my.
  
  to answer your original question though i haven't seen you be mean to anyone, GoldenPath, if my opinion matters to you.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, this helps. It seems that the sticking point of those who openly oppose me, vehemently, is my views on afflicted children.
  
  For those who strongly suggest there is no God it is curious that you curse such a God that would suffer the children. Though I applaud your love and compassion for the children you need not be angry at a God whom you believe does not exist - or even the people who do believe He exists.
  
  The doctrine I point out is this. If God is merciful, kind and just - then why and for what purpose do these things happen? What I offer is an alternative answer to your tense question.
  
  In those comments I put these children on a very high pedestal. I'm sorry you cannot see this. The children who die before accountability are the souls that were on the front line in the war in heaven. They proved the most valiant and precious. Because of their display their lot here is to acquire a body and not to suffer the trials of temptation. When their mortality is over they shall have knowledge, responsibility, authority and power beyond anything we can imagine. Because of their valiance, emnity was placed between them and Satan - by God, Himself. Now, having a mortal body yet not suffering the bondage of sin they must serve a purpose for those around them. It is our job to reach out to the sick and afflicted. They remind us the need of charity. They remind of the need of medicine in third world countries. They remind us of haste in our action to their relief. For this reason we are always engaged in humanitarian efforts - to succor the sick, afflicted and the poor and downtrodden. Is that callous to think so highly of these children? Come on now. Consider what I've said. Considering their proven valiance in spirit, it is actually the rest of us who truly need the spiritual help and they aid in this endeavor.
  
  I am not advocating their plight, but explaining it. In turn I am also explaining our duty and responsibility in learning the lessons they are teaching us.
  
  How much clearer can that be.
  
  Cosette, yes your comments are welcome and greatly appreciated.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, you justify your hatred and intolerance further. You will never get it, will you? It's all about you and your god, isn't it?
  
  How very sad and disappointing it is to see what cult indoctrination has done to the mind.
  
  Unbelievable.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hey there...
  
  actually i'm not angry at God. or at believers. i guess i just never cottoned to the Chrstian personification of God - angry, petulant, playing head games with humans who are nothing more than ants to him. if i were Lord of the Ants, i would be kind to them and respect their natural instincts and not command them to ignore their natural ant instincts or call them sinners for doing what ants do, or kill my son so ants could live. that just doesn't make a lot of sense
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AHA! But your ants have not been given a spiritual guide to live by -- to some known as a Bible. It is this spiritual sustenance that separates man from beast, mortal from insect. Please, as you were saying . . .
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Tex, heard about ya'll seceding from the union and all. Does this mean the Longhorns are going to be playing in Mexico or somewhere? LOL
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  nicely said
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(Q)posted 14 years ago
Here are just a few wretched, sickening and twisted posts in the last week from goldenpath:

At least in my opinion and what I preach I believe that the mental disabled are assured as far as salvation is concerned. Their purpose is for our mission in life to obtain the hope of coming close to their faithfulness and valiance proven before the world was. The same goes for the children who die while unaccountable.

To understand the reason for the madness you must first look beyond the madness. Disease, starvation and murder are things temporal and are preventable by us. We have power over these things. There will always be children who shall die before they are accountable. As stated in my hub these are among the most valiant of souls presented before the Father. There lot in mortality is to gain a physical body. The same can be said for the mentally retarded and those who go through life unaccountable for their actions. Yes, it is a disgrace what they go through but it is for a purpose. Many things we can control and prevent and other deaths are for a much higher purpose for souls with a much more depth of faith and valiance than the rest of us portrayed in the beginning. They are assures but must traverse their lot in life for their body and to serve a greter mission to all of us.

That's the point! That's the miracle. It is also unacceptable to God. That's why He has given US the power and the means of blessing the lives of those around us and by so doing learning compassion and charity along the way. Without these examples and opportunites there would be no learning of any fruitful ends. We, in affect, are commanded to be the miracle for the world as the power has already be bestowed and given us. When the time comes for me to make an accounting of my work I, too, will be asked what I have done with the gift of liberty and my worldly means in support of succoring the poor and the needy. If not prepared I will be beside myself at that ultimate realization that I've had the power all along.

Interesting how there is always a response filled with complaints. It goes to show how not having a long outlook on life can really lead one into conflict and complaint. Having a greater perspective on life enables one to be more active and charitable in succoring the dying children.

Life, in this sphere was never meant to be fair as far as opportunities and worldly wealth. However, in the eternal outlook of our purpose all is fair and I hold no reservations in those words as I have come to recognize and see the intricate nature, grandeur and beauty of the plan from the starving child to the rich and powerful. It is a full circle. It's all about what WE make of this life and not a matter of what God allows to happen amongst ourselves.

Answers to the last three posts:
First one. He does hear the prayers of the dying children. However, they are already saved. This mortality is but a twinkle of an eye and when the dying, if they are so called to it, cross over they will experience that same difference in time reckoning and will feel relief. Their primary purpose is stated in the next paragraph.

Second one. I am glad from your statement you acknowledge Him as something real. It is a relief. Don't worry I know what you meant. In posts past I have explained that by and large the dying children's salvation is all but assured. Their primary purpose is for the rest of us to learn charity, action and compassion. Hard but necessary lessons.

Last one. Even with begging if it is with a broken heart and contrite spirit those prayers will be heard. However, all things are in His will. If something was meant to be that is a part of your prayers then it will be. If not then either it's not part of His design and plan or something more needs to be learned before that prayer comes to pass.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand the point you are making. These are all opinions of mine in answer to questions. That's the point of the forum. Because you disagree, immensely, you serve to call me of something lower than dust. To me this is not adult behavior. Make your own judgement, fine, but please don't call names on the playground. I've had enough of that in second grade. I will not be lured into name calling or conflict of communication. It is disrespectful of both you and I and degrades one's own integrity. Thanks for your time.
  
  I have other respectable people to answer right now. Thanks alot for your exchanges.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, you don't understand the point, that IS the point, you just don't get it. You speak of respect, but you show none to those who are dying or dead of starvation, as they are merely placed there by your god for your entertainment.
  
  Respect? It would be almost be funny if it wasn't so sickening.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In a narcissistic delusional mind, hurting others doesn't register.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It always has that element doesn't it? I have noticed this for many years with zealots, they say accidently who they are!.
  
  I live in a city with a strong religious presence in charity and good works, these people never mention their religion much. Too busy helping out. Lots of atheists and other non-believers like myself are part of these teams of helpers. many of these church members never go to church apart from to support charities, many do not believe and haven't for years! What I am saying is people who want to help just do so.The church for some is just an infrastructure that allows organisation and administration that better enables a smooth machine to feed house and clothe people, and look after the mentally ill in an optimal way.
  
  I just wanted to point out that I do know how much good is done by churches. By the way there are as many non religious organisations doing the same thing.
  Some churches don't do religion much!
  As well as those experiences, my son paid for his expensive education by being a chorister with our largest church choir. He is Chinese and lived in Xian and the Beijing in a totally non-religious family till he was 6. He loves singing, they did not bother him with religion. Win win!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I've never said those with no belief in God have not charity. As a religious leader I work closely with Christians and non-Christians alike in humanitarian and community efforts. It all comes from within as you've states many times before.
  
  Since you have stated, several times, your love of others and your charity toward them and I have repeatedly done the same why is it not possible that we can at least connect on that level - that we feel something for human suffering and are out there doing something about it? Bitterness is counter-productive. We both know it. No - we ALL know it. It is a choice to instill the mastering of our emotions.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then do something about it. Goldenpath has consistently been one of the most respectful participants on these forums. Your obvious beef is with starving children - not the hubber.
  Goldenpath - ignore those who are manufacturing this supposed poor attitude from you. I surely do not see you engaged in anything less than respectful. God Bless, Holly
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No Holly, for the thousandth and one time, my beef is not with the starving children. I know you'll never understand that and I see no reason why you would as it has been made clear that you lack the ability to synthesize.
  
  As for goldenpath, yes, he is very delightful in his hatred and intolerance, just like the snakeoil salesmen who will pump your hand and offer a gleaming smile, all the while holding a knife behind his back. He is the used car salesmen trying to sell you a lemon as politely and courteous as one can employ. Some, like yourself, only see his politeness and courtesy towards others while failing to read his words and their context, which are full of hatred and intolerance.
  
  And, he is being called on the content. Of course, he is ignoring those calls in favor of pleading for how polite and courteous he is to everyone, just like the snakeoil salesman.
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the name of the Almighty! What blasphemous abomination is going on here?! Have you people no respect for those of us who are trying to sleep?! Turn down the volume or curtail your venom! I paid a pound and six pence for my lodgings! I'd like to get my money's worth! Please, continue . . .
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
I don't agree with your specific religious beliefs...but as long as you are not harming people you are entitled to your ideas.....

I have argued with you before, but cannot say that you have every responded to me with any sort of overt negativity....
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
I am firmly entrenched in the Bible Belt, goldenpath. You know, a church for every type cult you can imagine. I have seen it all when talking about religious folk. Naw, other than a slight misunderstanding , I have no problem with you, sympathy perhaps, but sticks and stones and all that.
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Why can't we get one of the good Gods. It seems like there would be one somewhere with enough self esteem not to punish and torment their creations with war, famine, and disease. Having omnipotence and not using it for good seems to be sinful. I wonder if there is a hell for bad gods?
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Hell for bad gods".
  
  brilliant. i luv that idea.
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ha? Sorry, but I couldn't help but overhear. Is God here to guide our every movement, our every blink of the eye?! Did He not provide us with a brain and a set of rules on which to use it? Why must every transgression or folly be blamed on an uncaring and contrite God? What weak simpletons we are. Drat! I just stubbed my toe! God's fault. Good night. (Please continue . . .)
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I have not read the Greek gods lately, but Zeus being right up there with the biblical god with the killing and the maiming an all. He should be incarcerated along with a fair few of his offspring. His missus would definitely be in the slammer with him.

Add the god from the quoran and we got us a right bunch of bad guys!
Bipolar, psychopath, socio-psycho's all round, the whole mess in one hit! I say find the invisible fairy first and get him before the human rights commission!
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(Q)posted 14 years ago
Wonderful gems of purpose:

"will always be children who shall die before they are accountable. As stated in my hub these are among the most valiant of souls presented before the Father. There lot in mortality is to gain a physical body. The same can be said for the mentally retarded and those who go through life unaccountable for their actions. Yes, it is a disgrace what they go through but it is for a purpose"
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
@goldenpath

You say you need information from your fellow hubbers.
Really ?
I think you're a grown up, or so it seems from your avatar.
Don't you know what you post and in what manner ?
Don't tell me you don't know what your words would mean for other hubber.
what's this thread for ?

I remember very well, when you comment against my Bikini avatar.

and you didn't know what you were doing, right ?

Pleasseee !
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Point being?
  
  I expressed my opinion and left it alone. After that I never held it against you.
  
  I never used words that were callous or without compassion to you as I am currently charged with.
  
  Opinions and views are to be celebrated when they are expressed. As grown ups we should have already learned the need to respect each other's comments and let it be. Now, I am being charged. I am asking for backing for the charge.
  
  Thanks for responding to the thread, though.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The point is I'm sure you know perfectly well what you post as comments.
  I do. So I infer you do as well.
  I wouldn't open a thread to ask fellow hubbers if I'm hateful or not, as I know perfectly well when I am and when I'm not.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, but when one is baffled at the accusation, given the constant outreach to be neutral with someone - one can see why the thread was opened. If I am guilty of the charge and the accuser is unable to adequately serve the evidence of the charge then I must open it up to all to offer evidence and/or input on my conduct here. I do so to learn and to eventually be better in my exchanges. Thus far no such evidence has been adequately presented. From what I see it's not how I say something but rather the doctrines and opinions I personally have that stick to the heart of people.
  
  They cannot just let my opinions be. They must diligently always use the terms "liar", "callous", "ridiculous", "hatred", "nonsensical" etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.
  
  Can anyone see the vicious circle in this? There is no civility in this. There is no trust in the people out there to make their own decisions that my remarks are crap.
  
  I don't do this to others and for that they attempt to back me in a corner. I am sorry to be offensive in my doctrines but we need to be greater than that.
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
goldenpath I think the bottom line for me is that I do not believe religious people are tolerant of others, or respectful, or loving. Once one of you guys becomes hopelessly indoctrinated, everything and everyone in the world gets skewed in your perception to fit your religion and the glory of your god.

I don't agree that because you may refrain from calling people names and/or because you may have developed a faux love to gloss over your speech that it makes you a truly tolerant person, or truly respectful of others, or indicative of any true love for others. It's just a way of speaking. Kudos to you.

Your tolerance is legally enforced, your respect is a thin veneer, and your love for us only goes as far as your nonexistant god's.

For example, in the other thread today you finally directly answered my question, and your answer is that the expert linguists who exposed the fraud of your founder's translation weren't learned experts but were under the influence of the Adversary with a capital A. They had their own agendas, you said. Where is your love and respect for them?

You basically say that these experts must be evil, and their learned knowledge wrong because it goes against your religion. You trust the revelations of a con man over science and knowledge.

Your definition of studying is to ignore known knowledge and pray until your mind gives in and just accepts the tenets of your religion.

This is all dangerous to society. I don't think these viewpoints should be tolerated or respected. They're twisted, delusional and yes, narcissistic. Religious people like yourself are a plague and a pestilence on society. And in America at least, you do everything you can to thrust your beliefs as fully as possible onto society. Why shouldn't I fight back against this? Persecution? Your beliefs need to be persecuted.

No I do not agree to disagree with people who believe I am a spurner of goodness bound for hell.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, this is odd. Your first three paragraphs admit the positive qualities of my comments, yet, you state that they are not genuine. Wow! Interesting how you are able to reach through the internet and see what my soul's intent is. I believe in, say what you feel. If you doubt the sincerity I really cannot do anything about that.
  
  I've never called the experts evil. Again, like the other, my words are twisted to fit the desired contention. My point was that there are hundreds of thousands of people dead set on destroying the LDS faith. They do so through supposed "logic". They do so through fabrications of the histories of the prophets. They especially do so through science. Those who have this agenda to destroy a faith will always find means to support their cause. I know this happens because I have been told, first hand, by those with such agendas. They live for it. They relish it. They feel it to be the reason for their existence. These are the ones who are influenced to do the Adversary's bidding.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not odd, it's quite typical of many religious people. They "love" homosexuals, but don't want them to have equal rights. They "respect" atheists, but must find within us a hardened heart which spurns the 'goodness' of your god. They "tolerate" those of other faiths, but feel that those of their own faith are the only ones who are truly enlightened.
  
  I'm not saying all religious people are knowingly fraudulent. Quite the contrary, as I have expressed in these forums and elsewhere before, I believe that MOST religious people are truly striving to do what is right and good.
  
  BUT YOUR RELIGION TWISTS YOUR PERCEPTIONS IN A WAY THAT IS DANGEROUS TO SOCIETY. Why is it that you fail to understand that? Let us say that we honored and tolerated a religion which called for 1000 humans to be sacrificed daily to their god. Should we tolerate that? Should we respect it? Should we give any credit to their prophets?
  
  No! Guess what? Your religion in effect is not that different.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! Again, interesting. Where have I, anywhere, said my faith advocates the sacrifice of thousands. That's weird and twisted, I agree, but never came forth from my fingers to the keyboard.
  
  If you are referring to my doctrines of children again my words cannot get clearer. The Church does not advocate it by any means. I've already said that. Point is, amongst the discord of the heart that suffering causes we should struggle to find meaning to all things pertaining to life. To say we advocate such atrocity is a F A R stretch, indeed.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is an excellent example. By trying to place everything neatly into your picture of the world -which of course must conform to your religious beliefs- you twist your perceptions of reality. This isn't a problem, it's god's plan! Yes they suffer here on earth, but in heaven they will be lifted up! Science isn't trustworthy, it's inspired by the adversary! Nonbelievers aren't sane and reasonable people, they're misled by their own unenlightened hearts! etc etc.
  
  But it's clear to me from your answers thus far that you're not really listening.
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skyfireposted 14 years ago
Tolerance is not one-way street. Besides that are we suppose to expect civility and respect in religious debate from either side ? Height of expectations.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I think the initiation of this thread only serves to demonstrate a self absorption.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It can happen. We can start by not saying who's going to Hell, not belittling anything that is sacred to others, and overall not be so thin-skinned as to take a statement of beliefs as a personal and direct insult.
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
I should add that I don't object to your religion in particular either.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
And I would like goldenpath's point of view about my comment

'The point is I'm sure you know perfectly well what you post as comments.
I do. So I infer you do as well.
I wouldn't open a thread to ask fellow hubbers if I'm hateful or not, as I know perfectly well when I am and when I'm not.'

It's really hard to believe an adult, doesn't know if the things he write are going to disturb someone or not.

Reality check... urgent !
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. It's like they are children who haven't yet learned to recognize when their words or attitudes are foolish, selfish or hateful.
  
  And, like children, they seem to expect to be coddled and indulged, demanding respect even as they stomp their little feet and throw a tantrum.
  
  What you end up with is spoiled adults incapable of dealing with reality.
  
  I don't tolerate such behavior from my children, why would I tolerate it from adults?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly what I'm talking about !
  And the funny thing is, that when I say something like this to them I'm always snubed. Never received an answer
  Which makes me laugh a lot
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry about the "throw a tantrum" remark. I didn't realize whom I was responding to, lol.
  
  I'm out of this thread. I believe it was nothing more than a cry for attention. Again, like a child.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah ! just like the other thread nikki opened about spamming her threads !
  I'm laughing so much tonight !
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chocolate_guyposted 14 years ago
.....i was once an active church goer....not so active now....if u know what i mean....but even now i still dont agree with some of things they do inside the church.....but the thing that makes me believe that there is a God is that everything that exist has a creator....its like everything around us all the technology and everything branches out from something that has been created before.....so someone has created something before us that braches out here today.....
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
that's ok, GoldenPath, i Googled myself and found a lot of information. thanks. i think a better way of teaching people compassion is to make people convicted of crimes go out and do good works. for example, if you are an arsonist, you should be sentenced to building houses for homeless people. there is a controversial new therapy they are using for convicted sex offenders, the "worst of the worst", who are lodged in a hospital for the criminally insane, even though they are not actually insane. they just have nowhere to put them and they are too dangerous to be released into society. they force the offender to listen to 9-1-1 tapes of a woman being attacked by a rapist. it makes them uncomfortable but puts them in the victims's shoes. of course, the ACLU is on them like a duck on a JuneBug
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000%
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
haha is that a google?
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To Google Church efforts might I suggest the official site of lds.org There are more "anti" sites against the LDS Church than all other faiths combined, including those supporting terrorism. Going straight to the horse's mouth, so to speak, is the best way to find out first hand information.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh no i meant the number - i misspelled it. that is a pretty big number though. here is a googol:
  
  10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
  000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
  000,000
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I'm a little slow. Now I understand. Forgive my slow nature.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That could pay off a few bills. It would take care of my 30 year mortgage on my dinky little home right here in southwest Iowa. In fact, it might make a little dent in the combined world debt!
  
  Better yet, we could feed all the hungry.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  persecution complex...
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(Q)posted 14 years ago
Your views on children are clear. You would grow fat on your gods provisions all the while watching as your god allows thousands of children to starve to death each day and then justify it as some sick and twisted test of your faith.

Yes, your words are clear. All too clear, unfortunately.

You can wrap up your hatred and intolerance in a beautiful box with shiny paper and bow to deliver as pleasant as can be, but the contents of the box are all that is relevant and not your delivery.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very succinctly said.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that crikets I hear?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know, the only ones ultimately responsible for allowing children to starve are... you and me.
  
  God gave us a job to do. It's not God's fault we choose to ignore him or be lazy about it.
  
  I wonder how respectful it is to use starving children as a shibboleth.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? It's our responsibility? What about your god, what responsibility does he have when he puts food on your table, answers your prayers, yet does nothing for them?
  
  If it is solely our responsibility, then shut up about your imaginary gods and take responsibility.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've never corresponded with goldenpath, but didn't he already say in this thread that he very much believes 100% in fighting poverty and starvation?
  
  He has clearly stated that fighting poverty and starvation is of major importance to him and the belief system he subscribes to, so that can't be your bone of contention, which leads me to believe the only bone of contention you have is that he holds a belief you disagree with.
  
  His beliefs about why there is starvation and poverty are exactly that, his beliefs. At what point is it acceptable to tell someone they mustn't believe something because you disagree with it?
  
  And how ironic that you speak of intolerance, while demonstrating the same. Which aspect of "aiding of the sick and afflicted" do you consider intolerant or hateful? Which aspect of it do you consider shows "lack of empathy and compassion". Indeed which specific action that goldenpath has advocated do you take issue with? Note I say action not belief.
  
  Without a clear explanation, your comments (along with some others in this thread) appear to be as bigoted as those you claim to be against.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  From one of your hubs, Don.
  
  "We are either both justified in our beliefs, or both unjustified in our beliefs.
  
  So which is it?‘
  
  You ponder the question . . ."
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
that's ok. nothing to forgive. that number expresses what happens when defict spending gets out of control
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
yes, many times over.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate your kind nature. It's been a rough afternoon.
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cosetteposted 14 years ago

you gots won-tons, i have to say. it's like feeding time at the shark tanks around here sometimes, and you were the kibble (or whatever sharks eat)
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AEvansposted 14 years ago
Your threads do not contain hatred nor intolerance good grief ignore those words and keep on writing!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My sincere gratitude for your kind words as well. You are a worthy advocate in time of need.
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
Brother Golden you have never been disrespectful to any one. I'm not near as nice as you are and they wouldn't know the difference. They view your polite behavior as a weakness not a virtue. They would love nothing more than for you to break step with your beliefs so they could pounce. There are some truely miserable people who have no respect for anything decent thats why we must never be turned around. Their goal in life is to destroy normal behaviors and conventions so they can change normal to include whatever they want to include. It's not you if you were to say it looks like rain today they would twist it to mean you oppose gay marraige. They take the adversaries position on any issue that would be questioned by Christian. I know you're a good man, father and husband. I know you love Heavenly Father and Jesus as you should and want to help your fellow man. Don't let this nonsense bother you! You are a righteous man who knows what he does is right and thats all that matters.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that a twisted perception of reality I hear?
  
  Sneako I know the difference between you and perseycomp. You're overt with your misperceptions, and you don't cry when people point out how misguided they are, and he tries to hide his behind a thin veneer of civility and a public cry of persecution.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know we attend the same church and he is being really sincere. I know it's hard to believe but he really means what he says and would never do anything to hurt anyone. His behavior and mannerisms are exactly what makes being a member of our church great. We never discuss politics or controvercial subjects in church we do exactly as we know the savior would want us to. We would help anyone no matter their baggage. I'm a little more coarse than most in our church it's aweakness I have. Cut the Christians a break and don't always assume the worst, we really believe what we say it's not a facade, I promise.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, bro. It means a lot.
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Why not just pray until the answer comes, goldenpath? Isn't this how you arrived at the stunning new historical facts about Pre-Columbian American history?

You don't need to ask us why you tick people off, ask God? Besides, according to you and sneako, we are working for the Adversary and can't be trusted to tell the truth anyway.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you still feel the need to fabricate more discontent? How on Earth can you feel justified in doing this when I have done nothing to encourage it. You were being civil up to a point. Then, like the others, you began the rubbish of spearing people of faith and the practice thereof.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Once again, I am asking sincerely and you are accusing me with spreading discontent. You stated you understood God's plan because you prayed about it and believed the Book of Mormon.
  
  You speak of "revelations" by certain authorities. Why ask why you anger people, just pray like you said you did to arrive at your own personal religious beliefs. Does it work or not? If so, then why ask the heathens?
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your response.
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
huh? threadmaster? hmmmm......
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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all who have participated thus far in this worthwhile thread. It started in hopes of generating various critiques of my posts and comments to others in hopes of doing a better job in the future. However, it turned out to be a usual lynch mob. For all who come across this thread I humbly suggest that you take the time and view all posts from top to bottom. Evaluate all of the conversation. Not just mine - but all. This is important. Why? In this thread you will see what happens to those whose intents are good and who want to meet people on neutral terms in hopes of finding common ground. In doing those things to make this happen something stirs within the heart of the discontent and makes the perceptions of the individual skewed and dark.

I was charged with being a liar among many other distasteful terms. In the thread what I found was pure unadulterated intolerance toward my religious views on life. My fellow citizens of the world. With so many people "hailing" science as the "albeit" of things why have we not developed so far as to be individually tolerant, patient and understanding of others? Why? Forget about this group or that group being intolerant. Just you, or you or even you. It starts with the self. You - have the choice to be tolerant and patient in long-suffering. You!

I agree, my religious views are not well accepted and that is fine. I don't expect anyone to accept them blindly. My intent is not to convert but to extend a different point of view on aspects of life. There are many, though, who cannot stand the existence of the points of view that I have expressed. They have sought to shut me down by hammering my comments. Is this right in your mind? Is this true freedom? Is this mutual respect?

It is my intent to continue to preach tolerance to all nations and tongues although not popular. It is my hope that my words will reach the heart of at least one out there who needs these words. Not the doctrines of my religion but rather the doctrines of tolerance, goodwill and peaceful civilization.

We all love to write. There are a great many people here that are very compassionate and kind in their own lives that are of all sides of viewing life - with or without the acceptance of deity. Is it not possible to make this our common ground - that we love to express ourselves through the written word and that we have love and compassion for our fellow man? Is this so hard?

This insignificant post will, inevitably, stir the hosts of discontent once more, but I implore you to seek humility in all our lives. If we are so advanced scientifically then why not develop our personal tolerance for other trains of thought? We need not act as if we are neanderthals. It's wrong and unbecoming. I sincerely hope these words meet that one person who truly sees the outreach and sincerity of who I am and the urgent hope I have for tolerance in this world.

Thank you for your time and your association in this world.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Praise Heavenly Father and Jesus and I thank them for you and the other brothers and sisters who stand for the right. I love you and wish you and yours all the blessing and comfort you can handle. I say these things in Jesus name, Amen.
  
  We love you all and are here if you need our help.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there's a lot of feeling in this post.
  
  have a great night.
  
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
It is not the "tolerance of all nations" people are p*ssed about! You claim to believe in a horrible entity who loves and fosters "believers" then leaves little children to die. Not exactly a positive outcome for those children, yet your reason for them dying is so we can see it? :)You might have to see it to "open your heart" me, I don't want to hear that some god is helping anyone! Where? Did he find your car keys again? Much more important than the starving! Why wasn't a "sinner" and anti god person like me born in some war torn hole?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah. I never mentioned God in my spiritual life forum. I thought maybe I did but I looked and I didnt. As a Buddhist I dont believe in God. I believe in me.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you very much for your response.
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Onusonusposted 14 years ago
Goldenpath, as daunting a task as it can be to express yourself in open forum without withstanding some "Darts of adversity" so to speak, (realizing that religious beliefs will never be accepted by everyone of course,) It is my belief that you have done well in your communications with the sympathetic and the critical. I have seen people waste years bashing those of varying faiths; if a person decides to hate something they will undoubtedly find a way to justify their thoughts.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeh! Like keeping fairies out of it!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  May peace and comfort garnish your every footstep in life. Your kind words are much appreciated.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And another LDS, of course. And I'm disappointed you are afraid to answer my question, goldenpath.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your heartfelt response.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, thanks for your answer, it was the most honest of any you have given. And your blessing thing with the boy, well, I grew up watching Oral Roberts heal people who were crippled, blind, etc.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never said he was healed. Your discontent has blackened your heart. Because of that you wish to desecrate a solemn experience of another person. This, alone, is an atrocity far beyond the usual rhetoric spewed from the opposing side. In the name of the Father regardless of what babble comes next you shall not have peace in you soul for such reckless comments.
  
  You, have gone to a new level. I was sharing a sincere experience of mine. One that has weighed heavy upon my heart. You knew that and have openly put it to shame. This thread was for constructive criticism - not blatant discord.
  
  Please refrain from responding on this thread. It will serve no good purpose.
  
  Thank you.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your using the example of the blessing to try to prove you are a good guy stinks. Why even bring it up if you refuse to tell what happened afterward or even if he was helped at all?
  
  As for the curse you have apparently placed on me, that is a personal attack. Isn't that what you were complaining about others doing to you?
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hardly an attack. Hardly a curse. Most of all, hardly, compared to what has been placed upon me this day from all of you - and all of it because of my views.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You open this thread asking for it !
  aren't you satisfied ?
  No ?!
  
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You complain about hubbers being offensive and agresive to you, and you're replying in the same way.
  Now, Non believer's comments are attacks for you.
  So,what would you call your comment ?
  
  I'm still laughing!
  So thanks for the laughs !
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is unconsciounable to even compare the two reactions. You've all had me against some invisible ropes all day for no good reason at all.
  
  Laughing is good. I love the tattoos as well.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not all
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The reason is this thread.
  and as I said before, you knew perfectly well this was going to happen.
  So...what did you expect ?!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It didn't have to happen. It is possible to learn and get along without constant condescending tones. It was a golden opportunity for all to shut up and learn respect and restraint of emotions. I guess that respect for this platform and the opportunities afforded us in idea exchange are still at a very low level and priority to be taken seriously by the many here.
  
  We all could have learned something but instead you have picked out the odd color and threw darts at him. At least the Taliban were able to hit my heart. You've all got a long way to go to take me down.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are starting to sound crazy
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Starting to sound crazy? I cannot get my mind around his total inability to see the elitist crud he has written here!
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm Holding back. He sounds like a total Zealot. Self Righteous! To the extreme.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not interested in taking you down.
  Wouldn't waste my energy in that nonsense.
  
  You have a pride problem. You're not that important.
  
  I take this thread as a joke.Very entertaining. Thanks !
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think you understand his intention. He posted this to truely gain some knowledge about how a serious and sincere person could end up cornered like he is here. We really do believe and live our religion it's not a joke or a game. We really try to find opportunities to help those around us and all are always welcome in our church. We aren't even suppose to criticize other religions. I'm alittle more blue collar and believe me if I thought there was something phony going on I'd be the first rat off the ship. We really try to be as nice as we can, it's not an act, we really do care about you and we are not liars. If we say it we mean it. Try and be nice and if you just can't then please make your point and don't pile on, please.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have the same religion as goldenpath ?
  
  I don't like religion at all, when it's used to praise oneself in a subtle way. I don't like self-righteousness either ! Mormons tend to be that way.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well if we do thats no where near our intention, I promise you!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  GOD !! You're my first mormon friend !
  That merits a lot of laughs!
  
  Not laughing at you, but with you , my friend !
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can I interest you in a copy of the other testament of Christ!
  
  Now don't pick on me more than you guys normally do!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I pass !
  
  Good night sneak !!
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know you feel bad for him, Sneako. So do I, believe it or not, but this type of self-righteous behavior is what has caused so much torment in the world. I have no doubt he means well, but the ends have to be considered as well. Why not ask him to just quit, he's only getting in deeper.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're being very fair and I do apprciate it. I know our members well and we are completely confident in what we believe and that could interpreted as arogant on some level. We really mean to do good but we're human and we make mistakes. I know one thing if you asked a member for a hand they would trip over themselves to help. Thats why I just make snide remarks because I know most wouldn't understand how much I really believe. So I send off a salvo and move on. If you take the time get to know the religious here you will better understand how to work with us. It will also help clarify why we feel so stongly about different topics. You guys and gals are great! It's an honor and a pleasure to know you and spend time with you. We can argue but lets be friends when we're done.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't like people to be angry with me, sneako. And believe me, I know plenty of religious people who I love dearly. Most of my relatives are somewhat religious. Why, you can't throw a cat around here without hitting a baptist beside the head.
  
  I am not too good at hating people either.
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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
Just a side note of an experience to my day. I also work in a retail store during the day. Today, a lady and her child came into the store. I know them. The child was in a wheel chair and noticeably in pain. I had never seen him in a wheelchair before. The mother informed me that the child's hemophilia is acting up. My heart went out to this young child.

Later, as they came to my checkout lane I noticed the young boy was in tears with pain. During the transaction the mother asked if I had the time to administer a blessing to her child. After consulting with my Store Director he agreed to have me take them to a private room.

There we were, gathered in the name of Jesus Christ, pleading through prayer for relief and blessing to be upon this child. Through the hands I placed upon his head, this child received a blessing, by authority, of love and mercy from his Heavenly Father.

I dare not explain what was said during the blessing or what happened afterwards. These things are too sacred and precious to discuss. However, I am grateful for the experience I share with this young boy and his mother. It has been a heart-wrenching situation for me all day.

I do have a history with this boy. A few years ago he almost died in a fire. His mother called me early one morning and asked if I would meet her at the hospital Emergency Room. It was there I saw the boy unconscious and burned while covered with black. That was one of the most solemn instances I have ever had in the exercise and discharge of my duty and responsibility as an authorized holder of the priesthood. To place one hand upon the boy's head and the other hand clasping the mother's that child received a blessing that was sealed upon his head forever and ever.

I just wanted to share this solemn experience with you. It made the day special to me.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That turned me stomach, I nearly vomited. Did you tell the child your true intentions, that his plight was necessary and had a purpose, and that the purpose was a test of your faith?
  
  Twisted and sick.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is how you have made it sound Goldenpath. Just letting you know.
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  angelrose18posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I must be reading a different post than you did, because from what I read he was simply trying to describe the situation and explain how special the experience was. But maybe you just don't understand things like that. I don't know.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I do understand things like that. But, it's not as simplistic as you assert.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wow, i din't know you were a priest. sounds like you had quite a day all right. i hope today goes a little better for you, forum wise.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago

This thread is a joke !
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Leave.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think the problem is this just seems really insincere.
  
  Pay no attention to the faults of others,
  things done or left undone by others.
  Consider only what by oneself is done or left undone.
  
  Buddha
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It tastes like Buddha
  But it's not, it's
  
  Parkay
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why ? I love a good laugh !
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Be nice.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi sneak !
  I'm being 'nice' !
  I'm laughing !
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Tantrum, how you doing and hows that amazing girl of yours?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fine thanks! I will e-mail you soon.
  She's in Australia
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sweet! I'll look forward to it!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  She will need to be careful down here Tantrum, you could step of the edge of the planet. Seriously hope she likes the heat!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  She's liking it alright !
  I'm sure you're going to find out soon !
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Was there ever any doubt? We were all just making things up, right GP. Gotcha Tantrum.
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down, I convulsed with laughter. Someday I intend on reading it.
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
Hey guys and gals, do me a favor and be nice, please.
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Now you have gone too far! You may believe your "special powers" and the "god" magic you have, so obviously you and this little boy have your god doing miracles while the 200 million kids die in poverty with nothing to eat. This is megalomania!
Your god can do nothing and has done nothing. Thousands of stories like yours, not even one proven in 2000 years!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stop trashing me over something you have no knowledge about. You obviously hold nothing sacred. That experience was sacred to me and should not be trashed even if you don't agree with it.
  
  Your only comeback and argument always revolves around the starving children. I have explained charity to you and the efforts we engage in their relief. Until you are willing to give everything you have for the relief of the precious ones please don't exile me and my faith into some group who cares nothing for them.
  
  Total blackness.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You could maybe feed them off your golden plates
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hokey thats not funny, c'mon back-off alittle.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks man I owe you one!
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, You don't owe me
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Wow, Desert Storm, Taliban, blessings, revelations, priesthood, good deeds, where does the references to yourself end. Delusion is something you are certainly leaving out.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  C'mon! Please show Golden some Hub love there room here for all of us. Oh, by the way, your atheist/liberal nonsense far exceeds the limits of dumb, I wouldn't talk too much!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The serpent fits well with the strikes.
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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
It's late here for me and I need not waste time re re re re re re explaining my points to you all. Continuing this debate would only serve to supply your agendas to bring me to your common level. That's wrong and exhibits little integrity. Enjoy your evening guys and gals. Tomorrow is another day of hope for the world and personal progress for those who strive toward such a goal. Obviously the many here are not ready for the jump toward peace, goodwill, tolerance and understanding. Perhaps someday, when the dust settles in those lives they will be humbled enough to view life in clearer tones and broader scopes.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We "of little integrity" will be here waiting.
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  hamstersmessiahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  poor guy may be a healer and he wants to give the credit to some invisible entity that someone wrote about in a book. pathetic!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If one claims prayer and miracles for themselves cos they are special, it sort of lets you know what "god" thinks of the rest of mankind.
  When I see little kids dying of cancer, I wonder why the prayers would not work for them. If prayer worked, all the good atheists and other non believers would start praying in unison!
  Funny how their god can do miracles yet made humans with no sense of logic and no common sense either!
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In Buddhism we do what is called Metta meditation which is in fact a very specific form of love -- a caring for another independent of all self-interest -- and thus is likened to one's love for one's child or parent. Understandably, this energy is often difficult to describe with words; however, in the practice of Metta meditation, one recites specific words and phrases in order to evoke this "boundless warm-hearted feeling." The strength of this feeling is not limited to or by family, religion, or social class. Indeed, Metta is a tool that permits one's generosity and kindness to be applied to all beings and, as a consequence, one finds true happiness in another person's happiness, no matter who the individual is.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe in a similar understanding, but coming from psychology. I just finished telling my 20 year old to look in this place for this part of self. He has a strongly working power that attracts what he needs, he has always had it, and when it weakens, we talk, I listen he learns and so do I.
  
  How we think and believe is so deep beneath consciousness sometimes we need to go back inside and do some good homework!
  Kids seem to be good at it!
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because they haven't been so polluted yet. Still some innocence, curiosity and wonder. Not cynical and jaded. A little magic left.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have been dealing with 3 little ones for a while now, eldest of the terrifying ones is now 6. They are amazing!All my kids are doing good, but the little ones are amazing. They understand and speak like the previous generation but gain concepts years younger again. My eldest is 43, my youngest grand children almost 5 year old twin girls. They are the most fun to listen to, because their are no limitations in their minds. Like a science lesson for me really. I adore them all!
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hamstersmessiahposted 14 years ago
i wouldn't laugh at goldenpath. you know i had a really bad toothache and i used my finger from the 1800's, which is my left index finger, and pressed my heal button, which is my belly button, and after applying about 10 seconds of pressure i had relief from my toothache. this really works. you should try it!
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  hamstersmessiahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh that reminds me, my hamster friend david has a toothache and i forgot to tell him how to use his heal button... brb.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
It's not about understanding ! It's about your attitude.
How come I can be sneak's friend, and I could never be yours ???
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
What we are is the result of what we have thought,
is built by our thoughts, is made up of our thoughts.
If one speaks or acts with an impure thought,
suffering follows
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Sneaker you are a weird one!
I like that! Anyone who loves kids and dogs has gotta be OK!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well thank you I think. You're pretty damn good yourself! I respect your views and I respect you!
  
  Good night folks!
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Namaste
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have a great sleep sneaker. Same place same channel?
  This thread reminds me of "Pinky & the brain"
  "What do we do tomorrow brain?"
  "The same thing we do every day Pinky! Try to take over the world! "
  goodnight sneak.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Good night earnest !
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you off to bed Tantrum? Or as one of your loyal subjects, must I go to bed now? It is only 4.28pm here!
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Goodnight tantrum
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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hamstersmessiahposted 14 years ago
i don't know this goldenpath fellow but from the looks of the response i'd say he was begging the question. maybe it's just me but this whole thread looks masochistic.
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suraj78posted 14 years ago
Namaste how are you?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am well as I hope you are as well.
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
Hey! Where's Goldenpath?
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
Buddhism is a mixture of psychology, compassion, generosity, lovingkindness, and morality. And the belief that it all comes from within us.
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
11:31 pm here
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
That is so cool. I am 36, no kids, and never been married.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You soon know if your ready or not. You need to start with normal nappies then work your way up to three at once with the flu and diarrhoea, with changes all through the night.
  I swear it can only be born with love!
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Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago
Goldenpath, you are a kind, gentle man, but you do preach an awful lot. Kindness and preaching are still a bit much to take.

Q, you are a problem child. You are apparently malicious and a know-it-all, hung up in your own ego. In all the time you've been here, it appears your only purpose is spout off in forums. Whether or not you are actually right is so buried by the venom you regularly spout that many of us just don't care what you say. It's the poison of your words that shows through most.

You apparently have no intention of ever writing a hub. So, really, what IS your purpose in lurking and posting such ugliness in the forums?

Is there no good news you can contribute?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is the poison of religion that sparks my words, Daniel. The hatred and intolerance spouted by believers such as goldenpath. Haven't you noticed that yet? Where ya been?
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've been reading all along, and notice that your poison is as vehement or more than the poison of the religionists. I'm not sure that's such a good thing.
  
  Q, really, I have no beef with you. Perhaps I was overly direct toward you, and if that's so, I apologize. But I don't think that two types of poison are beneficial to anyone. That's all. I don't disagree with your insights, but I do find them hard to swallow laiden with such hate. I don't see that it's any better than the religionists' hate and intolerance.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Daniel, while I agree with you that two poisons are not beneficial, there is a clear distinction. People like goldenpath spew hatred and intolerance to other people while the rest of us are condemning the very ideologies that have taken control of his mind, not to him particularly. Goldenpath has been indoctrinated into a dangerous cult, his views have demonstrated that. He is most likely a very pleasant individual, as we all are in our lives. The difference is that he becomes a raving madman simply due to his cult indoctrination.
  
  I, for one, will not sit idly by while these cults destroy us. This is a matter of saving mankind, and it needs to be taken very seriously. I cannot and will not pull punches when it comes to that. And for that, I apologize.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then I will agree to disagree with you, Q. And that is said keeping respect for you as well. Waging war to win peace, tolerance and acceptance seems pointless to me. However, I do respect you.
  
  I don't feel threatened by cults. I'm responsible for my life, not an organization, religion, cult or political entity. So I try to live independently of them, for the most part (in as much as it is possible).
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's fine for you, Daniel. But, I and my colleagues are constantly threatened by cults. Our work is spit on and ridiculed by the believers who spew their hatred and disdain at us. We see our research dollars getting flushed down the drain because some religious nutjobs believe the research to be against their god.
  
  You may be safe and unfettered by these cults, but we are not. And, I am not going to sit idly by while they destroy everything we have achieved.
  
  They have no respect for us whatsoever and consider us evil, and you say I'm supposed to sit here and respect that?
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  WriteAngledposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To what research are you referring, Q? As a scientist, the question interests me.
  reply report
  62
  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What work do you do, Q, that is so threatened?
  
  Who is truly "out to get you?"
  reply report
75
WriteAngledposted 14 years ago
"Of course, he is ignoring those calls in favor of pleading for how polite and courteous he is to everyone, just like the snakeoil salesman."

Q, goldenpath never claimed to be polite and courteous. It is others who are saying this about him. I do not agree with his beliefs at all. However, I do admire his conduct on the forums. He says what he believes, he responds to others without venom. You may hate what he preaches, but is this a reason to hate him personally? I happen to think he started this thread from genuine bewilderment and personal anguish. He invited criticism and has indeed received it. However, it is possible to criticise and debate in a spirit of openness and friendship. That is more likely to encourage people to give consideration to the opposing arguments.
reply report
1. 54
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again, goldenpath can wrap up his hatred and intolerance in a beautiful arrangement made to look the belle of ball, so to speak. But, the content of his words are not beautiful and that is something some here don't seem to understand.
  reply report
  61
  Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is it specifically* that goldenpath does to infuriate you to the point of being obsessed with him and stalking him all over the forums to insult and degrade him?
  
  Please be brief and leave the melodramatics out of it.
  
  *as in give a specific example or examples
  reply report
2. 0
  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're way too reasonable! I bow to your greatness!
  reply report

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