Prosperity Preachers

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   Mamelodyposted 15 years ago

   There's been a recent criticism of preachers who seem to be multi billionaires and yet they still solicit money from people. Preachers like Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, TD Jakes, TBN network etc are now commonly known as "Prosperity preachers preaching prosperity gospel"
   
   Now I've read the Bible and according to it Jesus instructed the 12 disciples to "go into all the world and preach the gospel"
   
   Now now where in that sentence does it say "go into all the world and solicit every penny people have so you can enjoy the high life"
   
   Now in the beginning I was used to be a devoted follower of these preachers. But every time I gave my money, I found myself in deeper debt to the point where I couldn't afford simple bills like water and electricity. I mean I gave out of guilt because they kind of made me feel that if I didn't "tithe" I would be broke forever and would never enter heaven.
   
   When I decided to stop sponsoring their so called "ministries" I found my life was back on track. I mean I still got bills to pay but I can at least cope and enjoy a holiday or two.
   
   Now according to the letter Paul wrote to Timothy, he states that in the last days men will be "lovers of money rather than lovers of God" and "fierce haters of good" (NIV version)
   
   Now when I look at all these prosperity preachers, they are getting richer everyday and their congregation don't seem to be enjoying the prosperity they preach about.
   
   So I ask are prosperity preachers the "false prophets" that the bible warns us about??

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      h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I do know of some in the ministry who do not get csught up in the money of it. James Dobson from Focus on the Family has a modest wage then has the money from his books,etc going to charity. All Rich Mullens, a christian musician, also had modest wages and the rest given to charity.
      The prosperity preachers motive should be questioned. The scriptures they preach apply to them also. Holly

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      (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No, you are the suckers Barnum told us about, who are born every minute.

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         Mamelodyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         

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      Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      It's hard to say exactly.
      I do know that many of them have become "showmen" (celebrities, kinda) instead of humble preachers of the Gospel.

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      goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      In Micah 3:11-12 it states the immense danger to not only preachers for hire, and reward, but also the cursings they bring upon their followers.  This is one of the reasons why, as a minister, I have a separate full time job.  Our entire ministry is without compensation.  I agree with everything you've said.  If one is called to the ministry it is a "calling" and not a job.  Where the uplifting of souls is concerned no payment should ever be demanded or even expected.  By so doing you only curse yourself and those whom you lead to the same destruction.
      
      As a side note I would exhort all to stay clear of any and all television evangelists.  The root reason for doing so is for personal gain.  Prayer is a solemn and personal experience and should never be flowered up to exuberance as openly displayed on the tube.  Obvious red flag.  Confessions and pleas from the trouble hearted are also a solemn and confidential occasion and should never be exposed on television.  Another red flag.  The Adversary can also manifest itself through "healings" of others in order to deceive.  Does anyone truly think that a televised "healing" is truly of God?  Absolutely not.  God will not be mocked in such a way.
      
      All the things that these television entertainers flower up on the tube are exaggerated representations of deeply personal, confidential and spiritual things that take place in people's lives.  They should never, under any circumstances, be shown or viewed on television.  Make no mistake these are all red flags and are massively damaging to the spirit of those who blindly follow.

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         earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Try telling these nutters that fall on the floor it is all bunk. They are just as adamant about their experience as any religionists.
         I don't know how all the god botherers don't see that this is just an extension of the lunatic beliefs in the bible or quoran!
         These guys quotes are straight from the "good" book itself.

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         (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I see little difference between you and them, goldenpath. The same red flags you see in them are similar to the ones we see in you. The phrases "massively damaging and blindly follow" are quite relevant as well.
         
         You just described yourself. Well done.

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      Hxprofposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yep-they serve their own appetites.  Peter and Paul warned us that teachers would come that would use us for gain-monetary gain, and would lead others to follow the licentuousness.
      
      Sound doctrine is hardly taught beyond the basics in most churches/ministries.  There are ministries teaching sound doctrine, but they are few right now.

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      Tom Cornettposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Money is the name of their little god.
      A cursed blessing is far worse than no blessing.

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      SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What you hear about is what makes the news. You hardly ever hear about those who do good things. There is no drama in their stories.
      
      Anyone who preaches prosperity preaches against the Word of God. They do it for money, fame, and notoriety. They want to be seen and heard. Jesus healed the sick and told many, "Do not tell anyone." This is what the mindset of followers of God should be. Do not notice me, but just notice the One I follow.

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         mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         SirDent I honor your words of boldness and truly understand your Standings on prosperity preaching

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         (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Yet, you tell everyone of Jesus and worship him. Seems hypocritical.

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            SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            It would be hypoctitical if I asked for donations constantly or I solicited money in some way from others. One thing I never do.

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               (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Doesn't your church ask for donations?

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                  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  They allow people to make offerings.

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                     (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, how silly of me.

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                        SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        You want to make something into something it is not. To allow people to offer what they want is different than soliciting donations. Any child of third grade education can see that.
                        
                        Beggars on the street ask for alms, but those who don't ask and are given to anyway recieved offerings. How ignorant can a person be to not see the difference.
                        
                        By the way just so you know, we have given food out many times, we have given away clothing to the needy. How about your starving children? Have you fed them yet?

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                           (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           So, passing around the plate is not soliciting donations?
                           
                           
                           
                           Atheists everywhere are working hard on attempting to feed the millions of starving children everywhere since your god is spending so much time attending to your personal needs and the needs of other good Christians.
                           
                           Maybe, your god should have thought through his statement before handing it out:
                           
                           "Go forth and multiply."

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                              SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              We don't use plates. We have those big contractor size wheelbarrows, (4 of them in fact) and we have to use them twice for each service.
                              
                              Atheists are feeding starving kids? Christians been doing it for centuries, millenia even.
                              
                              I am also glad that you fell for population control. If I recall correctly it started out with the desire to sterilize all blacks in the US. You are in a great group of people.

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   Faybe Bayposted 15 years ago

   My brother belongs to a very prosperous church. It does not prosper by asking people who cannot give to give. His church has prospered by giving to the members as to their need.
   They used to say, at collection time, "If you are in a position to give, then give out of your increase, but If you have a need please put that in the plate instead." There were notes in every seat. They would further state "If your need is small, just gas or dinner money, then take from the plate as it passes you by according to your need."
   
   People gave and took and put their notes in and the church just kept getting bigger. Now they have centers for teenage mothers and youth center... Too much to go on about. You may not see them on TV, and if you see them on line I am sure you will be able to tell. It is a hands on church. They know each other's needs and make sure to help each other each according to his ability to give, or his need.

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      Dame Scribeposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Wow now that's something that should be more widely known. A place of give and take.

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      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      That is a good system, and makes sense, I wish more people would do this sort of thing.

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         Ohmaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Ditto If I could find a church like this one They might even persuade me to join. LOL 

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            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Me too! As long as they don't have any prerequisites about a god.

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      Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry I lost the thread. The link to my brother's church and it's on line feed for Sunday service is on the hub I did about my brother the musician. I believe they have three churches now, to look at the web site.

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   I wonder what motivates the givers in their giving, when they give to these "Ministries"?
   It wouldn't be the deisre (or greed) of becoming wealthy by doing so themselves,....would it? :? 

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      Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      good salesman can sell snow to an eskimo.

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   Lady_Eposted 15 years ago

   Interesting Post
   
   Some are genuine and need partners to pay for the broadcasts which are aired. That costs losts of money. (Milllions)
   
   Some, sadly however are not genuine. 
   
   Secondly, not all of them are prosperity preachers. Creflo is very rounded and emphasises a lot on living a pure life. Benny Hinn's ministry focuses on Healing.
   
   The good thing is you are not forced to give them money.
   Its a choice.

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      Disappearingheadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Benny Hinn has demonstrated that he is a false prophet, saying God has said when God has not said. Creflo Dollar is just a prostitute to the God of hard cash.

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   Onusonusposted 15 years ago

   I love this one
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI

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      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      How high would his insurance be? Some of those people are gettin on a bit!

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   Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

   Mamelody,
   
   Here is how you will know:
   
   a. are all members of the congregation prospering in the understanding of the Creator.
   b. is the organization using he funds 100% for the members of the congregation then for the community then for the world.
   c. do all believers actually share all things (possessions) in common
   d. are the people prospering -actually, not mystic(the hype aka oooh ahhh) or literary (quoting scripture)- in the Word.
   
   watch closely and guard your heart.
   when the fruit comes, you will know without a doubt.

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   sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago

   The Holy Spirit rewards us for our gifts. I always liked the feeling of anonimously giving it made me feel good and there's nothing wrong with feeling good!

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   qwarkposted 15 years ago

   Mame:
   it's been a long time since seminary and, thankfully, I can no long quote scripture off-hand, but I seem to remember it says in there somewhere (paraphrase) ..that it would be harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle...or sumthin' like that...:-) Did I get it pretty close?   :-)

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   Poppa Bluesposted 15 years ago

   I've never cared for those ministers. I knew one personally that had his own church. Now he's a good man but he made a damn good living as a minister which to me seems a little hypocritical. All his kids and grand kids went to study tennis in the Bradenton tennis camp in Florida... his family worked in the ministry as well video taping the show and of course weddings and other events. For me something gets lost in the message when you realize it's just a business and these people are doing really, really well!

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      goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You hit it on the head!  I couldn't have said it better.  That's the danger in it.  When you mix compensation with faith you will inevitably wind up with corruption.  As a minister, I am satisfied holding down a separate full time job to receive compensation for.  I could never take a penny for trying to help someone else in a spiritual way.

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         (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Money has to come from somewhere, it doesn't grow on trees. As a minister, you will accept donations to keep your church going, yes? How is that different from the tv versions?

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            goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Finally, thank you for a sincere question without the hammer tones.  The difference is that I don't preach for money.  The tithes and donations offered are not to support me or any broadcast.

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               (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               But, you get donations just like the tv guys. It does support you. If it didn't you wouldn't have anywhere to preach.
               
               What's the difference between broadcasting in-house to the flock or broadcasting over the airways to a much bigger congregation? Some people are shut-ins and cannot venture to churches, hence they can watch it from the comfort of their home.

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                  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  The difference is in what's done with the donations.  In the LDS Church every penny is accounted for for every person who tithes and donated.  They meet with the Bishop every year and get their final accounting of what they offered and exactly where those offerings went.
                  
                  Tithes go to support the Church in building temples, meetinghouses, Church grounds and programs.  Fast Offerings are strictly for the support and aid of the sick and afflicted and those who absolutely need financial help in tough circumstances.
                  
                  They have options for several other donations as well.  The key, though, is that every penny is accounted for and the members know where their pennies are going.  Absolutely none of it goes to support any of the ministers.

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                     (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     It all goes to support the ministers, you said it yourself, "Tithes go to support the Church in building temples, meetinghouses, Church grounds and programs"
                     
                     I'm sure those tv guys have great accountants, too.

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                        goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Show me, EXACTLY, where I've said it supports the ministers.  I've specifically said it supports temples, buildings, grounds, programs and maintenance of the Church - NOT the ministry itself.  Never have I even implied this.

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                        Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        (Q),
                        Noone in the LDS ministry gets paid, My Bishop is a full time Welder at the local shipyard some of his his counsilers work there, our gosple doctrine teacher is an engineer, etc., we do all the church stuff for free.

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                           (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           No, you don't do it free, you take in donations that keeps your religious machine functioning.

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                              Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              I don't take donations, sombody else does, but not me, and they don't make a living off of it, they give it to charity,
                              (you know all the hungry kids you like to drone on about?)
                              They build chaples and temples so people can exercise their GOD GIVEN RIGHT to practice their religion, stuff like that.
                              
                              So what percentage of your anual income do you give to charity?

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                                 (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 That's exactly what I was talking about, stuff like that. You take in money to keep your cult machine running, the tv guys take in money to keep their cult machine running. No difference.

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                                    Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    Nope theres a big difference, noone in my church makes a dime of personal wealth.

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                                 (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 Tithing is about Mormons becoming gods themselves, paying a full and honest amount in order to reach the highest kingdom of heaven, not about actually helping others.
                                 
                                 "D&C 119: 3-6
                                 
                                 And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people.
                                 
                                 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
                                 
                                 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.
                                 
                                 And I say unto you, if my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion unto me, that my statutes and my judgments may be kept thereon, that it may be most holy, behold, verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of Zion unto you."

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                                    Onusonusposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    Didn't see anything about becoming a God in that passage.

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    poetlorraineposted 15 years ago

    we all have a gut feeling about things like this...... it is obvious that some are ripping us off.  I thought this was a very good question for debate.

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    Disappearingheadposted 15 years ago

    In answer to the question, I would say yes, these prosperity teachers are amongst the false prophets. Their teaching, though having some small connection with scripture is wholly inflated to enable them to raise a lot of money for their ministries. Their teachning is more sop to the American dream rather than serving God.
    
    Whilst the apostle Paul made it clear that those in full time ministry are entiltled to make a living from the ministry, these preachers are just peddlars of the gospel with their huge conferences, sales of books and DVDs etc. They see themselves as CEOs of large cooproations so justify huge salaries for themselves.
    
    They stand up their with their $5000 suits, botox grins, sunbed orange faces, robbing the widows and orphans with eire lies and half truths, perverting the gospel to a money making scheme. Where does all the money go?
    
    Meanwhile mugs are doling out the cash to them week by week in fear that God will curse them if they don't tithe. Hoping against hope that one day their divine lottery numbers will come up and they finally get a share in the prosperity.
    
    I'll get off my soapbox now as I need to go to work.

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    skyfireposted 15 years ago

    Charity comes with a catch of conversion, delusion and belief defense(by taking more people in group).

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    I'll bet they are few, what constitutes "good doctrine" bigger threats?

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    mdawson17posted 15 years ago

    WOW what a great topic for a true concerning subject and epidemic! Pastor Haggai with Corner Stone church had asked many of his congregation to sell their homes and their cars because God had lead him they should in a vision! Saying this he lives in a multi-million dollar home and drives a BMW and has five body guards./
    
    However the ones that sold their homes and have nothing has asked the church for help and they are told no!
    
    I guess I would have to say this is a preacher lining his own pockets with Gold.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Did Hagee do that?
       I stopped watching him when he started going off-kilter a few years ago....

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          SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I stopped watching him when I kept hearing him say, "Buy the Book!" Not talking of the Bible but a book he wrote hismelf.

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       Mamelodyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       OMG he did that?? Thats soo lame... worse off are people who fall for that...

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Can we watch the video onusonus put up one more time?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI
    
    Ah! That's better!

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    They all go the same way, just a matter of time before those hyped egos fall flat.
    These are the megalomanic loons that religion creates.
    "I have god, you don't" See how much power I have?
    
    I think this guy is one of the best examples of how gullible religionists can be.

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       Disappearingheadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You're preaching to the converted on these forums earnesthub.

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          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe on this one.

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