Is Occultism a distortion of Mysticism and True Spirituality?

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   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   Let me start with definitions.
   
   Occultism is originally the pursuit of knowledge by delving into mystery to uncover the "truth". In recent years, it has become knowledge of the paranormal as opposed to knowledge based on science.
   
   My thesis:
   
   Many people nowadays use Mystical Knowledge to manifest their desires or foretell the future. Such practices such as Astrology, Crystal Gazing, potions derived from mystical diagrams such as the Kabbalah actually buries a practitioner into deeper mystery.  A person who dives in to mystery, to darkness and does not rise up to mundane knowledge, more specifically applicable knowledge drowns in the false power. He puts himself in danger of being lost in the symbols, not seeing that it has a counterpart in the physical world.
   
   Mysticism was not meant to be hidden, it was meant reveal the subtle energies that influence the mundane. It is revealing a natural order that can be accessed and promoting an acceptance of the pulse of life, its mysteries and revealations. It is to empower EVERYBODY to be creators of their destiny through transcendance.  We learn to bring it down to daily life and enrich it.
   
   By remaining occult or practicing Magick to manipulate ends and outcomes, you in fact perpetuate and propagate superstition and ignorance because you want to control results through paranormal means. You get stuck in darkness and power versus light and transcendence.
   
   I however want to be educated on why people choose to practice occult. There are many valid reasons why a person would choose this. I would like to know what they are.

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      Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Doesn't everybody do things to influence ends and outcomes?
      
      Is that Majick?

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         ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Magick practitioners do things to enhance their chances unnaturally through chanting, use of crystals to attract certain things for certain ends. Instead of wooing a girl, they concoct a potion to make that fall for them. Instead of deciding on the best course of action, they check their horoscopes and the position of the stars.
         
         And no, only if you use things that like spells, tarot cards and the like. I'm talking about Occult.

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      mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Perhaps even if "occult" has come to be associated with the paranormal, it isn't about "altering" outcomes for many people.
      
      Do you think a large percentage of people, too, might be involved in the occult under the older meaning - ie: arcane, hidden knowledge?
      
      I know a lot of people who go to "occult" shops but who are purchasing items there for spiritual things.
      
      Good topic - and I'm still considering many things about your original post.

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      AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The word "occult" originally meant "unknown" or "hidden." Contemporary science evolved from the study of unknown phenomena, by people who hoped to gain a working knowledge of those things which then seemed mysterious.  Today's occult mystery is tomorrow's everyday science.
      
      
      
      It is the nature of all fields of research that one who studies it learns more about it, and in doing so gains more insight into that subject.
      
      
      
      Theories based on philosophy alone, and which are divorced from practicality, have little value - like person who's too busy being saintly to cook dinner, and who therefore starves to death.
      
      
      
      The ancient Mystery Schools always excluded the general public. Their teachings were only revealed to those initiates considered worthy to make intelligent practical use of them.
      
      
      
      The purpose of any act is to effect a specific result. If you pull on a jumper with the intention of warming up, this effect is not a superstitious belief but something proven by experience.  A similar principle applies to a magical rite.

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   Beelzedadposted 14 years ago

   Bowling is boring? 

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      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      not at all, I love bowling. (I really need to get to why you like this picture to represent you, it intrigues me.)

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   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   If you check your horoscope daily, does that make you dim?

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   Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago

   Many of the things you mentioned would have no influence on anything except the practitioner.
   
   Concocting a love potion will never work but doing things to yourself to make you more attractive to the person of your fancy can and will work.

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      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      some potions and stuff like that do work. Magick is the father of alchemy and then chemistry. But my point is, really?
      
      why not just take a bath and be cordial, right?

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5. 68

   Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago

   I think that many divination tools help the user gain information from their subconcious.
   
   Symbolism can be a very powerful tool.
   
   
   Even the ritual of spell casting actually only has an effect on the subconcious of the person or people involved in casting the spell.

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      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, but so does meditation. Meditation does not "claim" to achieve affect outcome through ritual.  It is really to observe your mind and be in that space in your head that allows you to reprogram your subconscious.
      
      Magick is dangerous because it becomes superstitious and you fail to see that it to affect outcome, you have to change action and thought.

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         Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         
         This is the only way that Majick can work.

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            ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I agree, it's power is in the mystery. Like placebos. It does not expand understanding and awareness.

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               ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It is focusing on withholding light in order to have POWER.

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   hmm, the practice of self chemistry / alchemy aka divination is indeed symbol based. My aunt studied gylph and symbols for many years at the Smith and more recently Dan Brown 'illuminated' the practice in fiction -using light/dark partitions and expressions to find the keys.
   
   Celi, I know you know this, but it is fascinating.
   From anything I know of divination it seems to stem from the optic perception of the non optic universe -those parts of light unseen. As recent as yesterday, I noted the use of planets and how fractal geometry is used by such to determine or plan out the self life or influence other lives. I often wonder how or why light projecting or reflecting off them can do such a thing or symbols viewed in tea cups, pools of water, mirrors, compressed compounds turned gemstones, and the like.
   
   Perhaps it the human condition that they need to 'see' or 'feel' those parameters of light, use those symbols. Maybe in doing so, believe that light bends to them -for their good or others- and that they can unite with light by those measures.
   
   The effects of it are without a doubt mystifying. And yes, very dangerous, because -as we have seen throughout the ages- causes both sides of the Ism to manifest terrible things.
   
   To add my usual sarcasm -occult is like trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Only there's no hat and the rabbit is late for a very important tea party date with the Mad Hatter.

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   By all points, this is the universal view of Quality -the uniting of quantum with ritual practice. A new age of alchemy. I am not surprised. The use of divination has shrouded people since the dawn of time. Way back "in the day", recall Moses being fined for carrying out a divination practice -that kept him from entering the PL.
   
   But the occult is not only in potion making and moon dances. It is very much alive and well in the conscious quest for knowledge (which they already have). Same as using 'natural' objects to evoke or invoke 'supernatural' events. Because both are natural when viewed from a pure perspective.
   
   Now Quantum says we can bend the light with our minds, instead of using the 'four elements'. They have taken divination to a whole new level.

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      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I know right, I was thinking that about Moses and why tapping the rock for water twice was such a big crime. Water always doubles as consciousness in biblical terms.
      
      Occult is re-mystifying that which is already revealed, withholding knowledge so certain people can have power over the others. Hence sorcery was forbidden. Sometimes, occult symbols can deliver knowledge before its time. But because of the nature of the occult, the knowledge goes back to mystery until it finds a place, a mundane role in our lives.

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   Well, not to pick on one particle of the Ism, but from my reading, Mormonism began with J Smith's seeing stone and Crowley's diviners rod -which is said to compare to Moses/Aaron's rod and the basis by which the things 'revealed' to them were godsend.
   
   i am missing some stuff b`tween but it is the general gist.
   
   Indeed, this mundane -yet highly emphasised- practice can be applied to anything from the alters of Aver to scientific experiments on stems cells, etc.

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      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      yeah, totally. mysticism and science do not have to be at war, if only the occultists would quit playing Jesus.
      
      Commercial Psychics and Tarot readers sometimes rob people of the ability to determine their own fate.
      
      It is in a way, what religious authorities are doing. But Occultism is dangerous because its mysterious nature imprints on a person and becomes like a hypnotic command.

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         Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         absolutely.
         anything humans put in front of their faces or eat/ satisfy the craving, definitely is hypnotic. It is a 'magical' illusion/illumination. Ask any heroin addict.
         
         In the old days it was incense temples and methodical cantor voices, summoning the spirits; today it is lady gaga (who, don't laugh too hard, I just heard for the first time like a month ago).
         
         True, about them both. Which i see they are coming together and will no doubt nullify each other giving way to either a full throttle mystic world or grace filled one. Maybe both.

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   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   I had a friend, a very powerful shaman who was asked by a tribe to interface with their gods. 
   
   The gods favored him they said. I told him, you give these gods attention and they become more powerful. It is the people who use them who give power to them.
   
   So that said, is it necessary to project empowerment to occult things, when it truth this power is accessible to everyone anyway.
   
   consciousness is everywhere. You can ask a plant for answers and your mind will churn out a good one. Was it from the plant?

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      Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      interesting take.
      certainly the plant will 'answer' because the human consciousness of that plant, the question and the answer already are embedded in he/she.
      
      The prescribed occult view from the far reaching classic to romantic (pendulum shift) proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
      Feeding frenzy for both sides continues to manipulate power, authority or the gotcha effect. Take two examples (knowing i am going to get flack for this):
      
      Name It, Claim It - romantic view
      Medication - classic view
      
      Two very powerful expressions of the occult views and tools.
      Both of these archetype deities are given global influence and power over the masses.
      
      Indeed it is openly available to everyone who looks for it from a pure perspective. Might explain why 99.9 don't have it.
      
      The 12 Gate theory works the same...

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      AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Have you actually verified for yourself that these 'gods' become more powerful through peoples' attention?  If you gaze at a mountain, does it grow higher? 
      
      Be wary of trying to force evidence to fit your beliefs and assumptions.
      
      
      
      X-rays, radio waves, electricity etc., are also everywhere, but the right machines (channels) are needed for us to make use of them.  For the student of the occult, the main machine (channel) is their own mind and body - though some people make use of tools/ritual implements to help focus their mind.
      
      
      
      Have you verified this to be true?  I doubt that a cabbage could have much to say about the stock exchange. 
      
      Seriously, many vehicles could be used for attunement to a person's own higher self (to borrow a phrase from Gurdjieff.)  If plants are your thing, fine.  Many Druids use nature in this way, for example.  But there are many other routes to that end too.

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