Jesus Christ Fact or Fiction

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mdawson17posted 15 years ago
I think many hubbers will be shocked at the fact that I would have posted such a thread!

As I am a devout Christian.

However recently after doing research I have been coming to the relization that not all of what is said in the bible could be fact esspicailly in regards to the subject of Jesus Christ.

I am wondering who can (If anyone) can provide concreate evidence that everything written about Jesus Christ is fact.

Or if after years of translation the facts about Jesus Christ and his earthly ministry has been corrupted by the various changes in the translations of the bible?
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  Abe Normalposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  WELL SAID
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is none to offer, unfortunately. No evidence other than what is mentioned in the bible exists about Jesus. In fact, the bible contains quite a few errors in it's historical accounts, hence we can't even use it as a reliable source.
  
  In all likelihood, Jesus was as mythical as every other god.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not true. Anne Rice is writing a series of books on the early life of Jesus. Much of what she writes validates the existence and greater meaning of..........
  
  Oh wait, they're novels. Crap, I thought I had something...
  
  nevermind
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lol.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As a Christian we believe by Faith that the Bible is the word of God. We believe that God is Love, God is Truth. Since the Bible is the word of God and God doesn't lie, then we accept that God's Word the Holy Bible, although written by man was recorded through the power of the Holy Spirit, God also. With regards to Jesus could you be more specific that which you think is non-factual? This is a very broad statement of generality. Can you substantiate the non-factual points and if so how and where.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Notice that when you begin a statement with "we believe by Faith" and then follow it up as if it were reality by using circular and fallacious logic to support the statement, you'll find that you already have answered your own questions.
  
  No charge.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is your definition of faith?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The same as everyone's Dent - you saying it is from "proof" lol or "evidence" LOL is not going to change anything.
  
  Face it - your beliefs are garbage. It is not even like they make you a better person.
  
  Unless you think "judgmental hypocrite" is a good person?
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Have you been viewing yourself in the mirror again?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No Dent. But it wouldn't hurt of you looked in one occasionally. Is that what Jeebus told you to do when he said "turn the other cheek"? Dear me.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know my shortcomings. I know I am not perfect. You on the other hand in your own condescending way believe you are perfect.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Can Q answer a question himself? I remember sneakor accusing Q of being you and vice versa. Makes sense to me now.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark is free to answer questions posed to me just as I am free to answer questions posed to him. You're free to believe he and I are one and the same if that helps you in some way.
  
  The fact of the matter is that you'll find consistency in non-believers answers as opposed to believers who continue to disagree vehemently against each other trying to figure out their own doctrines. That may be why we all appear similar to you.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I personally do not define words that are already well defined. Do you not have access to some dictionaries?
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Knowing the inability of man to comprehend and translate His "truth" from generation to generation, and knowing that man is capable of distorting the truth to fit his own selfish gain, WHY would an all knowing God give humans the task of writing his thoughts? This is a scam, and any person not afraid of superstitious nonsense will accept it as what it is. Garbage.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You guys are really funny....to say that you are a devout Christian and then to question the biblical account of Jesus Christ is inconsistent. A Christian brings his or her understanding in line with the Word of God.They do not require God to prove His Word to them.
  
  You either believe or you don't, you either seek revelation of the Word from God, or you enter into these pointless discussions with the Hubpages atheists and wind up right where you started.
  
  It is easier to minister to those who have never believed than to reason with one who says they devoutly believe. Christianity is absolute, God is real, Jesus is Lord and the Holy Spirit is still moving.
  
  Certainly there are a lot of questions and misunderstandings of the Word of God. We demand answers and explanations so that we can get a better personal understanding.....but when you allow the Word of God to be the definitive answer to all things, God will show you in His Word what you are looking for, He will guide to historical accounts that are not religious, He will provide you with sources of knowledge and information that also is not religious, but which proves the events of the Word and the life and times of Jesus Christ.
  
  We just get so cocky and arrogant....I think it is because of the pressure of the unbeliever....and we, believers, turn around and don't want to be out-talked, out-reasoned or out-done. When, it ain't even about the unbelievers ridiculous spouting.
  
  It is about Jesus who had enough power and love you you to humble himself and become like His creation. He proved a point that we'll never get.... Less is more....
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  Challah1202posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am afraid I look for "concrete evidence" too. I find that Jesus calls for faith not evidence. He told Thomas that it was good that he believed, but he blessed those who would believe without seeing evidence. Paul urged us to walk "by faith, not by sight."
  
  When you get to the bottom line, all of life is faith based. Your actions are all controlled by what you believe will happen. Faith is not optional, only what we choose to put faith in. I choose Jesus.
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  cromestringsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When we say Jesus Christ, It refers to Christ Consciousness just Like Buddha. So when you read all those stories referring to the Consciousness then stories are beautiful.
  
  If you think in Earthy nature then it will be difficult to digest.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is "Earthy nature" in terms of thinking?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To have an earthly nature IS to be/have consciousness.
  Any awareness (consciousness) is of thought, perception, perspective, opinion, intellect. All pertain to the psyche, simple or complex.
  
  That which is beyond consciousness, Grace & Faith, being free of all elements of necessity. Indeed, the Breathe is without need and provides life to all things and is all things.
  
  The Christ (or Anointing) is that Grace. Transforming the human being in body, psyche and spirit into a complete entity; removing the blindness and assumption of need.
  
  Where there is no need, there is no conflict of thought;
  a fullness of enlightenment, peace, assurance and infinite ability.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm envisioning a roomful of chimps and typewriters.
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  Paul Wingertposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus' biographers never met him and didn't write the first word about him til 30 after he died based on hearsay. Let alone whether he existed or not. He couldof been bases on several people kiinda like the stories of Robin Hood. Trying to quote an exact phrase by someone who has been dead 30 years if an impossibilty,
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  Cly Walshposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is no contemporary historical evidence that Jesus existed as a mortal or otherwise.
  
  In several of the earliest editions of Mark, held widely as the first of the canonical gospels - there isn't even a resurrection or virgin birth.
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Ohmaposted 15 years ago
Since I am far from being a devout Christian myself I will not offer an opinion on your opening other than to say that you are a very brave soul to open yourself up like that and be willing to subject yourself to the inevitable onslaught.
I also think that it speaks highly to who you are as a person and a Representative of Christianity, people who claim to know all the right answers on this topic scare the crap out of me.
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you
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Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years ago
MDawson,

First the message that has been given to us, by the man or concept or story or what ever Jesus Christ is/was is a very beautiful and profound gift. That is the most important thing to remember.

second, I am not in possession of 'proof' either way.

I believe that not everything in the bible is true and I must admit to myself that Jesus' story may not be everything we have been led to believe. If the entire Jesus saga turns out to be untrue...we still have God.

Jesus Christ, Fact or Fiction...or somewhere in between...

Mikel
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
as there are a lot of similarities between Jesus & Krishna, I think all what we know about Jesus Christ is a myth or is copied from Krishna's story
For example:

Jesus and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God. Both were sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man
Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity
Their adoptive human father was a carpenter.
Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent.
Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star.
Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna's parents stayed in Mathura.
Jesus and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted.
Jesus was called "the lion of the tribe of Judah." Krishna was called "the lion of the tribe of Saki."
Both claimed: "I am the Resurrection."
Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine.
Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured "all manner of diseases."
Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead.
Both selected disciples to spread his teachings.
Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies.
Both were known for their ascensions into heaven.

Too many coincidences
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
@ MDawson I can only express an opinion. I do not believe that translation of scripture is but approx. 10% of the problem with scripture. I believe the problems arose when everyone started interpretating these scripture.
When the bible is studied; I say studied instead of read because it takes much much study in order to see past all of the interpretations that have been interjected into the faith.
In my opinion the lies that are taught about the prophetic messages are to blame for the precieved necessity for PRIVATE interpretation.
If our bibles are printed in English; we need to learn how to read english. The answers are there when we look beyond our own understanding of what we are about to read.

To interpretate the prophesy is changing the clearly stated message. Hideing the truth as to what Jesus was teaching.
One truth can not have 100's of diffrent meanings.

Thank you for this question.
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have answered this very well for me. I appreciate you taking the time and answering this question is such a factual way.
  
  It helped me out tremendously.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Except the bible was not written in English.
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
Guy who managed to walk on water got killed on wooden panel, is this a fact of son of god ?
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
You guys are only going to hurt yourselves trying to think. Just go with the first thought that pops into your head!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If I did, it wouldn't turn out well for you
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Ron I bet you're a real badass!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, just a smartass.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that why you never bother?
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well my first thought is Jesus is just normal human who got hyped more than celebrity sex tapes and got status of "son of god" from deluded people when in fact everyone knows that he can't even managed to survive on wooden panel yet everyone claims he will save us all.
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Mamelodyposted 15 years ago
A devoted Christian should be able to have evidence that Jesus is fact. I take it you are one of the many people the bible describes in Hosea 4:6

"my people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge"

Honestly if you claim to be a devoted Christian you should be ashamed of asking such a question...
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  MrTooreeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are so right. If anyone says that they are a Christian, then they have asked JESUS to come into their heart. And if JESUS lives in them, then they shouldn't have to wonder if HE is fact or fiction. That's what faith is all about. It's the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. If you're a believer - then you believe. It's that simple.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to be defining faith as the absence of reason.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A reasonable person understands that all things proceed from faith. A persons mom and dad had faith that doing what they do would give them a child....it was faith before it was fact.
  
  Some may say it was trial and error, but that is not so in the strictest sense because if they had no faith that they would conceive, there would be no point to make the attempt to conceive.
  
  Faith-Belief that something is before the fact
  
  Reason-Gathering together of facts with or without drawing a conclusion
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then, it is all about wishful thinking and nothing else? There are really no gods, just a belief in them, yes?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, there is a God.....
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Show him to me, then.
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  MrTooreeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Seek HIM and you will find HIM !!! Don't seek HIM and you won't find HIM !!! It's that simple !!!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Somebody has got to go hunting or no one is eating wild Game.
  Unless it runs out in front of a car and jumps on it..
  
  God seldom does that... But ... when HE does come a hunting for ya....you aren't going to get away. He sometimes does do that. If he does
  Nobody is going to convince you that he didn't.
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  MrTooreeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're right !!! I messed up. Sorry !!!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be sorry, you were correct
  When we don't want to see something we won't.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Been there, done that. Nada, Zilch. So, to make things simple and easy for you to convince me, show him to me. Can you or not?
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LisaGposted 15 years ago
If you are really a Christian, you don't seem to have much faith.

Christians live by faith. You cannot prove everything in the bible, and since you cannot prove everything in the bible, that does not mean it is not true.

Too many people today want proof of this and that in the bible. The bible is the divine Word of God. That is something, as a Christian you must believe. If you don't, then you are not worthy to be called Christian.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This type of intollerance is one reason the religion is dying a well-deserved death. The millions of interpretations of "true" Christianity can't all be true.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, then let "religion".... "die a well-deserved death", because what remains will be pure Faith in Christ as per the Bible's words, because true Faith isn't a "religion" anyway, except as described in the Bible.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And the Earth does not really have 4 corners...
  
  Except as described in the bible.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Many things in the Bible are symbolic, or used to describe things in ways that common-sense people can understand them from that vein.
  
  Such interest from someone who doesn't believe the Bible! That interest from non-Believers never ceases to amaze me.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm also greatly interested in what makes mass-murderers tick, but I don't follow them as a way of life.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  If we nonbelievers were delusional like you, then I'm sure we would get it. You should start referring to us as nondelusional instead of nonbelievers, because thats the truth of the matter.
  
  Common Sense?! Brenda, you are so funny!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Everyman thinks himself right in his own eyes.....call yourself what you'd like non delusional, nonbelievers, unenlightened, unaware, fearful, untaught, angry and in denial..... they all work for me.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is a good definition of a religionist, not someone who deals in truth or facts!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How are you Ernest....hope things are well with you and your family...
  
  What exactly is a religionist? It comes up as a misspelling when I type it....did you make that up?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Brenda, if you don't mind, I think it's time to put your prejudices on hold for a second.
  
  I see you have a problem with the understanding of the bible yourself....simply from your statement above. Symbolic? B.S. All scripture was written in a primitive religious metaphoric language. Please, there are no symbols or signs.
  
  Do realize you statement here is foolish/ignorance. Because, there are plenty of non-believers who WERE believers, but self-realized the truth, just as Jesus did. Religion's "GOD" concept is false.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Cags,
  
  You know that these so called ex-believers never had a heart conviction. They were just trying to intellectualize the innate awareness that there exists something beyond there physical beings.
  
  So, these ex-believers do not count as believers.....ever. Let's call them explorers. Oh and as far as self-realization is concerned, let's just say that they got tired of searching for the truth and settled on the next best thing....their personal understanding of right and wrong..... Something like Ophra
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What a pile of bulldust! I am an ex religionist, and can tell you your blindness was shared by me. I decided to learn more, studied in depth, so deeply I studied my way right out the other end of it!
  There are quite a few here on hubpages with the same experience.
  The bible is a mistranslation of a mistranslation of a pack of controlling lies written by a few sick old woman haters.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you guys always think that we believers have not studied beyond the scriptures....You make me think that you doubt our ability to test the validity of our faith....Studying extensively outside of doctrine is exactly why I am an ardent Christian.....
  
  Just because someone has not arrived at the same solution does not mean that they have not studied.....
  
  What ever the transcribers of the Bible were, whatever their politics or cultural beliefs were, the facts of Jesus and God cannot be sullied....They should not be made the issue because people were limited in their understanding......
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  North, south, east amd west.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yup.
  See here a man with common sense as well as Spiritual sense.
  Good combination, Sir Dent.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Corners of a sphere? How many scientists were tortured to death by Christians for pointing out this absurdity?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Let's not stop there, how many Christians were martyred in ancient Rome? How many are being killed this very day in Muslim nations. Villages are being ransacked, women and children raped, men murdered because they will not renounce Christianity.
  
  Come on man, if you want to see the truth, don't peep at it. Take a good look at it. There are no innocents in this thing. Everyone has done foolish and evil things in the name of God.....and......moving right along
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep christians are being hacked to death in Africa this week.
  
  Why? Because about a month ago they hacked the muslims to death!
  Religion follows the religious tomes which teach hate and intolerance.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I guess they are operating in "an eye for an eye"....I don't know, it is wrong no matter who is killing who.....the point is that death in the name of religion does not or should not negate religion.
  
  What are you going to do, wiped our nations because they have gone to war with other nations and innocents have been unjustifiably killed? We would not be here, none of us if we did this....it is the same principle with religions.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda,
  
  Way to Go!!! , ,
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ron, you wrote, "The millions of interpretations of "true" Christianity can't all be true.
  
  You are so right, the point of agreement in Christianity is that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was born without sin, that He came to pay the price for our separation from God which was caused by the first man (Adam), that He, (Jesus), died on a cross bearing the sin of the world, He descended into the depths of Hell and suffered our punishment for three days and three nights, that He rose from the dead with all power in His hand, and that He is coming again.
  
  And, that if you receive Him as your personal Lord and Savior, you have everlasting life.
  
  The rest of it is what it is........
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that what the wars have been fought over?
  
  And you might want to do a little research because not all you Kristians believe the Jeebus was the Sun God.
  
  Dear me - still - you don't actually have to back anything up do you? And the old "they were not real Christians" getout means it doesn't really matter what the history books teach us about your beliefs does it?
  
  Talk about willful ignorance. Will you never learn? Or will you guys be spreading this war mongering nonsense until you Kause the final Konflikt?
  
  @mdawson - good for you for asking the question.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark,
  
  (I hope your family is well-good to hear from you)
  
  Say what you will, a conviction of the heart creates a life long belief.
  
  By definition, a Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
  
  History books and their accounts do matter and must be considered from the perspective of the writer.
  
  We didn't start the first conflict (Satan and the angels) and we won't start the last conflict - but we will win it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But you are Kausing this Konflikt.
  
  Very well done - I am sure that is what the Gospels are all about - Kausing Konflikt.
  
  At least that is what the history books teach us.
  
  Still - not to worry - you are not responsible in any way are you?
  
  Kristians Kausing Konflict
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What can you prove from the bible? Anything?
  
  So then, every single word in the bible is the word of god? Every word? You believe every word to be true?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Every Word is inspired by the Holy Spirit....
  
  God interacted with humans in the Old Testament and Jesus interacted with humans in the New Testament.
  
  The stuff that God and Jesus said is what they said. True Statements
  The stuff that Moses and Matthew said is what they said. Truly Stated
  
  God didn't make anyone say what they said, but He also didn't change what they said. The bible shows us various human personalities as they encounter God. It reflects their shortcomings and failures, their arrogance and successes all within the context of God's love for all.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And, no one ever saw god gain...
  
  Sorry, but if you believe the rantings of those who were steeped in myth and superstition, those who ran from lightning and thunder because they believed it to be angry gods, then you really need to take a good hard look at yourself and start thinking for a change.
  
  That is merely your unfounded belief, how do you know such things as fact? You don't.
  
  Your interpretation of scriptures is as valid and invalid as any other. Many believers might disagree with you.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's why we are so easily tricked. Faith is not a good way to measure the veracity of anything. In fact it's quite foolish. BTW, the bible is not the devine word of God, it is a mere collection of books written by people neither you are I know, that are long dead.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  By your logic, nothing you say will matter after you are gone either...so, what is the point this discussion?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or realizing he in fact doesn't really have a grasp on Jesus' life and his teachings, simply because the Christian religious philosophy is 100% faith in a higher power. Common-sense says "that's false" and can become a detriment to one's existence.
  Interesting that you actually say that, because when SCIENCE DEBUNKED the "GOD" concept and the basis for Christianity, in the 1970's, it was discredited by the Roman Catholic Church, by attacking only two science, claiming that two specific sciences weren't established enough. However, 40 years later, those two science fields are now full accredited and considered reliable.
  
  Therefore, leads to one conclusion- There is no god. Especially, where the Christianity religious philosophy goes.
  The bible is a book written by man. You give a power of B.S. when you label a divine word of God.
  
  Christianity's philosophy forces one to go against their own natural existence, so as to sacrifice their life for a hopes of a better life than what they have now? This is absurd, because you have to live this life, and should there be an after-life, common-sense says, you'll lose your human consciousness and when that happens.....you'll never know whether or not you are even alive. When dead, your human consciousness ends. When that happens, you will never again KNOW whether or not you live.
  
  So, please spare the dribble. As for Jesus being fact or fiction. Ancient World History will show that Jesus was in fact a person. He was born, by human parents. His teachings were against the religious church, god-kings, oracles and mystics, the educated elite of that time. Jesus, in fact, despised those who promoted religion's FAKE GOD as an idol of worship.
  
  He specifically told his followers to NOT look to religion, because it's "GOD" was indeed false. How special is that the religious leaders of his time, had him executed for no crime.
  
  To understand that- the religious establishment of educated elite, knew Jesus wasn't teaching religion and saw him as a threat to their usurped power and wealth, because he somehow knew that the religion's "GOD" concept was a hoax.
  
  Please remember, SIN is a religious term. It's made to make you feel insecure and worthless, when the actual opposite is true.
  
  That's my take on it.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not very subtle is it? Don't ask questions. Your faith is weak. You're not worthy to be a christian..
  
  Ugh.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Pandora....
  
  Ask as many questions as you like....you may not agree with the answers, but you are never prohibited from asking the questions.
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Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago
Amen Lisa.
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jeanc1121posted 15 years ago
Yes, Jesus existed. Take a university course on the New Testament or read something about the Historical Jesus. What you will discover is that many of the things written about Jesus were written many years after His death. You'll find also that people who've made serious study of the New testament agree that not all of the bible was literal.
The gospels were a combination of historical memory and metaphorical narrative. The narratives were meant as teaching tools much the way Jesus himself taught in parables. What's important is to discuss what these narratives mean- what they teach.

Read Marcus Borg - JESUS - Uncovering the Life, Teachings and Relevance of a Religious Revolutionary. It's fascinating and great food for thought.
Jean
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You can believe, but there's no proof. In fact at that time more than 20 jesus were crucified. So which was the son of God ? Was there a son of God ?
  I don't think so.
  
  Today there are a lot of Swamis, Masters, Enlightened ones,Yoguis, western and eastern style. Are they really what they preach ? I doubt it.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  How many of them deserved to die by crucifiction? How many did not deserve?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't there, so who knows ! LOL
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I figured since you knew about so many other Jesuses that you would at least know enough history on them to give me an exp-lanation.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  At that time crucifixions were common, so there's not much data about them.
  And long ago nobody had ID's LOL
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Jesus deserved it, by the jewish and roman point of view. He was a rioter.
  ( if we have to believe in the bible )
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Romans didn't want to do it. Only the pharisees and Caiaphas the High priest wanted to be rid of Jesus. They fabricated stories to tell against Him. Pilate wanted to let Him go.
  
  So then tell me why would He not defend Himself when accused?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  First of all, the Romans wanted him crucified as much as the Hebrews, but they left them to deal with that.
  
  I wasn't in the trial, so I don't know. Maybe his case was undefensible.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So then maybe He was exactly who He said he was.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ib said he was a rioter. That doesn't mean he was God's son. Before him lots of beings claimed the same. Krishna, Mithra, Quetzalcoatl, to name a few .Were they the son of God as well ?
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How many of them proved it? Stories are easily fabricated. They are also easily proven false unless they are true.
  
  Mithra was born of a rock before man was created, but yet two shepherds helped him to be born?
  
  Horus was born of a virgin who actually had sex many different times?
  
  No idea about Krishna just yet but if I searched I am sure I would find the right info.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just like Jesus. Myths to base you life on.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know for a fact that Jesus is a myth?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can't be 100 % sure. Maybe he was a real man. What I totaly doubt is that he's the son of God.
  Because I don't believe in God
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand that you don't believe in God. I am not usre what to say here at this time so I will apologize for forcing my beliefs down your throat and maybe post somehting else later on.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You can force your beliefs down my throat. I'm not going to swallow
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Greek Oneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If I only had a quarter each time I heard the last part of that sentence
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or said it.
  
  I mean...you are Greek right?
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  And your God created the earth before the sun. Imagine that! No inconsistencies in the bible? Not only was Jesus not the son of God, but this glaring inconsistency with the natural laws is also proof that, at least, YOUR foolish God doesn't exist either. So...no god, no son of god.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So in your own mind if God was real He would be bound by natural laws?
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Does anyone else in this forum, other than SirDent, believe the earth was created before the sun?
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The question I asked you was one that reuires a simple answer. Yes or now would suffice. of course maybe that is way too simple for you to do. Like so many others, many words are said when only one is required.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  To answer your question: How can anything that exist not be bound by physical law? If we just make up things we can attribute an infinite amount of traits. There was a fairytale once that told how a girl spun straw in to gold. You should believe that too.
  
  If there was a God I don't think you would have a clue to what it really would be. Your Bronze Age interpretation of God is a mental disorder.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A little over the top, no?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  If God is bound by natural laws, then God is not God. The rest that you quoted is crap and means nothing.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  hmm, i believe so.
  the information in genesis suggests it strongly.
  
  1. earth, dark, no form.
  2. and Elohim said, let there by light.
  3. evening, morning on the first day.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  THANK YOU
  
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep.....But that does not mean that there was not light before the sun.
  Heaven, the place of God's dwelling existed prior to the earth, the sun
  the moon and everythings else. Revelations tells us that in the New
  Jerusalem, the "lamb will be the light".
  
  So, it is safe to assume if Jesus is the Lamb of God, and that He
  preexisted creation as described in the bible, that He was the light
  which was before the creation of the sun. This would make it plausible
  that the earth had no need for the sun until such time as the sun was
  created. Selah
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I hope that the next generation will not listen to your profoundly inaccurate account of reality. Your views are anchored firmly in the Dark Ages, while thinking that you have what it takes to debate this issue. Pure nonsense!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, pure nonsense is right.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Many have already tried to find evidence to support the existence of Jesus and failed.
  
  Did it not occur to you that since all the information on Jesus was written many years after his death, his existence was most likely mythical?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nope....simply because anyone who has as much controversy surrounding them as Jesus does has to have existed in the physical.
  
  People either love Jesus or they hate Jesus....and, it's not getting any less controversial as time goes by.....
  
  I love Him
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You love a guy who may not have even existed? You love a 2000 year old dead guy? which is it?
  Religion is simply a sub-conscious response to fear of death. Testable. Provable.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your reasoning fails as one can extend it to other mythical beings and see that it is false.
  
  No, people either blindly follow Christianity or they do not.
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Kathryn LJposted 15 years ago
Well, what does he come under in the Public library?
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jeanc1121posted 15 years ago
what's significant is that a sufficient number of people were so impressed with Jesus that they met secretly (out of fear of the Romans) and continued to spread His very positive message from Israel where He lived and preached to neighboring countries and peoples. The difficulties with religion are man made not God made.
Jesus message was love God, Love one another, share with the poor, visit the sick and the imprisoned, comfort the sorrowful, stand up for justice. Do all you can to make the world a better place. Deviations from this message in word or action are human failings not failings of Jesus.

Unless you have a problem with His message (or the message attributed to Him) why waste time arguing about His existence? Belief in Him and adherence to His lessons can only result in a better world.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is the crux of the entire Christian machine, hence there is a great deal at stake in this argument. The very foundations of that institute would crumble.
  
  Unfortunately, that hasn't been the track record of Christianity or any of it's affiliate corporations.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What are you talking about Q. What institute?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jeanc1121,
  
  You said it!!!!!
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MikeNVposted 15 years ago
While I could be wrong (Wouldn't be the first time although my track record is pretty good) that the New Testament is written by people who are talking about Jesus but never actually met him. So it's a story telling version.

I've watched my share of documentaries and taken a number of religion education classes in College and while most stories of Jesus are similar they are never always the same.

The concrete evidence you seek isn't really there. The place Jesus was born for example isn't concrete.

Then you have to factor in things like translation from one language to another... never 100% accurate.

Now people also do not consider the "Dark Ages" and who was the care taker for the current versions of the Bible for which there are many.

The Bible wasn't written on paper... the printing press came along centuries later... about 1440.

It's all fascinating. Look before Jesus and you have similar stories... then go back and look at Sumerian Culture.

Factor in Dinosaurs and Physics... and what you end up with is a choice you have to make. That is the basis of "faith". You CHOOSE to believe or not believe.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Belief is a choice.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Fiction.
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habeeposted 15 years ago
WHY do we always have to argue about religion? WHY do you posters care what others believe or don't believe? If I want to believe in leprechauns, it's my right to do so! If I want to believe in absolutely nothing, that's my right, as well.

One cannot prove the existence of God anymore than one can disprove it. Can't we just leave it at that? I believe in God because of faith, not because of any proof. That's the whole point. If you don't want to believe, or if you prefer to believe in flying purple dragons, that's fine by me. It's your life!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is the point.....people cannot let it go because it is so very real and such a huge part of their lives...I think people are shaking the tree to see if the leaves fall of before they commit to belief of any kind and, I also think that believers are so grateful for the change in their lives that they refuse to have someone spit on their experience.
  
  I also think that both sides are sold out to their beliefs and we are warring in an effort to convince those who are on the fence that "our side is the right side".
  
  ps...there is a purple dragon who lives under the sink in my classroom.....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No sweetie pie - people are sick and tired of people like you dismissing everything they say as garbage and jamming their ridiculous hate filled beliefs into every where.
  
  You cannot have me murdered for taking a contrary position any more and I am free to voice my opinion.
  
  I am impressed with the ill will you seem determined to generate though - you have convinced me you are a real christian. Think if you carried on being this aggressive eventually you might provoke some one into conflict with you?
  
  I am sure jesus would be very proud.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because the beliefs of believers are crammed down our throats and we are forced to respect those beliefs as if they were a reality. There is also the problem of evangelism.
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Bucks hereposted 15 years ago
Jesus Christ is pure fact Rome recorded it. Why would anyone want to doubt that he is real. Rather say Allah is a joke, Mohammud is a Kaffour Buddha sucks his thumb, Krishna ans Shiva are pervese. None of them did anything for humanity. And did they exist or are they figments of imagination like Greek Gods etc.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Buck here, Roman records of the period provide very little evidence that there was a Jew called Jesus. Josephus, a Jewish historian who worked for Rome and wrote a history of his own people, does mention Jesus and also the early Christians. I suppose you could argue that the Josephus account is a Roman account in respect of who was employing Josephus.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
Can you provide an exact instance where these beliefs are, in fact, 'crammed' down your throat?
Who is 'forcing' you to accept their beliefs? And why are you subjecting yourself to such cramming or forcing? No offense, Q, but I know a handful of sadists & masochists who would wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.

Furthermore, how exactly is tel-evangelism affecting you? Simply change the channel or tell you cable company to remove TBN from your list.

It is really that simple.

Now, to flip the script. There is some cramming & forcing going on. It is the educational system. It is forcing children to learn information that is not solid or completely proven without bias.

The second is capitalism, economics. Forcing people to be slaves to the 'almighty dollar' or end up homeless, hungry, starving children in the back alley's of the planet.

Let's keep things in perspective, man.
It sounds as if your war and wound with religion is well, self inflicted.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is truly hilarious coming from you. I damn near blew coffee through my nose reading that.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As why it was said precisely to you.
  enjoy your coffee
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awareposted 15 years ago
both
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Rod Marsdenposted 15 years ago
There is some physical evidence that the story of Jesus does have some truth to it. We do know now for a fact that Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea around the time when Jesus was crucified. There is a road side stone from the period with his name on it. this is evidence independent of the bible. We also know that Jews were crucified at the time of Jesus and that the way they were crucified is very close to biblical accounts. I believe it was in the 1960s that the bones of crucified Jews from the period were unearthed in their stone coffins. There was evidence on one of the rib bones of a crucified man that the use of a spear plus the breaking of the legs was something Roman solders did to hasten on death. It wasn't always done because the idea was to have them suffer a long time as a warning to others but it could be done and in one instance it was done. There is a Jewish historian writing around the time of Jesus who actually mentions Jesus and the early Christians. This again is independent of the bible.

All of this is still very sketchy. Jesus would have been an excellent name for a savior because I believe that the name actually means God Saves.

It is true that Jesus' biographers never actually met Jesus. Certainly if he existed he would have been a most holy Jew and it is doubtful he would have thought of himself as divine. There are stories in the earliest gospels that ring true for a charismatic preacher. The fact that he could perform no miracles where he grew up and people actually knew him makes me think he was real because it reads as true.
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paarsurreyposted 15 years ago
Hi friends

Jesus was a fact but "Christianity" is a fiction created by Paul.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You just keep trying very hard to start a war, Mr. Peaceful.
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paarsurreyposted 15 years ago
Hi friends

May be one likes to read the book "Christianity: A Journey from Facts to Fiction" by Mirza Tahir Ahmad:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/ch … index.html

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
reply report

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