Yesterday I was watching CNN and I see that the makers of South Park got a death threat from some radical islamic extremist threatening to do to them what they did to some guy who make a documentary what goes on in 'islam' and so the guy ends up cut throat and all.
Now it seems obvious that our 1st amendment rights down exactly translate throughout the world and even some of our rights are being restricted on accounts of being culturally respectful to other countries. Thus the episode of South Park depicting Mohammad as a teddy bear, they did so because they got censored.
The radical Islamic extremist didn't like that either and issued their 'warning'.
Now, all things considered and being genuinely concerned with the ridiculousness of such things, don't you think it would be wise to be very careful about what you say to or about Islam because they pretty much don't care about whether or not something is said to be a joke or if you genuinely feel a certain way, they can find you through the internet by ip address alone and you never know these days what might happen to you.
Would this be enough to get some of you folks to STFU or would you rather get your throat slashed because you are allowed to say whatever you want?
What do you think?
The radical Islamic extremist is really not much different than the ordinary Muslim, as far as the belief is concerned. Muslims would like to see anyone dead who is blasphemous towards Islam, they just won't be the ones to raise the blade, but they will wholeheartedly agree and do absolutely nothing to stop it.
The war on terrorism (Bush called it the war on "terror"....his personality and way of saying things was quite endearing to me, really) will never be won if Americans are scared like you suggest.
Why should an American allow Islam or its proponents (whether outside or inside this country) strike so much fear into our hearts that we "shut up" as you so uneloquently put it?
You seem to be on the side of urging citizens to actually shut up and be scared of exercising their free speech. At least that's how your post comes across.......correct me if I'm wrong.
I purposely posted the Mohammad cartoon from that dutch guy. I refuse to change my behaviour due to threats and intimidation.
Quite right. especially hiding behind a naked girl avatar and fake user name.
How very, very brave you are. LOLOL
So even if it means that my kids would get hurt in the process, you simply wont shut up because it's better to defend your right to speak then it is to defend others rights to live.
Is that 'gist' of it?
I don't know what your kids have to do with what I do. Certainly I wouldn't purposely expose others to danger on my account.
That is the definition of terrorist. By threatening to harm your children they control what you say and do.
I refuse to accept responsibility for someone else's bad behavior.
(I'm not the one you want on your side when the bad guy points the gun at your head and says "Give me the keys to the nuclear bomb or Sandy gets it".
At that point I assume anybody who would point the gun at your head is a liar and will kill you whether he gets what he wants or not. Mofo don't get the keys to the nuke. Sorry Sandy, I love you but ...)
Bottom line is bad guys lie. People who threaten kids are bad guys. If I shut up, that DOES NOT mean they won't kill your kid anyway. If they are inclined to kill your kid, they will find some other excuse besides what I say or don't say.
Really because I would do everything I possibly could to save you and go down trying instead of saying 'go ahead take her' but you still aren't getting the keys. If I got killed in the process then I went down trying to save everyone and the sacrifice becomes myself.
But I certainly wouldn't start calling him an asshole or anything like that just to piss him off even more. That doesn't buy me a lot of time to save your life. lol
Nah, most likely I'd tell him I didn't care about you while my side kick that he didn't know about was sneaking through the air ducts to ambush him. Then after you were rescued I'd have to convince you that I was only saying that to save your life.
it doesn't matter what we think, what matters is how do we eliminate the islamic faith, which is a crime against humanity no matter what anyone wants to believe. there is a difference with what the truth is and what these muslims wants to believe. the fact that they use scare tactics to get what they want no matter how ridiculously stupid it is, is enough to know that the world will be a better place without it. really, it's bad enough that they beat their 6 year old wives now they want to kill you for making sense? come on.
The point is that this is an American tv show, and in America we have freedom of speech, as well as freedom of religion. Southpark is an equal opportunity offender. Trey and Matt made Buddha a coke-head and Jesus a internet porn freak. Absolutely nothing was said, in this episode, to disparage Muhammad. But, mention of his name was enough to cause outrage. If a person is true to their own faith, it doesn't matter what other people think. It was just a joke. It cracks me up that Muhammad was the only religious icon that wasn't ripped on. I thought the show was great, by the way. I laughed my ass off.
Well I've already had my throat slashed. So that doesn't scare me!
But OT, no matter what your opinion, someone will always disagree to an extreme extent. So the question is whether you would die for what you believe or is it JUST an opinion. Millions of people throughout history have died for their beliefs.
Knowing that your neighbors don't or might not agree with what you believe, do you still believe it would be worth it to also put your neighbors at risk because of what 'you' believe.
This question is for both sides of the coin tail. Is it fair that some muslim extremist put their fellow countrymen at risk for what they believe and vise versa?
I am not a fan of South Park, and I do not think it is a good idea to make fun of other people's religions...
However, I am less a fan of the kind of people who think it's cool to run around threatening to cut people's throats. People who do such things are NOT limited to Muslim or Islamic groups. People who do such things should be considered terrorists, as they are attempting to use fear to coerce people into doing what they want them to do.
I may not agree with what the South Park guys have to say, but I would defend to the death their right to say it, as some other famous person once said. ESPECIALLY in the face of terrorists (regardless of their religious persuasion) who want to threaten people.
Threats like that just make the rebellious part in me want to root for the perverted South Park folks.
NEVER give in to fear or the demands of people who think such tactics are necessary.
I believe in free speech. With free speech comes it's perks AND penalties of saying what you need to say.
This is Not the first Death Threat that those South Parkers have had or created!!
It wasn't that long ago that they got some really shitty stuff thrown at them, when they first published the song about Mr Hanky!
I have to agree with Origin here...if free speech wasn't legal, they would have imprisoned Jay Lenno years ago. LOL
free speech used to have accountability and manners attached to it, just like any law or law concept.
Groups like the ACLU and rebellious people kept chipping away at it and pushing the envelope farther and farther, which is why we now have the current mess of controversy; a strawman disguised as "interpretation" was shoved in front of America, while behind the scenes the workings of immorality gained entrance into mainstream American life.
I believe in free speech too. I actually don't see how anyone or anything would have ever thunk it to say, 'you cannot say that'. The very idea is ridiculous however, the question I am asking is about respect for not just your other American neighbors who don't really want to get blown up because their neighbor is a self righteous loud mouth and the people they offend love to blow people up, including themselves.
So, if I don't like it when a bunch of my American neighbors are running off at their mouths because their idea of free speech also includes hate speech without actually threatening a persons life, then I would also have the right to say STFU!
I think people who are like, "I don't fear being blown up and if I die for my beliefs then yeah me, I am a martyr and I go heaven blah, blah, blah. Have no respect or consideration for the people next door who are like, um... excuse me...
Can I just live a peaceful life without wondering if the self righteous loud mouth next door is going to piss off the wrong person and the next thing I know I am going to be scarping my kids gust off the walls.
Still, some of you just don't give a darn what happens as long as everything serves your purpose and your god and what you believe. You all but forget and just don't care about people who don't see life that way.
People who do actually care about the life they live and would actually love to stay a while and it would be even better if people could step off your hight horses and think about what your doing instead of 'proving' that just because you can means that you should.
So then... despite my personal concerns, you all would still believe that it is better to say whatever you want and if in turn you get killed for it and take your neighbors down with you then it is okay. Right? That is the feeling that I am getting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing is this:
"I believe in free speech, but if what you have to say pisses off someone else - especially the kind of someone else who thinks it's okay to murder people - you need to shut up."
Is that the gist?
SO what I am hearing is. Because you believe in free speech and your speech pisses someone off enough to, gee I don't know, blow some innocent people up, then it is okay?
Is that what I am hearing. It doesn't matter if they are fully capable and probably will hurt you and the people around you but as long as you get a say then it doesn't matter right?
So even for you, correct me if I am wrong. You don't care about my rights to live but you do care about your write to speak, yes? Just as long as you get to say what you want to it doesn't matter who gets hurt because of it as long as you get to say what you want.
Forget respect right. Is that what you are saying?
You seem to have read an awful lot into what I asked. Look, I don't like South Park, and I don't like the way it presents its message. At the same time, I understand that on a certain level, the little f***ers are hilarious to some people. I think their cartoon is moronic. It does not send any kind of decent message to anyone, anywhere, and it should not be watched by anyone. I believe they even tell you that at the beginning of the show. So, I get where you're coming from on that front. However, other people like it, and it doesn't bother me
The existence of such a show raises questions about what we (in general) as consumers are interested in consuming.
At the same time - there's another side to the existence of South Park. And this is where the issue goes above the quality of the content. South Park is sort of...equal opportunity. They make fun of EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY. Across the board - God, Jesus, Satan, famous people, themselves, America, Canada, other countries, gay people, straight people, smart people, dumb people, kids, grown ups...I mean...every body. I understand it can be rude, but it's also really important to remember that people need to exist in an atmosphere where they can TALK about stuff...and even LAUGH about things...and not take everything SO seriously that they're willing to slit each others' throats over it.
If the people on South Park can talk about THAT stuff...can we talk with our kids about sex and drugs and terrorism? Maybe that sounds a little crazy. *shrugs*
I think South Park is silly; however, I do not think its creators are advocating "hate speech." I think they have taken a collection of people's worst, most degrading thoughts to the their extreme conclusion and animated them badly.
The result is a twisted parody of a children's show that is a reflection of today's culture on a certain level.
Anyway...all the rambling about South Park aside, I would hope that you would know that I would never wish (or intentionally create) harm for you or any neighbor or anything like that. I do believe people should know when to be quiet and when to say something effectively.
However, looking at someone and saying "Take your silly show off the air or I will kill you" is far too extreme a reaction to what the South Park people are or are not saying. If someone doesn't like South Park, they don't have to watch it. If someone REALLY doesn't like South Park, they can write a letter, organize a petition, write about HOW MUCH they HATE South Park and why. But no one needs to threaten people, and certainly no one needs to follow through with threats. And such behavior should never be tolerated.
I doubt you have anything to worry about, Sandra.
You stand up for nothing.
Radicals only get mad at people who actually stand up for something.
I think you're probably safe in your cozy little world.
If not, you could always go to ...some other country where there are no moral laws to fight for.
They may come for me but there better be hundreds of them, cause I will not go gently into that good nite!
I don't think that "They" are going blow something up cause I said something on the Radio.
That might be the last straw??????? after about sixty years of us/U.S. having authority over them ?????
Don't matter much if we were fair or not!
They didn't like it! And was we "really" That fair ??
I vote for SURE we were , , , ? ..!!!!!!!! ??
I have to echo the sentiment that the sorts of psychopaths who blow up civilians because someone offended them are the sorts of psychopaths who blow up civilians anyway.
If anything bowing to that sort of threat puts you in greater danger. At a certain point if terrorism is getting results it's going to encourage further terrorism.
There are neighborhoods in my city where the color of your clothes could get you killed.
Red, Blue, Yellow, Black, any one of these colors could get you in trouble. Not wearing the colors will not make the problem go away.
I have been blessed in that position.
Choose to live out side of town as much as I can.
But the city keeps coming closer.
Of course but wearing the colors makes you an easy target.
True, but I could not live my life being always afraid of what another persons state of mind might be. I cannot be responsible for their actions only my own.
Would I openly taunt a person who was obviously psychopathic, No.
Nor would I change my actions out of fear of reprisals. That person may shoot me simply because he did not like the way I looked at him.
What has the higher chance of happening, dying in a car wreck or a angry muslim extremist blowing you up? So the car is scarier than the extremist?
Honestly, I don't know but do you want to take the chance?
If they aren't scared to die for God, i'm not scared to die for speaking against God.
Would I post my address and ask them to come blow me up? No, that would be supid. Will I humiliate them every chance I get for stating their ridiculous beliefs? Every chance I get.
Here in this part of the world there is no other option than "STFU" if you wish to survive. Colonies of islamic people force "quranic" crap on other religions & non-religious people. Free speech is one way street here. All i can say is that this is the most of dangerous religion active in 2010. This religion is like virus,much deadlier than zombie virus(It kills rational life slowly). Sorry but my experience makes me rant on islam like this.
Why am I meant to care about my neighbours? With the loud music they deserve what they get!
But OT, isn't this discussion slightly pushing the ridiculous?
I mean Sandy, if your whole life is lived being a people pleaser, you'll soon learn, you just can't please everyone - whether that includes your friends or some guy wearing a bomb!
And have you ever been in a life or death situation or felt like you were? You don't know how you'd react. What if by NOT saying something, you put yourself in such a situation, or worse, your neighbours or children.
I'm sorry but at the extreme I'm sure a child would like to know they didn't have a coward for a parent.
I have had death threats from zealot christians who have threatened to find me and kill me, I am waiting for the ones from the equally crazy muslim extremists next.
The thing is, there are psychopaths everywhere, but religionists are over represented!
Frankly if someone tried to kill me I would say the same as I do to anyone who makes threats.
"Don't miss, because I wont!"
lol That is similar to what my dad would say! He would say something like, "If you shoot, you better be sure it kills me."
Your dad's philosophy sounds alright to me!
As a kid I was bought up in the bush in a men's world, and when threatened I hit first, without any delay. I have a very long driveway and am an experienced hunter.
Anyone gunning for me would not get within my head shot range..... around 600 yards!
lol, my dad says I am the spunky one because I never took shite from anyone. But I think these days I am just so over it I would rather just have some peace and quite.
Don't get me wrong though. If someone actually came to my door with a gun to my head I wouldn't cower in fear. I am not sure if it is possible to not react.
Though in defense of my own post. I would rather just shut up antagonize a fight. I think the point was completely overlooked but whatever. I am over it.
It's like the Simpsons episode where Bart 'isn't' touching Lisa and then she gets so mad at him because he wont stop not touching her and then they start fighting as if no one could see that coming. lol
Can't cower in fear. Personally, I'm even okay with a premptive strike if the threats can be traced to someone. Got no problem sending some Seals or Rangers or CIA hitmen in there to do them. People open their mouths and start making threats like that, they deserve what they get. "Sorry Mr. Radical Douchebag, but we're not going to wait to see if you were serious." <stab>
If I was younger, less lazy, and had more backbone than I do, I would totally be a Seal or something.
The entertaining thing about this is - almost no one did any research. These "threats" came from an American Muslim group.
Remember the Mormon wars and all the other religious wars? Time for the Muslim immigrants to start flexing their muscles. It is happening here. 10% of the population seems to be critical mass and they feel it is about time their religion got equal airtime........... We even have a new law forbidding full Bhurkas being fought over in court.
Religion? Hmm hmm - look at what a belief in the invisible super being does to people......
They should know better than to mess with a banana zealot!
Is he off on the bananas again? There are NO bananas I tell you!
Bananas rooool! I still have many bananas, and have established beyond doubt that it is all about bananas. Why I myself is bananas!
TheGlassSpider has been awakened to the great banana! Oh for joy!
May the skins of a thousand bananas lay before your enemies and slide them in to a banana-less hell!
LMAO....infidels. We shall whip them with many banana skins.
Ooooooooooh!!! I love it with the banana skin whipping and all!
May the rotting flesh of ten thousand bananas fall on the houses of the infidels and bananasmite them all!
Well given your ideas about asparagus...I thought that might be right up your alley.
Plus, the bananas liked it.
Ah yes asparagus! When I was a little kid I thought it was called Sparrowsgrass!
Can you whip them with asparagus too? I live.... I learn!
I would gladly whip them with asparagus for you, Earnest
"Sparrowgrass" is a beautiful word, Earnest...may I borrow it if I have occasion sometime?
Fabulous *offers you a banana* May the mighty banana bless you and fulfill you, brother.
Thank you! Oooh I love bananas! ...... and spiders of course!
If people could just learn to read banana skins and listen carefully to spiders the world would be a perfect place.
Be careful, Earnest. 2,000 years from now they'll be saying that you said that I was a goddess who fed all the starving people of the forums with bananas.
I guess the secret's out, then...I'll do my best to be benevolent. But I have a mean streak.
LOL Well, what I consider a mean streak anyway; generally keep it down to grumbling and laughing and the occasional bit of thunder...I have yet to do any smiting. I'm a young god.
So much smiting needs to be done, so little time to do it, yes I can see the difficulty here.
I think we hijacked Sandra's thread, but she is a good sport.
Learn to Ignore these Satanic Fools ... there is no Religion that Teaches hatred ...
I am a Muslim, and I respect your Religion and your Concept and Belief in God.
Because it is not my business, as an ordinary Muslim, and a human, to sit in judgment over Divine matters.
I respect your belief to call me a Satanic fool, your belief that religion does not teach hatred and that fact you don't judge others.
Au contraire! Religion is about fear and hate. Read ALL of the book, not just the bits that agree with your ridiculous assertion.
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